We don’t wear our faith on our sleeves here at FITS, but we believe firmly in protecting the rights of those who do (assuming they aren’t hypocritical politicians trying to spend our tax dollars on their sanctimonious moralizing).
Just as religion should have no place in government – and more importantly, vice versa – individual citizens should never be restricted from making a public profession of their faith whenever and however they choose.
Take Roy Costner IV, the valedictorian of South Carolina’s Liberty High School. Last week, Coster defied the censors at his government-run high school by tearing up his prepared remarks to his fellow students and reciting the Lord’s Prayer from the podium.
Take a look …
(Click to play)
The argument against this sort of display is that Costner’s recantation is somehow “forcing his religion” on others. Yeah … to that we can only say “others” probably should have worked a little bit harder to become valedictorian – at which point they would have been able to say whatever they wanted from the podium.
We don’t believe government entities should sponsor official prayers, but Costner isn’t a government employee acting in an official capacity – he’s a private citizen exercising his First Amendment right. Whatever religion he choose to profess, no one should take away his right to profess it.
Good for him … and shame on those who tried to censor him a priori as well as those who criticized him after the fact.
This has nothing to do with religion and everything with the right to free expression … something that ought to be on the forefront of all of our minds in the wake of recent revelations.
What do you think? Vote in our poll and post your thoughts in our comments section below …
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88 comments
Where’s T. I told you. Just try talking and quit with all that $ %&(^)&%% %#@ %
Have a Great Day!!
Frank: — too much caffeine this morning?
Where’s T. I told you. Just try talking and quit with all that $ %&(^)&%% %#@ %
Have a Great Day!!
Frank: — too much caffeine this morning?
You said it: “sanctimonious moralizing.”
You said it: “sanctimonious moralizing.”
Wait until the Muslim valedictorian does this.
My thoughts exactly….it’s all fine and wonderful as long as it’s the RIGHT religion.
My mother, a former public school teacher, and I had this fight all the time. She was all about some prayer in school, and I just said, wait until you are asked to lead a Muslim prayer and get back with me about prayer in school. Of course, she replied that was never going to happen. I said, to you, no. To your grand kids or your great grand kids…hell yes it stands a real chance of happening so you might want to knock it off.
Jesus hates Muslim’s and wants us to kill them.
I’m not sure I’ve read that verse but I do remember these suras from the Koran or Quran or however you spell it:
(3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.
(8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”
(2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
You make a valid point. Not that government should interfere in an instance like this, but public opinion will surely change.
Wait until the Muslim valedictorian does this.
My thoughts exactly….it’s all fine and wonderful as long as it’s the RIGHT religion.
My mother, a former public school teacher, and I had this fight all the time. She was all about some prayer in school, and I just said, wait until you are asked to lead a Muslim prayer and get back with me about prayer in school. Of course, she replied that was never going to happen. I said, to you, no. To your grand kids or your great grand kids…hell yes it stands a real chance of happening so you might want to knock it off.
Jesus hates Muslim’s and wants us to kill them.
I’m not sure I’ve read that verse but I do remember these suras from the Koran or Quran or however you spell it:
(3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”.
(8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”
(2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
You make a valid point. Not that government should interfere in an instance like this, but public opinion will surely change.
at which point they would have been able to say whatever they wanted from the podium.
Yeah, I’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on that one. The moment someone starts quoting from the Book of Mormon, the Watchtower, the Quran, or a book on atheism is where most people who insist on this kind of shit suddenly withdraw support. It’s the same deal with sending public funds to religious private schools, where proponents are more than happy to fund Jeebus schools but are perturbed when other religions could possibly get some of the funds too. It’s the same deal with prayer in schools, but of course, “only if it is a pastor from my denomination.” It is the same deal with “I Believe” license plates, when public officials state publicly and quite clearly that they wouldn’t support similar plates for other religions. It is the same deal where the Ten Commandments can be posted in a courthouse but the same people freak out when they confuse a janitor’s mop sink for a Muslim foot-washing station. It is the same deal when people bitch that the government doesn’t recognize Christmas enough with Christmas (not Holiday) trees and nativity scenes in front of schools and public buildings, but would absolutely pop a blood vessel at the mere mention of any other religion’s holidays.
The school obviously has a right to limit what this guy can say. His academic merit has not earned him a segment where he can simply talk about whatever the hell he wants. He can’t go into a profanity-laced tirade. He can’t complain about the school or the people who work there. There is a very limited purpose for the speech in question, and the school does indeed have a right to limit the bounds of that speech. Furthermore, that person represents the school during this speech, as well as all of the students in their graduating class. I’m sure it is very awkward to be a student of one religion and have a valedictorian give a speech where he recites a prayer or verse from another religion.
If it isn’t going to be fair to everyone, where any religion (or lack thereof) is allowed, then it should be fair to everyone in that no religion is allowed. Pick one or the other.
Bravo Smirks, you are right on as usual. Thanks for an intelligent post.
Had this guy read from the Koran, we’d have written precisely the same post.
Probably not Sic.
http://www.neola.com/dearborn-mi/ Search Prayer. Last updated 1990
Written April 4, 2013
http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=Community&article=6610
http://rt.com/usa/muslim-prayer-us-schools-060/
I couldn’t find many, and none that were 100% exactly the same, but it will come. You know it will Sic.
Maybe you would have written the same post,but Fox News and the people who worship at the Fox,Limbaugh,and Beck alter would have crucified him.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, I just know that a lot of the people who support this kind of thing only support it under their own beliefs, not the beliefs of others. I’m willing to bet the crowd would have become a bit unruly given the right kind of “unapproved” religion.
I believe you I really do and I agree. As a side note, if you’ve ever spent much time in Pickens County you might agree that rather than applauding, those hillbillies would have stormed the stage and quite possibly lynched the speaker.
Smirks is the voice of reason here on FN. I agree 100% with everything he said… And after following this site for awhile now, I will agree with Will that he would likely post the same thing regardless of religion.
That being said, the comments section would be completely different and most posts would be an uproar. It’s the hypocrisy of Christians in the Bible Belt that gets my blood boiling. Their religion is OK and it’s OK to be proud about it but when it comes to any other beliefs, they don’t have the same attitude. And the Christians would be all over this comments section, social media, the news, etc. if this guy had quoted the Koran. Just sayin’…
No No. You’re thinking of 9 am christians. Not Christians
the least tolerant person is a tolerant person.
Bullshit.
AND no one in the crowd, even the graduates are required to stay and listen to the guys speech. They are all free to get up and leave in protest.
at which point they would have been able to say whatever they wanted from the podium.
Yeah, I’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on that one. The moment someone starts quoting from the Book of Mormon, the Watchtower, the Quran, or a book on atheism is where most people who insist on this kind of shit suddenly withdraw support. It’s the same deal with sending public funds to religious private schools, where proponents are more than happy to fund Jeebus schools but are perturbed when other religions could possibly get some of the funds too. It’s the same deal with prayer in schools, but of course, “only if it is a pastor from my denomination.” It is the same deal with “I Believe” license plates, when public officials state publicly and quite clearly that they wouldn’t support similar plates for other religions. It is the same deal where the Ten Commandments can be posted in a courthouse but the same people freak out when they confuse a janitor’s mop sink for a Muslim foot-washing station. It is the same deal when people bitch that the government doesn’t recognize Christmas enough with Christmas (not Holiday) trees and nativity scenes in front of schools and public buildings, but would absolutely pop a blood vessel at the mere mention of any other religion’s holidays.
The school obviously has a right to limit what this guy can say. His academic merit has not earned him a segment where he can simply talk about whatever the hell he wants. He can’t go into a profanity-laced tirade. He can’t complain about the school or the people who work there. There is a very limited purpose for the speech in question, and the school does indeed have a right to limit the bounds of that speech. Furthermore, that person represents the school during this speech, as well as all of the students in their graduating class. I’m sure it is very awkward to be a student of one religion and have a valedictorian give a speech where he recites a prayer or verse from another religion.
If it isn’t going to be fair to everyone, where any religion (or lack thereof) is allowed, then it should be fair to everyone in that no religion is allowed. Pick one or the other.
Bravo Smirks, you are right on as usual. Thanks for an intelligent post.
Had this guy read from the Koran, we’d have written precisely the same post.
Probably not Sic.
http://www.neola.com/dearborn-mi/ Search Prayer. Last updated 1990
Written April 4, 2013
http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=Community&article=6610
http://rt.com/usa/muslim-prayer-us-schools-060/
I couldn’t find many, and none that were 100% exactly the same, but it will come. You know it will Sic.
Maybe you would have written the same post,but Fox News and the people who worship at the Fox,Limbaugh,and Beck alter would have crucified him.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, I just know that a lot of the people who support this kind of thing only support it under their own beliefs, not the beliefs of others. I’m willing to bet the crowd would have become a bit unruly given the right kind of “unapproved” religion.
I believe you I really do and I agree. As a side note, if you’ve ever spent much time in Pickens County you might agree that rather than applauding, those hillbillies would have stormed the stage and quite possibly lynched the speaker.
Smirks is the voice of reason here on FN. I agree 100% with everything he said… And after following this site for awhile now, I will agree with Will that he would likely post the same thing regardless of religion.
That being said, the comments section would be completely different and most posts would be an uproar. It’s the hypocrisy of Christians in the Bible Belt that gets my blood boiling. Their religion is OK and it’s OK to be proud about it but when it comes to any other beliefs, they don’t have the same attitude. And the Christians would be all over this comments section, social media, the news, etc. if this guy had quoted the Koran. Just sayin’…
No No. You’re thinking of 9 am christians. Not Christians
the least tolerant person is a tolerant person.
Bullshit.
AND no one in the crowd, even the graduates are required to stay and listen to the guys speech. They are all free to get up and leave in protest.
Everyone’s religion is like a dick. It’s perfectly cool to play with it at home, but don’t whip that shit out in public. It’s just awkward.
Everyone’s religion is like a dick. It’s perfectly cool to play with it at home, but don’t whip that shit out in public. It’s just awkward.
I heard, the kid didn’t tear up his speech. He tore up the speech he was given after his original speech was rejected.
I heard, the kid didn’t tear up his speech. He tore up the speech he was given after his original speech was rejected.
Didn’t say a lot for the valedictorian’s “faith” that he had to read it. If you think you are
doing more than Grandstanding at least show why.It’s the least you can do. Oh
Liberty! Maybe as valedictorian he was showing off that he could read !
Just 3 min. of fame….like an egg.
Didn’t say a lot for the valedictorian’s “faith” that he had to read it. If you think you are
doing more than Grandstanding at least show why.It’s the least you can do. Oh
Liberty! Maybe as valedictorian he was showing off that he could read !
Just 3 min. of fame….like an egg.
Maybe next year some can do a prayer in hebrew, hindu or muslim.
Maybe next year some can do a prayer in hebrew, hindu or muslim.
While he demonstrates that he has memorized the Lord’s Prayer (did he forgive the “debtors” or the “trespassers”?) he showed no evidence of having read Matthew 6:5-6.
While he demonstrates that he has memorized the Lord’s Prayer (did he forgive the “debtors” or the “trespassers”?) he showed no evidence of having read Matthew 6:5-6.
His actions have always been legal. Nothing to see here, move along.
His actions have always been legal. Nothing to see here, move along.
just the point, HE WASN’T ALLOWED, HE DIDN’T HAVE TO BE ALLOWED, THEY COULDN’T STOP HIM. However, they promptly admitted they had pre-approved his original speech but he showed them who the EL JEFE was. Rights are rights motherfuckers, rights are rights.
just the point, HE WASN’T ALLOWED, HE DIDN’T HAVE TO BE ALLOWED, THEY COULDN’T STOP HIM. However, they promptly admitted they had pre-approved his original speech but he showed them who the EL JEFE was. Rights are rights motherfuckers, rights are rights.
Mark my words, in the very near future all student remarks will be pre-recorded and played over a big screen. The taxpayers will fund it, a senators son’s company will have the contract to provide the tech, and the 1st amendment will continue to be diluted.
Mark my words, in the very near future all student remarks will be pre-recorded and played over a big screen. The taxpayers will fund it, a senators son’s company will have the contract to provide the tech, and the 1st amendment will continue to be diluted.
People still believing in fairy tales?
People still believing in fairy tales?
Oh my, what good little christian boy. Maybe he can get an internship with lil jeffy Duncan in DC. Pray to Jesus Amen!!!!!!!!!
Oh my, what good little christian boy. Maybe he can get an internship with lil jeffy Duncan in DC. Pray to Jesus Amen!!!!!!!!!
Is Big T/Grand Tango on vacation? His comments on this would be worth the price of admission. . . . (i.e. $0.00).
Is Big T/Grand Tango on vacation? His comments on this would be worth the price of admission. . . . (i.e. $0.00).
To hell with that sanctimonious little twit.
Though I’m sure the Lord’s Prayer was better than whatever speech he planned to give.
Goddamn, Disqus finds new ways to suck EVERY DAY.
Jesus.
Are you having a problem with Disqus?
To hell with that sanctimonious little twit.
Though I’m sure the Lord’s Prayer was better than whatever speech he planned to give.
Goddamn, Disqus finds new ways to suck EVERY DAY.
Jesus.
Are you having a problem with Disqus?
As valedictorian, this kid should have realized the hypocrisy of his statement. I am sorry we are not teaching critical thinking to these kids. Separation of church and state is at the heart of our democracy and injecting religion into secular activities is unconstitutional. The kid may be valedictorian but he flunked American history. What a jerk!
As valedictorian, this kid should have realized the hypocrisy of his statement. I am sorry we are not teaching critical thinking to these kids. Separation of church and state is at the heart of our democracy and injecting religion into secular activities is unconstitutional. The kid may be valedictorian but he flunked American history. What a jerk!
I knew it. 24 hours later and T is no where to be seen after FITS carries a story T wanted to see up here.
He’s a fracking HufPo plant. Hence the constant references to him being a ‘serious journalist’.
What a joke.
I knew it. 24 hours later and T is no where to be seen after FITS carries a story T wanted to see up here.
He’s a fracking HufPo plant. Hence the constant references to him being a ‘serious journalist’.
What a joke.
We used to BELIEVE ” IN GOD WE TRUST” but now it appears if we do we are at risk of being tarred and feathered for offending someone……guess freedom of speech no longer exist either so WAKE UP!! America…….are we still the USA???????
We used to BELIEVE ” IN GOD WE TRUST” but now it appears if we do we are at risk of being tarred and feathered for offending someone……guess freedom of speech no longer exist either so WAKE UP!! America…….are we still the USA???????
Is delivering the valedictory address a right or an honor? I’m leaning toward honor and I personally think that the kid acted like a bit of a jerk by going off script.
Is delivering the valedictory address a right or an honor? I’m leaning toward honor and I personally think that the kid acted like a bit of a jerk by going off script.
This guy did not stick it to anybody or stand up for any thing. Standing up for something requires risk. They were in Liberty, SC, population 3265, in a high school gym deep in the most conservative section of the most conservative state in the Bible belt, for god sakes.
In the end, this kid did something he knew would be very popular and nothing more. Now if he had started quoting passages from the Koran, that would have been standing up for free speech.
“If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought – not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” Oliver Wendell Holmes, Activist Judge.
This guy did not stick it to anybody or stand up for any thing. Standing up for something requires risk. They were in Liberty, SC, population 3265, in a high school gym deep in the most conservative section of the most conservative state in the Bible belt, for god sakes.
In the end, this kid did something he knew would be very popular and nothing more. Now if he had started quoting passages from the Koran, that would have been standing up for free speech.
“If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought – not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” Oliver Wendell Holmes, Activist Judge.
“For society to function well, there have to be basic levels of trust and cooperation, a respect for institutions and deference to common procedures. By deciding to unilaterally …….. has betrayed all of these things.
He betrayed honesty and integrity, the foundation of all cooperative activity. He made explicit and implicit oaths to respect … He betrayed his oaths.
He betrayed his friends. Young people in positions like that will no longer be trusted with responsibility for fear that they will turn into another ….”
OOPS!
Sorry.
That was David Brooks talking about Edward Snowden.
My bad…….
WTF, HTML?
“For society to function well, there have to be basic levels of trust and cooperation, a respect for institutions and deference to common procedures. By deciding to unilaterally …….. has betrayed all of these things.
He betrayed honesty and integrity, the foundation of all cooperative activity. He made explicit and implicit oaths to respect … He betrayed his oaths.
He betrayed his friends. Young people in positions like that will no longer be trusted with responsibility for fear that they will turn into another ….”
OOPS!
Sorry.
That was David Brooks talking about Edward Snowden.
My bad…….
WTF, HTML?
Sounds like a Toby Keith concert.Ya’ll go,honky bastard redneck motherfuckers.
Sounds like a Toby Keith concert.Ya’ll go,honky bastard redneck motherfuckers.
Do we still have freedom of speech in the USA…..it appears we have to be very careful now days of what we say or what we may believe for fear of offending someone so why is this? I believe in GOD and not afraid to say so, how about you?
Do we still have freedom of speech in the USA…..it appears we have to be very careful now days of what we say or what we may believe for fear of offending someone so why is this? I believe in GOD and not afraid to say so, how about you?