Pfc. Bradley Manning’s massive leak of classified military and diplomatic information to the website Wikileaks did not aid America’s enemies, a military judge ruled this week. Manning’s judge – Col. Denise Lind – convicted him on numerous espionage, theft and computer fraud charges related to his disclosure of more than 700,000 classified documents, but she did not find him guilty of this Civl War-era espionage statute.
Still, Manning faces dozens of years behind bars for his actions.
U.S. President Barack Obama and neoconservatives had been hoping Manning’s court martial would result in a conviction on the aiding the enemy charge – while attorneys for the former solider/ intelligence analyst sought to portray him as a conscientious whistleblower with legitimate objections to America’s various military entanglements.
Nobody got exactly what they wanted …
This website has been vocal in its opposition to the war in Afghanistan – and the broader “war on terror.” We’ve also been vocal in our support of National Security Agency (NSA) leaker Edward Snowden. But this case is very different.
Snowden’s leak of information related to the NSA’s massive domestic spying initiative was a “heroic act,” as we’ve said all along. But Manning’s leaks strike us as substantially less-than-praiseworthy. Certain military documents ought to remain classified, in our opinion – and while blowing the whistle on the U.S. State Department is fine (as is exposing non-tactical military information), relaying combat reports strikes us as wrong.
No matter what one thinks of the worthiness of a conflict …
Of course our government is rapidly evolving into an genuinely Evil Empire – meaning our willingness to defend its right to keep such information secret is waning.
On the broader issue, though, the Manning ruling was a victory for those who believe leaking information does not automatically make one a card-carrying member of al-Qaeda.
66 comments
I personally consider Manning to be right alongside Snowden, and am becoming more and more in agreement that they are all lumped into a category with many of the more aggressive citizen antagonists against this government. Hero’s ONE AND ALL.
For to long I have listened to this government state what heroic and kind things it does, while the quality of life in this country and the countries we attack deteriorate. Meanwhile our freedoms erode further and further on a daily basis. Hourly at times.
I would agree that some things should always remain secret, during wartime. This country hasn’t been declared to be at war in almost 70 years. If there’s no war, it probably should not be secret (at least not for very long). Especially so when the boots on the ground are the likes of the CIA, DEA, FBI, HS and ICE formally immigration (yes they operate overseas now as well. http://www.ice.gov/contact/oia/ ).
God Bless These United States of America and Have a Great Day. :) There won’t be many left with the Demlicans and Republicrats in charge.
We are not at “war” is what you said. Based on your “logic”, Trident submarine movements should be publicized, that correct?
No declared state of war in the last 70 years, granted. US troops in harms way continuously over the same period, no question. Secrets are not always about protecting political decisions and covering up government ineptitude. Sometimes divulging secrets get our troops killed. Giving a PFC cart blanch latitude to release whatever he thinks he should is like letting him put a gun to the heads of our troops and letting our enemies pull the trigger. I hope he rots in Leavenworth, good riddance!
No one gave him “cart blanch.” He was convicted of multiple charges but was not found guilty of aiding the enemy in this case.
That’s right. No one gave him leave to release squat. He took it upon himself to do it. A traitor to his country and a breaker of the solemn promise he made when he took the oath of enlistment. Scum!
afmajret;
I appreciate your position, but can not agree with it.
My position is a simple one. I do not trust the current regime, nor past regimes of 20+ years. Further I do not expect it to get better for at least another 20+. This leads me to my next question.
I have no idea what documents were released. I can only take it on faith that the documents detailed the information the government says Mr. Manning released. As I do not trust the government the inverse logical conclusion is the only option I have.
Respectfully, do you have the documents? Have you read them? You know as fact that these documents put troops in harms way? I’d love to verify it.
As a matter of fact, I think that if they would provide these documents to a Senator or Rep that I trust, and that person tells me that Mr. Manning is a new form of pond scum, so be it. I’m on board. Where’s the proof?
Proof was the crux of the matter. The judge did not rule that Manning “did not aid America’s enemies…”
The judge ruled that the prosecution did not prove that charge to her satisfaction. Sorta like the fine distinction between “not guilty” and “innocent.”
So I assume you have read the documents? You can confirm this judges guilty verdicts by the evidence?
I don’t have to read any documents. My post merely stated what the judge ruled on the specific charge of aiding the enemy in time of war — the major charge on which he was found “not guilty.”
You’re talking in circles. My entire comment is my ability to trust the gubmint to do its job honestly and morally. I don’t believe it has or can for some time. What do you believe?
“I have no idea what documents were released.”
No sane person would admit to digging through the releases from a first or second party source, at least not after the State Dept said that viewing it was a good way to get burned.
That is the two ton gorilla in the room. X was wrong. Looking at Y from X is wrong. So what was Y? We don’t know because X is wrong.
The issue isn’t that the documents he release harmed anyone or not. The issue is that he was in no position to make that determination to begin with. Beyond that, and at the root of my disgust with his actions, is the fact that he had taken an oath (yes, an oath enlistment is a binding agreement) and placed himself voluntarily under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He violated that code by releasing classified information without the proper authorization. He committed a crime and his motives are immaterial. But, to address what ‘harm’ he did by releasing such information could cause even more harm. Revealing intelligence information potentially exposes the source of that information to compromise. But, I’m not going to try to explain why certain information is classified and I doubt anyone who hasn’t had the training would understand the explanation anyway. Thank you for a respectful interchange.
Ah come on afmjret;
That’s a load of crap. Pick a side. Do you think the Constitution of These United States of America prevented Oshitforbrains or Bushy from committing HIGH TREASON.
All you fucking hippies are alike. Keep calm. Tout the party line. Be cool. Everything is going to get better.
The world is imploding. Our country, These United States, have been in a death spiral for the last 20 years. Do you honestly think that the people in the Eastern Bloc just woke up there one day? It was decades in the making.
World markets are imploding. Constitutional protections are frequently ignored for the purported purpose of ‘safety’. Debt in our country is so high…I used to be concerned about leaving it to my son. Now we will all be lucky if our great great great great grands are able to pay it off. That’s right friend. 5 generations.
If you took just half of the national debt, just half, and divided it equally among the populace (17T/2/350M) everyone in the country would have just under $25,000. In other terms each one of us currently owes the government $50,000. Do you have a clue what the interest is on that? And what do we have to show for it? A few national parks? A space station (that people wash their hair in :O HOLY SHIT!!)?
All y’all stupid ass MF’s better get a clue, nothing personal major. Your grands are depending on you. I know they can depend on me.
Have a Great Day MF’s!! :P There won’t be many left with the Demlicans and the Repuklicrats in charge.
Conversation over
Since things are so bad and will only get worse, why don’t you join T Rav and renounce your citizenship and move elsewhere. You may even find somewhere willing to license you as a contractor.
I personally consider Manning to be right alongside Snowden, and am becoming more and more in agreement that they are all lumped into a category with many of the more aggressive citizen antagonists against this government. Hero’s ONE AND ALL.
For to long I have listened to this government state what heroic and kind things it does, while the quality of life in this country and the countries we attack deteriorate. Meanwhile our freedoms erode further and further on a daily basis. Hourly at times.
I would agree that some things should always remain secret, during wartime. This country hasn’t been declared to be at war in almost 70 years. If there’s no war, it probably should not be secret (at least not for very long). Especially so when the boots on the ground are the likes of the CIA, DEA, FBI, HS and ICE formally immigration (yes they operate overseas now as well. http://www.ice.gov/contact/oia/ ).
God Bless These United States of America and Have a Great Day. :) There won’t be many left with the Demlicans and Republicrats in charge.
We are not at “war” is what you said. Based on your “logic”, Trident submarine movements should be publicized, that correct?
No declared state of war in the last 70 years, granted. US troops in harms way continuously over the same period, no question. Secrets are not always about protecting political decisions and covering up government ineptitude. Sometimes divulging secrets get our troops killed. Giving a PFC cart blanch latitude to release whatever he thinks he should is like letting him put a gun to the heads of our troops and letting our enemies pull the trigger. I hope he rots in Leavenworth, good riddance!
No one gave him “cart blanch.” He was convicted of multiple charges but was not found guilty of aiding the enemy in this case.
That’s right. No one gave him leave to release squat. He took it upon himself to do it. A traitor to his country and a breaker of the solemn promise he made when he took the oath of enlistment. Scum!
afmajret;
I appreciate your position, but can not agree with it.
My position is a simple one. I do not trust the current regime, nor past regimes of 20+ years. Further I do not expect it to get better for at least another 20+. This leads me to my next question.
I have no idea what documents were released. I can only take it on faith that the documents detailed the information the government says Mr. Manning released. As I do not trust the government the inverse logical conclusion is the only option I have.
Respectfully, do you have the documents? Have you read them? You know as fact that these documents put troops in harms way? I’d love to verify it.
As a matter of fact, I think that if they would provide these documents to a Senator or Rep that I trust, and that person tells me that Mr. Manning is a new form of pond scum, so be it. I’m on board. Where’s the proof?
Proof was the crux of the matter. The judge did not rule that Manning “did not aid America’s enemies…”
The judge ruled that the prosecution did not prove that charge to her satisfaction. Sorta like the fine distinction between “not guilty” and “innocent.”
So I assume you have read the documents? You can confirm this judges guilty verdicts by the evidence?
I don’t have to read any documents. My post merely stated what the judge ruled on the specific charge of aiding the enemy in time of war — the major charge on which he was found “not guilty.”
You’re talking in circles. My entire comment is my ability to trust the gubmint to do its job honestly and morally. I don’t believe it has or can for some time. What do you believe?
“I have no idea what documents were released.”
No sane person would admit to digging through the releases from a first or second party source, at least not after the State Dept said that viewing it was a good way to get burned.
That is the two ton gorilla in the room. X was wrong. Looking at Y from X is wrong. So what was Y? We don’t know because X is wrong.
The issue isn’t that the documents he release harmed anyone or not. The issue is that he was in no position to make that determination to begin with. Beyond that, and at the root of my disgust with his actions, is the fact that he had taken an oath (yes, an oath enlistment is a binding agreement) and placed himself voluntarily under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He violated that code by releasing classified information without the proper authorization. He committed a crime and his motives are immaterial. But, to address what ‘harm’ he did by releasing such information could cause even more harm. Revealing intelligence information potentially exposes the source of that information to compromise. But, I’m not going to try to explain why certain information is classified and I doubt anyone who hasn’t had the training would understand the explanation anyway. Thank you for a respectful interchange.
Ah come on afmjret;
That’s a load of crap. Pick a side. Do you think the Constitution of These United States of America prevented Oshitforbrains or Bushy from committing HIGH TREASON.
All you fucking hippies are alike. Keep calm. Tout the party line. Be cool. Everything is going to get better.
The world is imploding. Our country, These United States, have been in a death spiral for the last 20 years. Do you honestly think that the people in the Eastern Bloc just woke up there one day? It was decades in the making.
World markets are imploding. Constitutional protections are frequently ignored for the purported purpose of ‘safety’. Debt in our country is so high…I used to be concerned about leaving it to my son. Now we will all be lucky if our great great great great grands are able to pay it off. That’s right friend. 5 generations.
If you took just half of the national debt, just half, and divided it equally among the populace (17T/2/350M) everyone in the country would have just under $25,000. In other terms each one of us currently owes the government $50,000. Do you have a clue what the interest is on that? And what do we have to show for it? A few national parks? A space station (that people wash their hair in :O HOLY SHIT!!)?
All y’all stupid ass MF’s better get a clue, nothing personal major. Your grands are depending on you. I know they can depend on me.
Have a Great Day MF’s!! :P There won’t be many left with the Demlicans and the Repuklicrats in charge.
Conversation over
Since things are so bad and will only get worse, why don’t you join T Rav and renounce your citizenship and move elsewhere. You may even find somewhere willing to license you as a contractor.
This man attempted to expose government and military corruption, grave abuses of power, and some of the worst types of human rights abuses imaginable, and will likely spend more time in prison than all of the Abu Ghirab torturers and U.S. soldiers who participated in the murder of the Reuters’ journalists in 2007 combined. And we wonder why the world hates us. Bradley Manning is a hero, but his country is too savage, too ignorant and too goddamn obsessed with war to realize it.
“The Cut Speaketh Truth”
No he didn’t, the little weanie just downloaded as much stuff as he could get away with and gave it to Wikileaks. He didn’t sort or sift through the data he gave away, he just willie nillie downloaded anything that “looked good”.
He claimed that he was trying to expose blah, blah, blah but the facts belie
the claim.
As I sit typing this at 1525 UTC +4.5, I can reach over and type on my secure
computer, the badge I wear clipped to my ACUs gives me access to more secrets than the little puke ever dreamed of. Don’t make him out to be more than he was, a little mal-adjusted piss-ant, mad at the world, looking for a way to get noticed. The little dork will be forgotten six months from now except for all the damage he did and all the protocols we’ve put in place to prevent it from
happening again.
But how do I know? I have no faith in the government, excepting that the military stands ready to beat the crap out of some entity invading this country (Thank God something works). I make no bones about it.
Where is the proof? I’ve not heard anyone trustworthy say ‘Oh yes, blah blah asshole, commie, blah blah’. Throw me a bone. Trust doesn’t cut it with the gubmint of These United States of America.
“all the protocols we’ve put in place to prevent it fromhappening again.”
lol…anyone wanna place wagers that more leaks of “sensitive” data occur again?
The surveillance monster is out of control on all sides. You can’t stuff that genie back in the bottle.
The gov’t is funding too many sub/private contractors aside from the proven incompetence of the directly associated military’s and agencies to safe guard their own data.
They’ve got thousands of direct/indirect bureacrats sifting through data without warrants on the world population….
There will be more leaks…lots of them….the gov’t better get used to more transparency whether it likes it or not.
They can pass all the laws/rules/regulations they want. After a while the number of such gets so great it doesn’t matter anymore.
Didn’t say they would be effective but they’re sure present and are sure a pain in the ass. Someone just explained to the signal guys that setting a secure coputer on top of a non secure computer makes everything done on the secure computer accessible because of a funny little electronic problem known as TEMPEST. So now we’re finally going Your Colonel has to have to have another colonel sign off on anything he scans, faxes or burns to disk.
The building I work in is open storage meaning we could have documents of a given classification out on our desks but no more. Safes are always locked – even though we work in a facility designed for open storage and I am in and out of it throughout the day.
Computers have a three minute lock (three minutes of inactivity locks the computer). All screens covered with privacy filters that play havoc on my old eyes.
Maps are no longer printed with legends – the legend is a separate document that is stored separately when not in use.
No MP3 players, no cell phones, no wireless phones, nothing plugged into the USB ports, (that’s actually been the rule
since before this happened but is actually related to virus propagation not theft of data) . The USB rule was rewritten to allow keyboards and mice but no presentation devices or anything else. The guy that wrote that rule apparently had stock in CD-r production because that’s the only way we can transfer data and the number of disks you have and their location is controlled.
Interesting stuff, thanks for the rundown Colonel.
The real issue, unsolvable for the powers…is that “hacking” has always started as a social engineering issue.
Right or wrong, there will always be people with access to information sharing it with others(on both “sides” of any issue).
I personally believe that when truly the occupying the “moral high ground” the “leaks” aren’t as great….when not…naturally they go up.
The gov’t can try to legislate and obfuscate(HT to Jackie Chiles) but at the end of the day they either occupy the moral high ground and the transparency/leaks don’t matter….or they don’t.
When waging a true “war” the sensitivity of tactical data and its protection is understandable…but the inability to distinguish from those speaking out against a war or atrocities that naturally result(on both sides) versus those actually committing said crimes is what makes effective security and surveillance all but impossible.
Either way it’s a problem created by gov’t…and most likely unsolvable.
Better to decide that the whole world is not your potential enemy but it doesn’t look like that’s in the cards.
?, then please answer my response earlier to Pytel. If we are not at war, why are Trident submarine movements classified? If we are not at war, should SOSUS be shut down?
Huh? I don’t read your stuff normally unless you directly ask me a question.
Anyway, to your direct question, I’ll answer it with another question:
Why are out troops operating and fighting in several theaters without a declaration of war?
The answer to that question ultimately answers your question on Trident submarine movements.
Personally, I think the notion of Smedly Butler’s “Amendment for Peace” makes sense, and in that context a MYOB foreign policy makes classifying their movements unimportant…but I digress.
Your answer is that they were ordered to so by their Commander in Chief. Now back to you on my two questions. I will make it simple for you. Would YOU publicize Trident submarine movements and shut down SOSUS since there has been no declaration of war?
This man attempted to expose government and military corruption, grave abuses of power, and some of the worst types of human rights abuses imaginable, and will likely spend more time in prison than all of the Abu Ghirab torturers and U.S. soldiers who participated in the murder of the Reuters’ journalists in 2007 combined. And we wonder why the world hates us. Bradley Manning is a hero, but his country is too savage, too ignorant and too goddamn obsessed with war to realize it.
“The Cut Speaketh Truth”
No he didn’t, the little weanie just downloaded as much stuff as he could get away with and gave it to Wikileaks. He didn’t sort or sift through the data he gave away, he just willie nillie downloaded anything that “looked good”.
He claimed that he was trying to expose blah, blah, blah but the facts belie
the claim.
As I sit typing this at 1525 UTC +4.5, I can reach over and type on my secure
computer, the badge I wear clipped to my ACUs gives me access to more secrets than the little puke ever dreamed of. Don’t make him out to be more than he was, a little mal-adjusted piss-ant, mad at the world, looking for a way to get noticed. The little dork will be forgotten six months from now except for all the damage he did and all the protocols we’ve put in place to prevent it from
happening again.
But how do I know? I have no faith in the government, excepting that the military stands ready to beat the crap out of some entity invading this country (Thank God something works). I make no bones about it.
Where is the proof? I’ve not heard anyone trustworthy say ‘Oh yes, blah blah asshole, commie, blah blah’. Throw me a bone. Trust doesn’t cut it with the gubmint of These United States of America.
“all the protocols we’ve put in place to prevent it fromhappening again.”
lol…anyone wanna place wagers that more leaks of “sensitive” data occur again?
The surveillance monster is out of control on all sides. You can’t stuff that genie back in the bottle.
The gov’t is funding too many sub/private contractors aside from the proven incompetence of the directly associated military’s and agencies to safe guard their own data.
They’ve got thousands of direct/indirect bureacrats sifting through data without warrants on the world population….
There will be more leaks…lots of them….the gov’t better get used to more transparency whether it likes it or not.
They can pass all the laws/rules/regulations they want. After a while the number of such gets so great it doesn’t matter anymore.
Didn’t say they would be effective but they’re sure present and are sure a pain in the ass. Someone just explained to the signal guys that setting a secure coputer on top of a non secure computer makes everything done on the secure computer accessible because of a funny little electronic problem known as TEMPEST.
The building I work in is open storage meaning we could have documents of a given classification out on our desks but no more. Safes are always locked – even though we work in a facility designed for open storage and I am in and out of it throughout the day.
Computers have a three minute lock (three minutes of inactivity locks the computer). All screens covered with privacy filters that play havoc on my old eyes.
Maps are no longer printed with legends – the legend is a separate document that is stored separately when not in use.
No MP3 players, no cell phones, no wireless phones, nothing plugged into the USB ports, (that’s actually been the rule
since before this happened but is actually related to virus propagation not theft of data) . The USB rule was rewritten to allow keyboards and mice but no presentation devices or anything else. The guy that wrote that rule apparently had stock in CD-r production because that’s the only way we can transfer data and the number of disks you have and their location is controlled.
Young Bradley’s activities have had far reaching effects on daily business over here, so now your Colonel has to have to have another colonel sign off on anything he scans, faxes or burns to disk like I don’t have anything better to do… Get the little bastard a rifle and let him walk point for a while.
Interesting stuff, thanks for the rundown Colonel.
The real issue, unsolvable for the powers…is that “hacking” has always started as a social engineering issue.
Right or wrong, there will always be people with access to information sharing it with others(on both “sides” of any issue).
I personally believe that when truly the occupying the “moral high ground” the “leaks” aren’t as great….when not…naturally they go up.
The gov’t can try to legislate and obfuscate(HT to Jackie Chiles) but at the end of the day they either occupy the moral high ground and the transparency/leaks don’t matter….or they don’t.
When waging a true “war” the sensitivity of tactical data and its protection is understandable…but the inability to distinguish from those speaking out against a war or atrocities that naturally result(on both sides) versus those actually committing said crimes is what makes effective security and surveillance all but impossible.
Either way it’s a problem created by gov’t…and most likely unsolvable.
Better to decide that the whole world is not your potential enemy but it doesn’t look like that’s in the cards.
?, then please answer my response earlier to Pytel. If we are not at war, why are Trident submarine movements classified? If we are not at war, should SOSUS be shut down?
Huh? I don’t read your stuff normally unless you directly ask me a question.
Anyway, to your direct question, I’ll answer it with another question:
Why are out troops operating and fighting in several theaters without a declaration of war?
The answer to that question ultimately answers your question on Trident submarine movements.
Personally, I think the notion of Smedly Butler’s “Amendment for Peace” makes sense, and in that context a MYOB foreign policy makes classifying their movements unimportant…but I digress.
Your answer is that they were ordered to so by their Commander in Chief. Now back to you on my two questions. I will make it simple for you. Would YOU publicize Trident submarine movements and shut down SOSUS since there has been no declaration of war?
Both are traitors.
Unless you are disagreeing with Lind, traitors should be in quotation marks.
Nope, can’t agree with you.
How so?
Both are traitors.
Unless you are disagreeing with Lind, traitors should be in quotation marks.
Nope, can’t agree with you.
How so?
Actually a very good precedent. Future political leaders will not be granted unlimited power to do as they please in the name of national defense. Their actions reflect on more than 300 million people living in the United States, and they will not be able to count on threats of espionage to coerce people into going along with their terrible decisions.
1 down but a hellova long way to go. It’s too easy for them to invent new avenues of escape. One drops they create 10 more.
Good Point brother.
Actually a very good precedent. Future political leaders will not be granted unlimited power to do as they please in the name of national defense. Their actions reflect on more than 300 million people living in the United States, and they will not be able to count on threats of espionage to coerce people into going along with their terrible decisions.
1 down but a hellova long way to go. It’s too easy for them to invent new avenues of escape. One drops they create 10 more.
Good Point brother.
We need to give that little dork a rifle and send him to Helmand Province, Afghanistan for an extended tour of duty as the point man in a rifle squad
We need to give that little dork a rifle and send him to Helmand Province, Afghanistan for an extended tour of duty as the point man in a rifle squad
History repeats itself. There was a point in time where our founding fathers were consdered enemies against the crown for standing up to the king of England. It was then they felt we were being over taxed and over controlled by the crown and stood up against the King. Although, there wasn’t as many secret agencies then thatn there are now. The founding fathers stood up against the government at that point. They are all in the istory books as heros of the timefor doing what some of these guys are doing today. Where is the line of difference here? It is really unclear where it is and at point do we become known as enemies.
History repeats itself. There was a point in time where our founding fathers were consdered enemies against the crown for standing up to the king of England. It was then they felt we were being over taxed and over controlled by the crown and stood up against the King. Although, there wasn’t as many secret agencies then thatn there are now. The founding fathers stood up against the government at that point. They are all in the istory books as heros of the timefor doing what some of these guys are doing today. Where is the line of difference here? It is really unclear where it is and at point do we become known as enemies.