Biz

Union Files Petition For Boeing Election

BIG LABOR MAKES BIG MOVE IN SOUTH CAROLINA …  || By FITSNEWS || The fight we’ve been telling you about for months is finally here … and the stakes are higher than ever. The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers – better known as the IAM – has formally…

BIG LABOR MAKES BIG MOVE IN SOUTH CAROLINA … 

|| By FITSNEWS || The fight we’ve been telling you about for months is finally here … and the stakes are higher than ever.

The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers – better known as the IAM – has formally filed a petition with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) for a union election at aircraft manufacturer Boeing’s North Charleston, S.C. facility.

In other words the crown jewel of South Carolina’s “crony capitalist” economy – one which has received more than $1 billion in taxpayer-funded subsidies – could soon fall to Big Labor.

“We’re trying to build a better life for ourselves, our families and our community,” one Boeing employee said in a statement. “We feel the best way to do this is with a collective bargaining agreement that allows us to negotiate with the company over wages, benefits, safety procedures and more.”

The push for unionization would impact an estimated 2,400 workers at the company’s much-maligned North Charleston facility – which manufactures the much-maligned 787 “Dreamliner.”  Just to file the petition, the union needed at least thirty percent of the aforementioned workforce – dubbed the “bargaining unit” – to sign cards authorizing their support for such an election.

How many did they get?  The union would only say “a significant number.”

The NLRB – no friend to right-to-work states – will likely announce election dates and polling locations in the coming weeks.

While South Carolina’s media snoozed on Boeing’s North Charleston production problems, FITS has been exposing a myriad of issues at the facility (including managerial incompetence) dating back for years.

Don’t believe us?  Read this article from November 2013 …

NIKKI HALEY
NIKKI HALEY

Similarly, we first alerted our readers to the IAM unionization push last August (and updated them on the union’s building momentum in January and February).

S.C. governor Nikki Haley – who loves to make political hay opposing unions – bashed the IAM efforts earlier this year.

“We have beaten back the IAM before,” Haley said in her 2015 State of the State address.  “I have every confidence that the Boeing workers in Charleston will see this play for exactly what it is and reject this union power grab.”

Hold up … did South Carolina really “beat back” the union once before?

No … here’s the real story on that battle.

And more to the point … is Haley’s confidence in the right-to-work leanings of Boeing employees well-placed?

That’s debatable, according to our sources on the ground – who believe the IAM is poised for victory “if not in this election, but the next one.”

“This is a siege,” one of our sources said. “This is only the beginning.”

Taking no chances, IAM specifically called Haley out in its statement about the upcoming election …

“We expect Governor Haley and her friends, who have no clue what it’s like to be a front-line production employee for Boeing, to keep their personal biases to themselves and remain neutral in the weeks leading up to the union vote,” a union spokesperson said.

***

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138 comments

Rocky March 16, 2015 at 10:57 am

Ruht – rooo

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rocky chavez March 16, 2015 at 11:36 am

South Carolina workers will turn away the union-just like they reject socialist democrat freeloaders like yourself.

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Rocky March 16, 2015 at 1:46 pm

Ruht-roo – yo fear is showing.

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unionforever March 16, 2015 at 5:51 pm

Can’t wait for doctors, nurses, PA ‘ S , and NP’ s to unionize…every hospital will be like the VA…grab a number and wait for 11 hours…what are you afraid of?

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Rocky March 16, 2015 at 9:21 pm

VW has a union. You believe VWs are sucky cars?

amencorner March 16, 2015 at 11:13 pm

Unions have historically functioned to launder monies into Democrat campaign coffers…can I get an AMEN?

Rockin' Rocky March 17, 2015 at 8:37 am

No. They launder monies into their own crony pockets.

Joe Hill March 16, 2015 at 2:47 pm

Let me see..”South Carolina workers will turn away from the opportunity to find economic security, a safe place to work, and a fair share in the corporate profits that will gain them entry and/or stability in the middle class” Yeah, they’d rather make sure that “those people” never get ahead while maintain the colonial economy in SC. You get what you demand.

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Rakkasan March 16, 2015 at 4:01 pm

BTW there Poindexter, who exactly do you think those “democrat freeloaders” are. I’m calling you out. And it may be”democratic”, not democrat.

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just another guy March 16, 2015 at 11:05 am

Once again I will ask this Will, How would this work in South Carolina? In a RTW state, you can not compel membership in a union and you can not deduct dues in wages, it must be paid separate. So they set up a Union, who joins? And if they join, do they stay in it?

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The Great Googily Moogily March 16, 2015 at 11:44 am

I believe even if you dont join the union, being a “union shop” would force payroll to charge each employee an association fee that goes to the union regardless of membership

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Hong Kong Phooey March 16, 2015 at 12:48 pm

When the Union gets voted in at Boeing(the question is not “if”, but “when”), there will surely be a SC supreme court case over it.

There are several legal issues at play, but the one IMO that will be ruled on is whether SC gov’t can interfere with contracts between the Union and Boeing.

When the Union draws up a contract that Boeing agrees to, it almost always(really-always, as far as I’m aware) is written in that Boeing will only hire Union member workers.

So in that regard, the big legal question is in that regard…even more interestingly how will they deal with the employees that join the Union after it’s installed…because feasibly SC law as it’s written would seem to protect them even though after the Union is installed and Boeing agrees to meet their terms on future hires.

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just another guy March 16, 2015 at 2:44 pm

SCOTUS ruled you can not force people to join a union and pay union dues in the Illinois Home Health Aides case. SCOSC would hang their hat on that and follow state law. Of course you have the 1977 ruling that says they can as long as it does not go to political donations (Abood v Detroit Board of Education). This could be the case the Conservatives on SCOTUS were begging for to overturn Abbod and make the entire US a right to work state. Just some thoughts.

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just another guy March 16, 2015 at 3:52 pm

Here is the South Carolina Law. It clearly states they can not deny employment bc they are not members of a Union. It is very interesting to see where this falls and if Federal law trumps South Carolina law and what SCOTUS may say on it. http://www.nrtw.org/c/scrtwlaw.htm

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:22 pm

It is my guess that in this case, Boeing is a Government contractor, therefore, federal laws may trump state laws in this case?

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The Colonel March 16, 2015 at 8:39 pm

Only on a “gubamint contract”, the Dreamliner is pure civilian market.

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:56 pm

I just looked at that, however, the other two comments are true, that was just my “guess”

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:26 pm

A couple other interesting tidbits:

“SECTION 41-7-40. Deduction of labor organization membership dues from wages.
Nothing in this chapter precludes an employer from deducting from the wages of the employees and paying over to a labor organization, or its authorized representative, membership dues in a labor organization; however, the employer must have received from each employee, on whose account the deductions are made, a written assignment which must not be irrevocable for a period of more than one year or until the termination date of any applicable collective agreement or assignment, whichever occurs sooner. After one year, the employee has the absolute right to revoke the written assignment allowing for deduction of membership dues in a labor union.

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 40-46.3; 1954 (48) 1692; 2002 Act No. 357, Section 4, eff July 26, 2002.”

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:27 pm

and this….”A Right to Work law secures the right of employees to decide for themselves whether or not to join or financially support a union. However, employees who work in the railway or airline industries are not protected by a Right to Work law, and employees who work on a federal enclave may not be. Moreover, a Right to Work law does not prohibit limitations on when a dues deduction authorization card can be revoked. Workers should carefully read the fine print before signing such a card.”

http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

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Bible Thumper March 16, 2015 at 11:15 am

The petition only involves 2400 workers. Boeing has 7500 employed in South Carolina. The IAM has to collect 30% of a valid worker bargaining units signatures within 6 months prior to to petition request. The NRA may find that the 2400 unit is too small and they don’t have a sufficient number of signatures.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/boeing-workers-iam-to-seek-union-election-in-south-carolina-2015-03-16?reflink=MW_news_stmp

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:31 pm

Yeah and their biggest gripe seems to be working too much over time, I am absolutely certain they are WELL compensated for that overtime.

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One of the 11% March 17, 2015 at 2:49 pm

I’m guessing, as usual, you have no clue what you are talking about. 7500 employees equals management, contractors, security etc.The 2400 workers are the hourly workforce who assemble the planes. That’s what the petition was filed for.

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Tangerine March 17, 2015 at 3:19 pm

Interesting, I missed this first time around. If in fact there are only 2400 employees and the rest contractors, then they have the signatures they need, because contractor are independent. I need to look up how many employees they have.

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Tangerine March 17, 2015 at 3:25 pm

According to Boeing website, they have 7,723 employees. But that includes “all subsidiaries, leaves of absence less than 90 days, full-time and part-time contingent labor. Numbers are net of additions and reductions.” http://www.boeing.com/boeing/aboutus/employment/employment_table.page

It’s a toss up, but either way, those signing a union agreement, bottom line is, if Boeing isn’t making money they are screwing themselves out of a job altogether.

Companies don’t/can’t stay in business unless they are making money.

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One of the 11% March 17, 2015 at 4:15 pm

I can’t disagree with you. Companies are in the business to make money and the workers understand that if the company isn’t making money they aren’t going to make money. From what I have heard, some people have issues with their pay (and who doesn’t) but the majority of the issues with ppl there are fairness and treatment.

I just want to add (and I applaud you for doing research because most people don’t and I enjoyed looking at that information as well) but just a FYI if you look at the WA numbers it says 80k+ employees there but only 35k in the union. So it is a pretty similar ratio of the 7k ppl at BSC to 2400 hourly.

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Tangerine March 17, 2015 at 4:47 pm

Precisely – who doesn’t (“have issues with their pay”)? I am sure at this point the people there feel they are treated unfairly. But is it fair to blame Boeing and not the people for the many problems with the Dreamliner?

It is my opinion based on experience working with prime government contractors, which is the where Boeing really makes their money (http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Top-100-Defense-Contractors-2014.html), that the employees are the ones who come up with numbers and time frames. They are the ones who develop the research, scope of work, implementation and so on…..

I don’t disagree with your numbers, unless I can find hard proof, but each state has its own laws that govern right to work, unions and even “at will.”

I am sure many Primes include contractors, because it makes their numbers look better. Just not in this case.

Bible Thumper March 17, 2015 at 6:13 pm

Fairly safe guess, but NLRB will have to approve the 2400 as a valid worker unit. Which supervisors are included etc?
If the 2400 number holds then 720 valid signatures are needed. If NLRB decides others should be included then the number is higher.

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One of the 11% March 18, 2015 at 1:10 pm

Supervisors are NOT included. The stipulation is agreed to by the company and the union with the NLRB as the mediator. NLRB has nothing to do with who is in or out…

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Bible Thumper April 8, 2015 at 9:54 am

I believe you said I didn’t know what I was talking about. That the “NLRB has nothing to do with who is in or out…”
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150401/PC05/150409949/1177/boeing-gives-iam-list-of-union-eligible-employees

snickering March 18, 2015 at 1:27 pm

Use your Fingers or an Abacus or someone on your staff who can count. You just smile pretty.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 11:31 am

Boeing move over seas please. Im tired of the bully union tactics. They are a bunch of thuggggs.

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ferguson's favorite son March 16, 2015 at 11:38 am

Yes they are…Alinski types that hate America like Muslim Obama and the ‘fat’ lady.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 11:48 am

the “fat lady”? LOL Who would that be?

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fried chicken and grits on AF1 March 16, 2015 at 11:56 am

ring the ‘belle’!

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 11:57 am

Living a healthy life is only required for the minions.

Rocky March 16, 2015 at 9:19 pm

You talking about your Mom again?

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kernals March 16, 2015 at 2:03 pm

Boeing’s union workers in Washington make $80,000 vs $50,000 in South Carolina, if this is what thugishness brings then hand me that crowbar.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 2:15 pm

Please show me those OFFICIAL numbers and please make sure it is apples to apples instead of apples to jetliners. Thanks

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 2:17 pm

Did you know when Boeing laid off 800 direct Boeing employees in Washington they laid off no direct employees in North Carolina?

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kernals March 16, 2015 at 2:41 pm

You mean South Carolina, and only you would be happy that a company is moving to a place where they can pay less.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 3:01 pm

My point is even IF they were paying more in Washington they had to get rid of people to do it which meant the ones still there would have to work harder, but of course we all know union thugggs don’t put in more effort or else management would expect that all the time. So you just made my point. You would rather they get rid of people as long as they pay them $80,000. You would rather one person work at $100,000 than have two positions at $50,000. You are a true union bully. Funny you liberals HATE bullies except when they are one of your own.

Joe Hill March 16, 2015 at 3:55 pm

You (or the “moderator”–likely to be you anyway) didn’t seem to like my previous comments so torpedoed them. So I have to ask, what are you afraid of? And, have you ever worked in a union shop or are you just a mouthpiece someone/something?

Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 4:04 pm

I have worked in hundreds of union shops as a consultant. I am in IT. I have had to sit around for HOURS waiting for union thugs to come upstairs and move a computer a couple feet before I could do my work. I have seen good businesses go out of businesses because they couldn’t compete with labor costs overseas. I live in a state that is completely run by unions in the public sector and we are going the way of Detroit. I have seen people beat up and harassed and personal property destroyed by union thugs because they decided to cross the picket line to make a living for their family.

Rocky March 16, 2015 at 9:18 pm

Eh!! Nice car you got there. Be a shame of somethin’ happened to it. NJ garbage contractors.

Rakkasan March 17, 2015 at 5:31 am

They’re thugs because the company wants contractors to limit their tasks to those specified in the contract? Or maybe it was because you had to wait? Shame. You really shouldn’t have to do that. And you should really stop making this shit up and trying to sell it

Conservative411 March 19, 2015 at 5:15 pm

NOT made up at all. I don’t need to make it up. Union thugs like yourself should be put in jail for harassment. If I harassed and threatened and beat up people for going to work I would be put in jail why does the union get away with that?

kernals March 16, 2015 at 8:12 pm

If they have half the workers then obviously they would need to work harder, or else they end up with half the production. And perhaps those wages came out of corporate profits.

FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 8:02 pm

Different airplane, different customer base, different order schedule, different factory needs, different tax structure (both state and federal), different managers.

Did that have anything to do with the aircraft workers unions? Of course it did! And it will happen again.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 2:18 pm

You pro union thugggs would rather one person make $100,000 than two people make $50,000.

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kernals March 16, 2015 at 2:40 pm

The economy is not a fixed pie buddy.

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Rakkasan March 16, 2015 at 3:34 pm

Tell that to people who are hard working but can’t seem to get very much more of the pie, despite their hard work. For them, your theory means squat

Class Warfare Is Great March 16, 2015 at 3:29 pm

And a Right Wing hack like you is only interested in how much taxes the Koch Boys pay…

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 3:34 pm

I don’t give a darn about the “Koch Boys”. None of us should pay more than we have to. Even liberals believe that…about themselves. Not one liberal ever skips an allowed deduction even though they thump their bully pulpits and scream like babies when election time rolls around and a company took advantage of a tax break that very politician gave them to begin with. GE didn’t pay any taxes for a couple years because of Obama’s tax breaks and he gave Obamacare exemptions to union thugggs like yourself while forcing everyone else into the system.

FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:59 pm

… Out here in Taxifornia Nancy Pelosi deducts her face lifts AND deducts the private Boeing jet that get her there and back.

FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:58 pm

… Uh, they pay less than George Soros? … Not!

cuvinny March 16, 2015 at 3:57 pm

Yes, because their are no unions overseas. The only place that would have the skill set to make the planes are in northern Europe and guess what, they fucking love unions.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 4:00 pm

And guess what they are all in a fiscal disaster.

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Bill March 16, 2015 at 6:27 pm

No they are not. The German economy is very strong. They are heavily unionized. They are supporting the weaker European economies. Those economies tend to have less manufacturing and and therefore fewer unions. So if you are trying to blame unions for Europe’s economic problems, the facts won’t support you. But then again I have never met a person who said he was a conservative who cared about facts.

Unions must be bad because conservatives think they are bad.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 8:09 pm

“… if you are trying to blame unions for Europe’s economic problems, the facts won’t support you. …”

OK, Shirley … and the dollar is weak against the EuroTrash.

Perfection in Imperfect World March 16, 2015 at 6:51 pm

There are many European countries doing very well for themselves, none are perfect, but plenty enough put us to shame in many regards.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 8:18 pm

Yeap! Like Switzerland and Lichtenstein and Poland and Latvia and Lithuania and Macedonia and Belarus, Albania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Ukraine and many of the other former Soviet Block countries … and Russia.

The one common thread: Most are “right-to-work” countries, most are on a Gold standard, most have flat income taxes of less than 15% … Go figure.

pfunk4ever March 23, 2015 at 7:09 pm

Umm, NO.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 8:06 pm

That is a real crock of two faced, hypocritical Shi’ite.

The Frogs have vastly greater unions, greater in membership, greater in political power, greater in union dues, greater in taxes due … And they make the Airbus … and Boeing is eating their lunch! … LOL!

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 11:51 am

If we have minimum wage and OSHA then why do we need unions?

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Bible Thumper March 16, 2015 at 12:35 pm

Unemployed people don’t receive minimum wage. Neither does Boeing employees. South Carolina exports outside of North America more autos than any state; all of Michigan including Detroit.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 12:55 pm

What do unemployed people have to do with Boeing? Boeing pays all of their employees more than min wage. Union thuggs would rather one person work for $50/hr than two people work for $25/hr each.

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Jack March 16, 2015 at 3:37 pm

So in you opinion, all employees should be paid minimum wage and be happy about it.

You have been lied to and manipulated by Republicans for so long you would not know the truth if it hit you in the face. People like you are the reason the South has remained poor and dumb and the reason the industries of the south were the first to be exported to China.

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Conservative411 March 16, 2015 at 3:59 pm

I don’t give a darn about republicans. They are just as bad as democrats. Your comments about the south are short sighted and bigoted.
.
Don’t put words into my mouth. We are not union and every single one of our employees make at least $5/hr over min wage. You union thugs lost all my respect when I was little and watched you guys harass and threaten my dad’s life because he chose to go to work and supply for HIS family. I have seen the unions destroy vehicles and property of non union workers. You guys are nothing more than organized criminals. You guys would rather a businesses go out of businesses or a city go bankrupt than to take any concessions.

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Jack Jacks Off March 16, 2015 at 6:51 pm

You’re fucked up. Go kill yourself, ok?

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Show Us How March 16, 2015 at 6:53 pm

Can you demonstrate for us?

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 6:59 pm

Based on what I have read, Boeing employees make about 4% above market average when compared to other similar companies. They have great benefits – check out their page. I am not sure why the machinist feel they need a union?

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The Colonel March 16, 2015 at 2:08 pm

“We expect Governor Haley and her friends, who have no clue what it’s like to be a front-line production employee for Boeing, to keep their personal biases to themselves and remain neutral in the weeks leading up to the union vote,” a union spokesperson said.”

Holy Toledo what a bunch of hypocritical hacks. Most of the “leadership” haven’t turned a wrench in years and the fact that they nothing about nothing has never stopped them from opining on subjects from education to healthcare.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:52 pm

Most of the posters here have not turned a wrench, either.

Riddle me this: What exactly does a flush pop rivet look like?

(The idea seems to be that workers at Boeing are simple plug-n-play parts of a factory machine.)

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Fits Ain't No Republican March 16, 2015 at 3:32 pm

I don’t have any strong opinion on this issue,however, watching Fits and the other Republicans(no quotation marks please)go bonkers is the most amusing aspect of the whole thing.

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Rocky CLU (Cons. Lib Union) March 16, 2015 at 3:48 pm

“MADE WITH PRIDE BY UNIONIZED SOUTH CAROLINA WORKERS” – “who moved here from Illinios, Washington, Michigan and Ohio because the average South Carolina employee was too stupid to pass the screening interview.”

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Shut Down N. Chas Plant March 16, 2015 at 6:48 pm

Most SC residents were NOT even born in SC. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH .. .You dumbass fucktard union twit. Fuck you. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!

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Rocky March 16, 2015 at 9:17 pm

Now you makin’ me laugh too.

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 9:18 pm

But we did have children here ;)

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Gommer March 17, 2015 at 8:14 am

Nikki, dat you?

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cuvinny March 16, 2015 at 3:55 pm

Never understood libertarian’s hate of unions, its a private contracts between the employer and the works, thought libertarians loved private contracts. Guess that makes Folks a “Libertarian.”

Anyways, Boeing knows it is going to pass. I’ve gotten like 3 or 4 opinion polls from them asking how I view the company and their local anti-union marketing campaign.

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Rakkasan March 16, 2015 at 3:57 pm

Because on this site, “libertarian” is just a cover for corporate shill

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:29 pm

FARC You!

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Jack March 16, 2015 at 4:04 pm

Because the right wing of the Republican party is controlled by billionaires and international corporations who have a vested interest keeping American workers in their place. They have lied to and duped their base for so long they actually enjoy eating the swill they are fed.

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Your Fiendly Neighborhood Exec March 16, 2015 at 6:42 pm

We ship jobs overseas because the workers in other countries are so desperate they do not put up a fuss making the chicken scratch we pay them. Americans need to learn their place. We own you. Stop resisting and obey.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:28 pm

The going wages in China for factory workers is now running ahead of the USA. The going wages in Taiwan are even higher. The going wages in Korea are higher still. Singapore too. Mexico now has a better unemployment rate than the USA and wages there are rising faster than Obama’s ratings.

That old saw need sharpening.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:25 pm

… then you should join another party or register as independent.

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Karadion March 16, 2015 at 4:08 pm

Personal polls?

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cuvinny March 17, 2015 at 1:36 am

Google Opinion Polls. Boeing has been paying google to poll Charleston residents. Pops up on my phone and pays like a buck each for 30 secs of time.

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Karadion March 17, 2015 at 1:39 am

Do you have a citation to go with that? Anecdotal statement is not proof.

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cuvinny March 17, 2015 at 1:45 am

Nope, didn’t think to take a screenshot of my phone. They have been about 4 questions long and ask about my view on Boeing, if I’ve seen the anti union ads and where and my view on the upcoming vote.

Karadion March 17, 2015 at 1:46 am

Then you’re going by polls conducted by other parties, not Boeing. You have no citation for your claim. The billboard company that rents out to customers are typically the ones doing the surveys. Then they formulate how effective the ads are and try to assess how much to charge their customers.

Bingo! March 16, 2015 at 6:52 pm

“Never understood libertarian’s hate of unions, its a private contracts
between the employer and the works, thought libertarians loved private
contracts.”

You are correct to point this out. “libertarians” should have no problem with this(and most don’t), “Libertarians” with a capital “L”, mostly do, because C(St)ato is nothing more than a lap dog to the GOP and ass sniffer of DC power…which is why they have a lobbying arm in the DC area.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:30 pm

FARC You Too!

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Bingo! March 17, 2015 at 8:43 am

Right back at ya.

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:17 pm

I never understood some folks assumptions that Libertarians were anti-union.

If one were to seriously research “classic liberalism” one would discover that the original Libertarians were and are simply anti-big, excessive government.

I suppose that one might fall for the Gruberment lines easily enough.

I have been a registered Libertarian voting in Taxifornia elections as such since 1984. I am also a current and past member of several trade unions. Many of fellow Libertarians here in north Taxifornia, ditto.

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Native Ink March 16, 2015 at 11:09 pm

A Libertarian used to be a hippy who just wanted to grow pot in the middle of the woods and not be forced to fight in Vietnam. Now Libertarians are guys who just don’t want to pay taxes or abide by any government regulations. Big Business noticed how nice that sounded for them, so now they’re happily distorting the always nebulous Libertarian identity to their own ends.

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Tick Tock March 17, 2015 at 8:38 am

“so now they’re happily distorting the always nebulous Libertarian identity ”

Libertarian is nebulous, yes, libertarian(or classically liberal), no. It’s very simple actually, it’s the non-aggression principle reinforced by private property/contract rights.

Applying that standard sometimes requires thought in order to remain consistent, but the ideal is very simple and very clear.

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snickering March 16, 2015 at 4:48 pm

Where do I sign?

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:49 pm

You are not deaf yet, are you?

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snickering March 17, 2015 at 4:55 am

Is that Dead or Deaf. I am neither. But what am I clinging too?

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whirleybird March 16, 2015 at 5:40 pm

Can’t wait for doctors and nurses to unionize…think your medical costs are high now? Just wait…you betcha medical costs are gonna soar!

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:47 pm

That’s the way of it in Taxifornia.

An interesting turn of events in Taxifornia is that the organized doctors and unionized nurses are almost unanimous in their dislike of BummerCare.

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putoloco March 16, 2015 at 9:08 pm

Is that because there are no doctors to certify the death certificates until the strikes are over?

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Yay 4 Collective Bargaining March 16, 2015 at 6:40 pm

People fighting for fair compensation is something we should all support! Cheer for the little guy!

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:37 pm

Agreed!

However: 1) there is no need to fight about it, this has already been settled. 2) cheering for “the little guy” is fine as long as he is big enough to see over the counter at the bank window. 3) “fair compensation” is determined by free market forces, not at the poker table in the back room or in the ho-house in DC.

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Rakkasan March 17, 2015 at 3:07 am

“Free market forces” would be true–in a vacuum. When you put the concept in the real world of political and social forces in the marketplace, it becomes nothing more than a concept or ideal.

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Union Wants The Money March 16, 2015 at 6:46 pm

Boeing can just pack up and move to another state and shut the plant down in North Charleston. All of those workers, if they vote for a union, then they lose their jobs … HAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA!!!!!

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FastEddy23 March 16, 2015 at 7:40 pm

Not easily. Besides the money Boeing has already invested, there are some decent subsidies already spent by SC and the counties and cities involved.

Boeing would not abandon any of that, at least not immediately.

The one single thing everyone on this blog seems to be overlooking: The Washington state aircraft union(s) do not have enough skilled workers available in the Carolinas to fulfill Boeings needs.

All of this shouting and arm waving is really from folks outside of the South hoping to move to SC and steal your local jobs.

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Chucktown Buck March 16, 2015 at 8:08 pm

They can’t run forever, no way Boeing will build planes in Mexico. Too many upper executive and college educated snobs, won’t live there. Plus, the “Made in Mexico” isn’t a good look for Boeing.

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Rocky March 17, 2015 at 8:38 am

Multi-billion plants generally are not picked up and just moved over a few states to the next group of dumb under-educated labor pools that have to be augemented with non-resident employees. Get it.

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Union Wants The Money March 16, 2015 at 6:50 pm

Piss off the Union and form a SEPARATE NEW UNION for Boeing North Charleston that is totally INDEPENDENT from the Unions in Washington State.

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 7:17 pm

“Is it because they want your money to make their business more viable and to give them back the power they’ve been losing?

Yes! Because according to 2013 data, IAM membership has been on a steady decline for the past 12 years. In that period, the IAM lost more than 100,000 members and more than $79 million in assets; however, costs per member increased by more than 50 percent per year, which means they’re trying to rebuild their bank accounts by digging deeper in their members’ pockets.

Is it because they want to win, at any cost, in the highly-publicized battle of establishing a stronger union foothold in South Carolina?

Yes! Because wouldn’t that surely be a feather in the caps, and likely more money in the pockets, of any union boss who is successful in that attempt! There’s been a lot of news about the significant aerospace growth in the South, and the union, being a big business, just wants to get in on the action so they can make more money. Again, more members means more dues which equals more money for the union.

Consider carefully the IAM’s motives. Boeing has been consistent in fighting for our teammates’ interests over the past five years. While there are things that we need to improve as we grow, we’ve already come a long way – together, without a union.”

http://weareboeingsc.com/issues/iam-want-organize-boeing-south-carolina/

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Chucktown Buck March 16, 2015 at 8:21 pm

Snitch

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:28 pm

LOLOL

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Kelly March 16, 2015 at 7:35 pm

I have been in and out of Boeing a hundred times as a contractor. I always talk to workers, and this Union vote will go well for the Unions. Why, because Boeing made 2 mistakes;

1. They hired two many Blacks.. Blacks vote disproportionately for Unions.
2. Boeing hired too many Unionized outside contractors. Mostly from out of state, the security force, etc was full time talking to the workers.

Boeing has screwed this up (from their point of view). It does not bother me one way or the other.

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Emily Peterkin March 16, 2015 at 7:37 pm

They hired “two” blacks? I’ll tell the union…

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Chucktown Buck March 16, 2015 at 8:17 pm

You ignore hick!!! “two many black” No wonder you aren’t a blue badge yet, ha ha.

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Kelly March 17, 2015 at 3:16 pm

ChuckTown

1. A small spelling error and you somehow go off on that? Feel insignificant much? Need to prop up a failing ego?
2. Blacks have always voted for the union. Look it up.
3. I make almost half a million bucks a year. A badge or union job? Haha

be trailer part trash somewhere else, and on your own time.

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Chucktown Buck March 17, 2015 at 5:40 pm

Too many blacks? Well, most of them are right here in Chucktown. Never left here and have nothing more than a high school diploma or GED. Not to mention, that is all at the SC education standards, my kids said learn the stuff they are teaching now 3 years ago. And, these Goose Creek kids aren’t mastering it. Most of these blacks have never been in a union, like almost every white person from Chucktown. But, most of whites are anti-union, anti-obama and anti-equality, so I see why you might have a point. If someone white from SC was telling the union is bad for me, I think I would probably vote for it too.

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Tangerine March 17, 2015 at 5:56 pm

I am white and a female. Want to talk discrimination? Or Throw down some race card? Well, I think white females are most discriminated against, but that is my personal opinion. It doesn’t hold me back.

There is only one case that comes to mind where I can agree with a union, and I am sure there are others I “might” agree with.

Look at the coal mining industry. We do have UMWA and there is a reason, the coal mining industry is dangerous. Don’t believe me, just look at the “casualties” in China vs. US. The reason I support a union in this particular industry is for safety, not wages.

Chucktown Buck March 18, 2015 at 7:54 am

SC is the worse state for women, especially if are black and a single parent. I have lived in 10 different states and 5 countries in my lifetime, this is by far the worse place I have lived. The standard of living ranks somewhere between Haiti and Mississippi, the dumbest civil engineers and city planners on the face of the earth designed the layout for Charleston and Columbia. So, for the blacks to join the union, especially all those single black mothers that currently work at Boeing being paid $15-10 less than their Washington state counterparts, it’s makes perfect sense. Unless, Kelly willing to pitch in and help them out, since making more than he/she knows what do with (and still finds time to volunteer at Boeing as contractor for the chump change they pay these poor folks).

pfunk4ever March 23, 2015 at 7:03 pm

‘Hired “too” many Blacks….vote disproportionately for Unions”, NOW that’s a WAG with nothing to back it up but you’re entitled to your own opinion.

WOW..where’s your data Kelly?? I’ll be glad to take a look at it.

Very dumb statement… like saying Serial killers and home grown terrorists are all white men. its just stupid to think that way. I think you need to have a chat with some “real” black people rather than the media “hype” of them.

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Chucktown Buck March 16, 2015 at 8:39 pm

Boeing BA  CEO James McNerney received compensation valued at $23.5 million in 2014, virtually unchanged from 2013’s $23.2 million pay package, the aerospace giant said Friday.

McNerney’s salary was $1.93 million, unchanged since 2008, Boeing said in its annual proxy.

The value of his stock award jumped to $6.2 million from $3.7 million in 2013  His incentive award rose to $14.5 million from $12.9 million, largely on a $10 million payout based on 2012-2014 performance.

McNerney gained another $6.6 million from previously awarded shares that vested and another $209,000 exercising stock options.

The 65-year-old former General Electric GEexecutive has been Boeing’s chief executive since July 2005.

Boeing’s annual revenue rose 5% to a record $90.8 billion and net income climbed 19% to $5.4 billion. But the stock hit headwinds, falling 4.8% in 2014.

Year-to-date, Boeing shares are up 16.4%.

I think Boeing can afford it, they well last year.

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 8:46 pm

Whether they can afford it and if they want to buy it are to entirely different things. I could afford a new vehicle, but I still drive a 2006 because it only has 76k miles and there is nothing wrong with it.

There is growing sense of entitlement in America, that is what is destroying education, jobs, and even healthcare.

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Chucktown Buck March 17, 2015 at 3:16 am

You don’t have to join the union, my manager got a $16K MIP bonus check 12% of his salary last week and he also gets a pension when he retires, why does he deserve more security than me? I got a measly $2K with the P4P, I guess I can eat this week. Your car is good now, what about when you’re too old to work? Or are you planning to work yourself into a early grave like most people in SC?

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Tangerine March 17, 2015 at 10:40 am

Chuck, your comment originates based on how much Boeing as a company makes, not how much the Charleston Branch is making. The Charleston Branch will likely be rewarded based on what they contribute and it is well noted they have had some issues with the Dreamliner.

“This group (the union organizers) is asking us to sit still while it sells our men the jobs that have always been free.” – Henry Ford

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Chucktown Buck March 18, 2015 at 10:18 am

Henry Ford never liked an idea he didn’t steal. Ironic, I worked for the Ford Motor Company for a few years, I like how you non-union experienced quote and throw things around, you know nothing about. That explains a lot about messing this state operates, the blind leading the blind. The Aft and Mid-Body is built in Charleston, the are sent to Washington. They are using at least 75% of the Dreamliner assembly from Charleston in Washington, so what’s your point?

Bible Thumper March 16, 2015 at 8:59 pm

Correction: Year-to-date, Boeing shares are up 18.23%. Boeing is the best performing stock year to date of the 30 members of the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

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Tangerine March 16, 2015 at 9:09 pm

Boeing is a top defense contractor, most of their revenues I would imagine come from defense sector vs. commercial sector. As I read on wiki and the Colonel pointed out, the Dreamliner is a commercial airliner.

I am trying to find a source to validate that, but I know in the past the majority of their reported revenues are Defense, not Commercial.

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pfunk4ever March 23, 2015 at 6:52 pm

That has changed..

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Mike at the Beach March 16, 2015 at 9:29 pm

So, the union says “a significant number” signed cards? That would translate to “barely broke the required 30% or we would be crowing about it right now.” Much like (at one point in the Senate race) TR’s characterization of breaking 7% as “increasing momemtum.”

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Native Ink March 16, 2015 at 10:57 pm

Having worked both union and non-union jobs (real life experience that most union bashers here don’t have), I’d say to Boeing workers: Vote for the union. Nothing’s perfect in the blue collar world, but a union job is a hundred times more fair to you than a non-union job.

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idcydm March 17, 2015 at 7:24 am

FTU

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former shop steward March 17, 2015 at 9:35 am

Same IAM that turned its back on Navy Shipyard workers it represented during BRAC, non?

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makeyourcase.org March 17, 2015 at 11:26 pm

But what about the idea that right-to-work actually strengthens unions, because they would have to win people over at http://makeyourcase.org/topic/everyone-should-have-the-right-to-work-without-joining-a-union and other debates, and could no longer rely on the government forcing people to join unions? Wouldn’t that change the picture for the fat cat union bosses who get rich off the little guy?

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Tangerine March 17, 2015 at 11:52 pm

I haven’t read the article, so my experience is solely based on that – experience.

There is a difference in Right To Work v. At Will employment.

Ok – for sake of conversation, let me read your article before I totally make a fool of self. BRB

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Tangerine March 18, 2015 at 12:04 am

I question the source, but it doesn’t differ much from what I already have prior knowledge of.

Unions do not strengthen or even empower the people. I could spend hours, which I have, debating this issue.

Here is IMHO the real deal for companies in SC who not only want right-to-work, but also the ability to fire employs who have some sense of superior knowledge, but lag in performance.

Draft an employee hand book, make sure in big bold letters that every page has includes the words “at will” and have said employee sign. You might want to hire an attorney, or look for boiler plate – I suggest attorney but they are expensive.

Employees can sue a company for wrongful firing, even in a right-to-work state, IF there is any sort of implied contract. For example, progressive counseling indicates that if the employee meets said goals, even is said employ fails to meet job description, you can’t fire them. They get better in one area, minimally meet goals, but lapse in areas of main responsibilities. By documenting it (a plan to fix said problems), in SC, you have give up your right to fire at will.

Not only have you given up your right to fire a horrible employee, you risk being sued. The higher the salary, the more likely an atty will take your case – it is percentage based.

Now this info is at least 4 years old, but likely still the case unless legislation has changed, which is highly unlikely, but worth looking into if I were an employee.

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