“… IF GOD CAN’T PROTECT A CHURCH, WHERE CAN HE PROTECT?”
|| By FITSNEWS || In times of tragedy, lots of people – even non-religious people – turn to prayer. And in the aftermath of this week’s deadly Charleston, S.C. church shooting, thousands did just that.
“I prayed for the first time in a long time,” one of our friends confided to us. “I did not know what else to do.”
That’s an entirely appropriate reaction in the face of unfathomable evil. Tragedies like this are far bigger than us – or our capacity for understanding – and they rightly/ reflexively compel us to seek out a higher power (and a higher wisdom) as our feeble brains try to make sense of things.
Unless of course you don’t believe a higher power exists …
Take the “secular humanist” response to the Charleston tragedy – which left nine people (including S.C. Senator Clementa Pinckney and his sister) dead.
(Click to enlarge)
Yeah …
Make note of the time stamp, too. This individual felt the need to offer her commentary roughly an hour after news of the shooting first broke.
Unreal …
68 comments
The U.S. is becoming a “secular country,” that there’s a clash between “man’s laws and God’s laws,” and even that our current president has launched a “war on religion.”
What is happening in America is an increasing hostility and intolerance toward Christian beliefs and values that many perceive to be an attack on religious freedom. In current American culture, you are free to be a Christian as long as you don’t actually live out your faith, vote your faith, take a stand in relation to your faith, or believe others should embrace your faith.
God may not have been able to protect the church however He will certainly protect His people in these difficult times.
24/7/365 courtesy of “race realists”
Our President IS a Christian. Just because he does not hold those of other faiths in disdain, does not make him anti-Christian.
It does in the eyes of “Christians” like Pogo.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
— Epicurus, philosopher (c. 341-270 BCE)
The only problem with Epicurus’s framework is that he doesn’t consider the necessary element of “Free Will” in any “god”‘s creation of of beings that are not automatons. In other words, he’s have to allow evil in order for his creations to be independent entities.
He sets up a framework that is a painted box that confines him. I say this as an agnostic, I’m not a believer.
Then let us kill each other all we want; what about natural evil? Do we have to be crushed in earthquakes, drowned in tidal waves, and burned by volcanoes too?
Reasonable point. One would presume in the Christian worldview that they would justify it because “we disobeyed” and note that wasn’t occurring in the “Garden of Eden”…..again…I don’t believe…but I’m just discussing.
Well, then I guess He is malevolent, unless you consider that He created the heaven and earth in which Epicurous got a chance to dwell. That part was pretty sweet.
You seem to be a liar. Christians can and routinely do vote their faith, and no one can stop you from believing you should convert others. The only thing that’s changed is that Christians don’t automatically get specially privileged by the government evey single time it’s an issue like they used to.
it has always been a secular country … ALLWAYS
“This individual felt the need to offer her commentary roughly an hour after news of the shooting first broke.”
Yea, well you used the incident to try to cement your argument for the death penalty before an hour even elapsed- so it would seem you are throwing stone from inside your glass house.
You two are leaders in the “poor taste” movement. (now granted, I’ve been there myself, but just sayin’)
None of this race bullshit really started back up until Obama took office (memories of his hate filled church in Chicago come to mind).
You’re right, I can’t remember any crime happening before Obama that was so racially charged.
Yep, the conservatives became overwhelmed with seething disbelief at the reality of a black president.
It’s funny to watch how the racists come out to blame the people they are prejudiced against for the likes of them being called out more and more.
Nice mischaracterization, SoftSigh. Sure, there are racists out there, but to make a wild-eyed, batsheit crazy blanket statement like that about conservatives shows you’re just trying to paint with a broad brush, and you’re failing. And you make yourself look like a logic-deprived hyperpartisan.
Lighten up a little and flush some of the hate out of your heart. Conservatives do not fit your mold. If you choose to think of all of them as racist, you are short changing yourself.
Conservatives (as well as many moderates and libertarians) don’t like/support Obama because of his policies and liberal positions, not because of his race.
You know, the same way you and most liberals don’t like Republican presidents because of their policies and liberal positions, not because of their race.
What a pleasant delusional world you live in. Somehow you don’t see the GOPer posts here! And their statements everywhere else. How do you miss them?
Somehow the broad brush metaphor has eluded you. Either that, or you just don’t want to accept the fact that you claim to know what ALL conservatives are thinking based on your encounters on this and other message boards and comments sections.
When you say “the conservatives became overwhelmed with seething disbelief…” you’re inferring “all” whether you mean to or not.
If that still goes over your head, grab some reasonably intelligent person with a high school education or at least two years of college and get them to explain it to you.
Here, read this slowly one mo’ time and try real hard; maybe even you can overcome your extreme partisanship and venture into the brave new world of logic and critical thinking:
______
Conservatives (as well as many moderates and libertarians) don’t like/support Obama because of his policies and liberal positions, NOT because of his race.
You know, the same way you and most liberals don’t like Republican presidents because of their policies and liberal
positions, NOT because of their race.
Many conservatives are more honest or more shameless than you and freely show their racist disdain–up to hate–for Obama. You apparently choose not to notice.
I choose to point you to the second sentence of the first paragraph in my initial response; I already agreed that racism exists.
It exists within all political groups, by the way… including yours.
But you just can’t fathom the concept that when you attempt to claim that all conservatives are racists since you have run into a finite number of racist conservatives online (and possibly real life).
That’s just crazy talk.
I’ve laid it out for you (how ridiculous and fallacious your assertion is). If you’d like to cling to it bitterly along with any other “facts” you can’t back up, you’re just making ALL Dem/libs look bad.
See how that works?
Correction: But you just can’t fathom the concept that when you attempt to claim
that all conservatives are racists since you have run into a finite
number of racist conservatives online (and possibly real life), *you’re overreaching wildly.*
You are the proof, the less intelligent people are the more likely they are to show it.
” Silence is a virtue for those who are not wise”.
“Just before the gunman started shooting, he told the congregation, “You
have to go,” witnesses told Sylvia Johnson, Pinckney’s cousin.
“He just said ‘I have to do it.’ He said, ‘You rape our women, and you’re taking over our country,’” she said on MSNBC, recounting what survivors told her.”
You’re a FOOL!!!
i bet you are white and male …. it has always sucked to be black in the US
I’m not going to start hating ON secular humanist.
How GOPer gunfondlers responded to this tragedy: “If only those ladies were packing Uzis or MAC10s in those big purses.”
How the GOPvangelicals responded to this tragedy: “It was really an attack on Christians. Black people aren’t the victims, WE are [as always].”
Everyone has an agenda…..
I’ve noticed a lot of Christians don’t really seem phased when they hear about attacks on random Muslims, or even against Sikhs who are mistaken for Muslims. For a bunch of people worried about religious persecution they sure don’t seem quite so concerned when violent acts are carried out against non Judeo-Christian religious people.
This website is infected with Christ hating contributors.Maybe he was a regular reader and just snapped?
I think that Pogo guy was probably the guy who snapped. They should look at him. He claims to be a Christian but that seems to be just a cover.
Some people love what Christ preached and hate how the practicing Christians have twisted and perverted it to serve mammon.
This website is infected with blac-hating contributors.Maybe he was a regular reader and just snapped?
If we were to believe many Christians, then it was “their time” and it is all part of “God’s plan.”
I don’t know about you guys but none of my plans in life involve 9 people being gunned down. If I had a plan that required blood to be spilled, I’d rethink that plan.
God is not going to protect you from bullets. But God can help you bear unspeakable tragedy. He can help you live without fear even when evil seems to reign. He can help you be an instrument of His love even when others would do you harm.
“God, is not going to protect you from bullets.”
Why is that?
It’s because he moves in mysterious ways.
And so does the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
You mean like allowing good people to be murdered by racist scum?
Actually, I should clarify that He may protect you from danger too, if that is His will. But if you desire to know God’s will, then I’d have to point you to His Word or to seek Him yourself through prayer. I suspect this answer will not not satisfy you, but I’m confident that no answer that attempts to exclude God will either.
Oh, I see. God wanted these people killed. Its part of his grand design. Now I get it? I think.
Bill, that’s a very flawed, logic-free position you’re holding (along with the secular humanists and atheists); “There is no reason to believe in (or seek) God because bad things happen.”
You just keep holding on to that logic. You’ll never be able to come up with anything more impenetrable, because bad things will keep happening.
Dude, that’s on the same level as a child who says his/her parents don’t love him because they didn’t give him/her everything he/she asked for at Christmas.
Be proud of yourself for nestling comfortably inside that conundrum. I’m sure it will serve you well.
“Dude, that’s on the same level as a child ”
true but we are talking about imaginary friends … and a child can always come up with a reason you can not see their friend or the things they do but they will attest that their friend is real and really does stuff when you do not look for it …
it is like a con man .. he tells you he is going to do something but you never see him do it but he guarantees you will see the good things later….. wink wink
One person’s callous response in this nightmarish crime is no different than the dozens of such responses to other horrific events by religious charlatans such as Pat Robertson, Bob Jones, Jerry Falwell or Franklin Graham.
Our country’s protection of religious freedom includes the protection of those who don’t believe in a Supreme Being.
“In times of tragedy, lots of people – even non-religious people – turn to prayer.”
Even non religious people? No we don’t!
As for the remainder of the article, I’m failing to see the point of it other than to demonstrate your first class cluelessness.
As a Secular Humanist myself my response is that my heart goes out to the families who lost their loved ones to this hate-filled shooter. I am glad that he is in custody now. I would like to offer some support to the community of Charleston, SC in their grief, either morally and/or financially, and would encourage my fellow Secular Humanists and atheists to do the same. But I wonder though if the faith community will accept that.
If you were determined to help, you could always make anonymous donations and make the issue of your atheism irrelevant.
Maybe Chirstians could make a habit of making the issue of their Christianity irrelevant to their charity too, for a change; if that’s supposed to be some sort of virtue.
I agree, it would appear to me to be a virtue.
That said, we HAVE started an indiegogo to help the families of the victims:http://www.fsmidlands.org/
Oh so atheists should be like little children, seen but not heard? I see how you are. Let’s make a deal. Stop making Christianity a dick of a religion by whipping it out of your pants and sticking it in my face everywhere I go (“Jesus Loves You, Have you got Jesus, you must be saved, God will judge you, look at me I am a Christian”) then I won’t bother you with the knowledge that I and my people actually exist, as opposed to your imaginary friend.
“Oh so atheists should be like little children, seen but not heard?”
Total strawman dude, but apology accepted regardless.
workin part-time on a pc at home I can see what your saying@mk2
…..
http://www.GlobalNetMoneyleep/tap/tab….
God’s Song by Randy Newman
Cain slew Abel, Seth knew not why
For if the children of Israel
Were supposed to multiply
Why must any of the children die?
So he asked the Lord and the Lord said
Man means nothing, he means less to me
Than the lowliest cactus flower
Or the humblest Yucca tree
Chases ’round this desert
‘Cause he thinks that’s where I’ll be
That’s why I love mankind
I recoil in horror from the foulness of thee
From the squalor and the filth and the misery
How we laugh up here in Heaven
At the prayers you offer me
That’s why I love mankind”
Christians and the Jews
Were having a jamboree
The Buddhists and the Hindus
Joined on satellite TV
Picked their four greatest priests
And they began to speak
They said, “Lord, a plague is on the world
Lord, no man is free
The temples that we built to You
Have tumbled into the sea
Lord, if You won’t take care of us
Won’t You please, please let us be?”
And the Lord said, and the Lord said
I burn down your cities, how blind you must be
I take from you your children
And you say how blessed are we
You all must be crazy to put your faith in me
That’s why I love mankind, you really need me
That’s why I love mankind
That comment was not by a secular humanist, it was by Heather Remy replying to the Secular Humanists. Secular Humanists would not attribute a theoretical god’s inability to protect her followers to a lying devil.
Hm. The Freethought Society of the Midlands and Secular Humanists of the Low Country have both raised thousands of dollars to assist the families of the slain. Maybe random posts aren’t actually reflective of the demographic being over-generalized about.
This sad veil of tears
Many many of you might believe
“This life is all there is”
And if you believe in the christian New Testament and the words and deeds of JESUS christ – well you know that there is hope of an immortal soul.
I grieve for those nine dead people but if you ask me – if you are murdered in a church- you go directly to heaven and sit at the right hand of God
I believe these people were as much martyrs as any great Saint
Whether you believe in evil as an entity or not. There is a spiritual rot in this world. The asshole who shot those nine fine people dead… Was the devils own right hand.
I don’t much care if you believe in good and evil as real and tangible …
There’s just a meanness in this world
And to deny that spiritual malaise is a real thing – you’re as bad as those who denied things were bad at Sodom & Gomorrah. But those who choose to deny … Don’t believe in Sodom & gommorah either.
The blame game is a terrible thing. I prefer not to point fingers. I prefer to think fondly of those who died too soon
Needlessly
You don’t have to be a believer.
That’s just a truism.
Welcome to hell Dylann roof. You earned it.
Race wars!?! Pure idiocy. I don’t think the 99% of Americans believe in this shit brained inanity
And if you think there is something after this life – rest assured those 9 folks are being taken good care of. This life is just a part of what we are.
What the Center for Inquiry, a Secular Humanist organization, had to say about the shooting. Read it and weep Fitsnews:
“In our day to day lives, it can be difficult to recognize the common humanity of those who are different from us, those who disagree with us, or those with whom we have little shared experience. In times of tragedy like this, with the senseless loss of nine of our fellow human beings in Charleston, those differences quickly evaporate into meaninglessness, and what we share in common shines brightly against the darkness. It is frustrating that it so often takes heartbreaking events such as this act of terror to make clear what unites us.
The victims of the shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church sought wisdom, strength, and community in a different way than those of us at the Center for Inquiry might. But regardless of our differing beliefs, these nine women and men were on the same journey as all of us, navigating our way through this life as best we can, weathering setbacks, celebrating triumphs, and trying to do so with kindness.
Differences in beliefs, politics, and values can be debated vigorously, and these exchanges should be opportunities to learn from one another, and see things from new points of view. Sadly, outrageously, a dangerous few are unable to see the humanity in others. Instead, they use their differences from others to validate a false feeling of superiority—whether racial, religious, or ideological— and to justify acts of violence and terror. As we oppose violence and persecution against our fellow nonbelievers and secularists around the world, so we stand with the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church and the people of Charleston in defiance of this attempt to strike fear into a community, and we call for those of all belief systems, naturalistic and theistic, progressive and orthodox, to make new efforts to find each other’s common humanity, and find ways to aid each other, no matter our differences, in our shared journey.”
What this person didn’t share was the unilaterally negative response to this comment in this group and the person who posted it sincerely apologizing and explaining why she posted what she did. Accept that apology or reject it, but don’t ignore that the woman recognized that she made a mistake.
Whoever wrote this post probably didn’t share that additional information because this was taken from a closed group for people who are concerned about their families and communities in South Carolina rejecting them for being non believers. So…I hope the increase of traffic was worth it I guess? But I’m sure the author will justify disregarding the privacy of a stranger they know nothing about because that stranger believes something different than the author evidently does and said something insensitive on Facebook in reaction to a tragedy, thus confirming the authors predetermined biases about the group with which that person associates.
Though the author’s disdain certainly didn’t seem to convince those commenting on this post, thankfully, since most people here obviously understand that a single comment from a single person taken out of context doesn’t define an entire group of people.
Well, that’s an interesting “news” story. However, the screenshot is a post from ONE person in a group with many people, and many active posters at that. If you would like to know about other postings in the secular humanist group, we had a thread with 57 responses about “action” that we can take to help the families, like bringing water bottles and flowers and planting trees. I probably didn’t view every single thread, but we had at least five other ones about anything we can do to help. A secular humanist in Columbia set up an Indigogo fund that was shared widely and raised four times his/our goal that will go DIRECTLY to helping the families pay for the funerals and any other needs. Anyway….much love and condolences to the families, friends, our community. The gravity of the murders weighs heavily on a lot of us, religious and nonreligious, so please don’t use this as a time for unwarranted division.
This group also raised a lot of money for the church in response to these shootings. This was one person’s thoughts about the quandary that comes up for non-believers when a tragedy happens, in a private group of fellow secular humanists. If someone is in that group who is not a secular humanist and was so offended by it that they took a screenshot and sent it to you to publish, they shouldn’t be in the group to begin with.
This is a non-issue.
how is a random posting from a single person considered the “secular humanists” response?
is this person in charge of all secular humanists?
is she a spokes person?
does she have anything to do with day to day operations?
can we now post a single random screen shot from someone who is religious and use that as an example of the “christian response” to the Charleston terrorist attack?
the “author” of this post did not display any of the rest of what that young lady wrote.
The “author” of this post did not talk about the ‘real’ good undertaken by the secular humanist community.
One can only walk away with the notion that SOME “Christians” aren’t interested in more than a fraction of the actual story.
This is the same group that came together and raised over $12000 for the families of the victims. This one person’s comments do not represent what all secular humanists think anymore than WBC represent all Christians. Secular humanists believe all life is precious and deserving of respect.
FITS New, the Breitbart of South Carolina. This isn’t a “blog,” it’s a cheap hit piece. Taking a person’s private musings from a closed group, out of context, and posting it is not something anyone but a complete bottom feeder would do. This sounds like a completely natural reaction, to me. I bet there were a few Christians also wondering where God was in this church, and wondering why bad things happen to good people. It’s not quite the scandalous remark you seem to think it is.