SC

Why South Carolina Flipped On The Confederate Flag

CORPORATE, POLITICAL PRESSURE HELPED MOVE LEADERS … || By FITSNEWS || Early Monday morning, this website ran an item on how there was “zero appetite” amongst South Carolina’s GOP leadership to take down the Confederate flag in the aftermath of a horrific, racially motivated shooting in Charleston, S.C. And there wasn’t.  From…

CORPORATE, POLITICAL PRESSURE HELPED MOVE LEADERS …

|| By FITSNEWS || Early Monday morning, this website ran an item on how there was “zero appetite” amongst South Carolina’s GOP leadership to take down the Confederate flag in the aftermath of a horrific, racially motivated shooting in Charleston, S.C.

And there wasn’t.  From the governor’s office to the halls of power in the House and Senate, there seemed to be a decided “wait-and-see” attitude toward the flag.

But within hours, things changed …

Nikki Haley – a former flag supporter – announced she was holding a press conference later that day.  Shortly thereafter S.C. House and State Senate leaders – who only days earlier had told us the issue would likely be on hold until January – were frantically scrambling to get a compromise placed on their summer agenda.

So … what happened?

Easy: Money talked.

Sources close to Haley, S.C. Speaker of the House Jay Lucas and Senate president Hugh Leatherman have all confirmed to FITS that some of the Palmetto State’s biggest corporate citizens – recipients of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer-funded incentives – made their views on the controversial banner’s continued presence on the State House grounds crystal clear.

Their unified, unambiguous message?

“Take it down.”

Among the companies delivering this message?

Boeing.  BMW.  Michelin.  Volvo.

“It started up on Friday and was fully magnified by Monday morning,” a source familiar with the corporate campaign told FITS.

Another critical pressure point?  National “Republican” party leaders – who were (are) desperate to avoid (another) pitched battle over the flag in the midst of the quadrennial “First in the South” presidential primary election.  It wasn’t just GOP leaders pressuring Haley, either, it was 2016 “Republican” candidates – including Wisconsin governor Scott Walker (believed by many to be Haley’s 2016 favorite).

Walker was, incidentally, among the first to praise Haley for her decision to call on the flag to come down.

Haley’s allies dispute the contention that corporate pressure – or political pressure – played a role in her decision.

According to them, Haley made up her mind to call for the flag to come down shortly after news broke about The Last Rhodesian – the since-removed website of confessed “Holy City Massacre” perpetrator Dylann Storm Roof.

The site showed the 21-year-old gunman – who has admitted to killing nine black churchgoers in cold blood – posing with weapons, Confederate flags and other white supremacist symbols.

“That was the game-changer,” sources familiar with Haley’s decision told FITS.

Specifically, we’re told there is no truth to allegations that national “Republicans” were pressuring Haley – including threatening the state’s “First in the South” presidential primary status.

“I know for a fact that’s not true,” a senior GOP operative familiar with the situation told FITS.  “Reince (Priebus) was chomping at bit but Haley already had the wheels in motion.”

Obviously the removal of the flag from the grounds is not a done deal … although there seems to be sufficient momentum in both the S.C. House and State Senate to bring the banner down.  Also some lawmakers initially viewed as possible swing votes on the issue – like S.C. Rep. Kirkman Finlay – have actually been working behind the scenes to make sure the issue is addressed immediately (i.e. the course of action this website recommended from the beginning).

“A lot of people have been working very hard outside of the spotlight,” one GOP leader told FITS.  “And that work will pay off.”

Pic: Travis Bell Photography

***

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227 comments

vicupstate June 24, 2015 at 5:06 pm

What?! You mean this wasn’t driven purely by moral sensitivities? I am SHOCKED!!

SHOCKED I tell you.

Reply
vicupstate June 24, 2015 at 5:09 pm

The question is what, if any price will be paid politically. We won’t know that til next year. The GOP has always been willing to appeal to the most base instincts to create fear to drive the wing nuts to the polls. Will they finally pay a price for doing so?

I doubt it.

Reply
Rocky June 24, 2015 at 5:52 pm

No price Vic. A minority of vocal racists won’t impact anyone politically. A majority of silent non-racists could, however, hurt a few in the No category.

Reply
FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 5:53 pm

Road Apples. This whole flag thingy is being driven by “progressives” in media. (Present company excluded, of course.)

This diversionary distraction is all about taking the masses eyes off of the economic ball.

Tomorrow, the Supremes will kick Obama in the stones and queer the whole BummerCare deal. … But who cares as long as George Soros’ money is on the target.

Reply
tomstickler June 24, 2015 at 8:38 pm

The decision on King v. Burwell may or may not come down tomorrow, but let’s make it interesting.

My prediction is 6-3 in favor of the ACA. What’s yours?

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 5:09 pm

UH. Because they south finally realizes that EVERYBODY on earth knows its a racist flag? Because neo-nazis in Europe fly the confederate flag because their flag is illegal!
Because its the flag of slavery, suffering, human bondage, anti-Christian and a flag of a group that declared war on the USA.
The list goes on.

Reply
Comrade1917 June 24, 2015 at 5:25 pm

I believe South Carolina left the union. Lincoln ordered 75,000 troops to crush sessionists.

Go back to Massachusetts, comrade.

Reply
Comrade1917 June 24, 2015 at 5:28 pm

Secessionist looks better.

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 5:30 pm

You can’t secede from a country. It doesn’t work like that. The nations interests trump the state. National security and the like all trump states rights.
The south wanted their slaves to do the work for them. Just lazy white people with hookworm.

Reply
CNSYD June 24, 2015 at 6:01 pm

Tell that to Massachusetts who threatened secession on 4 separate occasions prior to 1860. Read the VA document that was ratified by them in order to agree to joining the Union. Read the Declaration where it speaks of why leaving an oppressive regime is necessary. Etc.

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 6:08 pm

By oppressive do you include slave owners?
It’s just a racist flag, pure and simple.

Squishy123 June 24, 2015 at 6:12 pm

Says the Black Panther, like anything you say or think is unbiased.

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 6:16 pm

Wow, you are far less than bright…

Squishy123 June 24, 2015 at 7:05 pm

So then tell me what your black paw print means.

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:04 pm

Of all the symbols used by the Black Panthers. A paw print has never been one of them. What does your profile image mean?????

Squishy123 June 25, 2015 at 3:29 pm

So what is it then?

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 3:49 pm

What the hell is your profile image? Get a life get a brain and get a clue.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 7:09 pm

Wow, you are far less than bright…

TBG will humbly defer to your obvious experience in such matters…

CNSYD June 24, 2015 at 6:32 pm

Not unexpectedly, you miss the point.

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:15 pm

No you miss the point because you are a racist. Anybody that defends that flag is a pseudo closeted racist, I say pseudo because we see it so clearly but you think you have us fooled. It’s no different than the na zi flag.

guest June 24, 2015 at 7:08 pm

Bill and Hillary loved that flag in Arkansas.Bill’s favorite golf course in Arkansas was NO BLACKS ALLOWED.

Bill has a new hobby now-Pedophile Island. Will end up sinking the brain injured lesbian.

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:01 pm

Have another drink…

CorruptionInColumbia June 24, 2015 at 6:43 pm

I believe the Founding Fathers intended that if the Union were to cease beingg nb the best interests of The People, The People would have the right to dissolve that union. I believe secession would also be an oprion, as such.

Reply
Mike at the Beach June 24, 2015 at 7:31 pm

They even wrote that down somewhere…where did I read that?…

Mark June 24, 2015 at 7:44 pm

You would be wrong. I think we settled that in 1865. The Union can only be dissolved by Constitutional Amendment. There is an Amendment process. Follow that and you can do anything, including dissolving the Union. Otherwise the Constitution is binding on the states, and extends Constitutional Rights to the people of each state. A state cannot unilaterally leave the Union, denying its people the protection of the Constitution.

Might makes right June 24, 2015 at 7:47 pm

” I think we settled that in 1865.”

I thought it was settled after Lincoln was assassinated.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:52 pm

it was settled when it became universal knowledge that governments derive “their just powers from the consent of the governed”

Might makes right June 24, 2015 at 10:27 pm

Now, now Mad Max. I like you, but when you started arguing for involuntary relationships vis a vis God’s relationship with man Biblically, suggesting it was an acceptable format for governance by men over men…well- you lost all moral high ground.

Try not to be a hypocrite, although if you insist I’ll still like you anyway most of the time. I’ll just point it out now and then.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:10 am

you started arguing for involuntary relationships vis a vis God’s relationship with man Biblically

———-
in an exchange with a dude named “bible thumper”

Might makes right June 25, 2015 at 12:02 pm

Are you saying you didn’t mean it?

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:05 pm

I’m saying that it is fair game to show that your opponent’s stated position supports your own.

Might makes right June 25, 2015 at 12:41 pm

You haven’t answered my question. Do you believe in the argument you made or not?

I don’t care what Bible Thumper’s viewpoint was/is on that topic, but I am curious about yours.

Might makes right June 26, 2015 at 8:59 am

Well, I’m going to assume that you do believe in involuntary relationships between people and by extension government since you opted not to answer.

euwe max June 26, 2015 at 11:01 am

Well, I’m going to assume that you do believe in involuntary relationships between people and by extension government since you opted not to answer.
——–
I answered, but I’ll answer again in a different way.

The use of force derives its just power from the consent of the governed. “The governed” is defined in the constitution as “the people” – whose reality, and will, is expressed by political representation of the majority.

You’ll have to amend the constitution to get rid of that.

Here are a couple of questions that follow that line –
How many members are in a suicide club?
In an anarchy club?

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 10:35 pm
euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:41 am

the threat of force derives its just power by the consent of the governed.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 7:48 pm

You would be wrong. I think we settled that in 1865.

*We* settled the Founding Father’s *intentions* in 1865?
Might want to rethink that one, chief.

Mark June 24, 2015 at 7:56 pm

No need to rethink it. I am confident that is the correct interpretation. There is nothing in the Constitution that addresses a state unilaterally leaving the Union. If a state can unilaterally leave the Union, denying the people of that states the rights guaranteed them by the Constitution, then those rights are meaningless. The proper way for a state to leave the union is through Constitutional Amendment. That way the rights of the people of that state are fully protected. So if SC or Texas wants to leave the Union, they need a Constitutional Amendment removing them from the Union.
If there was any doubt as to that it was resolved with the passage of the 14th Amendment.

Uh huh June 24, 2015 at 8:00 pm

Have you ever looked into the specifics in regard to HOW the 14th passed?

Mark June 24, 2015 at 8:06 pm

If you don’t think its binding, you can challenge it in the Courts. But that is your only remedy. Otherwise you must have a Constitutional Amendment to leave the Union.
But why such concern? If you can get enough of your fellow South Carolinians to agree to become a citizen of the Banana Republic of Carolina and leave their country, not many states would want to stop you. SC is after all a taker state. I suspect a Constitutional Amendment removing SC as state is very doable. Why not give the regular process a try?

Uh huh June 24, 2015 at 8:07 pm

You seem to be saying opposite things and never bothered to answer the question.

Was that intentional?

Mark June 24, 2015 at 8:18 pm

I don’t understand your question. I have not said opposite things. I have said if South Carolinians wants to leave the Union, they can ask the for a constitutional amendment removing them as a state. If they can get that amendment passed under the procedures set forth in the Constitution, they will no longer be a state. They will become a sovereign nation. I also said I do not think there are many states who would stand in their way. We are a taker state. We contribute little or noting to the Union at this time.
I don’t care about how the 14th Amendment was passed. Until the Supreme Court of the US rules otherwise it is valid and binding on the states. That is how the system works. I personally am very happy its works that way. I for one have no desire to be a citizen of the Banana Republic of Carolina. I want it to be as difficult as possible for a bunch of dumb asses to force me to leave my state in order to remain a US citizen. I am proud of my country. I like being a citizen.

Uh huh June 24, 2015 at 9:07 pm

“I don’t understand your question”

You could have stopped there.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:50 pm

It would save billions if people would just do that.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:49 pm

it’s called “dissonance”

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 8:52 pm

If you can get enough of your fellow South Carolinians to agree to become a citizen of the Banana Republic of Carolina and leave their country, not many states would want to stop you. SC is after all a taker state. I suspect a Constitutional Amendment removing SC as state is very doable. Why not give the regular process a try?

Lucy:
“C’mon Charlie Brown. Kick the football!”

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:47 pm

Come on, you guys… declare war on us this time… comeon… pleeeeeeese?

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:17 pm

“not many states would want to stop you”…so you are speaking for all the states now, egotism at it’s highest.

CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 10:20 am

Just think of all the tolls we could charge making those Yankees pay to cross our borders to get to FL.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 8:46 pm

We are in disagreement of the founder’s intent…but TBG will certainly grant (heh!) you that it has been a moot point since Appomattox.

Writers block June 24, 2015 at 9:09 pm

“moot point”….ugh…you of all people.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:46 pm

We could have nipped this all in the bud by starting up the inquisition again.

CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 10:18 am

Exactly how did the 14th amendment read in 1860?

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:13 pm

Form a new government not chop the union into a thousand weak useless countries.
What you believe has no bearing on fact or history. They never would have created a union if they didn’t believe in unity.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 7:17 pm

You can’t secede from a country. It doesn’t work like that. The nations interests trump the state. National security and the like all trump states rights.

You call yourself ‘American”?
…or are you channelling King George?

“When in the course of human events…” , moron.

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KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:00 pm

We have a supreme court for a reason. You need some educating. Can a state have nuclear weapons?
Can a state form it’s own army?
Can a state make deregulate alcohol and tobacco?
Can a state declare war?
Go learn some things and get back to us…

Uh huh June 24, 2015 at 7:58 pm

“The south wanted their slaves to do the work for them.”

Around 5% of Southerners actually owned slaves….that’s a pretty broad brush you’re painting with.

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 9:55 pm

5% owned hundreds each! Poor southerners didn’t want to secede and they sure didn’t want to fight a war for super rich plantation owners that kept slaves.
The fact that 95% of southerners would allow 5% to shame their legacy is disgusting!
The south has nothing to be proud of.

Uh huh June 24, 2015 at 10:23 pm

“5% owned hundreds each!”

Yet it’s still only 5%.

“The fact that 95% of southerners would allow 5% to shame their legacy is disgusting!”

What were they going to do? Not only were many of them hapless, poor, & uneducated….were they going to march over to rich plantation owners and demand the freedom of their hundreds of slaves?

Get a clue.

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 2:04 am

That is why the south is a shameful place that celebrates one of the most shameful things in American history. You make my point. The masses did not rise up against tyranny and slavery they fought to keep it going.

Uh huh June 25, 2015 at 9:42 am

“The masses did not rise up against tyranny and slavery they fought to keep it going.”

Alright champ, let’s say I run with your argument and the South is “shameful” because it’s 95% poor, uneducated, immobile citizens at the time didn’t storm the gates of the rich slave holders demanding the slaves freedom.

Let’s say your ridiculous argumenet holds water, what then about Africa?

Who’s worse? Non slave holding Southerners that had no real abilitity to free slaves or the Africans that SOLD their defeated brethern INTO SLAVERY?

Using your argument, clearly Africa is a far more “shameful place.”

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 11:15 am

So the best you can do is to say the south is a little bit better than the entire continent of Africa ( most of Africa didn’t sell slaves). That is a weak argument.

Uh huh June 25, 2015 at 12:43 pm

“So the best you can do is to say the south is a little bit better than the entire continent of Africa ( most of Africa didn’t sell slaves). That is a weak argument.”

Now you get it! I simply used your argument against you.

YOU ARE RIGHT, it’s a “weak” argument.

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 2:20 pm

We agree that the south is awful and has a hateful history that they refuse to move on from. Good.

CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 3:11 pm

You fail to respond to my suggestion of locales for you to move to.

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 3:49 pm

Because you are less than intelligent.

CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 10:15 am

When it comes to “shameful things”, Native Americans may differ with you.

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 11:10 am

Look above. I already brought that up as the #1 shameful. Slaves and nuking Japanese civilians.

CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 3:10 pm

Ask those on the Bataan death march how sorry they feel for nuked Jap civilians.

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 3:50 pm

Targeting innocent civilians is wrong. If you disagree then you support the terrorists of 9/11. Civilians are civilians.

Rocky June 25, 2015 at 9:46 am

Are we talking about today?

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:30 pm

only 5% of the Germans manned concentration camps.
Less than 5% of the population get abortions.
Less than 5% of the population commit murder
Less than 5% of Muslims hit us on 9-11.
Less than 5% of Americans were killed on 9-11.
95% of 9-11 terrorists were Saudis.

Uh huh June 25, 2015 at 12:38 pm

…and…you might be surprised to know I think NONE of those populations deserve to be vilified over the actions of a few either.

I’m “funny” that way.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:41 pm

If the Germans were still flying the Nazi flag, how would that make you feel?

I’m assuming here, that you’re Jewish.

Uh huh June 25, 2015 at 12:51 pm

I see your point, but if we codify “hate” in society- it’s a train wreck waiting to happen.

I don’t have to be “for” slavery to understand the flag has some meaning to some that doesn’t envelope “hate”.

I also can also see the point of blacks finding the flag repulsive.

From that perspective, it shouldn’t be flying on any “public” building that people of all colors are paying for.

BUT, this focus on hate is concerning to me because if we get to a place where “hate” is codified without accompanying crime it’s going to be a very bad place to go…

Even further, and to your point, just like we shouldn’t brand all Germans “Nazi’s” or assume that most of the population endorsed genocide, etc., we should be equally gracious to Southerners in the same vein.

There’s nuance for crying out loud, & I expect you of all people to appreciate that.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 2:22 pm

what is the nuance for crying out loud? Would it be something like guerrilla journalism? couldn’t there be more than one? Is it a sign of immaturity?

So this isn’t about the issue itself, for you – you’re a peripheral visionary.

You’re worried about the consequences of codifying hate.

If that’s what you *really* want to talk about… let’s *dance*, motherfucker!

intent, prevention, evil, justice.
—————-
That’s the battlefield where all the pain, injustice and dying happens. The threat to people who just want to play in a sandbox with rules that don’t eliminate the fun, is men with guns… right?

intent

Intent is what motivates people… the main cause of human action. Human action without intent can also cause pain, injustice and death.

Intent, though we think of it is an individual choice, can be influenced by threat and/or deception. Education vs Propaganda.

prevention

Prevention is like a fence. It’s an obstruction, a barrier to access – either to objects or information.

We may prevent access to a fragile object, an object intended for individual or special group use, and objects whose contact or use could be destructive to property or people.

a subcategory is reduced access. Conditional prevention of access. Applies to things for sale or rent, private property, things that need training to use properly, things that are fragile, and things that are shared.

Prevention usually deals with property and people, but sometimes it deals with evil.

evil

immorality, wickedness, bad stuff, hurtful, harmful, pestilence, famine, sorrow infliction, mischief, displeasure, adversity, affliction, trouble, calamity, misery, and trouble.

A subcategory of evil is in the domain of the mind. The mind hasn’t been defined as physical, or only an effect of something physical. We are not able to predict actions by analyzing the mind. Emotional pain, or threat can’t be quantified. Causal links between information and action are weak. The mind is involved in this category as a generator. This “black box” is the focus of influencers using propaganda and the threat of force. When the mind has determined that something is “evil,” it prioritizes it as a threat, or an ongoing erosion. What it does about it is not uniform.

Only abstract definitions of evil exist for immorality, and usually end up defining harmful effects from actions that are later defined as immoral because of the harm, or unprovable supernatural consequences. The core idea is that the actor is doing something deliberately to harm others for his own pleasure, or imagined benefit.

justice

The process or result of providing impartial adjustment of conflicting claims by defining or assessing rights, and by so doing, protecting those rights. Justice is enforced by men with guns.

Rights are a subcategory of justice, and derive their force from men with guns. A “right” is only defined when someone has sufficient force to insure it, otherwise, it’s an “ideal.”

This is the battlefield, peace boy.

Now.

Codifying hate.

What do *you* mean by that – who has proposed it, in what context, and what are your objections?

Uh huh June 26, 2015 at 9:03 am

“What do *you* mean by that – who has proposed it, in what context, and what are your objections?”

It’s very simple. When someone has an inner “dislike” for someone, or something, it should never rise to the level of a “crime”(against person physically or property).

It’s just that simple. The “crime” should be the focal point. If someone wants to study intent afterwards to determine if it’s a “crime”, then fine…explore their “hate”…but if you codify the hate itself you are asking for big trouble.

euwe max June 26, 2015 at 10:53 am

It’s very simple. When someone has an inner “dislike” for someone, or something, it should never rise to the level of a “crime”(against person physically or property).

——–
This has happened? I must have missed it.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:29 pm

Around 5% of Southerners actually owned slaves
———
were they leased or something?

Slartibartfast June 24, 2015 at 8:37 pm

In letters which survive, today, at the Caroliniana Library, you can read for yourself, from several sources, that slaves were NOT used for almost any architectural endeavors. Owners were afraid that they would build poorly, either by accident or on purpose.

Reply
tomstickler June 24, 2015 at 8:44 pm

One glaring exception. Renty Tucker was a slave owned by Plowden C.J. Weston, and was renowned for his ability as a carpenter and a builder.

An excellent article in The Coastal Observer is at:

http://www.coastalobserver.com/articles/2015/031915/7.html

Slartibartfast June 24, 2015 at 8:47 pm

Indeed. And the exception proves the rule, as you can see in the letters.

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 9:53 pm

Yeah, it suck to be a racist slave owner. Everybody hates you, everybody wants to burn your cities, everybody wants to shoot you.. Oh the humanity!
Did you have a point?

Slartibartfast June 24, 2015 at 10:20 pm

“Did you have a point?”

Yes, actually.

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 10:33 pm

Some of us want the fence to come down, I believe he want’s to keep the fence up.

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 2:05 am

So we agree the south is a S#%@ hole.

9" June 25, 2015 at 9:34 am

I love The South.Redneck men are hot and make the best lovers,after a 6-pack…

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:28 pm

…yeah, but how do you get them to exercise?

CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 10:13 am

You can leave for Watts, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. at any time. Bye!

FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 5:47 pm

Amazon no longer selling a that Flag. … Just the usual Nazis souvenirs.

Reply
9" June 24, 2015 at 5:56 pm

Learn how to sew.I’m surprised Will has just learned about this.It’s one of the things that made this whole ordeal such a hollow gesture.Come on.You’re expecting Haley to make a Noble gesture?

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 6:11 pm

Facebook won’t allow a photo of the statue Venus or David but they allow hate sites.

Reply
9" June 24, 2015 at 6:19 pm

That’s not true.

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:15 pm

YES IT IS!

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:27 pm

is not.

KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:18 pm

Facebook is un-American. Nobody should be censored.

guest June 24, 2015 at 7:16 pm

Bill and Hillary don’t think so:

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KAI! June 24, 2015 at 10:00 pm

I wouldn’t be shocked.

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KAI! June 24, 2015 at 9:58 pm

Zzzzzz Zzzzzzz

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Tard Repellant June 24, 2015 at 7:44 pm

” anti-Christian”?

“We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its
sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent and
federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, and
secure the blessing of liberty to ourselves and our posterity—invoking
the favor and guidance of Almighty God—do ordain and establish this
Constitution for the Confederate States of America.”

“Because its the flag of slavery, suffering, human bondage”

There were Union states that had slaves too champ….

I guess 1 out of 3 isn’t too bad…if you’re a baseball player.

Reply
KAI! June 24, 2015 at 9:58 pm

ANTI-CHRISITIAN.
Where the BIble does it say you can keep humans as property?
How many slaves did Jesus own?

Reply
TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 10:27 pm

Where the BIble does it say you can keep humans as property?

Leviticus 25:44, for starters.

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Tard Repellant June 24, 2015 at 10:29 pm

Ouch! I wonder if it stings?

KAI! June 25, 2015 at 2:01 am

I think you missed the point. You got it backward. But the Bible is bad fiction at best anyway.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 25, 2015 at 6:01 am

I think you missed the point. You got it backward. But the Bible is bad fiction at best anyway.

TBG didn’t miss the point.

TBG didn’t get it backwards.

TBG merely answered your question, Holmes.

Having a discussion with you reminds TBG of a story…..

Rachel borrowed a pot from her neighbor. When she returned it the neighbor
noticed it had a crack. The neighbor asked Rachel to pay for a new pot. Rachel
refused, and gave four reasons why she won’t pay for a new pot.

#1. She
never borrowed a pot.

#2. She returned the pot without a crack.

#3. The pot was cracked before she borrowed it.

#4. It was an
worthless pot anyway.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 12:26 pm

You should have just said “nya nya NYA!”

that would have hurt even more because it would have been in the original Hebrew.

Tard Repellant June 24, 2015 at 10:29 pm

You do realize the Union had slaves too, right?

Reply
9" June 24, 2015 at 5:16 pm

Pyrrhic victory.Whether it was truly ‘racially motivated’ has yet to be determined.There needs to be an evaluation by a forensic psychiatrist…

Reply
Butter June 24, 2015 at 8:04 pm

You’re on a roll today.

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nitrat June 24, 2015 at 5:16 pm

NYT or WaPo – been reading so much, I can’t remember – reported that Reince Priebus was in Columbia Monday.

And, BMW, of all companies, needs to take a hit at home for ever coming to a state that was flying the flag on the statehouse.
And, the Swedes need to ask Volvo a few questions.
Is it Alabama or Mississippi that has the Mercedes plant?
I bet VW has had some input the Nathan Forrest bust in the statehouse in Tennessee.

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CNSYD June 24, 2015 at 6:06 pm

Right. German and Jap skirts are so clean.

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Leader? June 24, 2015 at 5:28 pm

Haley is still scared of the flag issue, evidenced by the fact that she has yet to take it down ever though she has the power to do so.

http://www.wistv.com/story/29397118/can-gov-nikki-haley-temporarily-take-down-the-confederate-flag

She had the “occupy” protestors arrested on the state house grounds even though no law gave her the power to do so (and it cost the taxpayers over 200K), but now she is hiding behind the “I don’t have the authority to do it” excuse. Lame.

She could remove it and dare the legislature to put it back up…that would be true “leadership”.

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Bible Thumper June 24, 2015 at 6:12 pm

Several people have already tried to take it down and found out differently.

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Tom June 24, 2015 at 7:36 pm

Name one.

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Bible Thumper June 24, 2015 at 8:23 pm

I’ve tried to research it by time before the church shooting, but the search terms are in too many banners and side bars of even old articles. They have current banners and side bars referencing the current stories.

Perhaps someone else can help find it since I’m using a smart phone.

I read an article more than a year old of a protester trespassing over the fence and trying to take down the flag and failing.

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Tom June 24, 2015 at 8:32 pm

Well of course a trespasser cannot remove the flag. He or she will be arrested. But no one is going to arrest a person operating under orders from the Governor. Who would do it? She is in charge of everyone who works there, except folks who work directly for the Senate and House.

If she can’t figure that out, read this
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/confederate_flag_removed_from.html

.

Bible Thumper June 24, 2015 at 8:49 pm

“Bentley said before he made the final decision he checked to see if there were any impediments in the law or state policy that would prevent him from taking down the flag and found none, so he acted.”

Haley is restrained by law. Any governor who purposely doesn’t enforce the law should resign or be impeached.
The state and race relations are better off having the legislature remove the flag.
It would be a political gift to racists and other flag supporters, if Haley violated the law. If no one charged her , the state could still be sued.

David June 24, 2015 at 5:29 pm

Who is Allison Griffor

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randysmugglesgerbals June 25, 2015 at 1:58 am

what difference does it make

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e Norma scok June 24, 2015 at 5:31 pm

Who cares why it comes down?

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bert June 24, 2015 at 6:31 pm

Pining racists.

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FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 5:46 pm

Hey! Let’s fight the Civil War all over again! Come on! This time it will be more fun.

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Abe Lincoln June 24, 2015 at 5:50 pm

North – OK, can we use both hands this time? We’re sort of busy and we don’t want to spend more than a week or so at it. Actually 5 days, yeah, that’s about right. We think we can do the whole thing in about 5 days. Just remember, we get to keep all the aircraft in SC, NC, GA, VA, MS, AL, LA, AR, FL, MS (but those are rubber band windups), TX and TN. Oh, and we get to keep the ground forces in GA, NC, SC, TX, LA, FL and VA, and Seal Team 6. What time you want to start?

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FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 5:58 pm

And the well armed FEMA, TSA, IRS, Dept. of Agriculture, Dept of Interior … et al?

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Abe Lincoln June 24, 2015 at 6:02 pm

We’ll give you the Dept of Agriculture and a five minute head start. You can have Congress too – they’re sort of as useful as tits on a pig.

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FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 6:05 pm

Gonna need more than five minutes to just get congress to bring it to a vote.

How about 48 hours, so we can ready that B-17 of the Confederate Airforce? (In case no one noticed, All Confederate Airforce planes fly That Flag.)

Bible Thumper June 24, 2015 at 6:10 pm

If we win this time, do I get to keep slaves?

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FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 6:19 pm

If “we” don’t “win”, you could always memorize the Koran and enter that contest in Syria … Top five slots get a sex slave.

(I never considered winning or losing … probably ought to come up with an escape clause.)

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guest June 24, 2015 at 7:04 pm

Funny shit!!!!

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TroubleBaby June 24, 2015 at 9:28 pm

They’ll never have to be a war…economics will drive things.

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euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:32 pm

Can I be Sherman?

Can I?

Can I?

Can I be Sherman?

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Rocky June 25, 2015 at 10:00 am

Dang straight you can.

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Rocky June 24, 2015 at 5:47 pm

Will – I saw Davis interviewed Monday evening, and his story is that it started on Friday, among himself and other Senators, to get it removed. His interview, and we have no reason to doubt it as truthful, is that on Thursday late, when he saw that the flag remained at full mast, when the others were lowered, personally affected him. That from then on he wanted it down, as did many others. I think we need to give them as much credit. It might have taken BWM, Volvo, Boeing and the fat tire baby to get to Haley, I don’t think it took those calls to move the Senate. When it’s over I’d like to see Davis’ take on the events.

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CNSYD June 24, 2015 at 6:04 pm

Have no fear, carpetbagger Davis will grab all the “credit” he can. His chief publicist Wil Folks will ensure that.

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SANDY June 24, 2015 at 5:57 pm

Haley just being who she is a corporate whore.

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RANDY June 24, 2015 at 6:30 pm

And SC is just being the ridiculous national joke that it is.

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randysmugglesgerbals June 25, 2015 at 1:27 am

i dunno that lady from ohio dangled her kid over the big cat exhibit takes the cake fer me

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Manray9 June 24, 2015 at 5:59 pm

When you’re even trailing Alabama…

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Bible Thumper June 24, 2015 at 6:04 pm

The The Last Rhodesian. Sunday allowed for nation grieving. Monday she got the jump on others who might call for brining it down. You people won’t admit it but we have a political generous for Governor. BOZ knows this.

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Maggie Mae June 24, 2015 at 6:13 pm

SC has an idiot for a governor-she couldn’t even read the speech that obviously National GOP wrote for her correctly. If you watched her on any of the national TV news reports early on – she couldn’t even handle herself on TV – kept shooting herself in the foot and misspeaking. Haley really shows her horribly true colors when she tries to speak on her feet.

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Bible Thumper June 24, 2015 at 6:20 pm

You don’t know nothing ’bout polytics does ya?
Let’s make a bet. I say she goes up in the polls. What do you say?

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Frank Right June 24, 2015 at 7:33 pm

I am proud of Gov. Haley. I hope one day she is VP. Based on the field of current candidates– I’d vote for her as POTUS.

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guest June 24, 2015 at 8:18 pm

Yet you are pro- abortion and support gay marriage.She is a BIG ‘G’ Christian and you use SMALL ‘g’ for GOD.

What do you like about her? Taking down a flag that NOBODY gives a shit about outside of 1% of the people in 5 states?

Frank Right June 24, 2015 at 11:28 pm

I’m going to entertain you Grand Tango, fc, Pogo and guests. What do I like about her? She is a brilliant strategist and politician. Doesn’t hurt that she is pretty. She listens. She is smart. She proves me wrong, when I think she is wrong. She proves me right, when I think she is right. She is always one step ahead of assholes like you and sometimes like me. She knows when she can gain ground, she also knows when it is a losing game. She is fair. She cares. I have yet to see someone outsmart her. I don’t always agree with her, but she is more Right than wrong.

whatever June 24, 2015 at 6:28 pm

Suckering your gullible ass does not make her a political genius. Working the intellectually challenged voters of SC isn’t very hard.

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Truth! June 24, 2015 at 7:39 pm

“Working the intellectually challenged voters of SC isn’t very hard.”

+1 for truth.

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Frank Right June 24, 2015 at 7:32 pm

I admit, she is a political genius.

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euwe max June 25, 2015 at 1:11 pm

all girls are, from the age of about 5.

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Squishy123 June 24, 2015 at 6:07 pm

How soon until we start hearing demands for a Pinckney statue on the Statehouse grounds? By the time this is all blown out of proportion, he’ll be a martyr.

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FastEddy23 June 24, 2015 at 6:10 pm

Ok, so what’s next? Can someone give us a reading on that Islamic crescent moon on that Other Flag?

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Slartibartfast June 24, 2015 at 8:28 pm

Once upon a time, there was a little girl, standing by a Palmetto tree. “But Mr. Mohammed,” she said, “don’t you think I’m a little young to ..”

“Shut up and look at the moon, kid,” said Mr. Mohammed, gently.

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idcydm June 24, 2015 at 7:07 pm

There a whole lot of people that need to get over themselves, they live on both sides of the fence and they want to keep the fence up.

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TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 7:14 pm

Why South Carolina Flipped On The Confederate Flag

Since it is already a fait accompli to the cognoscente in our state, why not have a referendum?

Democracy and all that.

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guest June 24, 2015 at 7:15 pm

Excellent!

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idcydm June 24, 2015 at 7:21 pm

Do you mean like all the referendums California has?

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Frank Right June 24, 2015 at 7:27 pm

Every ballot question I have read is misleading unless the person is educated on the topic. As dumb as some of the legislators sounded on CSPAN yesterday, I have more confidence they are educated on the topic.

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TontoBubbaGoldstein June 24, 2015 at 7:41 pm

Put it on a referendum every 4 years. Keep the wording simple (use pictures if necessary). Guarantee that it will be put up for vote every four years for perpetuity, otherwise the PTB will just run the referendums until they get the “right” result.

Democracy in action!!!

PRO TIP:
The tide runs in AND out. The sun don’t shine on the same dog’s ass every day.

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Slartibartfast June 24, 2015 at 8:05 pm

Nor does lightning strike the same cartoon cat in different publications. I don’t know what that means, but it sounds amazingly profound……. Please, pass the Bowmore..

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euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:57 pm

…you’ll laugh so hard your sides will ache, your heart will go pitter pat… watching… Felix… Felix the cat.

jimmy chitwood June 24, 2015 at 9:05 pm

Opal Fleener: Sun don’t shine on the same dog’s ass everyday, but, mister you ain’t seen a ray of light since you got here.

Damn.From the movie Hoosiers.

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idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:10 pm

jimmy where you in the Air Force and stationed in Rapid City?

jc June 24, 2015 at 9:14 pm

No.I just liked to shoot hoops on a farm in Indiana.

Hoosier June 24, 2015 at 9:16 pm

lol…just like Larry Bird

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:27 pm

I heard that even God has to put up with conservatives.

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Frank Right June 24, 2015 at 10:53 pm

LMAO! Damn good thing – dogs die every 8-15 years. Smaller dogs live longer.

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Rocky June 25, 2015 at 9:42 am

It does in the desert.

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guest June 24, 2015 at 8:06 pm

Nice.Calling voters dummies.Garbage.God I wish we were all as smart as you.

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Ok, but June 24, 2015 at 8:08 pm

Well…in his defense a good percentage of voters are dummies.

Do you really think otherwise?

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guest June 24, 2015 at 8:14 pm

Not really. Republicans vote their faith,finances and defense of country.
Democrats vote based on grievance, race and turning America into socialist Europe.

Neither are dummies.

Ok, but June 24, 2015 at 9:06 pm
guest June 24, 2015 at 9:12 pm

State controlled public schools and universities have brainwashed and destroyed the minds of young people the last 20 years.America is evil and racist.History is reinterpreted from a radical socialist/marxixt perspective-or ignored.How we got a degenerate, closet ‘muslim’ like Obama.

We don’t get em back until they are 35-45.Depends on how strong the family is.

Ok, but June 24, 2015 at 9:14 pm

So you concede my point?

guest June 24, 2015 at 9:18 pm

No. It doesn’t go on forever as you say. People become more conservative as they get older…they are informed.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:24 pm

if, as you get older, you become more conservative, then it explains why everyone dies.

Ok, but June 24, 2015 at 9:34 pm

You seem to deny the reality, even when videotaped.

Oh well. Champion the electorate if it makes you feel better.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:56 pm

Republicans vote their faith,finances and defense of country.

——-
Republicans are scum.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:23 pm

Half of the population is below average.

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idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:26 pm

Just like Doctors and Lawyers, half ended up in the bottom half of their class.

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:28 pm

Not conservatives – they grade on a monetary curve.

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:30 pm

Are you saying only the dumb ones go to a liberal college?

euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:30 pm

The dumb ones actually have to do the work.

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:41 pm

True of all professions, except politics, they’re all dumb but smart enough to keep getting elected by the below average population.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:19 am

True of all professions, except politics, they’re all dumb but smart enough to keep getting elected by the below average population.

——
politics isn’t work – it’s deception

Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:58 am

Max has unending enigmatic prose.

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 11:05 pm

lol nice edit, looks like will have to start copy and paste your comments for now on.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:17 am

it takes a while for me to complete a thought in text. :)

Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:36 am

Are Democrats not graded on a monetary curve? I seem to recall Warren Buffet complaining that his housekeeper paid a higher rate – if he is so pissed off about it –why doesn’t he help her with her tax bill?

How many people does he hire to do his bidding? Or is that a different war?

We can debate all day race, color, political allegiance and …….

Or we can work together to make sense of the madness both sides box us in to ‘shelter’ us.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:30 am

Or we can work together

——
liberals work together for each other.

Republicans work for themselves.

Democrats aren’t working.

TroubleBaby June 24, 2015 at 9:30 pm

Is your argument that half the electorate are doctors and lawyers?

lol

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:34 pm

Did I say that or is that what you comprehended?

You have to live in Lake Wobegon for all to be above average.

TroubleBaby June 24, 2015 at 9:35 pm

Well, otherwise it seems non-sequitur…I was looking for logic.

idcydm June 24, 2015 at 9:36 pm

Looking for logic on this site, now that is an lol.

euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:20 am

I take umbridge

Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 1:02 am

Is that like a double something? Non-sequitur and logic? I’m just a dumb guy in the crowd, with an inquisitive mind.

Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:13 am

LMAO! Trouble and I had a debate about this (IQ) earlier that ended quickly. Still puzzled. But he is funny, so free pass.

Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:23 am

Just a guess, but the entire US, state by state, is more familiar with what is going on in SC than our own population. There are many valid reasons for that– but no one who can validate that is likely on this site. Few I know personally, know anything about politics. Many are happy to have someone who does and explain it. No time for meetings, churches mislead (against IRS regulation I might add), people simply don’t have the time or care to follow it.

I can’t say I blame them. I hate politics. Yet here I am.

BedStuyWhiteGuy June 25, 2015 at 8:52 am

consider brain drain and you may find most of the population below national average

Frank Right June 24, 2015 at 11:10 pm

It is garbage like you, that give us all a bad name — and a lack of confidence in voters. You want a democracy? This is the United States of America — Pure Democracy is a populace vote.

Should we elect representatives to make tough decisions? Or should we go with a populace vote — ignoring electoral votes, state and individual rights?

God I wish you were as smart as me too.

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SYNTwist June 25, 2015 at 6:38 am

Shame on you.I am the REAL garbage!!! :) LMAO
Sybil Right strikes again.

Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:37 pm

MPD or collaborative efforts? LMAO! You never know if you are talking to Sybil or Dr. Jekyll. Keeps things interesting.

Point of Order June 24, 2015 at 8:03 pm

If it’s true that the big corps rapped Haley on the nose over the issue, then there’s actually a coalition that’s been built that we’ll never see again:

Crony capitalists & blacks coming together in unity over dropping the Confederate flag….lol…now THAT is something.

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euwe max June 24, 2015 at 9:22 pm

bad precedent.

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BedStuyWhiteGuy June 25, 2015 at 8:49 am

What precedent are you talking about? When has the American public ever voluntarily enacted any civil rights reform?

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euwe max June 25, 2015 at 11:12 am

Democracy

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BedStuyWhiteGuy July 5, 2015 at 8:44 pm

Checks and balances. We aren’t a direct democracy.

euwe max July 5, 2015 at 8:47 pm

follow the thread – I said Democracy is a bad precedent.

BedStuyWhiteGuy July 5, 2015 at 10:32 pm

ah ok thanks for clearing that up Joker

euwe max July 6, 2015 at 12:16 am

no problem. Happy to help.

9" June 25, 2015 at 9:21 am

I just want a new Volvo.

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TontoBubbaGoldstein June 25, 2015 at 9:40 am

That’s what Bruce Jenner said!

BADOOM PSSHHH!

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Rocky June 25, 2015 at 9:43 am

Like 10+++

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Jack June 24, 2015 at 7:27 pm

Watching these Republicans bail on the racist rednecks that brought them to power is true fun. Its like watching rats on a sinking ship. Running around trying to be the first to say they never really liked the flag or bought into the “heritage not hate argument.” They just did not realize that black people were really serious about taking the flag down. They are soooooo sorry, they did not listen. Now that they have seen the light, of course they want to take it down. I mean why didn’t you guys say something sooner.

The latest is little Mickey Mulvaney. But even better is the quadruple summersault done by his aid, Eric Bedingfield, read all about that here.
.http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/23/star-s-c-congressmans-aide-among-nay-votes-on-confederate-flag-debate/

CAN YOU SAY PATHETIC!!!!.

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CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 10:27 am

Mulvaney has aids?

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Slartibartfast June 24, 2015 at 8:24 pm

A short, biased history of South Carolina: The large indigo, tea, and tobacco plantation owners were the first to ojbect to London’s taxation. The large cotton plantation owners were the first to complain about the 1842 Northern bankruptcy taxes on Southern goods. The large textile manufacturers were the first to complain about federal taxes of the 30’s & 40’s, and later the increase in the cost of labor. Today, giant companies who employ 30% of South Carolina’s blue collars want big tax relief and an occasional “favor.” Why do we feel like sea lions in killer whale season?

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Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:09 am

Smart man Slartibartfast (damn a lot to type), I agree, it is a biased history you propose. I don’t disagree in whole but in large part. Your reads are interesting and thought provoking, but as you stated in the preface — biased.

Correlation lacking causality.

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RHood2 June 25, 2015 at 12:14 am

Sonoco is the biggest company in the state and made a public statement about removing the flag.
Might not be SC’s newer companies.

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Frank Right June 25, 2015 at 12:17 am

Haven’t read that yet. Link?

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Charleston Tourism Will Lose June 25, 2015 at 12:35 am

Yeah. They are all going around behind closed doors slinging threats to ruin careers or to pull out of the state. Volvo wants Charleston purged of anything honoring slave owners. Its bad for business. It would be easy to mock Volvo and Boeing over Charleston running a profitable tourism business based mostly on slavery and the honor of those who upheld it. It sucks, but ya gotta change the old ways. Before, there was no internet to get the word out. Charleston and South Carolina needs to clean the dirt that is all over its face. Can’t spin out of it this time. No more is it kewl to praise a place making money off the old slave days. In fact, its pretty sick.

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Bible Thumper June 25, 2015 at 7:57 am

There are plenty of ways for Charleston to leverage its history to support tourism and respect African Americans. African want to know own their history as much or more than anyone else.

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Rocky June 25, 2015 at 9:58 am

I’d just point out, that in today’s Charleston, the folks selling those grass baskets at the Market, arrive in $40K cars. My first wife and I bought a basket at the market in 1991, it cost us $40. Today, same basket is about $300. Those African Americans are well respected. As are others. The Slave Market doesn’t glorify slavery, not place a stigma on every visitor that attends. Let’s not confuse removal of a flag in Columbia, placed there for racist reasons, with displaying our history. As for tourism, most tourists come to Charleston because it’s a beautiful city. While many will ride around in carriages, and see the forts, and civil war sites, I’d say a great number of them mainly want to hit the Market, shopping on King and dining downtown.

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CNSYD June 25, 2015 at 10:25 am

Yep, tourism will tank just like the effect that the NAACP boycott caused. Please don’t throw us in that briar patch.

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Squishy123 June 25, 2015 at 9:21 am Reply
RhettButla June 25, 2015 at 9:48 am

I hope Wil underestimates the influence of the comments and arguments for change that ran hot on his blog for days. If it was Only the Money, you say, in effect, that all of our law makers are completely morally bankrupt, not merely intellectually weak and subject to influence by rancor. I would think our Northern brethren here with the national media might have been impressed by the depth of our insight and the elequence of our acerbic wit, in some cases, and astounded by the willful ignorance in others. Politicians as a Class tend to be like herd animals, dumb and needful of direction. Money will provide that lead, I like to chastise and browbeat….

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erneba June 25, 2015 at 10:33 am

I don’t have strong feelings either way on the flag, never owned one, don’t have a lot of disdain for its use.
But, it is inevitable that the flag is destined to be removed from government property and general public use. In one way, I see it as tit for tat. The good people of Charleston, especially family and friends of the relatives have chosen to forgive the killer, and move on. Now is time for the state to remove the flag from government property as a reciprocation of good will and mutual admiration.
For some, the flag is a part of South Carolina history and will never go away or its symbolism denied. For others, it is a symbol that evokes painful memories. Both sides just need to suck it up, compromise, and move on.
In a few months, we will probably realize nothing much has changed and a lesson to the future may be one of less posturing, less bloviating, less blaming, and more genuine analysis of current problems will produce lasting remedies.

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euwe max June 25, 2015 at 1:07 pm

let’s all sit down, smoke a little pot, and reflect a bit.

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