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Trayvon Martin Case Begins

Jury selection begins today in State of Florida v. George M. Zimmerman, the case in which Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watchman, is accused of second degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, a teenager who was walking through Zimmerman’s gated neighborhood in Sanford, Florida, wearing a now infamous hoodie,…

Jury selection begins today in State of Florida v. George M. Zimmerman, the case in which Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watchman, is accused of second degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, a teenager who was walking through Zimmerman’s gated neighborhood in Sanford, Florida, wearing a now infamous hoodie, on a dark and rainy night in February, 2012. Zimmerman was armed with a handgun; Martin was carrying a bag of skittles and a soda.

By now the details of this case should be familiar (if not, you may view a timeline of events leading up to the shooting as well as statements made by Zimmerman, witness accounts, and the initial police report by clicking here and here).

Zimmerman was not arrested on the night of Martin’s death because he claimed he killed Martin, whom he admittedly got out of his car to pursue on foot, in self-defense during a fight that ensued in which Zimmerman had documented injuries.

Under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, a person may use deadly force in self-defense without the duty to retreat from a place in which he has a right to be, or to give up ground to an assailant, when faced with a reasonable perceived threat. Stand Your Ground laws are an extension of the Castle Doctrine – upheld by the Supreme Court – which states that a person has no duty to retreat when his home is attacked. Stand Your Ground laws simply remove the duty of retreat from other locations. Under such statutes, also referred to as “Line In The Sand” or “No Duty To Retreat” laws, other restrictions may still exist; such as when in public, a person must be carrying his firearm legally – as Zimmerman was.

Thus, he was questioned and released on the night he shot Martin.

A controversial and high-profile investigation, the Martin case has sparked rallies and protests around the country and has already resulting in the firing of Sanford’s police chief and the reassignment of the case to a special prosecutor – who eventually arrested Zimmerman and charged him with second degree murder six weeks after the incident.

Last month, Zimmerman waived his right to a Stand Your Ground pretrial immunity hearing. In such a hearing, a judge would have ruled whether Zimmerman’s actions were protected under Florida’s SYG law. A ruling in his favor would have meant that no criminal or civil trial could proceed.

Instead, Zimmerman’s attorneys have decided to try this as a self-defense case. In order to convince a jury to convict him of the second degree murder charge, Florida prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had a “depraved mind” when he shot and killed Martin, and that he was not acting in self-defense. In Florida, using lethal force is justifiable if a person fears imminent death or great bodily harm. Jurors will be allowed to consider a lesser charge of manslaughter in the case.

The credibility of both parties has come into question in the nearly year and a half that has passed since the incident, but because he killed Martin with one gunshot to the chest – only Zimmerman is alive to tell his version of what happened that night. There are no eye witnesses to the entire scuffle between Martin and Zimmerman, so the case will ultimately hinge on whether jurors believe Zimmerman’s account or the prosecutor’s version of events. Trayvon Martin is, of course, not alive to tell his side.

Zimmerman, on the advice of his attorneys, ultimately chose not to seek immunity under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law. The existence of such laws, however, came under national scrutiny in light of this case.

As I have written previously, I am against such laws as I believe they help turn both non-dangerous and potentially dangerous situations in public places into deadly ones. I do not support an environment of fear and vigilante justice that gets people killed for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that is what I believe Stand Your Ground laws create. Pursuing a person that one thinks may be suspicious (but who has not approached them) is not the job of citizens such as George Zimmerman – it is the job of law enforcement.

I am also troubled by the fact that so many people do not seem to understand that there is a true dichotomy here – one can actually be against Stand Your Ground laws and pro-gun at the same time. I am. I am a gun owner myself and fully support the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, the Castle Doctrine, and common law self defense, which allow people to defend themselves if they feel their life or the life of someone else around them is in imminent danger. I would not hesitate to use my weapon to defend myself or my family if we were in immediate danger in our home, business, or occupied vehicle.

I do not know if George Zimmerman acted in self-defense when he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. I have not seen all of the evidence that will be presented to the jury in Sanford, Florida charged with making that decision. I am pleased, however, that the case has made it to trial in a court of law – where it should be – so that justice may be served for both parties.

amy lazenby

Amy Lazenby is the associate opinion editor at FITSNews. She is a wife, mother of three and small business owner with her husband who splits her time between South Carolina and Georgia. Follow her on Twitter @Mrs_Laz.

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140 comments

Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:01 am

How much hell is going to break loose when Zimmerman gets acquitted?

Reply
Curious June 10, 2013 at 11:15 am

You think he’s going to get acquitted?

Reply
Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:20 am

I don’t know all the facts, but based on what I’ve listened to over the past year it seems inevitable to me. Might be a good idea to be safely inside your homes when the verdict is read, don’t want to see anyone get Reginald Denny’d.

Reply
shifty henry June 10, 2013 at 11:28 am

Jay: Do you think that the jury might be sequestered both for their own physical protection but also to protect them from outside pressures?

Reply
Amy Brandstadter Lazenby June 10, 2013 at 11:30 am

Hi, Shifty. The judge has decided to conceal the identities of the jurors who are chosen but not to sequester them. Yet.

Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:42 am

I think a sequester would be in order. These jurors are in a very vulnerable position.

mph June 10, 2013 at 1:17 pm

Hell yeah, Jaybo, they better get them jurors behind closed doors. When they cut this fearless crime fighter loose, there’s no telling what them coons are going to do. They might steal beer and TV’s, pull a Reginald Denny, rape white women. I mean shit, they might even exercise their God-given and constitutionally guaranteed right to buy guns! Goddamn! Did y’all know they could buy guns? What the Hell were the founders thinking?

First ,Tiger Goddamn Woods ruins golf. Then ACORN puts this Commie in the White House. Holy Hell.

But I ain’t scared, Bo. I welcome this shit. People, we’ve been stockpiling for this day. The Race War is upon us. Buy up toilet paper, stockpile ammunition and hunker down. Armageddon is here.

Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 3:11 pm

Your logic is clearly grounded in buffoonery.

little rocky from arkansas June 10, 2013 at 3:23 pm

From your attitude and the way you think, you couldn’t stock enough toilet paper. A supply of suppositories would better for you. And, by the way, good luck if “they” come for you.

mph June 10, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Google satire, Little Rock.

Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 10:28 am

I think they do most of that now, so what exactly would change?

Frank Pytel June 10, 2013 at 11:39 am

yep yep

Reply
Jonas Gosdell June 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm

He is going to be acquitted and for good reason! He is not guilty. Enough said. Little Trayvon the troublemaker got what was coming to him.

Reply
Curious June 10, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Last time I checked, being a “troublemaker” did not carry a sentence of execution especially without a trial.

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm

It does when you pick the wrong guy to sucker punch and then straddle while trying to beat his head into much on the sidewalk.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 6:21 pm

Oh! So there is an eyewitness to the crime after all, and you’re him! You might want to notify the prosecution, then, because they aren’t aware of any.
The account you just gave is Zimmerman’s, after he admittedly got out of his car and confronted Martin when he didn’t need to. It’s up to a jury to decide if they believe him.

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm

This much is true. As to whether or not Trayvon deserved to die, well; right, wrong, agree, or disagree, I believe that has already been decided.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm

By whom?

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm

Take your pick. Trayvon, Zimmerman, the medical examiner, the bullet, …

Curious June 10, 2013 at 7:02 pm

So you’re okay living in a society where vigilantes can be judge, jury, and executioner. I’m not. You should watch your back. It just might be you in the wrong place at the wrong time next time. That would be a shame.

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 7:07 pm

I watch my back everywhere I go, anyway. Since I am more the type to just evade someone I perceive to be following me without good cause, rather than sneak back up on them and launch a physical attack, I don’t worry about suffering Trayvon’s fate.

La Gloria Cubana June 10, 2013 at 7:20 pm

I’m completely comfortable with vigilatism… it’s what our country is breaking down to anyway. So, with that, good riddance to that little f*cking punk. Or, to quote Dabney Coleman from Modern Problems… Rest In Peace, Dipsh*t!

Curious June 11, 2013 at 10:11 am

Hi, BigT!

Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 10:30 am

Not an eye witness, but Zimmerman didn’t exactly encounter the 10 year old boy the media keeps showing. According to the media Zimmerman then threw himself on the sidewalk and started smashing the back of his head into the concrete.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 10, 2013 at 6:20 pm

…but you take that chance if you attack an armed man.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm

Who gets out of the safety of his car (after the non-emergency police dispatcher told him not to) and follows you when you are posing no threat to him.

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Did he leave the safety of his car “after” being told not to by the dispatcher, or was he already out and on foot at the time?

Now, look who might have been on the scene after accusing me of the same.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 7:01 pm

Doesn’t matter. He pursued, and continued to pursue when told not to. That’s in published reports. He put himself in the midst of a confrontation when he didn’t have to.

Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 7:04 pm

The intonations in his voice point to the notion that he was already walking in the 911 tape.

Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 10:36 pm

It does when your bouncing the head of the guy you’re attacking off the sidewalk and in fear for his life.

Curious June 11, 2013 at 10:11 am

After you started a confrontation you didn’t need to start.

The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:01 am

How much hell is going to break loose when Zimmerman gets acquitted?

Reply
Curious June 10, 2013 at 11:15 am

You think he’s going to get acquitted?

Reply
The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:20 am

I don’t know all the facts, but based on what I’ve listened to over the past year it seems inevitable to me. Might be a good idea to be safely inside your homes when the verdict is read, don’t want to see anyone get Reginald Denny’d.

Reply
shifty henry June 10, 2013 at 11:28 am

Jay: Do you think that the jury might be sequestered both for their own physical protection but also to protect them from outside pressures?

Reply
Amy Brandstadter Lazenby June 10, 2013 at 11:30 am

Hi, Shifty. The judge has decided to conceal the identities of the jurors who are chosen but not to sequester them. Yet.

The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:42 am

I think a sequester would be in order. These jurors are in a very vulnerable position.

mph June 10, 2013 at 1:17 pm

Hell yeah, Jaybo, they better get them jurors behind closed doors. When they cut this fearless crime fighter loose, there’s no telling what them coons are going to do. They might steal beer and TV’s, pull a Reginald Denny, rape white women. I mean shit, they might even exercise their God-given and constitutionally guaranteed right to buy guns! Goddamn! Did y’all know they could buy guns? What the Hell were the founders thinking?

First ,Tiger Goddamn Woods ruins golf. Then ACORN puts this Commie in the White House. Holy Hell.

But I ain’t scared, Bo. I welcome this shit. People, we’ve been stockpiling for this day. The Race War is upon us. Buy up toilet paper, stockpile ammunition and hunker down. Armageddon is here.

The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 3:11 pm

Your logic is clearly grounded in buffoonery.

little rocky from arkansas June 10, 2013 at 3:23 pm

From your attitude and the way you think, you couldn’t stock enough toilet paper. A supply of suppositories would better for you. And, by the way, good luck if “they” come for you.

mph June 10, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Google satire, Little Rock.

Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 10:28 am

I think they do most of that now, so what exactly would change?

Frank Pytel June 10, 2013 at 11:39 am

yep yep

Reply
Jonas Gosdell June 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm

He is going to be acquitted and for good reason! He is not guilty. Enough said. Little Trayvon the troublemaker got what was coming to him.

Reply
Curious June 10, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Last time I checked, being a “troublemaker” did not carry a sentence of execution especially without a trial.

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm

It does when you pick the wrong guy to sucker punch and then straddle while trying to beat his head into mush on the sidewalk.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 6:21 pm

Oh! So there is an eyewitness to the crime after all, and you’re him! You might want to notify the prosecution, then, because they aren’t aware of any.
The account you just gave is Zimmerman’s, after he admittedly got out of his car and confronted Martin when he didn’t need to. It’s up to a jury to decide if they believe him.

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm

This much is true. As to whether or not Trayvon deserved to die, well; right, wrong, agree, or disagree, I believe that has already been decided.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm

By whom?

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:45 pm

Take your pick. Trayvon, Zimmerman, the medical examiner, the bullet, …

Curious June 10, 2013 at 7:02 pm

So you’re okay living in a society where vigilantes can be judge, jury, and executioner. I’m not. You should watch your back. It just might be you in the wrong place at the wrong time next time. That would be a shame.

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 7:07 pm

I watch my back everywhere I go, anyway. Since I am more the type to just evade someone I perceive to be following me without good cause, rather than sneak back up on them and launch a physical attack, I don’t worry about suffering Trayvon’s fate.

La Gloria Cubana June 10, 2013 at 7:20 pm

I’m completely comfortable with vigilatism… it’s what our country is breaking down to anyway. So, with that, good riddance to that little f*cking punk. Or, to quote Dabney Coleman from Modern Problems… Rest In Peace, Dipsh*t!

Curious June 11, 2013 at 10:11 am

Hi, BigT!

Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 10:30 am

Not an eye witness, but Zimmerman didn’t exactly encounter the 10 year old boy the media keeps showing. According to the media Zimmerman then threw himself on the sidewalk and started smashing the back of his head into the concrete.

TontoBubbaGoldstein June 10, 2013 at 6:20 pm

…but you take that chance if you attack an armed man.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm

Who gets out of the safety of his car (after the non-emergency police dispatcher told him not to) and follows you when you are posing no threat to him.

CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Did he leave the safety of his car “after” being told not to by the dispatcher, or was he already out and on foot at the time?

Now, look who might have been on the scene after accusing me of the same.

Curious June 10, 2013 at 7:01 pm

Doesn’t matter. He pursued, and continued to pursue when told not to. That’s in published reports. He put himself in the midst of a confrontation when he didn’t have to.

The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 7:04 pm

The intonations in his voice point to the notion that he was already walking in the 911 tape.

Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 10:36 pm

It does when your bouncing the head of the guy you’re attacking off the sidewalk and in fear for his life.

Curious June 11, 2013 at 10:11 am

After you started a confrontation you didn’t need to start.

Smirks June 10, 2013 at 11:31 am

I don’t like how badly the “Stand Your Ground” laws can be abused. I don’t think there is a duty for someone to retreat from an area they have a legal right to be at, but there definitely should be an actual risk to life or limb.

Trayvon was unarmed and Zimmerman followed him and started a confrontation. Trayvon had every legal right to be in the area. That should do serious damage to Zimmerman’s defense.

Reply
Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:41 am

Not sure how anyone can say with any certainty that Zimmerman started a confrontation. His actions may have lead to a confrontation, but I’ll have to hear court records to determine if Zimmerman is at fault. Not trying to take sides with him, I’ve just heard nothing that would lead me to believe that Zimmerman wasn’t in fear for his life once the confrontation was established. Should he have stalked Martin, no. Should he have gotten out of his vehicle, no. Should he be able to defend himself if someone is on top of him slamming his head into the ground, definitely.

Reply
Curious June 10, 2013 at 11:45 am

Zimmerman would have had no need to defend himself if he hadn’t gotten out of his car and pursued Martin, which you agree he shouldn’t have done. He established a confrontation when he didn’t have to do so.

Reply
Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:47 am

That’s where it gets a little blurry. In my minds eye, there is an enormous shadow of doubt being cast. The jurors will have to see beyond this shadow. Best case scenario, hung jury.

Reply
southmauldin June 10, 2013 at 12:11 pm

Bingo!

Reply
Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 1:33 pm

None of this would have happened had Martin not went to 7-11.

Reply
mph June 10, 2013 at 1:24 pm

Dude, you’re fucking retarded. And when you stand out on this online version of a clown car, that’s an accomplishment.

Reply
Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 2:54 pm

I’m sure you’re an expert on the topic of retards and clown cars.

Reply
mph June 10, 2013 at 3:22 pm

And you’re clearly a legal expert based on that pedantic buffoonery above. I’d take it apart in pieces but engaging with someone that raises the specter of race riots and blacks attacking whites during jury selection doesn’t require a nuanced response. “You’re an idiot” suffices.

Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 3:41 pm

You’re the idiot if you think there won’t be riots when Zimmerman is acquitted. I suppose the judge is an idiot for keeping the identities of the jurors a secret. Keep your head buried in the sand MPH.

mph June 10, 2013 at 4:00 pm

Let me pose a simple question for you, Jay. When was the last race riot in the United States?

When you have to reach back to the year that Sir Mix A-Lot released “Baby Got Back,” you’re pulling it out of your ass.

Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 4:13 pm

Considering the parallels in media hyperbole, I’d say that the Rodney King beating and the Treyvon Martin shooting are birds of a feather.

Nope June 10, 2013 at 4:30 pm

Actually, they’re not. King was beaten by police officers, an arm of the law, and acquitted by a jury, part of the judicial branch. Thus, the people who were upset by that verdict felt betrayed by the American system of justice twice.
Martin was shot by a guy who owned a gun. The outrage and protests (which were actually peaceful) were spurred on by the fact that Zimmerman wasn’t arrested and charged with a crime. The people who were upset – including Martin’s parents – were asking for Zimmerman to be charged and brought to trail after he was initially released because of Stand Your Ground so they could at least try to get justice through the legal system. After the investigation, they got that charge and are getting that trial. The two cases are not analogous.

shifty henry June 10, 2013 at 3:16 pm

same here….

Reply
Smirks June 10, 2013 at 4:06 pm

Not sure how anyone can say with any certainty that Zimmerman started a confrontation.

In the 911 recording, he sounded very angry and was following Trayvon Martin. He was advised against going up to Trayvon but did anyways. It is obvious he found the kid suspicious, despite the kid not being armed and simply walking through a neighborhood he had every reason to be in to get home.

Obviously the confrontation ended up in some kind of fight where Trayvon was shot dead. The evidence leans towards Zimmerman approaching Trayvon and saying something, and judging from his tone in the earlier call, not saying something too friendly.

but I’ll have to hear court records to determine if Zimmerman is at fault.

There’s two ways you can look at it, whether Zimmerman’s actions are wrong, or whether they are wrong according to Florida law.

In my opinion, he initiated the confrontation that ultimately resulted in Trayvon’s demise. He assumed Trayvon was a suspicious person when Trayvon had a legal right to be in the area and was not carrying anything on his person that really made him suspicious or dangerous in the least bit. That indicates a lack of proof that Zimmerman’s life was in immediate danger. He could claim that yes, they got into a physical altercation and had to take action, but that does not prove self defense. If he had instigated the fight himself, or even if he taunted Trayvon into throwing the first punch, he’s guilty as sin in my eyes. Self defense isn’t looking for a fight and then finishing it, it is using deadly force as a last resort to protect one’s life or well being. Otherwise, you could just shit talk anyone on the street and whip out your revolver and shoot them dead when they take a swing at you.

Of course, what matters is if Zimmerman is guilty under Florida law, which is the primary problem with Stand Your Ground. The law is so loose that one hardly has to show any effort to prove they defended themselves. It is plausible one would have to defend themselves against an armed person, or someone who is in a neighborhood that they don’t belong in, or someone who is doing something extremely suspicious, such as going up to peer in peoples’ windows. The most “suspicious” thing about Trayvon listed thus far on that evening was that he wore a hoodie.

Should he have stalked Martin, no. Should he have gotten out of his vehicle, no.

You do understand how this can be presented as evidence against your case, right? How the phone calls and the extent of his pursuing Trayvon can be indicative of his mental state and attitude on the evening of the crime, right?

Should he be able to defend himself if someone is on top of him slamming his head into the ground, definitely.

Is it not possible that Trayvon was “standing his ground?” Why does Zimmerman only get the benefit of the doubt? Did Zimmerman start the fight? Hard to say. Did Zimmerman provoke the fight? It is a very, very logical conclusion considering the previous behavior and demeanor on the phone call. If someone were just very obviously following me around the neighborhood, I’d be quite fearful for my own safety. If they confronted me, I’d be ready to fight if I had to. Simple provocation or even straight up being assaulted by this person would very likely result in me defending myself. Of course, in Trayvon’s case, he didn’t have a gun, and Zimmerman did.

I’ll wait to see what the courts say, but in my opinion there is undeniable evidence that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon in a less-than-friendly demeanor, and there are seemingly no indicators that Trayvon was there illegally, illegally armed, or up to an illegal activity, therefore the burden of proof lies solely on Zimmerman. That may not be Florida law, but that’s how I believe the law should be.

Reply
Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm

Opinions, we all have them.

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 11:48 am

Despite the intense hype from the “Trayvon” side of this, I am far from convinced that Zimmerman did wrong. There are enough stories coming out of this, which tend to indicate that Zimmerman did as suggested by dispatch and was returning to his vehicle, when Trayvon decided to ambush him from the shadows. Remember, despite the media’s attempts to skew this case by showing unflattering pics of Zimmerman and pics of Trayvon when he was a “cute little kid next door”, rather than the thug he had grown into at the time of his death, self-defense by Z is a distinct and real possibility.

I would rather live in a society with SYG laws in place than one without. There are more ways to kill a person than through physical death. Taking someone’s freedom, all they ever worked to have, all they had for legal fees, and the like, are just as cruel and just as destructive as a physical death in many ways.

Reply
shifty henry June 10, 2013 at 3:15 pm

CC: Those are the details up to the initial assault that I read. Trayvon had disappeared from Zimmerman’s’ view and could have continued to walk unmolested toward his destination, but I believe he had an attitude on and wanted to do something about it. That sucker punch he gave Zimmerman was a very bad choice.
I also read that the condo association used these security patrols because of numerous thefts and break-ins.

Reply
Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 12:06 pm

So you know all the details of the case already? Why was good little prince Trayvon expelled from school, why did the media keep showing pictures of him when he was an 80 pound 10 year old?

Reply
mph June 10, 2013 at 1:06 pm

Ah Squishy, how about Zimmerman’s actual criminal record? You know, battery against a police officer. Also accused of domestic violence. He’s the victim here. Obviously a decent guy.

Reply
Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm

I accuse mph of child molestation. Does that make you guilty of the crime?

Didn’t innocent, prince, Trayvon get kicked out of school the last time for punching a female teacher?

Reply
Wife Beater Extraordinaire June 10, 2013 at 1:34 pm

Bitch had it coming.

mph June 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm

He has a criminal record. Look it up, genius. The kid doesn’t. Got it? And he was never accused of attacking a teacher. Where do you people dig up this nonsense.

Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 10:34 pm

So why was he kicked out of school at least once? The boy genius punched a female teacher in the face. The thug finally attacked the wrong person. Explain Zimmerman’s injuries to the back of his head.

Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 1:33 pm

How did Zimmerman get those injuries to the back of his head?

Reply
TontoBubbaGoldstein June 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm

Trayvon had every legal right to be in the area.

So did *George*. (See what I did there?)
George also had every right to initiate a conversation with Martin. :)
Trayvon had every right to then tell George to “get f**ked”, although that’s not the course I would have taken.
Martin did not have the right to go all MMA on Zimmerman unless Zimmerman physically started it.
If you find yourself whalin’ on an armed man…you’ve got a good chance of getting shot and seriously killed.

Reply
Smirks June 10, 2013 at 11:31 am

I don’t like how badly the “Stand Your Ground” laws can be abused. I don’t think there is a duty for someone to retreat from an area they have a legal right to be at, but there definitely should be an actual risk to life or limb.

Trayvon was unarmed and Zimmerman followed him and started a confrontation. Trayvon had every legal right to be in the area. That should do serious damage to Zimmerman’s defense.

Reply
The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:41 am

Not sure how anyone can say with any certainty that Zimmerman started a confrontation. His actions may have lead to a confrontation, but I’ll have to hear court records to determine if Zimmerman is at fault. Not trying to take sides with him, I’ve just heard nothing that would lead me to believe that Zimmerman wasn’t in fear for his life once the confrontation was established. Should he have stalked Martin, no. Should he have gotten out of his vehicle, no. Should he be able to defend himself if someone is on top of him slamming his head into the ground, definitely.

Reply
Curious June 10, 2013 at 11:45 am

Zimmerman would have had no need to defend himself if he hadn’t gotten out of his car and pursued Martin, which you agree he shouldn’t have done. He established a confrontation when he didn’t have to do so.

Reply
The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:47 am

That’s where it gets a little blurry. In my minds eye, there is an enormous shadow of doubt being cast. The jurors will have to see beyond this shadow. Best case scenario, hung jury.

Reply
southmauldin June 10, 2013 at 12:11 pm

Bingo!

Reply
Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 1:33 pm

None of this would have happened had Martin not went to 7-11.

Reply
mph June 10, 2013 at 1:24 pm

Dude, you’re fucking retarded. And when you stand out on this online version of a clown car, that’s an accomplishment.

Reply
The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 2:54 pm

I’m sure you’re an expert on the topic of retards and clown cars.

Reply
mph June 10, 2013 at 3:22 pm

And you’re clearly a legal expert based on that pedantic buffoonery above. I’d take it apart in pieces but engaging with someone that raises the specter of race riots and blacks attacking whites during jury selection doesn’t require a nuanced response. “You’re an idiot” suffices.

The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 3:41 pm

You’re the idiot if you think there won’t be riots when Zimmerman is acquitted. I suppose the judge is an idiot for keeping the identities of the jurors a secret. Keep your head buried in the sand MPH.

mph June 10, 2013 at 4:00 pm

Let me pose a simple question for you, Jay. When was the last race riot in the United States?

When you have to reach back to the year that Sir Mix A-Lot released “Baby Got Back,” you’re pulling it out of your ass.

The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 4:13 pm

Considering the parallels in media hyperbole, I’d say that the Rodney King beating and the Treyvon Martin shooting are birds of a feather.

Nope June 10, 2013 at 4:30 pm

Actually, they’re not. King was beaten by police officers, an arm of the law, and acquitted by a jury, part of the judicial branch. Thus, the people who were upset by that verdict felt betrayed by the American system of justice twice.
Martin was shot by a guy who owned a gun. The outrage and protests (which were actually peaceful) were spurred on by the fact that Zimmerman wasn’t arrested and charged with a crime. The people who were upset – including Martin’s parents – were asking for Zimmerman to be charged and brought to trail after he was initially released because of Stand Your Ground so they could at least try to get justice through the legal system. After the investigation, they got that charge and are getting that trial. The two cases are not analogous.

shifty henry June 10, 2013 at 3:16 pm

same here….

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Smirks June 10, 2013 at 4:06 pm

Not sure how anyone can say with any certainty that Zimmerman started a confrontation.

In the 911 recording, he sounded very angry and was following Trayvon Martin. He was advised against going up to Trayvon but did anyways. It is obvious he found the kid suspicious, despite the kid not being armed and simply walking through a neighborhood he had every reason to be in to get home.

Obviously the confrontation ended up in some kind of fight where Trayvon was shot dead. The evidence leans towards Zimmerman approaching Trayvon and saying something, and judging from his tone in the earlier call, not saying something too friendly.

but I’ll have to hear court records to determine if Zimmerman is at fault.

There’s two ways you can look at it, whether Zimmerman’s actions are wrong, or whether they are wrong according to Florida law.

In my opinion, he initiated the confrontation that ultimately resulted in Trayvon’s demise. He assumed Trayvon was a suspicious person when Trayvon had a legal right to be in the area and was not carrying anything on his person that really made him suspicious or dangerous in the least bit. That indicates a lack of proof that Zimmerman’s life was in immediate danger. He could claim that yes, they got into a physical altercation and had to take action, but that does not prove self defense. If he had instigated the fight himself, or even if he taunted Trayvon into throwing the first punch, he’s guilty as sin in my eyes. Self defense isn’t looking for a fight and then finishing it, it is using deadly force as a last resort to protect one’s life or well being. Otherwise, you could just shit talk anyone on the street and whip out your revolver and shoot them dead when they take a swing at you.

Of course, what matters is if Zimmerman is guilty under Florida law, which is the primary problem with Stand Your Ground. The law is so loose that one hardly has to show any effort to prove they defended themselves. It is plausible one would have to defend themselves against an armed person, or someone who is in a neighborhood that they don’t belong in, or someone who is doing something extremely suspicious, such as going up to peer in peoples’ windows. The most “suspicious” thing about Trayvon listed thus far on that evening was that he wore a hoodie.

Should he have stalked Martin, no. Should he have gotten out of his vehicle, no.

You do understand how this can be presented as evidence against your case, right? How the phone calls and the extent of his pursuing Trayvon can be indicative of his mental state and attitude on the evening of the crime, right?

Should he be able to defend himself if someone is on top of him slamming his head into the ground, definitely.

Is it not possible that Trayvon was “standing his ground?” Why does Zimmerman only get the benefit of the doubt? Did Zimmerman start the fight? Hard to say. Did Zimmerman provoke the fight? It is a very, very logical conclusion considering the previous behavior and demeanor on the phone call. If someone were just very obviously following me around the neighborhood, I’d be quite fearful for my own safety. If they confronted me, I’d be ready to fight if I had to. Simple provocation or even straight up being assaulted by this person would very likely result in me defending myself. Of course, in Trayvon’s case, he didn’t have a gun, and Zimmerman did.

I’ll wait to see what the courts say, but in my opinion there is undeniable evidence that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon in a less-than-friendly demeanor, and there are seemingly no indicators that Trayvon was there illegally, illegally armed, or up to an illegal activity, therefore the burden of proof lies solely on Zimmerman. That may not be Florida law, but that’s how I believe the law should be.

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The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm

You make strong points, I am one of the few people on here that’s #1 man enough to not hide behind a fake name and avatar and #2 validate someone’s opinion when it differs from mine.

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CorruptionInColumbia June 10, 2013 at 11:48 am

Despite the intense hype from the “Trayvon” side of this, I am far from convinced that Zimmerman did wrong. There are enough stories coming out of this, which tend to indicate that Zimmerman did as suggested by dispatch and was returning to his vehicle, when Trayvon decided to ambush him from the shadows. Remember, despite the media’s attempts to skew this case by showing unflattering pics of Zimmerman and pics of Trayvon when he was a “cute little kid next door”, rather than the thug he had grown into at the time of his death, self-defense by Z is a distinct and real possibility.

I would rather live in a society with SYG laws in place than one without. There are more ways to kill a person than through physical death. Taking someone’s freedom, all they ever worked to have, all they had for legal fees, and the like, are just as cruel and just as destructive as a physical death in many ways.

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shifty henry June 10, 2013 at 3:15 pm

CC: Those are the details up to the initial assault that I read. Trayvon had disappeared from Zimmerman’s’ view and could have continued to walk unmolested toward his destination, but I believe he had an attitude on and wanted to do something about it. That sucker punch he gave Zimmerman was a very bad choice.
I also read that the condo association used these security patrols because of numerous thefts and break-ins.

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Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 12:06 pm

So you know all the details of the case already? Why was good little prince Trayvon expelled from school, why did the media keep showing pictures of him when he was an 80 pound 10 year old?

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mph June 10, 2013 at 1:06 pm

Ah Squishy, how about Zimmerman’s actual criminal record? You know, battery against a police officer. Also accused of domestic violence. He’s the victim here. Obviously a decent guy.

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Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm

I accuse mph of child molestation. Does that make you guilty of the crime?

Didn’t innocent, prince, Trayvon get kicked out of school the last time for punching a female teacher?

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Wife Beater Extraordinaire June 10, 2013 at 1:34 pm

Bitch had it coming.

mph June 10, 2013 at 3:33 pm

He has a criminal record. Look it up, genius. The kid doesn’t. Got it? And he was never accused of attacking a teacher. Where do you people dig up this nonsense.

Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 10:34 pm

So why was he kicked out of school at least once? The boy genius punched a female teacher in the face. The thug finally attacked the wrong person. Explain Zimmerman’s injuries to the back of his head.

Squishy123 June 10, 2013 at 1:33 pm

How did Zimmerman get those injuries to the back of his head?

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TontoBubbaGoldstein June 10, 2013 at 6:38 pm

Trayvon had every legal right to be in the area.

So did *George*. (See what I did there?)
George also had every right to initiate a conversation with Martin. :)
Trayvon had every right to then tell George to “get f**ked”, although that’s not the course I would have taken.
Martin did not have the right to go all MMA on Zimmerman unless Zimmerman physically started it.
If you find yourself whalin’ on an armed man…you’ve got a good chance of getting shot and seriously killed.

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Honkey Whitebread June 10, 2013 at 11:42 am

I’m waiting to hear a good Trayvon joke- I hear Kincannon has a bunch of them.

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Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:44 am

There’s really nothing at all funny about the situation.

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Curious June 10, 2013 at 11:49 am

I agree, but Kincannon apparently thinks there is, based on those Trayvon joke tweets of his that caused so much controversy.

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Jay Ellington June 10, 2013 at 11:57 am

Nothing is out of bounds for pathologically unfunny people.

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The Unknown Kincannon Comic June 10, 2013 at 1:04 pm

Why did Trayvon cross the road?

Answer: He didn’t-he was shot before getting to the other side , and he sucks dick!

Hahahahahahah!

Funny eh? I’m so fucking funny!!!

I love myself. Wanna see a dick pic? What’s your phone number? Don’t share it with anyone though, or my buddy Will will google stalk you and fuck your shit up.

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Honkey Whitebread June 10, 2013 at 11:42 am

I’m waiting to hear a good Trayvon joke- I hear Kincannon has a bunch of them.

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The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:44 am

There’s really nothing at all funny about the situation.

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Curious June 10, 2013 at 11:49 am

I agree, but Kincannon apparently thinks there is, based on those Trayvon joke tweets of his that caused so much controversy.

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The Ghost of Fat Greg Dulli June 10, 2013 at 11:57 am

Nothing is out of bounds for pathologically unfunny people.

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The Unknown Kincannon Comic June 10, 2013 at 1:04 pm

Why did Trayvon cross the road?

Answer: He didn’t-he was shot before getting to the other side , and he sucks dick!

Hahahahahahah!

Funny eh? I’m so fucking funny!!!

I love myself. Wanna see a dick pic? What’s your phone number? Don’t share it with anyone though, or my buddy Will will google stalk you and fuck your shit up.

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mph June 10, 2013 at 1:21 pm

Well, Mr. Zimmerman looks rested and, um, very well fed. He must be an emotional eater.

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Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 8:53 am

Well, Mr. Trayvon looks rested an um, very well dead. He must be a non-eater… with his mouth sewn up and all.

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mph June 10, 2013 at 1:21 pm

Well, Mr. Zimmerman looks rested and, um, very well fed. He must be an emotional eater.

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Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 8:53 am

Well, Mr. Trayvon looks rested an um, very well dead. He must be a non-eater… with his mouth sewn up and all.

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lowcorider June 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm

Zimmerman thought himself a badass until about 1 nano second after Travon’s fist connected with his nose. He now knows better but unfortunately the teacher had to die. Next up for Zimmerman will be the realization that he is gay. It will happen about 1 nano second into his first prison rape.

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La Gloria Cubana June 10, 2013 at 7:22 pm

HaHa… your fist connecting thug hero, Travon, is six feet under and yet, you still talk sh*t. Typical ghetto bravado!

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lowcorider June 10, 2013 at 8:31 pm

He was no thug hero. He was just a kid.

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Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 3:17 pm

Who was suspended recently from school for punching a female teacher in the face. Love those gold teef, and pot smoking pictures on his phone. Yeah this punk was no thug, he was just a typical homeboy who brought a fist to a gunfight and lost.

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Lowcorider June 10, 2013 at 1:42 pm

Zimmerman thought himself a badass until about 1 nano second after Travon’s fist connected with his nose. He now knows better but unfortunately the teacher had to die. Next up for Zimmerman will be the realization that he is gay. It will happen about 1 nano second into his first prison rape.

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La Gloria Cubana June 10, 2013 at 7:22 pm

HaHa… your fist connecting thug hero, Travon, is six feet under and yet, you still talk sh*t. Typical ghetto bravado!

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Lowcorider June 10, 2013 at 8:31 pm

He was no thug hero. He was just a kid.

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Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 3:17 pm

Who was suspended recently from school for punching a female teacher in the face. Love those gold teef, and pot smoking pictures on his phone. Yeah this punk was no thug, he was just a typical homeboy who brought a fist to a gunfight and lost.

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Mguzman June 11, 2013 at 7:35 am

Zimmerman can say anything he wants, can’t he as the other party involved is not hear to tell his side, is he?? Love the poor pitiful look on Zimmerman’s face so hopefully the whole truth will come out and the victim’s family can have some closure……best be careful walking down the sidewalk in Zimmerman’s neighborhood as homeboy don’t play!!!!

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Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 3:19 pm

That’ll teach Tra Tra to come after a man with a gun.

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Mguzman June 11, 2013 at 7:35 am

Zimmerman can say anything he wants, can’t he as the other party involved is not hear to tell his side, is he?? Love the poor pitiful look on Zimmerman’s face so hopefully the whole truth will come out and the victim’s family can have some closure……best be careful walking down the sidewalk in Zimmerman’s neighborhood as homeboy don’t play!!!!

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Squishy123 June 11, 2013 at 3:19 pm

That’ll teach Tra Tra to come after a man with a gun.

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