SC

Letter: Taking Confederate Flag Down “Not Going To Help” SC

Dear Editor, The decision to change the cosmetic character of a republic should be carried out by rational individuals. The selection of what should be observed as history in our republic should be discussed through the powers that be who are qualified to do that. Our republic is made for…

Dear Editor,

The decision to change the cosmetic character of a republic should be carried out by rational individuals. The selection of what should be observed as history in our republic should be discussed through the powers that be who are qualified to do that.

Our republic is made for everyone to settle with its history not for everyone to agree on it. Therefore, the Confederate Flag is a symbol in our rearview mirror that we have to look through on occasion to confirm that we are on the correct path to where we are supposed to be. We cannot let anyone who misinterprets our old flag raid us of the historical significance of a controversial period for all of the South and even America.

When we look back to the future that is off in the distance we can see that our Palmetto State flag can be marred by one of the worst hate crimes in American history and some of the worst ethical lapses on record by our elected officials in state history. So, we can never eradicate those mistakes at all from the public’s opinion and they are written as witnesses to what we need to improve on in our state. That is government ethics, racial relations, and unity amongst our citizens to help each other get to better days.

Taking down the flag because some people are misinterpreting, misusing, and misinforming themselves with non-comprehensive figures and facts is not going to help us emerge from the apparent abyss we are seen to be in this time.

Removing the flag from the State House grounds is proving our miseducation as citizens in illogical, irrational, and visceral discussions that will leave our state eluding the truth and as a consequence our dreams.

cooper

Jordan Cooper
Columbia, S.C.

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75 comments

flip July 7, 2015 at 9:32 am

Yawn boring story. My ‘sources’ have got me a scoop on a huge story that will blow the lid off the 2016 elections. They tell me Hillary is secretly stealing campaign money to run a daycare center for the muppet babies on the moon. BYE BYE HILLARY! DEOMCRATS ARE DONE IN 2016! LMAO!!!

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 9:45 am

Flagged as irrelevant to the topic.

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Inappropriate July 7, 2015 at 10:43 am

99% of what he writes is inappropriate, even if it is on topic.

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Soft Sigh from Hell July 7, 2015 at 9:32 am

The conservatives–the origins of so so many of South Carolina’s problems–relish the diversion of attention from these problems and from their hate-disciple Roof. Otherwise we might be talking about their Council of Conservative Citizens’ hate campaign, and the social environment of Lexington County’s White-Trash Knoll High School, and that every disgruntled kook has his guns. Conservatives love the diversion.

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Loud Trumpets from Heaven July 7, 2015 at 9:46 am

White Knoll looks pretty good by the statistics. Somehow I doubt WKHS had much to do with this idiots proclivities nor did the Confederate Flag, Golds Gym Shirts, or Hyundai Elantras.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/south-carolina/districts/lexington-01/white-knoll-high-17666

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Mr. Feelgood July 7, 2015 at 10:16 am

Nothing to do with Confederate Flag, Golds Gym or Hyundai… everything to do with psychotropic drugs. Thanks big pharma for playing a part in a large number of the mass slayings in the US over the past 20 years.

John Hinckley (1981) John Hinckley, age 25, took four Valium two hours before shooting and almost killing President Ronald Reagan in 1981. In the assassination attempt, Hinckley also wounded press secretary James Brady, Secret Service agent Timothy McCarthy and policeman Thomas Delahanty.

Laurie Dann (1988) In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann went on a shooting rampage in a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, IL, killing one child and wounding six. She had been taking the anti-depressant Anafranil as well as Lithium, long used to treat mania.

Patrick Purdy (1989) Patrick Purdy went on a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, CA, in 1989, which became the catalyst for the original legislative frenzy to ban “semiautomatic assault weapons” in California and the nation. The 25-year-old Purdy, who murdered five children and wounded 30, had been on Amitriptvine, an anti-depressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.

Joseph T. Wesbecker (1989) In another famous case, 47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Ky., killing nine. Prozac maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.

Kurt Danysh (1996) Kurt Danysh, 18, shot his own father to death in 1996, a little more than two weeks after starting on Prozac. Danvsh’s description of own his mental-emotional state at the time of the murder is chilling: “I didn’t realize I did it until after it was done.” Danysh said. “This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun.”

Michael Carneal (1997) In Paducah, KY, in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school’s lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.

Kip Kinkel (1998) Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Ore., and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (1999) Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox. Like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of anti-depressant drug called Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, or SSRIs. Harris and fellow student Dylan Klebold went on a hellish school shooting rampage in 1999, during which they killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others before turning their guns on themselves. Luvox manufacturer Solvav Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox – that’s one in 25 – developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.

Larry Gene Ashbrook (1999) On Sept. 15, 1999, Larry Gene Ashbrook murdered seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian Rock group Forty Days at Wedgwood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. Ashbrook then committed suicide. A doctor had prescribed the anti-depressant drug Prozac for Larry Gene Ashbrook, but investigators are unsure whether he was taking it when he killed seven people and then himself in a Fort Worth church last week, police said on Monday. Fort Worth’s Lt. Mark Krey, who is heading the investigation into the largest mass shooting in the city’s history, said police have found a Prozac vial in Ashbrook’s name and want to ask doctors why it was prescribed.

Michael McDermott (2000) The hulking computer technician accused of gunning down seven of his co-workers at a Wakefield high tech firm this week suffered from a host of mental illnesses – including schizophrenia – for which he was taking a trio of anti-depressants, a source told the Herald yesterday. “He’s got some serious psychological issues and a long (psychiatric) history,” the source said of 42-year-old Michael “Mucko” McDermott. McDermott, a divorced Navy veteran from Marshfield who lived most recently in Haverhill, suffered from severe depression, paranoia and schizophrenia, and had been in psychiatric treatment for some time, according to the source who spoke on condition of anonymity. To cope with his mental disorders, McDermott was prescribed several Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, or SSRIs are designed to increase brain serotonin. Low levels of brain serotonin can lead to depression and anxiety disorders.

Christopher Pittman (2001) 12-year-old Christopher Pittman struggled in court to explain why he murdered his grandparents, who had provided the only love and stability he’d ever known in his turbulent life. “When I was lying in my bed that night,’ he testified, “I couldn’t sleep because my voice in my head kept echoing through my mind telling me to kill them.” Christopher had been angry with his grandfather, who had disciplined him earlier that day for hurting another student during a fight on the school bus. So later that night, he shot both of his grandparents in the head with a .410 shotgun as they slept and then burned down their South Carolina home, where he had lived with them. “I got up, got the gun, and I went upstairs and I pulled the trigger,” he recalled. “Through the whole thing, it was like watching your favorite TV show. You know what is going to happen, but you can’t do anything to stop it.” Pittman’s lawyers would later argue that the boy had been a victim of “involuntary intoxication” since his doctors had him taking the antidepressants Paxil and Zoloft just prior to the murders. Paxil’s known adverse drug reactions according to the drug’s FDA approved label include mania, insomnia, anxiety, agitation, confusion, amnesia, depression, paranoid reaction, psychosis, hostility, delirium, hallucinations, abnormal thinking, depersonalization and lack of emotion, among others.

Andrea Yates (2001) Andrea Yates, in one of the most heartrending crimes in modern history, drowned all five of her children – aged 7 years down to 6 months – in a bathtub. Insisting inner voices commanded her to kill her children. She had become increasingly psychotic over the course of several years. At her 2006 murder re-trial (after a 2002 guilty verdict was overturned on appeal), Yates’ longtime friend Debbie Holmes testified: “She asked me if I thought Satan could read her mind and if I believed in demon possession?” And Dr. George Ringhoiz, after evaluating Yates for two days, recounted an experience she had after the birth of her first child: ”What she described was feeling a presence … Satan … telling her to take a knife and stab her son Noah,” Ringhoiz said, adding that Yates’ delusion at the time of the bathtub murders was not only that she had to kill her children to save them, but that Satan had entered her and that she had to be executed in order to kill Satan. Yates had been taking the anti-depressant Effexor.

In November 2005, more than four years after Yates drowned her children, Effexor manufacturer Wyeth Pharmaceuticals quietly added “homicidal ideation” to the drug’s list of “rare adverse events.” The Medical Accountability Network, a private nonprofit focused on medical ethics issues, publicly criticized Wyeth, saying Effexor’s “homicidal ideation” risk wasn’t well-publicized and that Wyeth failed to send letters to doctors or issue warning labels announcing the change. And what exactly does “rare” mean in the phrase “rare adverse events?” The FDA defines it as occurring in less than one in 1.000 people. But since that same year 19.2 million prescriptions for Effexor were filled in the U.S., statistically that means thousands of Americans might experience “homicidal ideation” – murderous thoughts -as a result of taking just this one brand of anti-depressant drug. Effexor is Wyeth’s best-selling drug, by the way, which in one recent year brought in over $3 billion in sales, accounting for almost a fifth of the company’s annual revenues.

Jeff Weise (2005) In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise, living on Minnesota’s Red Lake Indian Reservation, shot and killed nine people and wounded five others before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac.

Terry Michael Ratzmann (2005) Terry Michael Ratzmann killed seven members of the Living Church of God (LCG) before committing suicide at a Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield, WI in 2005. On the verge of losing his job as a computer technician with a placement firm, Ratzmann was known to suffer from bouts of depression, and was reportedly infuriated by a sermon the minister had given two weeks earlier. Ratzmann’s autopsy revealed that he was suffering from Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. Hashimoto’s thyroiditis very often results in hypothyroidism with bouts of hyperthyroidism. Symptoms of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis include Myxedematous psychosis, weight gain, depression, mania, sensitivity to heat and cold, paresthesia, fatigue, panic attacks, bradycardia, tachycardia, high cholesterol, reactive hypoglycemia, constipation, migraines, muscle weakness, cramps, memory loss, infertility and hair loss.

Seung-Hui Cho (2007) Seung-Hui Cho was a Korean spree killer who killed 32 people and wounded 17 others on April 16, 2007, at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia. He was a senior-level undergraduate student at the university. The shooting rampage came to be known as the “Virginia Tech massacre.” Cho later committed suicide after law enforcement officers breached the doors of the building where the majority of the shooting had taken place. His body is buried in Fairfax, Va., In middle school, he was diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder known as Selective Mutism, as well as major depressive disorder. After this diagnosis he began receiving treatment and continued to receive therapy and special education support until his junior year of high school. During Cho’s last two years at Virginia Tech, several instances of his abnormal behavior, as well as plays and other writings he submitted containing references to violence, caused concern among teachers and classmates. In the aftermath of the Virginia Tech massacre, Virginia Governor Tim Kaine convened a panel consisting of various officials and experts to investigate and examine the response and handling of issues related to the shootings. The panel released its final report in August 2007, devoting more than 30 pages to detailing Cho’s troubled history. In the report, the panel criticized the failure of the educators and mental health professionals who came into contact with Cho during his college years to notice his deteriorating condition and help him. Like the perpetrators of both the Columbine and Jokela school massacres, Cho was prescribed the anti-depressant drug Prozac prior to his rampage, a substance suspected by Peter Breggin and David Healy of leading to suicidal behaviors.

Robert Hawkins (2007) Robert Hawkins also had problems controlling his temper, as outcast-types with no anchor tying them to the rest of society sometimes do. Robert Hawkins had a prescription for and was taking anti-depressants. Maribel Rodriguez said her son’s life had been a challenge from the start. She divorced Hawkins’ father when the boy was 3-years-old, she said, and by 5 he was taking prescription Ritalin and Zoloft. He became a ward of the state in 2002 after apparently threatening his stepmother. He was moved through facilities and foster homes for several years, until he was released in 2005. Two weeks before the shooting rampage, Hawkins parted ways with his girlfriend. Hawkins killed eight people before turning a gun on himself and committing suicide.

Steven Kazmierczak (2008) Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing six and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. Jessica Baty said that her boyfriend of two years had been taking Xanax, used to treat anxiety and Ambien, a sleep agent, as well as the anti-depressant Prozac. Baty said the psychiatrist prescribed the medications, a fact that made her so “nervous” that she tried to persuade Kazmierczak to stop taking one of the drugs. She said he had stopped taking the anti-depressant three weeks before the Valentine’s Day rampage on the NIU campus in DeKalb, Illinois, which left five students dead and 16 wounded. He then killed himself. Kazmierczak told her he had stopped taking the anti-depressant “because it made him feel like a zombie,” she said during the interview Sunday at her parents’ house in Wonder Lake, Il. “He wasn’t acting erratic. He was just a little quicker to get annoyed.” Kazmierczak had a history of mental illness and revered figures like Adolf Hitler and Ted Bundy. Steven Kazmierczak even wore a tattoo depicting Jigsaw, the Saw films’ sadistic narrator, and had a history of attempted suicide. NIU police say they never got wind of such warnings. “How could it be a red flag if it never came to us?” said the university’s police chief. But David Vann, who culled the information on Kazmierczak for a book about the shootings said the writing was on the wall. Kazmierczak had been hospitalized several times for mental illness and was known as “Strange Steve” by roommates. “What does a mass murderer have to do to get noticed?” asked Vann.

Robert Stewart (2009) Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison. Richard Wagner, a toxicologist with the State Bureau of Investigations, testified that blood samples taken from Robert Stewart hours after the shooting show he had several prescription drugs in his system. Wagner told jurors Stewart was reported to have the antidepressant Lexipro, sleep-aid Ambien, Benadryl, and possibly Xanax in his blood system on March 29, 2009. Wagner said he was unable to determine the amount of each drug that was found in Stewart’s blood stream because the time these drugs can stay in a person’s system can vary.

Jared Loughner (2011) Former Rep. Gabby Giffords, D-Ariz., was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 people were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole. Loughner’s plea spares him the death penalty and came soon after a federal judge found that months of forcibly medicating him to treat his schizophrenia had made the 23-year-old college dropout competent to understand the gravity of the charges and assist in his defense.

Eduardo Sencion (2011) Eduardo Sencion entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, Nev., and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members. According to CBS affiliate KTVN, the shooter’s motive was unclear, but family members said he had mental issues. He had never been in the military and had no known affiliation with anyone inside the restaurant. Investigators said his family first became aware of mental health issues when Sencion complained about being harassed by co-workers. He sought treatment when his employer told the family he was becoming increasing paranoid. Family members said Sencion took his medication, and all but one of his mental health commitments were voluntary. The report did not say how many times Sencion was hospitalized. But Sencion told his family he avoided intimate relationships because he feared “he would father a child and pass along his illness.” He immersed himself in the Bible, and gave his mother keys to his gun safe, warning her he was “getting sick.”He thought people were demons trying to hurt him, and began hearing voices telling him to do “bad things” to people. Sencion’s medications were changed this summer. About a month later, he approached a priest in the street and asked him for help, telling the priest, “They’re telling me to do bad things.” The night before the shootings, Sencion, who lived with family members, took his medication at 10 p.m. Everything appeared normal the next morning. His last comment to his family was, “I should have gone to work today.”

Scott Evans Dekraai (2012) Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, Calif. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing. At Dekraai’s Oct. 14 arraignment hearing, which at the request of defense attorney Robert Curtis was continued to Nov. 29 so he would have more time to prepare, the lawyer asked Judge Erick L. Larsh to order jail officials to give his client a prescribed anti-psychotic medicine and access to a “spinal cord stimulator” he has needed since his 2007 boat accident. Larsh instead ordered a medical evaluation of Dekraai to see what medicine he might need, leaving it up to the Orange County Sheriff’s Department jailers to decide what was appropriate.

Thomas “TJ” Lane (2012) Three students were killed by Thomas “TJ” Lane, another student, in a rampage at Chardon High School in Chardon, Ohio. Three others were injured. In hindsight, it is also easy to see how violence was part of his family. During his infancy, his parents Thomas Lane Jr. and Sara Nolan were reportedly each charged with domestic abuse against each other. Later arrest charges for Thomas Lane Jr. include assaulting a police officer, domestic abuse against another woman who fathered his children and attempted murder. The attempted-murder charge was dropped, but in 2002-03 he served eight months of a four-year sentence for strangling a woman until she lost consciousness, holding her face under running water and bashing her head against a wall. By the time TJ Lane was in elementary school, he was living with his maternal grandparents, Jack and Carol Nolan, who had also taken in his older brother Adam Nolan and a sister. But violence followed him there too. Records indicate that police arrested Adam, 19, multiple times for disorderly conduct, theft and other crimes related to his abuse of prescription drugs and heroin, including several overdoses. (Adam apparently was released into the custody of his grandparents who reportedly said they would try to get him treatment.) On Dec. 9, 2009, during his parents’ divorce proceedings, Lane and Nolan, then 15 and 16, were arrested for assault, after getting into a fight with an uncle who had gone to the house.

Ian Stawicki (2012) Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, Wash., killing five and himself after a citywide manhunt. The father of the sole surviving victim, the cafe’s chef, told Reuters that police detectives had said the gunman was known to have had “psychiatric problems” and caused a disturbance at the coffee house a few days earlier. The sole surviving victim was identified as Leonard Meuse, 46, the cafe chef, who was hit by at least one bullet that pierced a lung, grazed his liver and a kidney but missed his heart, his father, Raymond Meuse, told Reuters. The gunman, he said, “was a person who has psychiatric problems and had been disruptive there (at the cafe) a few days earlier, detectives told me.”

James Holmes (2012) During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colo., 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater. The Denver Post reported Jan. 7 that, according to newly released court papers, police removed a number of prescription medication bottles – four, to be exact – from Holmes’ apartment shortly after clearing it of explosives in the days following the July 20 shootings. They also seized immunization records. “The disclosures come in a back-and-forth between prosecutors and defense attorneys over whether those items should be subject to doctor-patient confidentiality. The judge ultimately ruled in October that prosecutors could keep the items,” the paper said, adding that the names of the medications had been redacted from court documents. This shouldn’t come as a huge surprise to anyone who’s been following the correlation between these dangerous psychotropic drugs and mass murder. After all, earlier reports confirmed that Holmes was indeed being seen by a psychiatrist [http://www.nytimes.com], so there’s a better-than-average chance that he, too was on one of these dangerous medications. With a fix for “altering his state of mind,” the ‘Batman shooter’ was heavily hooked on the prescription painkiller Vicodin. Holmes even reportedly dosed up on a pharmaceutical cocktail just before the shooting. Side effects of Vicodin use, even at ‘recommended’ levels which Holmes likely far exceeded, include ‘altered mental states’ and ‘unusual thoughts or behavior.’

Andrew Engeldinger (2012) Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, Minn. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself. A police search of the home of Accent Signage Systems shooter Andrew Engeldinger found medications commonly prescribed for depression and insomnia, according to a Minneapolis Police Department report. Police found prescription bottles for two anti-depressant medications. Mirtazapine and Trazodone, and for Temazepam, a medication used to treat insomnia, in Engeldinger’s home. They also found many empty prescription bottles, including 18 empty prescription bottles for a generic form of the anti-depressant drug Wellbutrin. According to the police report, all of the prescriptions bottles bore Engeldinger’s name.

Adam Lanza (2012) On Friday morning, 27 people were reportedly shot and killed at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Conn. According to sources, 18 of these casualties were children. New York Magazine wrote a piece about shooter Adam Lanza’s supposed “aspergers” syndrome. Inside the piece though, they report Adam Lanza’s uncle said the boy was prescribed Fanapt, a controversial anti-psychotic medicine.

In fact, Fanapt was dropped by its first producer, picked up by another, initially rejected by the FDA, then later picked up and mass produced. The adverse side-effect is said to be “infrequent,” but still it exists, and can’t be ignored. The reaction invoked by the drug in some people is reminiscent of the Jeffrey R. MacDonald case, where a Green Beret slaughtered his entire family and then fabricated a story about a marauding troop of “hopped up hippies.” MacDonald though, had Eskatrol in his system, a weight-loss amphetamine that’s since been banned in part for its side effects of psychotic behavior and aggression.

These drugs are not the only ones that can cause the opposite of their desired effect. Several anti-depressant medications are also restricted to adults, for the depression they inspire in kids rather than eliminate.

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Soft Sigh from Hell July 7, 2015 at 10:26 am

Disturbed people on medicine for disturbed people do crazy things. I think I’d suspect their minds first and not their medicines.

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Mr. Feelgood July 7, 2015 at 10:43 am

“Several anti-depressant medications are also restricted to adults, for the depression they inspire in kids rather than eliminate.”

I watched my ex-wife’s mental state rapidly decline when her psychiatrist started “adjusting” her medications. She changed her depression medications several times, added adderall for “focus” and Lunesta so she could sleep. At the end of this little science project, she was a complete mess of a person. They call it “practicing medicine”, in large part, because no matter what highbrow prefix a doctor has behind his or her name, at the end of the day they are just practicing. Many of them don’t have the experience to treat severely mentally ill patients.

Soft Sigh from Hell July 7, 2015 at 11:00 am

Unfortunately, I’ve read similar stories.

Finding real experts is not easy.

Soft Sigh from Hell July 7, 2015 at 10:23 am

Roof’s young friends or acquaintances have publicly stated that he changed for the worse after moving to that high school.

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CorruptionInColumbia July 7, 2015 at 9:35 am

Jordan Cooper, thank you for an excellent writing on this topic! I hope you offer to run for the Legislature in your district. If you are in my district, you will get my vote.

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Jordan Cooper's Wrong Again July 7, 2015 at 9:40 am

How many years have we been arguing over this stupid flag? Taking it down will end that. Those that don’t like it can feel free to fly one on their own property and the rest of society can finally just move on. We have been wasting so much time on this damn flag that we aren’t even talking about important matters that do need solutions, like our crumbling roads. Take it down and get it over with.

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Fecal Matters July 7, 2015 at 9:57 am

Taking it down will only temporarily muffle debate over EVERYTHING symbolic of the confederacy. Next it will be statues, street names, buildings, etc. Racial tension is a business and business is good.

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flip July 7, 2015 at 9:58 am

You got it and why Haley was wrong.

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Nikki Haley July 7, 2015 at 10:42 am

You’re wrong. That flag is coming down.

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 10:02 am

No one gives a rats butt about your street names, buildings, statues. You can keep your statue of Uncle Festus in Pelion until the peanuts rot in the ground for all I care.

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The Colonel July 7, 2015 at 10:17 am

Ehh, there is already a move afoot to do some of this.

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 10:25 am

Yeah, but it’s a fringe.

Movements July 7, 2015 at 10:41 am

There are a ton of silly movements all over the nation for all kinds of stupid causes that never take off. Just like some of the commenters here trying to stoke a movement to remove the African American monument from the State House grounds in response to this flag controversy. They’ll never amount to shit.

The flag coming down should be the final blow to this issue, I don’t foresee any other legitimate complaints coming forward that will amount to anything.

flip July 7, 2015 at 10:55 am

The American Flag is next. It is already happening.

Nikki Haley July 7, 2015 at 11:32 am

You’re right, I’m trying to replace it with India’s flag.

Dudd Farteen July 7, 2015 at 11:39 am

Just as long as it’s not the LGBT/Pedophile Rainbow Flag.

Rocky July 7, 2015 at 12:17 pm

Why, did you take yours down? Commie.

guest July 7, 2015 at 10:30 am

Rocky knows that. Check his website out:

http://www.elrockohatesusaburnabigfattyandflag.com

Rocky July 7, 2015 at 12:17 pm

You’re so wrapped in little ole’ me you built me a website? Bless your heart.

Who Cares July 7, 2015 at 10:37 am

People will whine about little things but the flag coming down is a death knell to all this crybaby crap about a “racist flag flying on the State House grounds” once and for all. There are confederate monuments all over the state so no one is really going to care.

Besides, the pro-confederate flag types are complaining about the black memorial (not racist!!!) so those guys are already being whiny bitches about monuments before anyone else.

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swampland July 7, 2015 at 9:41 am

The use of the Confederate flag by racist groups in recent years is consistent with what it represented during the Civil War. There has been no recent addition of hate to a flag that was pure in a previous time. It has always been a flag of hate.

The founding document of the Confederacy shows that it was created to preserve a system in which a white person could legally a black person. Read the reasons given, in writing, by the State of South Carolina when it seceded in 1860. According to the people who seceded, it was all about the slavery:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 9:44 am

A well thought out argument sir, however, that argument cannot overshadow this simple fact – in the days after the tragic shooting of nine innocent church members in Charleston, including State Senator Pinkney, that flag, so glorified by some, the very flag the shooter wrapped himself in to justify his killing spree, remained at full staff. Every member of the State Senate, who that very Thursday morning mourned the loss of the own friend, left the State House that evening to see that even through our state banner and the Stars and Stripes were lowered in respect, the Confederate Flag, Dylann’s primary symbol for his beliefs, flew high and strong. To allow that Flag, Dylann’s symbol, to fly high, says that in the end, Dylann is vindicated. His symbol, continues to fly. He in effect, has won. And that sir, is entirely unacceptable to the vast majority of South Carolina residents. The flag must be removed.

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flip July 7, 2015 at 9:48 am

Great post!

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 9:52 am

Thanks man.My new boyfriend bought me some new Speedo’s and we are off to meet Max for a flag burning.

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Mamatiger July 7, 2015 at 9:53 am

Morning Flip!

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Stand Back! He's Crazy Man! July 7, 2015 at 10:32 am

Careful guys, he might sue you for hurting his fee fees!

Rocky July 7, 2015 at 10:00 am

Did I mention my new boyfriend is Flip? We were so happy with the SCOTUS ruling last week. He said he’s going to show me his SCOTUS.

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GrandTango July 7, 2015 at 10:03 am

Hi Flip!

Constitutional! July 7, 2015 at 10:33 am

It is his right as an American to marry whoever he loves! God bless America!

flip July 7, 2015 at 9:50 am

So the illegal immigrant that murdered the girl in SF is vindicated by continuing to allow ILLEGAL sanctuary cities?

You this fucking dumb?

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 9:57 am

First you say great post just below and now call me stupid. Bipolar much? Judging from your Hillary post much further down the page you have obviously “flipped.” Flip/pogo = WRONG! NO CREDIBILITY!

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Deported Five Times July 7, 2015 at 10:30 am

He was sent back 5 times and came back every time. You this fucking dumb?

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flip July 7, 2015 at 10:53 am

He said he came to San Francisco because it was a Sanctuary City and the local law enforcement wouldn’t turn him over to the feds.

Checkmate!

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Check Again July 7, 2015 at 11:28 am

Deported five times, that means he illegally entered this country six times. Deportation doesn’t do shit if you can’t keep them out.

flip July 7, 2015 at 11:34 am

No.A sanctuary city CAN”T turn an illegal over to the feds unless they kill someone.

Wonder how long before Obama and Lynch release him?

Bullwinkle July 7, 2015 at 9:51 am

This has been explained multiple times and obviously you are too fucking dense to understand it.

The flag pole at the MEMORIAL is not setup to allow it to fly half staff and there was no legal mechanism to allow for it to be moved to half staff. The flag still continued to fly well below any flag on the dome.

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Rocky July 7, 2015 at 9:59 am

Bullwinkle – I’m full aware of the lack of mechanical and legal mechanism to lower it – that was the point. That’s what upset Davis and other members of the Senate. That the flag could not, by law, even show respect to those who were killed – making it – not much of a real flag at all.

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Daniel Boome July 7, 2015 at 3:52 pm

So if it was properly constructed and could have been lowered to half staff, that would change your view on whether it should be up or down?

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Fecal Matters July 7, 2015 at 9:47 am

It’s a whole lot easier to change a flagpole than it is to change people. This will do nothing for race relations. Taking the flag down will not stop the self fulfilling prophecy of the down trodden and disenfranchised. Hate filled blacks and whites will continue to be hate filled. The people, on both sides of the debate, who benefit from racial tension will have to find another symbol to obsess about. Wow, the flag is coming down… big deal.

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Nölff July 7, 2015 at 9:56 am

This is like the line that goes “I’m not racist. I have a lot of black friends (actually knows just 2 at work)”… but in reverse. Flag supporters who deny racism will be all “See! it’s not racist because a black guy said it”.

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Daniel Boome July 7, 2015 at 10:03 am

Pretty sure that neither “race” nor “racism” was mentioned once in this guy’s article. It was just a straight-forward cut down of the mob mentality that either the anti-flag people are a part of are that they buy into. Nevertheless, having to be constantly subjected to accusations of racism by liberals just for having an alternative opinion may lead to what you describe, not actual racism that you liberals so often to resort to accusing those people of. Any thoughts on the actual article?

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Cooter Brown July 7, 2015 at 10:06 am

heads ye win, tales we loose? yankee logick at it best!

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Yee-Hah! July 7, 2015 at 10:15 am

Cooter’s back!

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Cooter Brown July 7, 2015 at 10:22 am

I lurk mostlie these days.
I’m kinda like a redneck nero, pickin my banjo while I watch dixie burn…

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flip July 7, 2015 at 9:56 am

Removing the flag from the State House grounds is proving our miseducation as citizens in illogical, irrational, and visceral discussions that will leave our state eluding the truth and as a consequence our dreams.
Read more at https://www.fitsnews.com/2015/07/07/letter-taking-confederate-flag-down-not-going-to-help-sc/#OYDDIrpfESgyTBuv.99

Jordan, well done. I translated this for the race baiters on here.It took guts to put your face and name on here.

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Nikki Haley July 7, 2015 at 10:35 am

Whatever, I’m taking that flag down with my pen. Get over it.

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Charlotte July 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm

Jordan – Thanks for your clear and logical comments and I think you represent the sentiments of most people. I have a wonderful 70-year old lady who helps me with housekeeping and who is black. She said this morning, “What’s the problem with youth these days? Have they been raised differently?” She said, “We never had these problems growing up.” She said that she has never viewed the Confederate Flag as offensive.

I was born a Yankee but have been in the South for a number of years. I have no problem with the Confederate Flag flying on Statehouse grounds or other objects or symbols that show us times past. And I fully believe that most people do not find the Flag objectionable.

When I see the Confederate Flag flying on Statehouse grounds or posted at someone’s residence or mounted on a vehicle, it brings to my mind people who are proud and passionate of their heritage, citizens who stand up for principles and are not afraid to speak their mind, folks who are the “salts of the earth.” Sadly, those people are few and far between these days. I am truly concerned that the politicians who we elected to represent us and who are acting so quickly, seemed to have caved to political pressure — to the detriment of our sense of freedom. History is being re-written. What is next to go?

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flip July 7, 2015 at 9:59 am

My ‘sources’ have got me a scoop on a huge story that will blow the lid off the 2016 elections. They tell me Hillary is secretly stealing campaign money to run a daycare center for the muppet babies on the moon. BYE BYE HILLARY! DEOMCRATS ARE DONE IN 2016! LMAO!!!

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tomstickler July 7, 2015 at 10:07 am

Jordan Cooper is correct that removal of the flag will not cure the problems of South Carolina by itself. It is a step in the right direction that must not be diverted if we are to prove Petigru’s prophesy false: “Too small to be a Republic, too large to be an asylum.”

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Nurse Ratched July 7, 2015 at 11:09 am

In case you haven’t been paying attention, then entire country is turning into one big cuckoo’s nest.

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Eh July 7, 2015 at 10:12 am

Eloquent nonsense.

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Rrrright July 7, 2015 at 10:45 am

Profound followup statement.

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Ted E Bear July 7, 2015 at 10:23 am

What in the hell do you think yer doin? You all think this is one big joke. Well its time to wake up! Pookie and rayray are mobilizing right now, and if they don’t get the vote they want, they will be riding on a lot of hoods. And its going to be ugly. Deliverance ugly. Deliverance starring richard roundtree as the ‘just like a hog’ man…. And a toothless jessie jackson leveling the shotgun and commenting about a ‘purty mouth’.

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ELCID July 7, 2015 at 10:28 am

Great comment. There needs to be a complete sit down discussion about this entire situation. Similar to what happened in South Africa after Apartheid ended under Nelson Mandela. Until everyone has their say, and mutual respect is restored, we will continue to have these types of crimes against each other.

Note, the USA Flag was used at WACO, and again to justify Oklahoma City. Plus, over and over again in major criminal massacres. Yet, no one seems to want to take down that flag. In other words: it’s not the flags that are important. It’s what’s in each other’s hearts.

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U-R-An-Idiot July 7, 2015 at 11:06 am

Yeah: I’m sure if you give the Democrat race-hate squads all that they demand and then some, they’ll shut the fuck up, straighten up, love the country that has given them so much, and begin to be productive. That has worked so well, to date.
You are a fucking idiot.

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Look in the mirror racist fool July 7, 2015 at 11:03 am

You Delusional Fucking idiot: The media and the Democrat Party feed you the myths under which you live, but most of us know how full of shit you are.

You, and Obama, got caught lying in Ferguson, NYC and Baltimore. But you still walk around like a fucking fool, spewing your trace-hate bullshit.

Check out these headlines:

POLICE DENY BRUTAL BEATING OF WHITE MAN BY BLACK MOB WAS RACIALLY MOTIVATED…

Six-times deported illegal charged in felony hit-and-run…

High on pot… Young children hospitalized…

CDC official called Obama ‘Marxist,’ ‘amateur’ over border surge…

Your party is ridiculous, because of dumbasses like you. And exploiting the death of the Charleston Christians will not save you.

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GT's Missing @#$%*& Keys July 7, 2015 at 11:31 am

Drudge Report? We know it is you, GrandTango.

Everyone give him credit though, he’s no longer censoring his swears!

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flip July 7, 2015 at 11:32 am

California Attorney General Kamala Harris, a former San Francisco district attorney who is running for U.S. Senate, cautioned “our policy should not be informed by our collective outrage about one man’s conduct.”

She said this about the illegal immigration murder.Policy shouldn’t be driven by a madman.

Yet Democrats used ‘one man’s conduct in SC to take down a flag that had nothing to do with the shootings in Charleston.

Democrats are immoral liars.

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Manray9 July 7, 2015 at 11:05 am

The “cosmetic character of a republic?” Does he mean SC? Is it a spin on Petigru? The state of South Carolina has chosen to fly the Confederate flag. It isn’t a republic. Our republic is the United States of America. Our flag is the Stars and Stripes. The Confederate flag represents, not only racial intolerance, but failed acts of treason against our republic. Treason shouldn’t be celebrated.

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Crooner July 7, 2015 at 11:09 am

The confederate flag will continue to fly in SC. Just not at the State House.
Symbols are important, particularly when they are government sponsored. The flying of that flag in a position of government authority confers, in the minds of many, tacit approval of the racism it has come to represent. Our “better government” will no longer do that. Does that make it all rainbows and unicorns for race relations in the state? Of course not, but it removes a substantial impediment.

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Substantial impediment? July 7, 2015 at 10:27 pm

“but it removes a substantial impediment”

Pure fantasy.

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Railroad66 July 7, 2015 at 11:15 am

How about those gray uniforms the highway patrol honor guard was wearing during Sen. Pinckney’s memorial? It looked like a confederate honor guard with the exception of the campaign hats, that should be changed also.

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U R being used July 7, 2015 at 11:37 am

Jordan, media robots like FITSNews and The State newspaper will smile in your face, and pat you on the back. But until they tell you to shut the fuck up, and begin the GIVE, instead always begging others to make you whole, they are doing you no favors.

The truth is, your anger is caused by your selfishness and illogical and misplaced hate.

You’re told by those who use you, that you are discriminated against. And you are too ignorant to observe for yourself. If you look at what this country has done for you, based on your race, only, you should get down on your knees and thank God you are here.

You should also go up to every white person you ever see, and thank them for letting you have it easier than the people who actually make the country work.

Whining and looking for a boogey-white-man benefits lazy and greedy liberal politicians. But to get used makes you look stupid. Think for yourself and you can become enlightened. And maybe then you can begin to be free. Until then, you’ll wallow in your bondage of ignorance.

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CorruptionInColumbia July 7, 2015 at 11:44 am

Did you even read what the man wrote?

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Squishy123 July 7, 2015 at 12:24 pm

They’ll just find another excuse of the man holding them down.

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Speak D Truth July 7, 2015 at 12:47 pm

This really has accomplished nothing positive. One side has become emboldened and the other side has become enraged. While most of us could care less, we are just worried that the match has been moved closer to the fuse. But that would have happened no matter which way the vote went. Until we have a real discussion about how to end racism committed by both races then we cannot have true unity.

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Speak D Truth July 7, 2015 at 1:12 pm

I think they should have left the flag at the memorial alone and went after anything named after Ben Tillman. There may be a legitimate claim that the flag represents heritage and respect for the ancestors. There is even an argument to be made that they war wasn’t primarily about slavery or racism. But there is no claim to be made that honoring Tillman’s legacy would be honoring anything short of cruel, murderous, racism.

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west_rhino July 7, 2015 at 1:51 pm

In the same vein as self branding homosexuals as “gay” or atheists as “bright”, the knee jerk reaction that denied the UDC to retain copyright of the Confederate flag, stemming some assignment of a hate symbol to it, we have another touchy feely action that signifies nothing. ‘course Chicago didn’t need a Confederate flag to have thugs murder nine and wound 58 over the weekend of the 4th.

Keep an eye on some “hate groups” borrowing the same tactics, like listing Southern Poverty Law Center among another register of “hate groups”.

Reckon’ someone will enforce RICO statutes on NAACP, Operation Push and Code Pink?

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intlet9949 July 7, 2015 at 3:00 pm

“Our republic is made for everyone to settle with its history not for everyone to agree on it. ”
Huh?

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