SC

SC Lawmaker Goes “Nuclear” In Support Of School Choice

SENATOR SAYS HE WILL BLOCK BILLS UNLESS CHOICE IS EXPANDED S.C. Sen. Kevin Bryant says he’s done playing nice … The Upstate Republican – one of only a handful in “that party” who adheres to its stated pro-free market ideology – announced at a recent meeting of the S.C. Senate’s…

SENATOR SAYS HE WILL BLOCK BILLS UNLESS CHOICE IS EXPANDED

S.C. Sen. Kevin Bryant says he’s done playing nice …

The Upstate Republican – one of only a handful in “that party” who adheres to its stated pro-free market ideology – announced at a recent meeting of the S.C. Senate’s powerful finance committee that he will place a minority report on every piece of tax credit legislation he sees.

Unless his colleagues take steps to make a recent parental choice provision part of permanent state law …

“I know that’s going nuclear but I’ve been patient for ten years,” Bryant tells FITS.

A minority report means a single Senator can effectively stop a bill in its tracks … unless the legislation is set for special order  (i.e. placed at the top of the Senate calendar). Of course there are only a limited number of bills that can be set for special order, and as Bryant says “those slots are hard to get.”

Good for him …

There are only a handful of pro-freedom, pro-free market lawmakers in state government … which is why it is next-to-impossible to pass meaningful reform legislation on any issue (least of all education, which has its own government-subsidized political attack machine waiting to pounce at the slightest threat to its monopoly on failure).

But that doesn’t mean lawmakers can’t use procedure to block other legislation …. which is exactly what Bryant is doing.

Again, good for him.

South Carolina’s limited parental choice program – which is restricted to children with exceptional needs – must be protected and expanded. Kudos to Bryant for going to the mat in an effort to get that done.

If only this same sort of leadership was to be found in the governor’s office …

Unfortunately, S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley has gone over to the dark side.

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138 comments

euwe max February 5, 2014 at 8:48 pm

Is this the “voucher” program I’ve heard so much about?

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JJEvans February 5, 2014 at 10:17 pm

No disrespect intended, but you post on here so much – do you have a job???

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euwe max February 5, 2014 at 10:24 pm

I’m self employed. I’m currently under contract. I work from home. What are you doing for visible means?

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TontoBubbaGoldstein February 5, 2014 at 9:02 pm

“minority report”

“the dark side”

“School choice”

Racissss code words!!!

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cuvinny February 5, 2014 at 9:07 pm

How is it free market when they will be using my tax dollars to send their kids to some white christian school?

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Surprise Genius! February 5, 2014 at 10:16 pm

None of it is “free market”. They take everyone’s money to educate other people’s kids.

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Elfego February 5, 2014 at 10:35 pm

No different than taking my tax money to give money to lazy free loading,drug addicts!

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Jan February 6, 2014 at 12:22 pm

Believe it or not there are thousands and thousands of children in public schools who are neither lazy or drug addicts. Probably less lazy and less addicted than you. Typical Republican mentality.

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Elfego February 6, 2014 at 4:44 pm

You are either ignorant and or uninformed.

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Smirks February 6, 2014 at 8:32 am

Because magic. That’s all school “choice” is, magic pixie dust. You throw it in the air and poof! Everything is magically fixed.

Well, fixed for some people at least. That’s all that matters, right?

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The Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 8:58 am

It is “magic”. I magically watch how my kid is doing and if I don’t like it, overnight I magically enroll him/her in another school.

No whining to ineffective educrats that don’t give two shits about my concerns, PTA bullshit, or waiting years for change that may or may not happen while my kid suffers.

*Poof* Magic!

You don’t like having some of your tax funds diverted to help people do that? Oh, take it up with the cockroaches that take everyone’s money for what they deem is important. Your one vote every 2 or 4 years should be enough to convince them not to use your money for shit you don’t like.

Har, Har, Har

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Jan February 6, 2014 at 9:48 am

You can already enroll him in another school. No need to change the law for that. Just don’t ask me to help you pay for it.

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The Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 10:04 am

They don’t ask me to help pay for other people’s kids, they just take the money.

That’s the system we have, if the pols decide that I can use some of your money to choose which school I send the kids to, that’s just your tough luck.

No “asking” for any of us is necessary. Just lobby the pols for the way you want things and see who has enough money/vote influence to force their views on the other.

Let’s not muddy the water with this “asking” nonsense, because there is no “asking” going on for either side.

Nah February 6, 2014 at 10:17 am

“Just don’t ask me to help you pay for it.”

See my post above, no one gets a “choice”. Lobby the pols.

Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 1:27 pm

“It is “magic”. I magically watch how my kid is doing and if I don’t like it, overnight I magically enroll him/her in another school.”
And you do it all with the money the government magically takes from me and gives to you.

Fuck that noise.

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The Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 1:30 pm

Good argument, you’ve convinced me, let’s not have government taking money from anyone.

Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 1:33 pm

The argument went over your head. I don’t mind paying taxes that go for public education.

I do mind having the government take my money and give it to Nathan so he can send his kid to private school.

If sending his kid to private school means so much to Nathan, he should either get a better job or get a second job. But don’t tell me to finance that shit.

The Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 1:38 pm

“The argument went over your head.”

I think you got lost in your own argument. You can’t stay logically consistent.

You, like me, don’t get a say so on where your money goes. It doesn’t even matter what your personal feelings are or mine. The pols decide. Open and shut case, period.

If they decide to give people some money for private school, tough shit for you, cause that’s the system.

You want one thing, I want another, none of it matters. So lobby the pols for who gets who’s money.

Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 4:41 pm

“You want one thing, I want another,”

Yeah. You want the state to take my money and give it to you.
Not gonna happen.

The Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 4:50 pm

“Not gonna happen.”

Why not? They already take your money and give to those with kids in public school. Are you daft?

Ass Blow February 9, 2014 at 12:07 am

How is it education when public schools are filled with bunch black kids that act fucking thugs and animals. Now that’s a waste of tax dollars.

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SCBlueWoman February 5, 2014 at 9:14 pm

No public education money should be diverted for parental choice. You want private school, pay for it yourself. Just another way to push segregation.

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School Soup Nazi February 5, 2014 at 10:16 pm

No choice for you!

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RealityCheck February 6, 2014 at 6:03 am

Truth hurts, huh? Fact is, the biggest problem with public schools is the lack of discipline -and that comes from parents. Funny how some of the most difficult students come from the “best” homes.

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School Soup Nazi February 6, 2014 at 11:21 am

I don’t know how you ascertain that the most “difficult students” come from the best homes, I’m sure your comment on that is thoroughly researched and not demagoguery- but regardless I respect you for saying “Truth hurts, huh?” because at least you have the balls to admit it’s about restricting choice through the control of tax money.

You are the first to at least openly admit it on these forums and I respect your honesty because it at least makes debate easier.

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SCBlueWoman February 6, 2014 at 8:18 am

I sent my kids to public schools, where they excelled, went on to college and got advanced degrees. oh, they are gainfully employed and making a good living. It was my choice. Had I chosen the private schools (I didn’t because they were preaching religion and were mostly white), I would have paid for it myself. There is choice today. You can choose public or private. Choose private and pay for it.

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Nah February 6, 2014 at 9:21 am

“Choose private and pay for it.”

Why, when if lobbied properly the pols that take everyone’s money will divert some of your money for my kids to go to a better school?

Suck it up and deal with it. If you don’t like paying to educate my kids lobby the other way and then you can try to explain why the money should only go to public instead of private schools without looking like your logically deficient.

Kudos to your kids getting through though, I’m sure they themselves had nothing to do with their success, good thing the public school was there to save them.

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Nah February 6, 2014 at 9:34 am

your to “you’re”

Jan February 6, 2014 at 10:02 am

I support public education because, like Thomas Jefferson, I believe it is necessary for democracy to survive. Private schools are not. I do not have children in school but I willingly pay for my share of public education. I am not willing to pay for a school that will not take all children who apply. And it is certainly unfair to ask parents of children in public school to pay for a school that their children cannot even go to.
Private schools are private business. Pay for it privately.

Nah February 6, 2014 at 10:16 am

“I am not willing to pay for a school that will not take all children who apply.”

You don’t seem to “get it”. It doesn’t matter what you are “willing” to pay for. It’s up to the pols to decide.

No one gets a choice, you included. You do get to vote for someone every 2-4 years though. Choose wisely-and hope the lobbyists don’t get to them in between. (good luck!)

SCBlueWoman February 6, 2014 at 10:32 am

Nah, Private doesn’t equate to better in a lot of cases. That said, taking money from public education to support well heeled/middle class families have a segregated education does nothing for the nation as a whole but will continue to ensure a class system in this country. Privileged getting more privileged and the poor maintaining the status quo, or less due to funding being removed. This nation will do better with EVERYONE getting a good education, not just the few.

Ass Blow February 9, 2014 at 12:05 am

Act with some class first and you might get somewhere!

Squishy123 February 6, 2014 at 10:00 am

Did they experiment with drugs like you did too?

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euwe max February 7, 2014 at 9:06 pm

It’s not an experiment if you know what you’re doing.

Ass Blow February 7, 2014 at 4:54 pm

How nice you’re racist and don’t like white people. Of course you would choose majority black schools on someone else’s dime.

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euwe max February 7, 2014 at 9:06 pm

I knew there was a reason I hated white people!

Ass Blow February 9, 2014 at 12:03 am

Don’t bite the hand that feeds your sorry ass.

euwe max February 9, 2014 at 12:40 am

Bite makes right.

La Gloria Cubana February 6, 2014 at 6:51 am

Yeah, because the folks who support public schools don’t segregate. Biggest hypocrisy in this state is to watch all the public school advocates, lobbyists, and educrats sending their own kids to the white flight suburban schools… or worse, the Heathwoods and Hammonds. Seriously, Bryant should pass a bill that required the kids of white democrats to attend failing (typically, black) schools. School choice would then be passed by the end of this session.

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Tom February 6, 2014 at 9:58 am

The fact is this is just a way to give money to private school parents. Many of whom don’t even work. And these takers want more than they are paying into public education. The average taxpayer pays less than $1500 per year for public education.

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La Gloria Cubana February 6, 2014 at 10:43 am

Listen, to debate school choice in this state is perhaps Einstein’s greatest example of insanity. After all, on one side is the on-demand, “monopolistic”, public education advocacy crowd – who spouts erroneous revenue numbers such as the average annual tax cost of $1,500 for public education… knowing good and well that this is just the property tax bill, and that that figure doesn’t include the much larger amounts of state taxes, other local fees/taxes, and federal taxes collected for public education – that has an absolute vested, financial interest in continuing with the status quo in order to continue receiving lucrative wages, perks, and benefits. On the other side are parents – who typically are middle class folks who work (thus, not on-demand) – who simply want the best education they can for their children. Sure, some of these parents aren’t that intelligent and would indeed send their kids to private schools that were academically inferior to their existing public schools. Others – me included – would take whatever tax credit was generated and use it to buy down the cost of the best private school that I could afford to put my daughters into… and yep, that would include me walking from our supposedly superior Lexington-Richland District 5 schools. So, there you have it, the “permanent” public education crowd is going to ALWAYS win against their “temporary” opponent…. again, seeing lots of Einstein’s insanity thing going on here.

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Tom February 6, 2014 at 11:15 am

Once again, typical voucher propaganda. This is not about helping middle class families in SC. To get a $5000 state tax credit you would need to earn about $100,000 a year, those are the people this program is designed to benefit. The vast majority of the taxpayers in this state make way less than that.
And no I am not wrong on the numbers. You pay very little for public education. $1500 is a generous estimate of your contribution to public education. Most of the average taxpayer’s property taxes go for things other then schools. Only a small portion goes to the schools.
Finally, the vast majority of this money necessary to fund this program will go to people whose kids are already in private school; and the richer you are the more money you will get. Were will that money come from???

La Gloria Cubana February 6, 2014 at 12:12 pm

Where will the money come from?… why from the bloated budgets of the existing public education structure.. you know, from overstaffed administrators, aids to teachers aids, mega salaries for coaches, building consultants, overpriced A/E firms, contractors’ kickbacks, junkets to Hawaii for national educational meetings, dues to local/state/federal edunazi organizations, state house lobbyists (you know, you), etc, etc. In all seriousness, I’d love to see a bill sponsored whereby parents could shift the actual amount THEY pay into the existing system annually – state/federal/local taxes and fees, with documentation of course – to another reputable and proven educational system that would educate their children, as long as their childen are of school age. Such a bill though will never happen because it would: (1) actually remove revenue from a greedy, bloated and monopolistic educational structure, and (2) it could actually improve this state’s educational results, which scares lots of powerful political people. But anyway, thanks for your retort Einstein, uh, I mean Tom.

Tom February 6, 2014 at 1:44 pm

So you want to take money away from public school children to fund the education of children in private schools. Isn’t that what I have been saying all along? Private school parents are looking for a hand out and they don’t give a crap about kids in public school.

The state cannot redirect federal money for public education to private schools. So the taxpayers of SC who do not have kids in private school would pay this bill with higher taxes or public school children would suffer. No one in their right mind believes there is enough waist in the Public School budget to pay for tax credits for every private school parent.

I only see my side February 6, 2014 at 1:51 pm

“Public school parents are looking for a hand out and they don’t give a crap about kids in private school.”

Tom February 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm

“I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness…Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils [tyranny, oppression, etc.] and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.”

La Gloria Cubana February 6, 2014 at 2:15 pm

If by “handout”‘ you mean the ability of someone to self-direct THEIR money that they are currently paying into the existing educational system to a superior educational system that benefits THEIR kids, and by extention, the GENERAL PUBLIC (hence, this arrangement being a public school system with a little “p”), then sure, yeah it’s a handout. BTW, would you consider your taxpayer funded public education advocacy job a “handout”?

Tom February 6, 2014 at 3:59 pm

You, as most voucher folks, assume wrongly that those of us who do not support giving people money to send their kids to private schools work for the schools. You could not be more in error. I have never had a government job in my life. Unlike the people who are trying to force me to help pay for private school tuition. I help pay their salary as well, and I pay a lot of taxes.

La Gloria Cubana February 6, 2014 at 5:25 pm

Let’s face it, you’re probably either a rabid atheist – who’s greatest fear is that “public dollars” would be sent to a religious-based school – or, a bitter, childless person – who is simply angry at men and women for getting married, having kids, and having happy productive lives. Maybe you’re both.

Regardless, here’s the thing… WHAT SOMEONE PAYS TO THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOURS NOR MINE. It is still their money and they should have a say as to how it is spent. Thus, given the noted failures of this state’s school system, it makes perfect sense for those footing the bill to be complaining and to seek better solutions… and particularly, as it relates to them footing the bill for their own kids. You note that you pay a lot of taxes. I’m sorry for that. However, unless you just hate kids, you should be demanding better results as well with your money. If not, you’re just plain odd. When you buy a car/truck, are you happy when it doesn’t work well? Yeah, neither am I. And so it is with our educational system.

Finally, if you are an atheist and wouldn’t appreciate “public” dollars going to religious schools, than sure, I could live with that. At the same time, please note that I am personally fed up with the secular BS “religions” (civism, volunteerism, sloganism, jingoism, psychologism, etc, etc) in our existing public school system and would like to see them expunged. After all, regarding ethics/morality, what’s good for the gander (atheists) is good for the goose (religious folks). In my view, if religious folks are going to have to help pay the bills for an atheist vision of public schools, than those schools should be devoid of any and all secular moral and ethical training. Seems fair, right?

Jan February 6, 2014 at 6:39 pm

“It is still their money and they should have a say as to how it is spent.”
You get the same say as every other taxpayer. A vote.

Jan February 6, 2014 at 6:43 pm

You sure do like to call people names without knowing anything about them. White, male, Episcopalian, self-employed, wife, and two kids in college.

Jan February 6, 2014 at 6:45 pm

I am describing Tom by the way. I know him well.

Rocket Fuel February 6, 2014 at 8:13 pm

Episcopalian or Atheist… what’s the f@cking difference?! Seriously Jan, are you implying that Tom is a Christian or something?

Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 1:25 pm

I don’t give a shit who sends their kid to private school, as long as they don’t expect me to pay for it.

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I only see my side February 6, 2014 at 1:42 pm

“I don’t give a shit who sends their kid to public school, as long as they don’t expect me to pay for it.”

See how that works genius?

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Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 4:40 pm

Good of you to admit your real goal is to defund public education.

I only see my side February 6, 2014 at 4:49 pm

Why would that defund public education? It’s so great, most people would keep their kids in it even if given a choice, right?

Ass Blow February 6, 2014 at 1:13 pm

A large portion of black students have segregated themselves through their on desire to refuse education and respect for the classroom.

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SCBlueWoman February 6, 2014 at 1:45 pm

It’s not just black students. White student are just as guilty. Parents are to blame for a lot of it. Little Johnny and Suzie are use to getting whatever they want and many of the poor have given up. Look around at the populace of SC and you will know why.

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Billy February 5, 2014 at 9:16 pm

The dirty secret is that Bryant is a tool of Leatherman. He votes against Leatherman only when the numbers don’t matter.

This delay is not about School Choice, it is about stacking the Senate calendar into a mess so that at the end of the session Leatherman controls it, and buys what he want with tax dollars

Bryant is the worst kind of conservative. A fraud.

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Jerry February 6, 2014 at 7:14 am

This is Leatherman’s signature. Let the rightwing run crazy on an issue to eat up all the session time. Then, when everyone is in a panic to get home for the summer or get their project done, he swoops in and takes control of everything and dumps the rightwing in the ditch. Bryant ought to be smarter than to play along with him but I guess he will get something “special” for his trouble.
Leatherman is an old school Democratic that controls the Republican party through the budget process.

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Sen February 9, 2014 at 9:57 am

Leatherman just took this strategy from a long line of Senate leaders, It has worked since the beginning of time.

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Nathan Rice February 5, 2014 at 9:39 pm

According to these comments, if I don’t want to send my child to public school, and don’t think it’s right to have to pay twice for their education (taxes and tuition), I must be a racist. Wow.

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TontoBubbaGoldstein February 5, 2014 at 9:41 pm

Jan in 3…2…1…

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euwe max February 5, 2014 at 10:42 pm

wow indeed..

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Give me my refund February 5, 2014 at 11:22 pm

You send your kids to private school instead of public school and don’t think it’s right to have to pay twice. Makes sense. I don’t have kids…when do I get my money back?

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me too, me too February 6, 2014 at 1:08 am

I use toll roads instead of the public highway – I want my money back, I don’t want to pay twice?

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me three February 6, 2014 at 1:11 am

I don’t fly, where’s my money back for the FAA funding? I never use public rest stops, check please? One could go on for days with this stupid logic

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Hippocritters February 6, 2014 at 9:00 am

I agree, which is why you should bitch if our masters decide it’s in the best interest of the children that their parents have a choice on where the stolen tax loot goes.

Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 1:29 pm

I used FedEx instead of the PO yesterday.

Cut me a check, Uncle Sam!

Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 11:31 am

First of all, I wouldn’t be asking for the money “back”. Just a say in how my child gets to use it.

Second of all, you can’t use toll roads exclusively, toll roads aren’t paid for 100% by tolls, and if you decided not to use the public roads by not driving a car, you’d be excluded from the property and gas taxes that pay for them.

Does it make you angry that you don’t really have to pay for roads you don’t use? I doubt it.

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Smirks February 6, 2014 at 8:42 am

No, it makes you a selfish fuck.

Public school is always a “choice” for everyone. If you send your kids to private school, it is still a choice for you. If you homeschool your children, it is still a choice for you. You don’t have to be “accepted.” You don’t have to wait in some line. You don’t have to pay some tuition before your kid can go. Public schools must run regardless. They have to be ready to take your kids if, say, you hit hard times and can’t afford to pay for private school, or if your spouse has to take a job to make ends meet and homeschooling isn’t really an option any longer.

THAT is why you fund public schools, even while you decide not to use them.

I have zero kids and I pay for public schools. Why? Because it is generally better for society that we afford at least a somewhat decent education to every child. As such, every member of society that can contribute, should contribute. If it is taken out of property taxes, so be it. Even those who rent ultimately pay those taxes because that is factored into the cost of renting the property to them.

If pretty much everyone pays for public schooling in some way, why the hell should you get any preferential treatment? Why should you get special rules no one else gets just so you can make a choice you could already make before?

If you want public education reformed, actually reform public education. If you want out, then find another way on your own to educate your children. Otherwise, get in line and pay your dues like the rest of society does.

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Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 9:01 am

“I have zero kids and I pay for public schools. Why?”

Because you HAVE NO CHOICE you stupid douchebag.

You aren’t doing it for philanthropic reasons, you aren’t given a choice to start.

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Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 10:07 am

Gotcha. I’m not a racist, I’m just selfish.

So, if I make $18K/yr, and live near the worst public school in the state (and thus have no choice but to send my kid to that school), I’d be selfish for wanting the option to take the $10K per year the government would be spending to “educate” my child anyway, and use it to send them to a decent private school where they might have a chance at learning something. Those selfish working poor, always thinking of themselves. Can’t they understand there is a greater good at stake here?!

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Magic Smirks Fairy February 6, 2014 at 10:21 am

The issue is not one of “choice”. It’s one of interests. The education establish is very powerful in state.

Howard Rich and an assorted coalition of other varied interests are trying to push back, but let us all dispense with this notion that there is any choosing going on.

It’s a fight to see whose views will be forced on the other, a fight over stolen tax dollars.

Let’s not even pretend any of it is noble. The pols take the money and watch us like fight over the scraps by groveling to them and having varied interests pay them off in back room schemes.

It’s all dehumanizing. The system is fucked.

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Tom February 6, 2014 at 10:29 am

Typical Voucher clown propaganda. If you make 18k a year and have children you do not pay any state taxes, so guess what the voucher program and the tax credit excludes you. Its only for rich people!!!! Can’t you understand there is no greater good. This is about giving taxpayer dollars to people who do not need it. This is about money for rich people who pay off politicians to get it.

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Nah February 6, 2014 at 10:42 am

So the school administrators aren’t “rich people”?

“Can’t you understand there is no greater good.”

He does understand the “greater good”, that’s taking care of his kids in the best way he can. Your understanding of the “greater good” would mean he send his kids to a place he doesn’t think is best.

You’d prefer he just do it your way and he have no choice.

Tom February 6, 2014 at 10:57 am

“Greater goods” are not based on lies. I am sick and tired of Rich and the voucher crowd pretending this is about helping children who are in public school. That is a lie. It is also a lie to pretend any of these programs would help a parent making $18000 a year. This is about giving taxpayer money to people who currently have their children in private school. Where is that money coming from???

Nah February 6, 2014 at 11:16 am

“”Greater goods” are not based on lies. I am sick and tired of Rich and the voucher crowd pretending this is about helping children who are in public school.”

Well Tom, that’s the great debate isn’t it? Both sides see each other as liars. I doubt there’s any solution to it, so the SC public education establishment can lobby the pols just like the choice crowd/Howie.

But let’s not pretend any of it is “noble”, it’s a fight over who gets stolen money, PERIOD.

Tom February 6, 2014 at 1:30 pm

Taxes are not stolen money. Taxes are the price of civilization. No society can operate without taxes, and no society can operate with everyone deciding how the money they pay in taxes will be spent.
The statement that middle class people with their children in public school will benefit from this program is a lie. There is no evidence that is true.

Nah February 6, 2014 at 2:09 pm

“Taxes are not stolen money.”

Yes they are. Proof? Claim they are voluntary and watch how many people pay them.

I can’t even pay attention to the rest of your point because of the utter stupidity of the first sentence.

Tom February 6, 2014 at 4:10 pm

I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness…Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils [tyranny, oppression, etc.] and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.”

Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 10:58 am

“If you make 18k a year and have children you do not pay any state taxes, so guess what the voucher program and the tax credit excludes you.”

I’m not OK with that. If that’s the way it would be, I wouldn’t support it.

But the question is, if everyone had equal opportunity through a school choice program (so the $18K/yr family could choose a better school), would YOU support that?

Tom February 6, 2014 at 1:28 pm

I would support scholarships for children in failing public school districts if both parents were working and made below an established level of income.

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 12:40 pm

Gotcha. I’m not a racist, I’m just selfish.

—–
the modern word is “sociopath”

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Nah February 6, 2014 at 12:46 pm

If self interest makes one a “sociopath” then you’d be leading the hyena pack here on FITS.

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 1:12 pm

That whole “enlightened self interest” thing doesn’t fool anyone. Greed, selfishness, conspicuous consumption… if you want to be fat and ugly – spiritually or physically – fine…

but don’t expect me not to notice that you’re a selfish prick who lives off the misery of others.

Nah February 6, 2014 at 1:28 pm

Agreed. Like a selfish prick whose entire philosophy is predicated on forcibly taking money from others; you prick.

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 1:35 pm

Agreed. Like a selfish prick whose entire philosophy is predicated on forcibly taking money from others; you prick.

——–
war pricks unite! You and me brother.

Nah February 6, 2014 at 1:43 pm

lol…ok…that’s funny.

Tom February 6, 2014 at 10:14 am

Your logic is flawed from the start. There are a lot of things the government pays for that some of us never use. Besides that, you are not paying twice for your kids education. You are paying for education for everyone, and you don’t pay a lot. Look at your tax bills. You probably pay less than $1500 a year for public schools. Do you think you should have no responsibility for public education? Is it only the responsibility of those of us who have no children in school or children in public school. Or do you propose we leave everyone who cannot get into a private school uneducated?

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Your logic is flawed February 6, 2014 at 10:32 am

“Do you think you should have no responsibility for public education?”

I don’t see him arguing that, I see him lobbying to have less of the cost of the funds it takes SC to educate a child directed specifically towards his kids. Also, don’t give me your “it’s not cheaper” bullshit.

So as you say, “Your logic is flawed to start.” He clearly sees his responsibility to educate his kids, he’s just trying to do it in the manner he best sees fit.

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Manray February 6, 2014 at 11:27 am

So “he’s just trying to do it in the manner he best sees fit?” Yes, and outside the established means by which our society educates children — but he wants a subsidy from the taxpayers. We pay for public schools. They are for the “public.” If you don’t want to play that game, then — here in the Land of the Free — you’re entitled to play however you wish, as long as you pay for it yourself.

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Your logic is flawed February 6, 2014 at 11:36 am

“Yes, and outside the established means by which our society educates children — but he wants a subsidy from the taxpayers.”

The taxpayers already subsidize education, are you daft?

Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 11:50 am

No one is asking for anything more than what is currently being spent on eduction anyway. Just a little control over how and where it gets spent.

“established means by which our society educates children”

Which is a failure. I seriously don’t understand how people can actually defend it, at this point.

“If you don’t want to play that game, then — here in the Land of the Free — you’re entitled to play however you wish, as long as you pay for it yourself.”

Or, I could advocate for a system that allows me the choice of how the money (that is earmarked for my child’s education anyway) actually gets spent … and where. And if YOU don’t like that money being portable, then YOU have 49 other states that would be more than happy to keep things exactly as they are. And you could rest easy knowing that every poor parent in your state will have no choice in where their child goes to school. Lousy education by force, but for their own good!

Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 11:38 am

“There are a lot of things the government pays for that some of us never use.”

Honestly, this argument irritates me. It’s like saying “well, we run free public education, so you shouldn’t have a problem with us setting up free public [insert industry here]”.

Just because the government has gotten away with using tax money to do unnecessary things in one area, doesn’t justify it doing the same thing in another area. And it certainly shouldn’t prevent me from opposing and protesting either one.

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euwe max February 6, 2014 at 12:39 pm

Honestly, this argument irritates me.

——
well fuuuuuck you.

I didn’t get to opt out of paying for Vietnam or the Iraq war, and it irritated the HELL out of me.

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Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 12:46 pm

“well fuuuuuck you.”

My mistake. I thought this was a discussion, but I see it’s something else entirely.

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 1:10 pm

It *is* a discussion. You’re trying to get out of paying taxes, and I’m telling you how absurd your position is.

Tom February 6, 2014 at 3:51 pm

I believe public education is essential for the survival of the nation as a democracy. I do not see it as optional if we are to survive as a democracy and thrive as a people. That means its like running the court system, the police department,the military, the water supply, the road system, etc. It certainly is not and “unnecessary thing.” Private school is and unnecessary thing.

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Tom February 6, 2014 at 3:52 pm

an not and

Jan February 6, 2014 at 3:54 pm

If you think public education is unnecessary, you obviously believe people who cannot get into a Private School should not be educated.

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Voucher scam February 6, 2014 at 1:28 pm

You know who else doesn’t want to pay twice for your kid’s education?
Me.

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Funny February 6, 2014 at 4:52 pm

Is simple math that difficult for you? Are you a public school math teacher?

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Howie Richs Neighbor February 5, 2014 at 10:26 pm

This is going nowhere of course,all the wailing of the Right Wingers, Tea Partiers, assorted cryto libertarians etc, notwithstanding!

Flail away boys and girls!

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euwe max February 5, 2014 at 10:43 pm

Whoa! Wait just a minute! Did that picture change?

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Comfortably Numb February 6, 2014 at 11:17 am

No, it’s just the ludes kickin in.

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euwe max February 6, 2014 at 11:41 am

yes, but *whose* ludes?

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Comfortably Numb February 6, 2014 at 12:30 pm

Your a progressive right? Community ludes of course!

:)

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euwe max February 6, 2014 at 12:33 pm

I’m not a progressive. Ptui!

I’m a liberal.

Comfortably Numb February 6, 2014 at 12:38 pm

Oh, what’s the difference?

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 1:09 pm

you mean you aren’t aware of that whole RINO thing?

Comfortably Numb February 6, 2014 at 1:31 pm

lol, nice non-answer.

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 1:34 pm

if you can’t get your point across with subtlety you can’t get it across at all.

Comfortably Numb February 6, 2014 at 1:40 pm

I think you are mistaking incoherence for subtlety, maybe even sprinkling in a whiff of pomposity in with it. But hey, I’m just a dummy.

euwe max February 6, 2014 at 3:05 pm

I think you are mistaking incoherence for subtlety, maybe even sprinkling in a whiff of pomposity in with it. But hey, I’m just a dummy.

——–
Oh, definitely – absolutely… I’m a pompous ass. I’m an internet *god*, a tower of humility – head and shoulders above the rest.

[kicking the table leg] “the picture *did* change! There was a *vibration!*”

good gravy February 5, 2014 at 11:06 pm

if you dont get exactly what you want – its time to gum up the works on everything else….make sense. what a fucking moron.

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Smirks February 6, 2014 at 8:34 am

Basic Tea Party strategy. “We should repeal X. You don’t want to repeal X? Ok, let’s compromise. Let me repeal X and I won’t throw this monkey wrench into the gears.”

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Yea, who cares, tough shit February 6, 2014 at 10:14 am

Compromise is over rated anyway. It’s why the nation and most states are crippled with debt.

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Bill February 6, 2014 at 10:20 am

It what Republicans do. Give money to who I want or I will shut down the government. Same deal in Washington. Its time to send these hostage takers packing.

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Issy February 8, 2014 at 7:38 am

How does Kevin’s young Columbia girlfriend feel about School Choice?

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ALG Sucks February 6, 2014 at 7:42 am

Ah…just another another “tool” for Howie Rich –

http://buyingsc.blogspot.com/

Kevin Bryant – Senate District 3

$1000 05/28/2012, Michael & Susanna Dokupil, 3617 Albans, Houston, TX

$1000 05/28/2012, Vanguard Prime MMF., 1420 Walnut St. Ste. 1011, Phila., PA

$1000 05/14/2012, Paul Farago, PO Box 8907, Asheville, NC

$1000 05/14/2012, Robert Schor, 2419 Stuart St., Brooklyn, NY

$1000 05/14/2012, Cobden LLC, 1420 Walnut St. Ste 1011, Phila., PA

$1000 05/14/2012, Spinksville LLC, 1420 Walnut St. Ste 1011, Phila., PA

$1000 05/14/2012, Silver & Silver, 1420 Walnut St. Ste 1011, Phila., PA

$1000 05/14/2012, Coolcal LLC, 1420 Walnut St. Ste 1011, Phila., PA

$1000 05/14/2012, 188 Claremont LLC, 1420 Walnut St. Ste 1011, Phila., PA

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Jan February 6, 2014 at 9:49 am

Typical, Rich pay off. This just disgust me.

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Penus Williams February 6, 2014 at 11:09 am

Daayyyummm! Nice post.

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ELCID February 6, 2014 at 5:54 pm

1420 Walnut St. Ste 1011, Phila., PA
Is the corporate office Tiffany and Company, America’s foremost Jeweler.
Why the hell are they sending money to this Kevin Bryant Crook???

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WhO? February 6, 2014 at 8:08 am

guess Kevin did not like the latest artcle on his master – http://www.thestate.com/2013/01/30/2610293/editorial-howard-richs-losing.html

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Smirks February 6, 2014 at 8:27 am

Bryant’s working hard to earn Howie’s money.

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GrandTango February 6, 2014 at 9:13 am

I’d rather him do that, than Obama working overtime to rob Americans, he has already laid-low. We can’t take any more horrible gov’t from Washington.

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ThreePalms February 6, 2014 at 10:57 am

Please elaborate on how giving state tax revenue to parents of school aged children so that they can pay for private school tuition in “pro-free market.” I would think that a “pro free market” message would tell these parents to spend their own money to purchase education services at the institution of their choice. Why must the taxpayers of South Carolina subsidize their consumer choice? Bryant’s stunt is designed to allow his “taker” friends to get something from the government trough.

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Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 1:46 pm

“Please elaborate on how giving state tax revenue to parents of school aged children so that they can pay for private school tuition in “pro-free market.””

It’s not. Not really, at least.

But it introduces *some* free market ideas into the system. If we’re going to accept the idea that the state must fund primary and secondary education, then at least let parents choose what school is best for their child. Kids get educated, parents have choices, and schools compete with each other for that funding.

Competition and choice. It’s not pure free market, but it’s better than the failing monopoly that is our current public education system.

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ThreePalms February 6, 2014 at 3:29 pm

What we accept is that the state will provide free public education. No one is preventing parents from choosing to send their children to private schools. There are private schools all over South Carolina. They sprung up like mushrooms in 1970. Many parents have gone all “free market” and purchased (through tuition payments) the admission to a private school for their children.

Now, if your problem is that you do not have enough money to do it for your kids, then to bad. What could be more “free-market” than that?

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Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 3:53 pm

We don’t HAVE to keep things the way they are. There’s no benefit to doing so. What school choice advocates are saying is, let’s change it.

We probably can’t go back to the days where the state doesn’t fund education. But we CAN use those funds more effectively. Funds that were meant to be spent on your child anyway. The only difference is that instead of both funding and providing the education, the state just funds it. The provision is handled by public and private schools competing for students.

“What could be more “free-market” than that?”

I shouldn’t have to explain this, but fine. Let’s say SC decides it wants to provide gasoline for every resident each week. It charges more in taxes, but hey … free gas, right?

But the gas starts to suck. It’s poor quality, your car doesn’t seem to run as well, it takes forever to find an open pump, and you’re told you can only get your SC gas from the location nearest your house. The one on the other side of town is a little nicer, but you can’t get your gas from that one.

Of course, you can always go buy your gas from an actual gas station, but you can’t afford it. Too bad. Plus, that would just be wasting the public money that was supposed to go towards filling up your car.

Yes, how very “free-market”.

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ThreePalms February 6, 2014 at 4:43 pm

No. What school choice advocates are saying is give us a tax credit to pay private school tuition.

Nathan Rice February 6, 2014 at 4:54 pm

Congratulations. That is, indeed, one of the practical outcomes of “let’s change it”. God forbid someone use the money that was earmarked for their child’s education to pay for … their child’s education. How terrible.

As for the means of accomplishing it, I don’t care if it’s through a tax credit (so long as everyone who sends their child to a private school gets it, including the poor) or if it’s done like food stamps. As long as every parent in SC has the choice to leave a failing public school and take that money to a school they think would be better for their child.

Straw men aside (only rich white people will benefit from this), I don’t see what’s so wrong with wanting to allow parents, ESPECIALLY low income parents whose children are stuck in the worst public schools, to break free of the monopoly and spend the money (that would have been spent anyway) on a school that would be a better fit for their child.

Progress doesn’t have to be perfect.

Manray February 6, 2014 at 10:58 am

Yet another fundamentalist Christian, who claims to be a fiscal conservative, but wants public money for private schooling. Since his website boasts his commitment to “traditional family values,” my “skepticism meter” has peaked. Be wary of those who constantly proclaim their dedication to “family values.”

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Hands off my wallet, Bryant February 6, 2014 at 1:23 pm

Is he the twat in the bow tie?

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euwe max February 7, 2014 at 9:08 pm

Notice the bible on the table behind him?

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Ass Blow February 9, 2014 at 12:10 am

I hope this fucking country splits again so these fucking idiots can run their on damn schools. I’ll set back watch the whole thing collapse just like Detroit, better yet like the magic act of disappearing dollars and the wonderful black run South Carolina state college. I rest my case.

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