Three days ago this website published a controversial post asserting that America’s global interventionism and steady erosion of liberty on the homefront made our nation less safe.
Addressing “neo-conservative” whores like U.S. Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, we wrote “what these fiscally liberal, crony capitalist warmongers habitually fail to comprehend is that invading countries without a compelling national interest (and protecting another country isNOT a compelling national interest) isn’t making us safer. In fact, such a policy does nothing but fuel the fires of radical extremism and anti-Americanism – making us less safe.”
We even included a no-nonsense title – “This Is Why People Bomb Us” – which has since gone viral.
As usual, we were dead right.
From The Washington Post …
The 19-year-old suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings has told interrogators that the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan motivated him and his brother to carry out the attack, according to U.S. officials familiar with the interviews.
Meanwhile by way of debunking the borderline fascist suggestion that suspects in such cases should be treated as enemy combatants, the paper is reporting that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and his 26-year-old brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev (who died in a shootout with police last week) were not part of some organized terror plot.
Dzhokhar and his older brother … do not appear to have been directed by a foreign terrorist organization …
“These are persons operating inside the United States without a nexus” to an overseas group, a U.S. intelligence official said.
Hmmmm …
Here’s the thing, though …
No matter the Tsarnaevs’ reason was for perpetrating these attacks, there is never a justification for targeting civilians (including children) this way. Just as there is never a justification for shredding the constitution in seeking justice against those who commit such cowardly acts.
***
60 comments
Is either of those countries named Chechnya? Should we expect former natives of Japan to set off IEDs here? The tie is not countries, it is religion. If the US had “invaded” Canada do you think they would have cared? They were “Manchurian candidates” for Islam.
CNSYD –
We never fitted you for a BigT foil hat, but if it fits …
Sic Willie, I will don a foil hat if you will take a course in logic. Deal?
Religion is a catalyst for extremism, but not necessarily the root cause.
Our prolonged presence in the Middle East, as is the case with some other places, puts a strain on the locals’ tolerance of us. Japan and South Korea both have movements that are pretty strongly against the amount of presence we have there, although they tend to be quite peaceful (lack of religion does help, but mostly because the country is still our ally, is more developed and our presence doesn’t often interfere with the shit they have going on, plus we don’t kill tens or hundreds of Japanese/Korean folks in a bad drone strike).
The Middle East is especially bad because (1) most people know we are only there to promote our own country’s interests, and (2) we kill a shitload of innocent people, not to mention (3) our staunch support of Israel. Most people in the Middle East see us as a danger, as a threat, and as a country that is just using them for its own interests, and they view some of the governments willing to work with us as servants to those interests.
The religion in the area tends to lean towards extremism more quickly than others because (1) a theocracy tends to make a religion more strictly followed, naysayers be damned, and (2) because Islam has not undergone centuries of change through secularism and cultural awakenings.
However, any religion can have extremists, especially when the believers feel threatened by someone or something else. There are Sri Lankan Buddhist extremists who the Dalai Lama has denounced as not representative to the faith, and many of those extremists target Muslims.
I am generally progressive but I come down hard against Islam. It is a religion of hate. The duty of every devout Muslim man is to wage jihad. The job of Islam is to convert, subjugate, or kill infidels…like us. Go read any exegesis of Islam and Muhammad and you will see command after command to kill the infidel. These are addressed in sections of the Koran called hadiths.
These are NOT nice people. We should ban all Muslims from ever entering the USA. KICK THEM OUT NOW ! How many times will this crap keep on happening before we finally understand these bastards?
Better watch out, Tyrone: If you get caught NOT hating America, they’ll kick you out of the Liberal-Tarian Party…and FITS will suspend your posting rights…And Mace will pre-file a bill against you…
There is ZERO Tolerance for anyone denouncing Jihad in favor of our con try…
What’s the hush up on the Saudi National found running from the scene who was on the Terrorist Watch List and was set to be deported? Seems Obama must be as buddy-buddy with the Prince as Bushy. Wonder who he likes better?
Go to Mr. PC, near the state house. While you wait for them to fix your laptop, read all about Islam. Pamphlets, posters, Oh and booklets to take home. Black guys and white guys who have changed heir names to Mohammed, ect after converting. You cannot even walk in the front door. You have to be buzzed in.
Smirks, I believe that your (3) in the third paragraph is the important point. Even if (1) and (2) did not occur, locals would still hate us because of (3). Is our support of Israel going to change? I doubt it. Perhaps the “locals” heed the words of Golda Meir attributed to her when asked why they were going to pursue the perps of the Munich murders till they killed them. “So they (Arabs) will learn not to fuck with the Jews”. I guess we are somewhat easier marks.
‘lack of religion does help’. where?
Terrorism is a tactic, not an ideology. It was employed by Irish Republicans against the British. It was the calling card of Baader-Meinhof. More recently, it has been used by the Tamils in Sri Lanka in their movement for independence against the Sinhalese majority. None of these groups are Muslims.
The characteristics of those who adopt terrorism center around those with political, ethnic or religious grievances against a perceived occupier or oppressor with vastly more wealth and resources than the occupied.
It is clear that radical Islam and secular Western democracy are incompatible. I have no love for the authoritarian nature of Islam. That might be the root of their disdain for the U.S., but it does not motivate one to kill. What motivates retaliation and reaction is occupation, along with the propping up of dictatorial regimes throughout the region who summarily oppress any form of political dissent. Our CIA-led coup in Iran in 1953, the continued support for the Saudi royal family and billions in aid to strong men like Prevez Musharraf in Pakistan, Ali Abdullah Saleh in Yemen and Hosni Mubarak in Egypt are all instances of our meddling. This rightly pisses people off, especially those who already have a predisposition to dislike America because of the nature of their faith.
Post-Cold War, we have had continued presence in the Middle East, and it has been the source of almost all of our conflicts overseas. Millions of people have been killed as a result. We would certainly object to any foreign power telling the U.S. that its current governing system wasn’t up to speed, and that they must change for their own good. We would certainly defend ourselves against those occupiers, but we act shocked when others object to our meddling.
Some of the loudest decriers of terrorism have terrorist forebears. Likud basically grew out of terrorist groups, the Irgun and Stern Gangs. Almost no one wants to honestly examine the real roots of terrorism, they instead simply bleat whatever tale best serves their desires. “They hate our freedoms,” is perhaps the dumbest reasoning put forth in recent times. Being “in the active employ of Satan,” once viable, no longer passes the plausibility test outside of the baser sorts of Bible-Belter evangelicals.
Very well done sir.
Is either of those countries named Chechnya? Should we expect former natives of Japan to set off IEDs here? The tie is not countries, it is religion. If the US had “invaded” Canada do you think they would have cared? They were “Manchurian candidates” for Islam.
CNSYD –
We never fitted you for a BigT foil hat, but if it fits …
Sic Willie, I will don a foil hat if you will take a course in logic. Deal?
Religion is a catalyst for extremism, but not necessarily the root cause.
Our prolonged presence in the Middle East, as is the case with some other places, puts a strain on the locals’ tolerance of us. Japan and South Korea both have movements that are pretty strongly against the amount of presence we have there, although they tend to be quite peaceful (lack of religion does help, but mostly because the country is still our ally, is more developed and our presence doesn’t often interfere with the shit they have going on, plus we don’t kill tens or hundreds of Japanese/Korean folks in a bad drone strike).
The Middle East is especially bad because (1) most people know we are only there to promote our own country’s interests, and (2) we kill a shitload of innocent people, not to mention (3) our staunch support of Israel. Most people in the Middle East see us as a danger, as a threat, and as a country that is just using them for its own interests, and they view some of the governments willing to work with us as servants to those interests.
The religion in the area tends to lean towards extremism more quickly than others because (1) a theocracy tends to make a religion more strictly followed, naysayers be damned, and (2) because Islam has not undergone centuries of change through secularism and cultural awakenings.
However, any religion can have extremists, especially when the believers feel threatened by someone or something else. There are Sri Lankan Buddhist extremists who the Dalai Lama has denounced as not representative to the faith, and many of those extremists target Muslims.
I am generally progressive but I come down hard against Islam. It is a religion of hate. The duty of every devout Muslim man is to wage jihad. The job of Islam is to convert, subjugate, or kill infidels…like us. Go read any exegesis of Islam and Muhammad and you will see command after command to kill the infidel. These are addressed in sections of the Koran called hadiths.
These are NOT nice people. We should ban all Muslims from ever entering the USA. KICK THEM OUT NOW ! How many times will this crap keep on happening before we finally understand these bastards?
Better watch out, Tyrone: If you get caught NOT hating America, they’ll kick you out of the Liberal-Tarian Party…and FITS will suspend your posting rights…And Mace will pre-file a bill against you…
There is ZERO Tolerance for anyone denouncing Jihad in favor of our con try…
What’s the hush up on the Saudi National found running from the scene who was on the Terrorist Watch List and was set to be deported? Seems Obama must be as buddy-buddy with the Prince as Bushy. Wonder who he likes better?
Go to Mr. PC, near the state house. While you wait for them to fix your laptop, read all about Islam. Pamphlets, posters, Oh and booklets to take home. Black guys and white guys who have changed heir names to Mohammed, ect after converting. You cannot even walk in the front door. You have to be buzzed in.
Smirks, I believe that your (3) in the third paragraph is the important point. Even if (1) and (2) did not occur, locals would still hate us because of (3). Is our support of Israel going to change? I doubt it. Perhaps the “locals” heed the words of Golda Meir attributed to her when asked why they were going to pursue the perps of the Munich murders till they killed them. “So they (Arabs) will learn not to fuck with the Jews”. I guess we are somewhat easier marks.
‘lack of religion does help’. where?
Terrorism is a tactic, not an ideology. It was employed by Irish Republicans against the British. It was the calling card of Baader-Meinhof. More recently, it has been used by the Tamils in Sri Lanka in their movement for independence against the Sinhalese majority. None of these groups are Muslims.
The characteristics of those who adopt terrorism center around those with political, ethnic or religious grievances against a perceived occupier or oppressor with vastly more wealth and resources than the occupied.
It is clear that radical Islam and secular Western democracy are incompatible. I have no love for the authoritarian nature of Islam. That might be the root of their disdain for the U.S., but it does not motivate one to kill. What motivates retaliation and reaction is occupation, along with the propping up of dictatorial regimes throughout the region who summarily oppress any form of political dissent. Our CIA-led coup in Iran in 1953, the continued support for the Saudi royal family and billions in aid to strong men like Prevez Musharraf in Pakistan, Ali Abdullah Saleh in Yemen and Hosni Mubarak in Egypt are all instances of our meddling. This rightly pisses people off, especially those who already have a predisposition to dislike America because of the nature of their faith.
Post-Cold War, we have had continued presence in the Middle East, and it has been the source of almost all of our conflicts overseas. Millions of people have been killed as a result. We would certainly object to any foreign power telling the U.S. that its current governing system wasn’t up to speed, and that they must change for their own good. We would certainly defend ourselves against those occupiers, but we act shocked when others object to our meddling.
Some of the loudest decriers of terrorism have terrorist forebears. Likud basically grew out of terrorist groups, the Irgun and Stern Gangs. Almost no one wants to honestly examine the real roots of terrorism, they instead simply bleat whatever tale best serves their desires. “They hate our freedoms,” is perhaps the dumbest reasoning put forth in recent times. Being “in the active employ of Satan,” once viable, no longer passes the plausibility test outside of the baser sorts of Bible-Belter evangelicals.
Very well done sir.
LMAO: FITS has Feces ALL over his face on this one. I may be the only one to pint it out…But he’s looked stupid frrom the first minute on…
Some folks calls it poop, I calls it feces… Mmmmhmmm…
No surprise given your shit flinging, nuckle dragging ass.
LMAO: FITS has Feces ALL over his face on this one. I may be the only one to pint it out…But he’s looked stupid frrom the first minute on…
Some folks calls it poop, I calls it feces… Mmmmhmmm…
No surprise given your shit flinging, nuckle dragging ass.
That’s the next best thing to the bombings being committed by tea partiers right Will?
That’s the next best thing to the bombings being committed by tea partiers right Will?
Meanwhile: The Southern White man accused of mailing Ricin was FRAMED…
Stupid Obama Administration could not catch Islam Child-killing Terrorists (did he want to?)…Yet he’s down in Dixie arresting er’body w/ an accent he don’t approve of……
This has to be your dumbest post in a long time. It makes no sense. But if you want to play that game, How many Americans died at the hands of Terrorist on Bush’s watch?
Bush saved 10 times more than the 3,000 Clinton allowed to be killed on 9-11-01…
Remember THE WALL between the CIA and FBI to NOT allow the sharing of info. That is the KEY factor that let 9-11 happen.
Clinton, like Obama and FITS, thinks the rights of (liberal interpretation of due process for) child-killers are more important than protecting us from Islam…
Meanwhile: The Southern White man accused of mailing Ricin was FRAMED…
Stupid Obama Administration could not catch Islam Child-killing Terrorists (did he want to?)…Yet he’s down in Dixie arresting er’body w/ an accent he don’t approve of……
This has to be your dumbest post in a long time. It makes no sense. But if you want to play that game, How many Americans died at the hands of Terrorist on Bush’s watch?
Bush saved 10 times more than the 3,000 Clinton allowed to be killed on 9-11-01…
Remember THE WALL between the CIA and FBI to NOT allow the sharing of info. That is the KEY factor that let 9-11 happen.
Clinton, like Obama and FITS, thinks the rights of (liberal interpretation of due process for) child-killers are more important than protecting us from Islam…
‘American Interventionism’ is a thing of the past.We are no longer a superpower,but the US keeps trying to make things look that way…
Your ‘Why People Bomb Us’ ‘article’ reads like a mix between,National Review and The Berkeley Barb.The ‘politics’ are so fucked,you’re impossible to take seriously…
“We are no longer a superpower, but the US keeps trying to make things look that way…”
By using interventionist tactics.
‘American Interventionism’ is a thing of the past.We are no longer a superpower,but the US keeps trying to make things look that way…
Your ‘Why People Bomb Us’ ‘article’ reads like a mix between,National Review and The Berkeley Barb.The ‘politics’ are so fucked,you’re impossible to take seriously…
“We are no longer a superpower, but the US keeps trying to make things look that way…”
By using interventionist tactics.
You’re are Grover Norquist’s bitch. Not once in this piece do you mention Islam. You traitor. HE’s maneuvering this immigration thing, and you ain’t saying shit about it. And now you have officially become the mainstream media.
Seriously with the conspiracy theories again?
You’re are Grover Norquist’s bitch. Not once in this piece do you mention Islam. You traitor. HE’s maneuvering this immigration thing, and you ain’t saying shit about it. And now you have officially become the mainstream media.
Seriously with the conspiracy theories again?
Here’s what I don’t understand: We’re just supposed to believe anything and everything a terrorist tells us? Because he’s such a fine, upstanding citizen? Or because he says what you already believe? Point being that someone who tried to kill people less than a week ago might also tell a lie or two later on. Just saying.
Here’s what I don’t understand: We’re just supposed to believe anything and everything a terrorist tells us? Because he’s such a fine, upstanding citizen? Or because he says what you already believe? Point being that someone who tried to kill people less than a week ago might also tell a lie or two later on. Just saying.
“Meanwhile by way of debunking the borderline fascist suggestion ”
This is ad hominem nonsense. Unlawful combatant status dates back at least to WWII, you know, when we were fighting actual fascists rather than slandering those who disagree with a legal point. It is not some Bush era invention. And how exactly do you determine if someone is an unlawful combatant (I use that term deliberately because it is the one from Quirin and lacks the cooties Bush put on enemy combatant) if you cannot interrogate them? If you have no reason to suspect someone is an unlawful combatant, then there certainly is no basis to treat them as one a priori and start interrogating them without Miranda*. But if you have reason to believe they are waging war against the country, then there is no Constitutional prohibition on treating them as one. I am not talking about torturing him or summarily executing him. I am talking about not being obligated to tell him he can terminate the questioning at any time and is free to have a lawyer present when he is questioned. So settle down on the Nazi talk.
*Miranda is predicated on the right against self-incrimination in the 5th amendment, which expressly applies only to incrimination in a criminal trial.
I think the problem is the vagueness of the terminology that we as a society are casually accepting. We use the words “terrorists” and “terrorism” often, but what actually is a terrorist and what amounts to terrorism? If someone is fired, goes into their place of work and kills 5 co-workers, is that terrorism? It surely inflicts terror into those in the immediate community. Is that person a terrorist, or just a man who lost it and committed murder? Even so, how is that any less culpable than a U.S citizen planting a bomb to protest perceived abuses by the U.S. government? And law enforcement certainly has an advantage if the defintion of “enemy combatant” is broadened, as it could likely result in the admissibility of evidence that otherwise may have been tossed if the citizen in question were not deemed an enemy combatant. I just fear that the definition of “enemy combatant” is becoming, and will eventually become, so broad that it could be a means used by the State to circumvent the rule of law.
I think the term terrorist is irrelevant. The determination is whether someone is waging war on the US. That requires a broader military struggle and some intelligence linking a suspect (not necessarily a terrorist suspect, they could be a spy) to the larger struggle. Without it, you have to deal with them through normal criminal procedures. With it, you have a choice to make as to whether to interrogate outside the normal criminal procedures.
“And law enforcement certainly has an advantage if the defintion of “enemy combatant” is broadened, as it could likely result in the admissibility of evidence that otherwise may have been tossed if the citizen in question were not deemed an enemy combatant.”
You are confusing the issues. If Tsaernov were labeled an enemy combatant and interrogated without Miranda, any confession or evidence elicited from a US citizen could not be used in any subsequent criminal trial under the 5th Amendment. So there should be no scenario where a criminal judge is admitting tainted evidence he provided after being interrogated without Miranda (unless maybe if the public harm exception were deemed to apply, although I have thought that argument was weak from the start as it is meant to apply to questions like “where is the bomb?” intended to head off some harm rather than investigating something that has already occurred).
“Meanwhile by way of debunking the borderline fascist suggestion ”
This is ad hominem nonsense. Unlawful combatant status dates back at least to WWII, you know, when we were fighting actual fascists rather than slandering those who disagree with a legal point. It is not some Bush era invention. And how exactly do you determine if someone is an unlawful combatant (I use that term deliberately because it is the one from Quirin and lacks the cooties Bush put on enemy combatant) if you cannot interrogate them? If you have no reason to suspect someone is an unlawful combatant, then there certainly is no basis to treat them as one a priori and start interrogating them without Miranda*. But if you have reason to believe they are waging war against the country, then there is no Constitutional prohibition on treating them as one. I am not talking about torturing him or summarily executing him. I am talking about not being obligated to tell him he can terminate the questioning at any time and is free to have a lawyer present when he is questioned. So settle down on the Nazi talk.
*Miranda is predicated on the right against self-incrimination in the 5th amendment, which expressly applies only to incrimination in a criminal trial.
I think the problem is the vagueness of the terminology that we as a society are casually accepting. We use the words “terrorists” and “terrorism” often, but what actually is a terrorist and what amounts to terrorism? If someone is fired, goes into their place of work and kills 5 co-workers, is that terrorism? It surely inflicts terror into those in the immediate community. Is that person a terrorist, or just a man who lost it and committed murder? Even so, how is that any less culpable than a U.S citizen planting a bomb to protest perceived abuses by the U.S. government? And law enforcement certainly has an advantage if the defintion of “enemy combatant” is broadened, as it could likely result in the admissibility of evidence that otherwise may have been tossed if the citizen in question were not deemed an enemy combatant. I just fear that the definition of “enemy combatant” is becoming, and will eventually become, so broad that it could be a means used by the State to circumvent the rule of law.
I think the term terrorist is irrelevant. The determination is whether someone is waging war on the US. That requires a broader military struggle and some intelligence linking a suspect (not necessarily a terrorist suspect, they could be a spy) to the larger struggle. Without it, you have to deal with them through normal criminal procedures. With it, you have a choice to make as to whether to interrogate outside the normal criminal procedures.
“And law enforcement certainly has an advantage if the defintion of “enemy combatant” is broadened, as it could likely result in the admissibility of evidence that otherwise may have been tossed if the citizen in question were not deemed an enemy combatant.”
You are confusing the issues. If Tsaernov were labeled an enemy combatant and interrogated without Miranda, any confession or evidence elicited from a US citizen could not be used in any subsequent criminal trial under the 5th Amendment. So there should be no scenario where a criminal judge is admitting tainted evidence he provided after being interrogated without Miranda (unless maybe if the public harm exception were deemed to apply, although I have thought that argument was weak from the start as it is meant to apply to questions like “where is the bomb?” intended to head off some harm rather than investigating something that has already occurred).
And now I’m gonna tell you so:
Thanks to the “Public Safety Exception”to Miranda (which was created in 1980), the government is not forced tochoose between treating a suspect as an enemy combatant or immediately allowing said suspect to hide behind an attorney and the right to remain
silent. In extraordinary circumstances, when a suspect is believed to be part of a broader conspiracy that might result in the loss of innocent life, authorities have 48 hours to question the suspect before mirandizing him.
Dzokhar Tsarnaev, the man suspected of being a co-conspirator in the Boston Marathon bombings, was mirandized after only 16 hours of questioning. According to a Fox News,
FBI officials were “stunned” when federal District Court Judge Marianne Bowler arrived at the hospital and read Tsnarnaev his rights. Sources told Fox News that this premature action might have hurt the investigation.
Apparently, prior to Judge Bowler reading him his rights, Tsarnaev was cooperating with investigators. The arrival of public defenders and the Justice Department, though, compromised the interrogation and now the belief is that “valuable intelligence may have been sacrificed as a result.”
This is not the first time the Obama Administration has been criticized for its rush to award a terrorism suspect the right to remainsilent and to hide behind an attorney. On Christmas day in 2009, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (aka The Underwear Bomber), attempted to blow up a plane with plastic explosive hidden in his pants. Using the Public
Safety Exception, Abdulmutallab was interrogated — but only for 50 minutes.
After being read his rights and receiving medical care, Abdulmutallab chose to remain silent.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/25/FBI-Federal-Judge-Mirandizing-Tsarnaev-Compromised-investigation
And now I’m gonna tell you so:
Thanks to the “Public Safety Exception”to Miranda (which was created in 1980), the government is not forced tochoose between treating a suspect as an enemy combatant or immediately allowing said suspect to hide behind an attorney and the right to remain
silent. In extraordinary circumstances, when a suspect is believed to be part of a broader conspiracy that might result in the loss of innocent life, authorities have 48 hours to question the suspect before mirandizing him.
Dzokhar Tsarnaev, the man suspected of being a co-conspirator in the Boston Marathon bombings, was mirandized after only 16 hours of questioning. According to a Fox News,
FBI officials were “stunned” when federal District Court Judge Marianne Bowler arrived at the hospital and read Tsnarnaev his rights. Sources told Fox News that this premature action might have hurt the investigation.
Apparently, prior to Judge Bowler reading him his rights, Tsarnaev was cooperating with investigators. The arrival of public defenders and the Justice Department, though, compromised the interrogation and now the belief is that “valuable intelligence may have been sacrificed as a result.”
This is not the first time the Obama Administration has been criticized for its rush to award a terrorism suspect the right to remainsilent and to hide behind an attorney. On Christmas day in 2009, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (aka The Underwear Bomber), attempted to blow up a plane with plastic explosive hidden in his pants. Using the Public
Safety Exception, Abdulmutallab was interrogated — but only for 50 minutes.
After being read his rights and receiving medical care, Abdulmutallab chose to remain silent.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/25/FBI-Federal-Judge-Mirandizing-Tsarnaev-Compromised-investigation
Our own corrupt and lawless politicians are getting us killed. And that is a fact. They are all delusional wackzoids who must be removed and thrown in prison. Start with Lindsey Graham. Flush that POS down the toilet.
I wish someone who erect a huge billboard along I-95 condemning Graham for being totally rogue and corrupt. I am sick of him and McCain. I am not a democrat. I am an INDEPENDENT voter.
Our own corrupt and lawless politicians are getting us killed. And that is a fact. They are all delusional wackzoids who must be removed and thrown in prison. Start with Lindsey Graham. Flush that POS down the toilet.
I wish someone who erect a huge billboard along I-95 condemning Graham for being totally rogue and corrupt. I am sick of him and McCain. I am not a democrat. I am an INDEPENDENT voter.