SC

Don’t Take The Guns

YOU WON’T BE SAFER … || By FITSNEWS || Lauren Luxenburg – a Northern Virginia native who earned her stripes in the rough and tumble world of South Carolina politics – has an interesting post up in the aftermath of last week’s horrific, racially motivated “Holy City Massacre.” An account executive at Austin,…

YOU WON’T BE SAFER …

|| By FITSNEWS || Lauren Luxenburg – a Northern Virginia native who earned her stripes in the rough and tumble world of South Carolina politics – has an interesting post up in the aftermath of last week’s horrific, racially motivated “Holy City Massacre.”

An account executive at Austin, Texas-based WPA Research, Luxenburg refers to the shooting as an “unimaginable tragedy.”

“America is mourning for the innocent lives lost, their families, and friends. It is a time for everyone to reflect,” she wrote.

But Luxenburg also took note of the immediate effort by U.S. president Barack Obama and 2016 frontrunner Hillary Clinton to turn the tragedy into yet another anti-gun crusade – and offered some compelling counterpoints.

LUXENBURG
LUXENBURG

“In preference to yet another eradication of our Constitutional liberties, we should first question the effectiveness of gun control,” she wrote.

Specifically, Luxenburg cited a 2007 Harvard study (.pdf here) published by Gary Mauser and Don B. Kates.

“If more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death, areas within nations with higher gun ownership should in general have more murders than those with less gun ownership in a similar area. But, in fact, the reverse pattern prevails,” the study found.

That conclusion is consistent with the federal government’s own crime data.

Luxenburg’s piece also points out that in the 25 years after Washington, D.C. passed its firearm ban, “its murder rate increased 51 percent while the national rate decreased 36 percent.”

Citing recent Gallup data showing a record-high percentage of Americans believe guns make homes safer, Luxenburg concludes “the President is using a tragedy to score political points instead of providing serious leadership that takes into account how most Americans feel about this issue.”

We agree …

This website condemns the deadly, premeditated violence that took place in Charleston, S.C. last week – as does everyone with even half a heart.  More importantly, we condemn the hateful bigotry which seems to have been its underlying motivation – and reject efforts to scapegoat the gunman’s drug use or possible mental illness.

Also, we have been leading the fight to remove what many believe to be a symbol of that bigotry – a symbol used by the perpetrator of this massacre.

But as the fog of grief and anger gives way to the search for a better world (or at the very least a better state), we cannot and will not embrace movements which would make us less safe as a people.

***

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78 comments

Fecal Matters June 22, 2015 at 8:30 am

Barry is a pro at pulling statistics and out of his posterior. Over the weekend he proved, once again, that facts are not his strong suit by stating that racism is in our DNA. You have to be a true simpleton to believe that one is born a racist through genetic makeup.

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RogueElephant June 22, 2015 at 8:35 am

Like everything the left dose. It’s all about their agenda.

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Jonny Logic June 22, 2015 at 10:17 am

Yup, you figured us out. Gosh darnit. Trying to live all safely and stuff. We are just soooo silly.

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Fecal Matters June 22, 2015 at 10:44 am

How does one “live safely and stuff”?

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 3:30 pm

Please don’t look into it.

Fecal Matters June 22, 2015 at 4:52 pm

So much hate. Didn’t daddy hug your enough? Or maybe he hugged you too much. What’s your deal?

euwe max June 22, 2015 at 5:22 pm

He died when I was 8. *sob*

Bible Thumper June 22, 2015 at 9:39 am

Actually, they have done studies on babies. They show a built-in bias. This conforms with the Christian view that we are born in sin. This doesn’t mean it is right or good. We can be taught better and rise above our nature. It’s called being civilized.

Liberals often praise nature, but it has a cruel side that we hope religion and civilization seeks to lift us above. Doesn’t always work out. Religion and civilization can also bring us down when it appeals to our base, natural instincts.

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Rakkasan June 23, 2015 at 9:19 am

That study conforms to “you can’t fix stupid”

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More data please June 22, 2015 at 10:07 am

Luxenburg’s piece also points out that in the 25 years after Washington, D.C. passed its firearm ban, “its murder rate increased 51 percent while the national rate decreased 36 percent.”

I’d like to see some detail to the above data before I make up my mind. Data like how many of the murders were with a firearm (or do we just assume most murders are committed with firearms) and of those committed by a firearm where did the firearm originate from.

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The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 10:21 am

Here’s the FBI data of homicide by method for the last : https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

You’re more likely to be killed with a knife or a punch or kick than all firearm types except handguns.

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 3:30 pm

Let’s not forget old age. It’s a killer!

More people died on our highways than in our last war.

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The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 3:33 pm

Unfortunately, that one’s getting harder and harder for me to forget every day.

euwe max June 22, 2015 at 3:52 pm

You drive a rattletrap?

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 3:57 pm

no I’m getting old…

euwe max June 22, 2015 at 5:27 pm

doesn’t seem right, does it?

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm

Hell no, I finally have the time and resources and now I’m too old to do the stuff I wanted to do

euwe max June 22, 2015 at 5:46 pm

get a dog. That’s what I did. I got two.

It gives me perspective.

First, I cut off the boy’s balls, and gave the girl a hysterectomy.

Then, I punished them for normal bodily functions until they became blindly obedient.

I keep them inside so they won’t be exposed to fleas and ticks.

I restrict their diet.

And now that I have them just the way I want them, and they’re pretty much free to be what’s left of the dog in them, they have about 5 years left to live.

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 6:05 pm

Motorcycles won’t crap on my lawn and I can ride them in the Blue Ridge (and they cost about the same).

euwe max June 22, 2015 at 7:59 pm

Maybe you should look into drugs.

Better living through chemistry, I always say.

Drugs have gotten a bad rap.. but if you step back and think about it, on the last line it all reduces to quality of life.

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 8:03 pm

I recently bought the first bottle of liquor I’ve purchased in 20+ years. A little Coke a Cola and rum at the days end does seem to improve my disposition. Had to quit drinking beer, damn gout in my foot.

euwe max June 22, 2015 at 8:12 pm

Get some good shit.. don’t deny yourself fine liquor.

Go to a tractor pull.

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 8:15 pm

For reasons completely beyond comprehension, I prefer rodeos.

Rakkasan June 23, 2015 at 9:23 am

No Brokeback pun intended, try some of the Mount Gay dark rum. Great stuff.

vicupstate June 22, 2015 at 10:46 am

Washington DC is a poor example to use because all someone there would have to do, is take a very short car/bus/train/subway ride to one of two states nearby (and a third not too much farther) where different laws apply. They may have the strictest gun laws anywhere, but they are essentially unenforceable.

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Fuck This Shit June 22, 2015 at 9:01 am

If SC removes the Confederate Flag, is need to remove all Confederate Monuments, it needs to tear down all structures built by slaves (including the plantations in Charleston and other areas of the state. And it needs to tear down Fort Sumter and Fort Moultrie. All of these things represent slavery and racism! Shit – lets just remove the entire state from the union, ok????? That will settle this bullshit flag crap once and for all.

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born here, no heritage there June 22, 2015 at 9:05 am

if SC removes the monument or flag, the term African American needs to be replaced with American.

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 10:33 am

They are so vain (or uninformed) that they want to take an ENTIRE CONTINENT..!! Never mind that they don’t include the Arabs, etc. Hell, I wouldn’t refer to myself as “Entire British Empire – American”….

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YallCalmDown June 22, 2015 at 9:05 am

“Shit – lets just remove the entire state from the union, ok?????”

Tried that once. Didn’t work out.

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CNSYD June 22, 2015 at 9:27 am

Quiz: What state first threatened secession (actually they did it 4 times)?

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TroubleBaby June 22, 2015 at 9:57 am

I’m going to guess, (and great question btw, I’m curious as to the answer)

Kentucky?

I only say this knowing that Jefferson had a hand in their Constitution and seem to remember some early consternation over the abandonment of the Articles of Confederation.

Jefferson was mostly a small gov’t, decentralized type of guy.

Please make sure you post the answer after some time, I’m really curious and my guess is just that.

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CNSYD June 22, 2015 at 10:14 am

Would you believe Massachusetts? They didn’t like the Louisiana Purchase, they opposed the statehood of Texas, etc. Then all of a sudden in 1860 they didn’t believe the South had the right to secede.

TroubleBaby June 22, 2015 at 11:47 am

lol…it really is odd…but on the flip side is, maybe after Lexington they thought they helped to start the overthrow of one boss only to get a more unjust & local one.

I wonder if anyone cared that NYC wasn’t made capital at the time. (other than NYers)

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 10:19 am

A group of New England states started the trend in 1814 at the Hartford convention. South Carolina has taken steps twice in 1828 and 1861. Texas was told by the Supreme Court that they couldn’t secede (Texas V. White, 1868). Vermont rattled their secessionists sabers every once in a while but took no real steps.

As for a state that has threatened four times – you got me. There is a (very) small group of South Carolinian who’d like to secede again called the Third Palmetto Republic but I don’t think you’re talking about groups of mixed nuts…

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CNSYD June 22, 2015 at 10:36 am

Colonel, I will need to consult some books when I get home but it is my understanding that MA had 4 issues prior to 1860 that they threatened to secede over. The 2 I listed were ones I happened to recall.

My point is that there is nothing new under the sun and today’s proponent is tomorrow’s opponent. It all depends on whose ox is being gored.

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 11:14 am

Oh absolutely, Rick Perry threatened to secede in 2006

CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 12:27 pm

True but he didn’t even have the balls to stand firm when they were trying to make it a felony in TX, for TSA to grope innocent citizens who are not suspected of any crime. Jackboot Janet Napolitano threatened to shut down air travel over TX and he walked away with his tail between his legs. He should have told her to “bring it”! The political backlash would have effectively politically shut down this administration. Perry is a nutless, gutless, wonder

CNSYD June 22, 2015 at 2:46 pm

Colonel, the 4 issues that caused MA to threaten secession were: (1) the adjustment of state debts, (2) the Louisiana Purchase, (3) the War of 1812 and (4) annexation of Texas.

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 2:55 pm

I knew about Louisiana purchase and War of 1812 but didn’t know the others – interesting…

Stupidity on display June 22, 2015 at 9:05 am

“More importantly, we condemn the hateful bigotry which seems to have been its underlying motivation – and reject efforts to scapegoat the gunman’s drug use or possible mental illness.”

Well then, if you don’t consider the gunman’s drug use or possible mental illness as valid factors for his actions, the next logical step to prevent all future race based murder is to stop any possibility of such by throwing all racists in jail.

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CNSYD June 22, 2015 at 9:10 am

The background of why the second amendment exists can be found in the then recent experiences of the Scots who emigrated to the colonies. England took all the “weapons of war” from the Scots when they subjugated them. The Scots now living in the colonies were not about to be tricked again.

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The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 10:06 am

The Scots, the Irish, the French and a whole host of nations.

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 10:28 am

Yes, I am of Scottish descent. Perhaps I should change my moniker to “The Shifty Scot”, or “Henry the Scot”. No, none of that works….

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 10:52 am

Speaking of the Scottish, here’s the solution to the word puzzle—–

“HIGHLAND FLING”

Sweet Molly MacDougal, in labor,
Warned her sister, “It hurts like a_ (SABER) ,
Sin _ (BEARS)_ a high price,
So a girl should think twice
What she _(BARES) _ on the _(BRAES) _ for a neighbor.

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 10:57 am

And the other one —

“I HOPE TO MEET MY BARTENDER FACE TO FACE”

‘Twould much _ (ENDEAR)_ you to me if, when I
Have _ (NEARED) _ my fatal moment, and must die,
You’d share one well _(EARNED) _ drink, and pray there are
Some more to come across that final bar.

Rakkasan June 22, 2015 at 1:27 pm

The background is more closely associated with the perceived need to keep arms to deter/prevent slave uprisings. It correlates with the relatively small number of soldiers SC contributed to the Rev War cause they were home protecting their wealth and power from the people they feared might threaten it first and foremost, and that was not the Crown.

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CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 9:26 am

Good points, Lauren! I can’t find the Greek characters for this phone’s keyboard so “MOLON LABE”, with regard to thoe who want us disarmed.

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Quietus June 22, 2015 at 10:50 am

Here’s a couple of versions.

????? ????

????? ????!

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CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 10:52 am

Thank you, Quietus!

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 10:58 am

Aren’t those beers from Canada?

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CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 11:51 am

I believe so. Probably a varient of Moose Head or something of that order.

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 12:38 pm

Moose Head ///
In Canada, a beer; in West VA, a felony…
——–
Why does West VA have the worst drivers in the US? Because high schools use Driver Ed Cars only on Mondays — then Tuesday thru Friday the Sex Ed classes get them.

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CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 12:59 pm

LOL!!!! I shoulda known more good one would be coming from your keyboard!

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 9:56 am

Often in this argument we hear the number 35,000 gun deaths a year – left out is that 2/3rds of those deaths (23,000 last year) are self inflicted and a significant number are justifiable.

Along the “justifiable lines”, we never hear how many times a gun is used in a “less than lethal engagement”. Dr. Gary Kleck, professor of criminology at FSU says that there are as many as 500,000 crimes committed each year where a gun is presented but there are as many as 2,500,000 crimes broken up each year by instances of private citizens using guns in a defensive manner (from killing an assailant to simply brandishing the gun).

Let’s say he’s wrong by 50% as some critics have (very poorly) argued – that means that 1.25 million crimes were broken up by private citizens. Lets say for arguments sake that all of the gun deaths (11,000 last year) were caused as a part of that 1.25 million gun uses. That would mean that less than 1% of all the times (0.7%) a gun was used to prevent a crime it ended in a fatality.

If you want to do you own research, here’s a good place to start “Armed : new perspectives on gun control /Gary Kleck & Don B. Kates (Kates is a Yale educated lawyer who worked for noted civil rights attorney Bill Kuntsler during the 60s)

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Jackie Chiles June 22, 2015 at 10:20 am

Fits thought process on the cause of the shooting:

Well, he used a gun to kill a bunch of innocent people. OH, but yeah, he also held a confederate flag in a picture a few months before the shooting. OH and he had confederate flags on his car. Yeah, obviously ease of access to guns wasn’t the cause of this shooting, it was the Confederate flag. TAKE DOWN THE FLAG!!!!!

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shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 10:50 am

Better start banning other types of murder weapons, such as golf clubs, baseball bats, cast iron frying pans, —– your get the drift…

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 3:28 pm

How about background checks? Will we have to have them for penknives?

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The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 3:33 pm

You already can’t by a locking blade pocketknife in most of Europe

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 3:51 pm

You can’t count Europe, they’ve already endorsed Sharia Law.

shifty henry June 22, 2015 at 6:13 pm

Those poor little kids who might not pass a background check — they’ll never have the enjoyment of telling their grandchildren how much fun they had playing mumbley-peg in the school yard when they were young (sigh).

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 8:01 pm

To prevent rape, children won’t be able to possess anything longer than it is wide.

Let's reject reality & emote June 22, 2015 at 11:57 am

Don’t forget, it wasn’t mental illness or drug use either.

No “scapegoat”ing allowed.

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9" June 23, 2015 at 7:48 am

Where did you get your degree in forensic psychiatry?

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Innocent bystander June 22, 2015 at 10:48 am

As a private citizen 67 years of age, I’ve twice used my personal firearm to protect, or save the life of two individuals. I was much younger then; but, have no qualms about doing the same now. The only difference, I would be unable to stop the beating of one young woman by a man and a group of his friends, who wanted to also assault me for my intervention. My Colt 1911 prevented that and the assault of the young lady and threats to myself were immediately halted.
I fear what may have happened had it not been for that Colt.

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CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 12:55 pm

For shame, protecting others and yourself. Some would have had you call the police, IF you could get to a phone, then wait for them to arrive, take a report, then call an ambulance and/or hearse as needed for you and the other victim. I don’t get it either, but there are a lot of people out there who seem to believe that would have been the better course of action.

I think you did an excellent job!

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Quietus June 22, 2015 at 10:54 am

I need to know the following:

What brand of toilet paper did he use?
What brand of soda does he drink?
What type of beer does her drink?
Where did he buy the gas for his 2000 Hyundai? What grade of gas?

Let’s make sure we ban all the above, obviously they assist in mass murder. (Rolls Eyes)

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CorruptionInColumbia June 22, 2015 at 11:03 am

Exactly! On another related thread, somebody was asking another poster what caliber their Glock was, a comment I took to be an attempt to “brand shame” anyone who has a Glock. I responded that I had several, asking which one they were inquiring about. Sorry, I make no apologies for owning Glocks (including the model used by the POS in comitting mass murder) and accept no shame for it, either. I was reading an article that was less than a year old the other night, that said approximately 65% of LE agencies in the US issue Glocks. They are durable, reliable, and accurate firearms.

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The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 11:18 am

A very real question we need to look into is this issue of SSRIs used to treat mental illness. No excuse, wouldn’t allow it as a defense but apparently there is a tie between violent acting out and this class of drugs, even the “Psycho Docs” seem to thin so – https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201212/newtown-shootings-caution-about-violence-and-ssris

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Rakkasan June 22, 2015 at 1:19 pm

Best stay in your lane on this one, boss. Trust me. And, you don’t want to know what percent of your forces in the Gulf were taking these, and other psychotropics as well. You really don”t. And, for good measure, when people tend to run into problems acting out while on these meds, it’s most often more a function of a co-existing personality disorder.

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The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 2:47 pm

Rakkasan, I am well aware of the drugs used down range and that many of them have been pulled in favor of other meds lately. This may become a real problem if we don’t get on it.

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Rakkasan June 22, 2015 at 4:27 pm

No, they haven’t been “pulled”; other drugs are being used in their stead given different circumstances and now having had some clinical experience (it is the “practice’ of medicine). The degree of trauma experienced by our troops is much less than it was 2004-2008 so we have different clinical presentations now. The SSRIs were the meds with FDA and VA support for efficacy. And, all due respect, you read or heard about it, I was treating them. Lunch at the Club someday?

The Colonel June 22, 2015 at 4:53 pm

Never, the food is terrible., DiPrato’s?

Rakkasan June 23, 2015 at 7:00 am

Yeah, me too. But there was a lot going on that you didn’t know about because it hadn’t risen to a level where the CDR’s need to know overridden the Soldier’s right to privacy

Quietus June 22, 2015 at 1:22 pm

We know he was using Suboxone and drank heavy. I know it’s not an SSRI and I’ve read about the SSRI connections especially in young males it can be quite scary. I know someone who was on Zoloft and stopped taking them about 10 years ago. She just quit cold, not the normal step down you are supposed to do. This resulted in her having phantom electric shocks, and extreme paranoia (Had to go clear her house for her before she would go inside on multi occasions). It took about two weeks for the side effects to die off.

Here’s information on Suboxone and EtOH interactions.

Using buprenorphine together with other medications that cause central nervous system depression such as ethanol can lead to serious side effects such as respiratory distress, coma, or even death. You may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. Do not drink alcohol or self-medicate with these medications without your doctor’s approval, and do not exceed the doses or frequency and duration of use prescribed by your doctor. Also, you should avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how these medications affect you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 3:29 pm

How about a background check for booze?

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Rakkasan June 22, 2015 at 4:31 pm

Yup, busted. Oh, you mean did he kill those people AND (not because) he was drunk or had a substance abuse problem? Stop the deflection and diversion. Hate. Racism, terrorism.

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euwe max June 22, 2015 at 5:23 pm

No. I didn’t mean that.

I meant, why not have background checks for the purchase of handguns?

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Duh June 22, 2015 at 11:55 am

you mean “earned her political stripes on her back in SC.” Fixed it for you. #CloseYourLegs

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