SC Episcopalians Go Gay

WELL … SOME OF THEM For those of you who haven’t been following our coverage of the great South Carolina Episcopalian “schism,” you can read the latest by CLICKING HERE. As far as we’re concerned it’s a silly story … one in which a handful aggressively pro- or anti-gay agitators…


For those of you who haven’t been following our coverage of the great South Carolina Episcopalian “schism,” you can read the latest by CLICKING HERE.

As far as we’re concerned it’s a silly story … one in which a handful aggressively pro- or anti-gay agitators have effectively hijacked the narrative on both sides.

So far most of the drama has centered around the breakaway Lowcountry Episcopal Diocese (a conservative denomination officially known as “The Episcopal Church of South Carolina”) and its battle with the liberal national Episcopal Church.

The Lowcountry Diocese is upset at the national church for forcing it to accept its progressive views on gay marriage and the ordination of gay and female clergy. And so it seceded from the national church … prompting an ongoing legal battle.

Now the South Carolina Diocese that oversees the Midlands and Upstate regions of the Palmetto State is making waves – announcing its decision to permit individual congregations to determine whether they wish to bless homosexual unions. Obviously such blessings do not include gay marriage – which remains illegal in South Carolina.

Clergy in the Diocese don’t have to perform the ritual if they don’t want to …

The Bishop issuing this ruling – the Rt. Rev. W. Andrew Waldo – seems to think he has taken some courageous, principled and Biblically sound position.

We disagree … on all counts. Working backward, Waldo is not following any doctrine we’re familiar with … he’s also “pulling a Pilate” by washing his hands of a contentious issue (ostensibly so as not to upset anyone).

Isn’t there some passage of Scripture in which the followers of Jesus Christ are exhorted to either answer “yes, yes” or “no, no?” And instructed that anything beyond such definitive answers is “of the devil” and will result in “condemnation?”

Actually there are two such passages (Matthew 5:37 and James 5:12).

However on one key point we agree with Waldo: He is absolutely correct in his contention that decisions of this nature are best left to individual congregations.

Like it or not, religion is a marketplace – except instead of products and profits it features sacraments and tithes. In both instances, though, numbers matter – and congregations will either gain or lose members (and their money) based on how they address the burning issues of the day.

And this is one issue churches must address – because at the end of the day marriage is a Biblical institution, not a government one.

In fact as we have repeated ad nauseam  government has no business sanctioning or banning any form of marriage – gay or straight. That should be up to individual churches. Period. End of story.

No really … that’s the end of the story.

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jimlewisowb May 11, 2014 at 4:43 pm

Wrong skippy

A story line like this will never have an ending

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 4:45 pm

Churches are losing membership in record numbers, because they are trying to placate pop culture, media, and materialism, not God…

The number of true Christians is not affected by this. But the number in religion, or in denominations will dwindle. As congregations become poisoned w/ false prophets and hedonism….the power of God will leave them…

The number of true Christians is likely not affected by this, unless it drives more, of the truly wise, toward The True God….

RogueElephant May 11, 2014 at 6:06 pm

Dead on Gt. My wife and I were UMC for forty + years. I wanted out after Iran/Contra but the gay issue finally brought my wife around. We are now very happy in a non denominational community ch. that still teaches the Bible like it is written. The leftward movement of the main line churches has driven the Bible believing Christians away in droves.

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:15 pm

Good point RE…. I think the type of churches you describe (non-D) where you now attend, are likely gaining in attendance. They are Savior-centric, w/o any acceptance of pop culture sin and re-writing of The Bible.

I now base my opinion of the integrity of a “Church” in their adherence to The Gospel, as it is written, w/o any neo-convenient interpretation…

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 11, 2014 at 8:27 pm

I would argue that churches are in decline all across the board. They are essentially businesses that rely on butts in pews and not for profit statuses to keep a certain amount of money rolling in to pay for church property and assets. The less interest, the more stuff is sold off, the fewer churches, etc.
The “mainline” churches are simply responding to changes in the marketplace. Whoever said we need churches anyway? Why can’t people just show up in a park on a Sunday morning and have a service? No offering plates, no tithing….just god’s word shared among believers….you know…grassroots style.

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 6:52 am

Because if there is anything the good lord cares about, it isn’t men hating each other, wars, hunger, disease, etc. it is which church has the biggest steeple, which congregation has the most swagger on Sunday, what vestibules have the most bling, and of course, how much the church focuses on trivial bullshit Old Testament laws instead of focusing on helping its community and humanity at large, which the Bible actually does encourage.

Also, the park isn’t air conditioned. This is SC after all.

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 11, 2014 at 8:36 pm

I wanted out after Iran/Contra …

Admittedly (and with just cause!), TBG’s memory of the 1980s is a bit hazy…but what did Iran-Contra have to do with the UMC?

RogueElephant May 11, 2014 at 9:42 pm

The “Iran Contra affair” was all about President Reagan through Ollie North providing weapons to the Contras (freedom fighters) in El Salvador as the libturds and Dims were trying to help the Sandinistas (commies) . I was at the time on the finance committee at our church and noticed an item in the UMC budget we were sending our apportionments to about aid to Central America. I did a little digging and found out that the high ups in the UMC were supporting, with our contribution money, the Sandinistas, our enemies. After a little more digging I noticed a pattern of liberal support with our money. I had only been back from Vietnam a decade where the UNICEF that I had , as a child , taken up money for, just in time to have the bullets the money went to buy shot at me in South East Asia. Really burned me up.

Fastmouth May 12, 2014 at 6:41 am

I’ve served on the finance committee, chairman of the church council, and other committees in our United Methodist Church. It’s amazing where some of the apportionment money goes to – central America, Africa University, & others. Talk about some congregations getting heartburn about where their money’s going!! What’s really amazing is when the members build something (parsonage, fellowship hall, etc.), the local church doesn’t own it! It’s owned on the SC UMC level. The state UMC says it’s for liability issues. I’ve just never quite understood that if a local congregation pays for it, why can’t they have ownership of it.

RogueElephant May 12, 2014 at 7:33 am

Just another of the litany of reasons to leave that ch. That is also why our UMC couldn’t have a church van/bus. The UMC was sued back several years ago for an accident, I think on Bluff Rd. ,A Baptist or other church is an individual entity whereas the UMC is the whole ch. The lawyers homed in and went for the gold at that level and won big time. The church van we had worked for for several years was no longer allowed. They sold it to the Baptist ch. down the road and rent it back when needed. WOW.
Find a small non-denominational ch. that teaches the Pauline books of the new testament and never look back. Works for me.

Fastmouth May 12, 2014 at 9:04 am

You are correct about the van issue. We had a smaller van years ago and were told by the SC Conference that we had to sell it due to legal issues and buy a larger bus – totally unnecessary. Absolutely crazy!

A Long Way, Baby May 11, 2014 at 6:07 pm

Yep, it has been on the decline since the mid-sixties, when people stopped allowing themselves to be repressed by what was a male dominated society.

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:17 pm

You sound Devil-bound to pop culture myths…I’ll pray for your Soul…

SCBlues May 11, 2014 at 6:18 pm

“I’ll pray for your Soul . . .”
I don’t know who you pray to . . . but judging from your posts please do not pray for me!

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:25 pm

I did not say I would pray for you. But what makes you think you have the right to tell me who to pray for?

It is like Abortion, insurance and marriage. You think you have the right to FORCE your desires on me. That is the problem people have with people like you…

SCBlues May 11, 2014 at 6:33 pm

LOL . . . rest assured my “desires” have nothing to do with you . . .

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:47 pm

Avoid the issue of what you are…typical…

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 7:00 am

That’s right T, we want to force you to get gay married. You caught us. Foiled again!

GrandTango May 12, 2014 at 7:16 am

And Obama does not want to force private sector businesses, and Catholic services to adhere to abortion, does he, LIAR????

Were you born a Dumb@$$…or did something happen to you???

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 11, 2014 at 8:32 pm

Impressed GT.
You are delving into the differences between “Churchianity” and “Christianity”.

Full Disclosure: TBG is an agnostic but understands and agrees with your point.

Lee Padgett May 11, 2014 at 8:55 pm

Uhhh peeps are leaving the Church cause of peeps like U!! Your comments on here show the most vitriol of anyone else. Most are satirical in nature but you exude nothing but anger. How the hell have you not had a stroke or heart attack? Please find your rock. The spiders and moss miss you.

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 6:57 am

Nothing makes you want to skip church more than the thought that the guy sitting in the pew right next to you may very well be GT, huh?

I would certainly question the church if GT was a product of it.

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 12, 2014 at 7:19 am

…the guy sitting in the pew right next to you may very well be GT…

*extends hand*
“Peace be with you , GT.”


SCBlues May 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm

“SC Episcopalians Go Gay”
‘Bout time!

Uncle Sam May 11, 2014 at 5:03 pm

“In fact as we have repeated ad nauseam government has no business sanctioning or banning any form of marriage – gay or straight. That should be up to individual churches. Period. End of story.

Bullshit. As an atheist, I should not have to go to a church to become married. Are you filing your taxes separately since you believe the Government should stay out recognizing or giving benefits to your pairing?

Mike at the Beach May 11, 2014 at 5:30 pm

I’m pretty sure no one has to go to a church to get married in SC. Just about anyone can sign and execute a marriage license in these parts- judges, clergy, even freaking Notaries. Although the case law is way to complex (and boring) for this venue, you can even get married without a ceremony at all (and without even knowing it) under the common law…

Uncle Sam May 11, 2014 at 5:54 pm

I KNOW THAT, MIKE! I’m married!

That was a response to Will’s marriage and government stance.

Mike at the Beach May 11, 2014 at 6:07 pm

Whoa baby! Sorry! I was just goin’ by what you said…

“As an atheist, I should not have to go to a church to get married in SC.”

I get ya now. Turn off that caps lock bro. It’s all good.

Uncle Sam May 11, 2014 at 6:11 pm

Sorry for the yelling, Mike. It seems Mother’s Day get me a little stressed.

Mike at the Beach May 11, 2014 at 7:47 pm

No worries, I feel ya. I buried my mother a few months ago, so there’s some Mother’s day stress in our house as well (for the kids, especially)… All good.

Centrist View May 11, 2014 at 5:07 pm

So, what does Episcopalian GOP Lt. Gov.candidate Pat McKinney have to say about this?
He and Pam are active members of St. Michael’s (Episcopal) Church in Charleston – and Pat’s faith serves as the compass that guides his life

Pam and Pat McKinney

St. Michael’s Statement on Old vs. New

Fits Aint No Republican May 11, 2014 at 5:41 pm

A slow news weekend allows Fits to sneak His weekly “Gay story on in.He REALLY doesnt “care” about any of this.We know that because he says so.

Which brings up the question,If he isnt “interested” in Gay issues,why does he weekly bring them up?One might think its because Gay issues seem to be of major significance in the SC Republican Party.

It cant be that though.Cause he’s not a Republicaan.He “says” he isnt!

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:05 pm

Why is it you people DO IT…but cannot stand for anyone else to voice an opinion on your Bigotry and Hate…

You think you can bully decent Americans around..and then you attack when you are defined for who, and what, you are…

If it’s so great…don’t be a coward…

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 11, 2014 at 8:23 pm

Perhaps there is a Larry Craig “wide stance” situation happening here with FITS.

SCBlues May 11, 2014 at 6:16 pm

And it has also been my experience that the most homophobic folks have the Gayest children.

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:26 pm

Do Bigots like you..have the most Bigoted Children???

SCBlues May 11, 2014 at 6:38 pm

GT calling someone else a bigot – now that is priceless!

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 6:44 pm

Nice sound bite…if you’re a Dumb@$$…
I truly believe ALL people are equal. I’m no better than anyone. That idea is what is best about America. It is a sound belief of Conservatives…….
It’s you who has to deal in the rights, race and gender of one person, being lifted above another Americans.
You believe in Affirmative Action for Blacks, Women and Homosexuals…that is a belief in inequality, and discrimination…
You are the Classic definition of a Bigot…

euwe max May 11, 2014 at 11:50 pm

Back in 2005, the Supreme Court ruled that the Ten Commandments could not be displayed on government property. Oh really? But it’s perfectly fine for public parks to display the Druid’s sacred symbol — the tree — and for the sky to put up the Islamic crescent moon every month. Wake up, it’s waxing Sharia!

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 11, 2014 at 8:20 pm

Do Bigots like you..have the most Bigoted Children???

*Points at GT*

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 7:01 am

That is a shame for the kids then.

Tell us more May 12, 2014 at 8:36 am

I always defer to hands on experience.

YayJesusBooDevil May 11, 2014 at 7:56 pm

Episcopalians are losing numbers because the kids in this denomination grow up and marry people of other faiths or join megachurches. It’s also OK for Episcopalians to skip church on Sunday and when you do this enough, you tend to drift away for good. I think churches should reach out to all peoples of every perspective because that is what Christ would do. We must love our neighbors as ourselves. Many Episcopal churches have gay members and they are a vibrant group who contribute a lot of time and money towards the downtrodden because they know what it is like to be downtrodden.

GrandTango May 11, 2014 at 8:16 pm

One of the most Ignorant clichés I hear in this debate is that courting homosexuals is “Reaching Out” to all people.

Jesus NEVER turned away anyone from the message, but he TOLD FOLLOWERS THEY MUST REPENT their sin…We’re all the same in that God will forgive us…

If the Episcopal Church thinks it can Grow its offering plate, by condoning sin, it may as well open a gay bath house, offer a discount on AIDS insurance or conduct NAMBLA meetings like they do in liberal-democrat Marin County Public Libraries…

The Road to Hell is Wide Open, w/ the numbers large. Sin is very attractive, but it is not God’s Church that sells itself to evil.

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 11, 2014 at 8:44 pm

Sin is very attractive…

“If you don’t think sin is fun, you haven’t been committing the right sins.”
————————————–Billy Graham

inciteful May 12, 2014 at 6:55 am

It wasn’t Graham, it was Billy CLINTON who said that!

euwe max May 11, 2014 at 10:24 pm

No one cares what you think about sin – that has nothing to do with it. Our personal opinions about the way another person behaves shouldn’t affect how the law, or some church, treats an individual. Believing homosexuality is a sin and not accepting it as normal is an opinion that you’re entitled to, but it is not the basis for legal discrimination. Otherwise, I’d discriminate against you and your kind for disgusting bigotry… but I don’t believe law should be applied that way.

I don’t think churches should discriminate against their membership based on race, color, or sex. Some do.

Each person should get equal protection under the law against discrimination, no matter how disgusted we are by their beliefs or their behavior.

The limit, of course, is physical or financial harm.

A church may discriminate against people for their behaviors, because it’s a club – but don’t pretend to speak for Jesus.

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 6:43 am

Big(o)T, as with many in the religious right, oppose Sharia law and Islamic theocracy not because of its overbearing and regressive laws, but because the laws came from the wrong book.

Go to Bob Jones and they’ll tell you what movies, music, etc. is acceptable, what contact with the opposite sex is acceptable (before, this included race, praise the lord amirite?), a demerits system for all kinds of religious infractions…

The difference is that an Islamic theocracy has the numbers of religious kooks to bring forth laws enforcing religion. America doesn’t, so you have moral crusaders trying to win over people to pass much less stringent, but still oppressive, religion-based law.

On my phone so it is difficult to post links, but I’ve posted them before. More people are identifying as agnostic or non-theist, many young people specifically cited religious views on gays and gay marriage as their biggest reason for staying away from church.

And don’t for a moment believe the Constitution protects us from a theocracy, there are plenty of kooks who have openly claimed that free speech and freedom of religion only apply to Christianity, which, like half of GT’s posts, is absolute 100% weapons-grade stupidity.

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 6:29 am

Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. It’s a Levitical law (more like Levitical lol, amirite?) that Christians “choose” to follow even though they choose to ignore other parts of Leviticus, the Old Testament, and the Bible in general whenever it suits them.

Oh, and, of course, any book that promotes discrimination and hatred is far from “perfect” and “infallible” especially when there is zero objective, logical evidence given to justify it. (You know, something that gives a reason why gays shouldn’t marry besides “Because the Bible says so!”)

Sodom & Gomorrah May 11, 2014 at 11:19 pm

“We must love our neighbors as ourselves.”

I want to see some hot Episcopalian gay action myself.

I’m all for the love- man on man, women on women, man on women, man on angel, it’s all good.

Smirks May 12, 2014 at 6:46 am

Careful man, don’t turn into a pillar of salt.

Sodom & Gomorrah May 12, 2014 at 8:35 am

I love salt. I also love bacon.

Can I make a special request to be turned into bacon instead of salt?

anonymous May 12, 2014 at 3:09 pm

As a practicing Episcopalian myself (who goes to church weekly), I have seen what you have described above…most Episcopal parents don’t want to pressure their adult children into going to church, the parents want their kids to feel free to make their own decisions about going to church on their own…some stay or drift off into secularism…this is not an unique problem to the Episcopal Church, within the last couple of years, the membership numbers of Evangelical Churches are stagnating and in some cases beginning to delcine as their young adults leave the churches they grew up in that preach the Republican Party talking points supported by scripture to churches that are weekly Christian concerts with a pastor preaching on CCTV, a few going to high church Catholic, Orthodox, Episcopalian Churches, or going to secularism as well…in my own church our GLBT members bring a joyous Spirit to the life of our church and they in the process helps all of us in the congregation become better Christians!!!!

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 11, 2014 at 8:27 pm

Like it or not, religion is a marketplace – except instead of products and profits it features sacraments and tithes. In both instances, though, numbers matter – and congregations will either gain or lose members (and their money) based on how they address the burning issues of the day.


But, there is long term success and short term success. ITBGHO, religion should be in it for the long term. If religion tries to adapt itself to short term fads and social mores…it becomes irrelevant.

On the other hand…you have to get through the short term to get to the long term.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 11, 2014 at 8:30 pm

It’s already becoming irrelevant. In fact, I would argue that Americans’ insistence on clinging to guns and religion is holding us back from making the necessary moves to get us firmly placed for the future. We still have schools that teach the earth was created only 6000 years ago in 6 days.

Bible Thumper May 11, 2014 at 8:55 pm

We can be held back even more when the Federal government dictates what is taught in school. Examples: China, former Soviet Union, Saudi Arabia.
It is safer and preserves our freedoms if parents decide. Home schoolers have proven by their academic and professional success that they aren’t holding us back. Their is more evidence that the public schools are what is holding us back.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 11, 2014 at 9:00 pm

I’d like to see that research. Please provide independent, third party data that shows homeschooling achieves better outcomes than public schools.
Also, which public schools? If you’re talking about segregated underfunded rural schools vs. high end Beverly Hills 90210 schools…that’s not like for like. Generally speaking, schools in the south (as evidenced by standardized testing) are the lowest performers and “liberal” areas of the country are better performers.

Bible Thumper May 11, 2014 at 9:25 pm

The most important factor in a child’s education is the parents and It’s not always income.
Just go to the Research section of Homeschooling in Wikipedia. Often opponents admit the the findings by saying their parents are more committed.
That is one of my main complaints about public education. It has so “professionalizes” education that parents no longer think they are qualified to make their own decisions for their child. Their children suffer as a result. If parents can decide on their own careers, buy a car, vote for president they can make their children’s educational decisions.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 11, 2014 at 9:53 pm

Did you see the glaring disclaimers at the top of the Wiki page for this? Namely that the neutrality of the information is disputed? In any event, check out the criticism section as test results are mixed.
So why single out public education? Do you also feel that private schools under perform against home schooling? Are you in favor of your tax dollars going to a voucher program? Perhaps to a jewish private school? A muslim private school? Perhaps to a school that teaches the non-science of intelligent design?

I will agree that parents are perhaps one of the biggest determinants when it comes to education outcomes be it public, private or home school but I don’t like my tax dollars going to private religious schools. Even more than parents though, socio-economic factors play a massive role in outcomes. Again, the South is a chronic under-performer academically and we have just as many (if not more) home schoolers and private schools as anywhere else.

Bible Thumper May 11, 2014 at 10:32 pm

You can never get studies on these type of issues that are not disputed.
I believe if parents feel empowered, they will make a better decision than the government.
One of the most stated criticism I have seen is that the public schools will suffer if money is given charter or private schools. I have posted links to studies that have found that public schools actually improve and out perform private voucher schools in areas where they are available. Competition and choice improves most schools. Failures can be reorganized. The advantage of charter and private schools is that they usually achieve their results at near half the costs of public schools.

As long as the school is open to all in fair way and meets certain accreditation and testing standards, I have no objection to Muslim, Jewish, or Satanist receiving vouchers. I trust parents over the government. Even when parents are negligent or make poor decisions enough parents are making the right decisions to force schools to respond.
No single school model can meet the diverse needs of all students. In rural areas parents may still not have many choices, but for them in house charter schools in the same facilities might be the only option.
I would also support ways to reduce segregation by introducing vochers first in already segregated areas to the poor first. Enlarge it gradually.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 11, 2014 at 11:55 pm

– “I believe if parents feel empowered, they will make a better decision than the government.”

What about vaccination refusers and the “pray the sick away” crowd who refuse to listen or abide by gov’t advice when it comes to the health of their child?

You really have no problem with “Satan High” getting your tax money through vouchers? LOL.

Aren’t you the guy who was quoting from that white supremacist paper and think tank a few articles back and passing it off as fact?

Bible Thumper May 12, 2014 at 12:20 am

For every Satan High there will be a 1000 other schools that will be challenged by competition to offer quality education. Parental rights are not absolute, but neither is the governments.
If people can be trusted with self – government then they can be trusted to raise their children unless their is a specific reason to doubt. South Carolina’s own DSS should give you reason to mistrust the government’s ability to intervene.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 12, 2014 at 12:27 am

Are you suggesting Satan High isn’t up to the credentialing of other schools? As an aside, Oklahoma is trying to prevent a statue of Satan being displayed alongside the 10 commandments in the OK capital building as per gov’t favoritism of one faith over another. The rub…either the gov’t allows all comers or nobody at all with regards to religion. I prefer the second.
Now, more germane to your response. So you’ve already walked back your remarks that parents are the end all, be all, source of absolutism in this world. Ozzy Osbourne and Courtney Love spring to mind.
Look, if you really want that good ole fashioned self gov’t like mom used to make, you should move Somalia. It’s very self governing. No nasty bureaucracies whatsoever to get in the way of freedom. Unfettered liberty they have over there.

Bible Thumper May 12, 2014 at 12:49 am

If the government was in charge of everything there never would have been a Ozzy or Courtney and that is the way I like it.
I haven’t backed down at all. The government can intervene in cases of abuse or neglect, but with government’s poor record of intervention it should act with restraint.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 12, 2014 at 1:01 am

That’s like saying because gov’t can’t stop all illegal drug activity…they should just give up entirely trying to enforce it.
You’re in effect saying that if the gov’t can’t stop 100% of child endangerment, then what’s the point in even trying.

Bible Thumper May 12, 2014 at 1:14 am

I did not say any of those things. Just don’t be arrogant about the government’s ability.

Limbaughsaphatkhunt May 12, 2014 at 1:17 am

Ok, well just give the government some credit.

Bible Thumper May 11, 2014 at 8:44 pm

FITS——-“Isn’t there some passage of Scripture in which the followers of Jesus Christ are exhorted to either answer “yes, yes” or “no, no?” And instructed that anything beyond such definitive answers is “of the devil” and will result in “condemnation?”

Actually there are two such passages (Matthew 5:37 and James 5:12).”

I usually don’t “Bible thump” in my comments, but l have noticed that no one has challenged fits misuse of these scriptures. In fact, no one has even mentioned scripture in response.

Often non believers use scripture against believers and accuse them of hypocrisy. It is an easy accusation because only one man has ever fulfilled the biblical standard. It seems to me they are hypocritical for hold in others to a much higher standard than they hold for themselves.

It saddens me that many opinions of Christians are formed only by what they are exposed to in the media. Imagine and extra terrestrial’s opinions of Earth being formed only by news and popular entertainment.

The scriptures used by fits have nothing to do with “definitive answers”. They are verses against taking oaths. He also puts “of the devil” and “Condemnations?” in quotes when they have no connection to these referenced verses. Fits oddly hedged his statement by a grammatically incorrect use of a “?”.

Smirks May 11, 2014 at 10:36 pm

Religion is a marketplace? Well, pretty much. One of the last churches I went to sold coffee before sermons and had an ATM-like tithing machine.

The Almighty Dollar is the one “true god” of organized religion.

Bible Thumper May 11, 2014 at 10:45 pm

That’s the conundrum. Religion can be corrupted by money, power and politics. But unorganized religion can’t build hospitals support colleges or effectively perform charity. The same argument can be made about organized government but few would choose unorganized anarchy.

GrandTango May 12, 2014 at 7:14 am

Hilarious, and the epitome of irony: FITS preaches that Christian churches have a responsibility to a free market, but no obligation to God…

Then he pontificates, using his own cherry-picked Scripture as if he is some sort of spiritual authority….to be listened to…

You have to laugh: FITS is like all liberals…they will crucify Christ all over again: Then use The Bible to try to manipulate you, just in case they an get you that way….

If you have no grounding, there are LOTS and LOTS of idiots (see FITS) willing to drive you…Jesus warned us about them…

euwe max May 12, 2014 at 8:01 am

The New Testament teaches that a woman should wear a hajib. The current political climate likes to criticize Islam for requiring it, while they ignore the same requirement. The same goes for pork, Playboy and alcohol – they are savages, while we “have perspective.”

Christianity adjusts to the current culture… Catholicism makes up its own rules to make it look like they are “following tradition,” – remember meatless Friday? How about “the rhythm method?” There are almost as many Catholics as Muslims.

Nölff May 12, 2014 at 8:07 am

If anyone wants to go to your church, welcome them. Don’t be a judgmental prick about it.
My uncle was one of the most homophobic deacons at his Baptist church. His son, my cousin, came out of the closet a few years ago. Maybe that’s God punishing him for calling people “faggots” all the time.

Did he take it well?… not at first. But he whistles a different tune now.

Thinking Christian May 12, 2014 at 8:15 am

Where Homosexuality Is Most Accepted — 2013

Canadians, who already expressed tolerant views in 2007, are now even more likely to say homosexuality should be accepted by society; 80% say this, compared with 70% six years ago.

Views are not as positive in the U.S., where a smaller majority (60%) believes homosexuality should be accepted.

But Americans are far more tolerant today than they were in 2007, when 49% said homosexuality should be accepted by society and 41% said it should be rejected.

— Pew Research Center

As usual, the Episcopal Church of the midlands and upstate are alienating more people than they are attracting.

I agree with fits: One should seek a church where one is comfortable; over time, this causes schisms and new denominations.

The percentage of American “nones” (religiously unaffiliated) has risen to 20% overall and 33% among those under 30 speaks to that.

James May 12, 2014 at 4:00 pm

“As usual, the Episcopal Church of the midlands and upstate are alienating more people than they are attracting.”

So you say, but the Low Country SC Parishes who split from the Episcopal Church have seen a decline in membership since the split, while the Low Country Parishes who decided to stay with the Episcopal Church, and new parishes started as a result of the split, have gained membership.

Gregory Geddings May 12, 2014 at 8:19 am

I defer to Ambrose Bierce (from the Devil’s Dictionary)

“Christian”: One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

Soft Sigh from Hell May 13, 2014 at 7:27 pm

“The Ku Klux is, to all intents and purposes, simply the secular arm of the Methodist Church”–Mencken

Wondering May 12, 2014 at 9:58 am

Saw this posted before on a forum before (maybe here?) and thought it somewhat thought provoking:

Hey there, y’all “Christians”:

Thank you all for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law.

However, I could use some advice from you all regarding some of the specific
biblical laws and how to best follow them:

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing
odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor
is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price to ask for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period
of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I
have tried just asking, but most women take offense!

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided
they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this
applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly
states he should be put to death! Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination
(Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can
you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect
in my eyesight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses on occasion…Does
my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should
they be killed?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but can I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops
in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different
kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme
a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the
whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to
death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their
in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

TontoBubbaGoldstein May 12, 2014 at 5:56 pm

A) Fuck your neighbors if they don’t like the smell of chargrilled steak.

B) According to our Islamic brethren in Nigeria…. $12.

C) She carries her purse to the ladies room every time.

D) People of French extraction are too obnoxious to make good slaves.

E) No. You should however SHUN THE INFIDEL and not offer him steak (see A.) or beer.

F) TBG avoids obvious lesbian jokes. Don’t invite your friend to your next oyster roast. Invite TBG, instead.

G) No wiggle room. Also avoid the Ark of the Covenant. LASIK is copasetic, though.

H) Slowly…through alcohol induced liver damage.

I) According to Brother Dabo…absolutely.

J) No. Don’t be lazy.

Thomas May 12, 2014 at 10:38 am

Can you not stop these inane comments that marriage is the province of the churches. Government has been involved in marriage since its inception. The only reason it appears more religious than secular is that for most of Western European history the church and the government were one. Marriage has as its source contracts and alliances. Those are secular in nature. The Church wanted to assure that only Christians could become nobility. Consequently marriage to a pagan was prohibited unless the pagan converted. For that reason the Church had to approve marriage contracts, family alliances and ultimately alliances between nations. This started post Constantine in the Roman Empire for the Christian Church. But to a lesser degree was practiced by other religions before Christianity.

Bubba Baptist May 12, 2014 at 7:07 pm

The ‘Palians always seemed a little poofy to me.

swampland May 14, 2014 at 3:51 pm

“Obviously such blessings do not include gay marriage – which remains illegal in South Carolina.”

Gay marriage is not illegal in SC. It is not sanctioned by the tax code, and it is not sanctioned by the judicial system, and it may not even be sanction by your employer, but it is not illegal.

Arrange for an ordained minister to join a gay couple in holy matrimony and then call the police. The police will not arrest the couple or the preacher because there is no law on which to base such an arrest.


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