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North Carolina Wants State Religion

Stash this away in the “coming soon to the Palmetto State” file … While the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly enjoins Congress from establishing a state religion – are states similarly precluded from doing so? That issue is currently being raised by eleven “Republicans”…

Stash this away in the “coming soon to the Palmetto State” file …

While the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly enjoins Congress from establishing a state religion – are states similarly precluded from doing so?

That issue is currently being raised by eleven “Republicans” in North Carolina – including the House GOP Majority Leader, Edgar Starnes (R-Caldwell) and the state’s top budget writer, Justin Burr (R-Stanly). According to House Bill 494, these Tar Heel State leaders want to establish an official religion – Christianity.

“The Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion,” the law states.

Furthermore, they want to block any effort by the federal government to restrict the use of Christian prayers by taxpayer-funded bodies.

“The Constitution of the United States does not grant the federal government and does not grant the federal courts the power to determine what is or is not constitutional; therefore, by virtue of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the power to determine constitutionality and the proper interpretation and proper application of the Constitution is reserved to the states and to the people,” the legislation concludes.

It’s a nullification bill, in other words.

Although the dispute originates at the local level, North Carolina’s legislature has been using Christian prayers to open its sessions ever since the “Republican” Party took control of the legislature following the 2010 elections.

As fiscally conservative social libertarians, we naturally recoil whenever such legislation is introduced. Just as government ought to stay out of marriage, it ought to stay out of religion.

What do you think, though? Should states be allowed to establish a religion?  Vote in our poll and post your thoughts in our comments section below …

Oh … and in case you’d like to go through it yourself, here’s a link to the North Carolina bill referenced in this story.

N.C. HOUSE BILL 494 (.pdf)

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70 comments

Smirks April 3, 2013 at 12:26 pm

I don’t even have to ask if Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, or any other religious (or non-religious) persons will get to offer their own version of prayer to absolutely turn the religious right beet red. Just tell the Baptists that their son or daughter will have to listen to Mormon and Catholic prayers, or that one of the pastors giving the prayers might speak in tongues.

Is it really that hard to realize why government should have zero business dealing with anything religious? Let people believe what they want and perform whatever they want on their own free time.

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
-Matthew 6:1,5-6

Reply
Nancy Yates April 3, 2013 at 7:30 pm

Well said!

Reply
SparkleCity April 4, 2013 at 6:44 am

Spot on Smirks

Matthew 6:,5-6 says it all. I am reminded by that verse many times.

I’m deeply troubled by this movement to see who is more religious than the other.

As a “Boomer” and former altar boy from the old Latin Mass days, I say if they are going to go this route, I won’t be satisfied until a priest gives the Friday night football invocation in Latin at Byrnes High or a Druid stands in the middle of Gaffney’s football field and presides over a pagan ritual before the game starts……..

Reply
BeaufortTiger April 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm

Yes, but the Gaffneyites will still have to throw D-sized batteries at him once he finishes the sacrifice a the Reservation.

Reply
SparkleCity April 5, 2013 at 12:29 am

Yep, you got that right.

I’m kinda visualizing a fertility ritual though……..

It’d be a shame to throw batteries during that but like you posted, it is Gaffney after all………

Reply
Bill April 5, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Just a note: Sikhs are Christians.

Reply
Smirks April 3, 2013 at 12:26 pm

I don’t even have to ask if Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, or any other religious (or non-religious) persons will get to offer their own version of prayer to absolutely turn the religious right beet red. Just tell the Baptists that their son or daughter will have to listen to Mormon and Catholic prayers, or that one of the pastors giving the prayers might speak in tongues.

Is it really that hard to realize why government should have zero business dealing with anything religious? Let people believe what they want and perform whatever they want on their own free time.

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
-Matthew 6:1,5-6

Reply
Nancy Yates April 3, 2013 at 7:30 pm

Well said!

Reply
SparkleCity April 4, 2013 at 6:44 am

Spot on Smirks

Matthew 6:,5-6 says it all. I am reminded by that verse many times.

I’m deeply troubled by this movement to see who is more religious than the other.

As a “Boomer” and former altar boy from the old Latin Mass days, I say if they are going to go this route, I won’t be satisfied until a priest gives the Friday night football invocation in Latin at Byrnes High or a Druid stands in the middle of Gaffney’s football field and presides over a pagan ritual before the game starts……..

Reply
BeaufortTiger April 4, 2013 at 3:18 pm

Yes, but the Gaffneyites will still have to throw D-sized batteries at him once he finishes the sacrifice a the Reservation.

Reply
SparkleCity April 5, 2013 at 12:29 am

Yep, you got that right.

I’m kinda visualizing a fertility ritual though……..

It’d be a shame to throw batteries during that but like you posted, it is Gaffney after all………

Reply
Bill April 5, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Just a note: Sikhs are Christians.

Reply
Lar5 April 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm

What next? A statewide KKK rally with burning crosses A lynching or two also? Signs that state “Jews, dogs, the others and non Christians prohibited.” This is the Priebus new look for the GOP? It’s happened before!

Reply
Lar5 April 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm

What next? A statewide KKK rally with burning crosses A lynching or two also? Signs that state “Jews, dogs, the others and non Christians prohibited.” This is the Priebus new look for the GOP? It’s happened before!

Reply
Liberal=Science=Equality April 3, 2013 at 12:46 pm

Break out the snakes!

Reply
Hot Air Balloon April 3, 2013 at 12:46 pm

Break out the snakes!

Reply
Sam Guerin April 3, 2013 at 12:49 pm

Nazis did the same thing back in the day!

Reply
Soft Sigh from Hell April 3, 2013 at 7:31 pm

Heck, they even had a Reichsbischof (Reich’s bishop).

Maybe now a Vicar of St. Helms or even a Tarheel Trinity.

Reply
Sam Guerin April 3, 2013 at 12:49 pm

Nazis did the same thing back in the day!

Reply
Soft Sigh from Hell April 3, 2013 at 7:31 pm

Heck, they even had a Reichsbischof (Reich’s bishop).

Maybe now a Vicar of St. Helms or even a Tarheel Trinity.

Reply
NC RESIDENT April 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm

NORTH CAROLINA IS NOT THE PALMETTO STATE! THATS SOUTH CAROLINA BRAIN CHILD!

Reply
Ken E. April 3, 2013 at 9:51 pm

He said “Coming soon to the Palmetto State”, meaning that if they do it in NC, they’ll certainly do it in SC soon after. We’re just not smart enough to think of this crazy $hit ourselves.

Reply
NC RESIDENT April 3, 2013 at 1:03 pm

NORTH CAROLINA IS NOT THE PALMETTO STATE! THATS SOUTH CAROLINA BRAIN CHILD!

Reply
Ken E. April 3, 2013 at 9:51 pm

He said “Coming soon to the Palmetto State”, meaning that if they do it in NC, they’ll certainly do it in SC soon after. We’re just not smart enough to think of this crazy $hit ourselves.

Reply
LD April 3, 2013 at 1:08 pm

As long as it is Baptist then we’re ok. Can’t have any radical religion like Presbyterian or Episcopal.

Reply
LD April 3, 2013 at 1:08 pm

As long as it is Baptist then we’re ok. Can’t have any radical religion like Presbyterian or Episcopal.

Reply
BigT April 3, 2013 at 1:19 pm

Hitler was an occultist..and Stalin and Mao were Atheists…
Libralism follows some of the same tenents of Mao, Hitler and Satlin…
Why don’t you oppose Liberalism?

Reply
LD April 3, 2013 at 1:49 pm

So are you telling me that Jesus was a conservative back in the day?

Reply
Smirks April 3, 2013 at 2:40 pm Reply
BigT April 3, 2013 at 1:19 pm

Hitler was an occultist..and Stalin and Mao were Atheists…
Libralism follows some of the same tenents of Mao, Hitler and Satlin…
Why don’t you oppose Liberalism?

Reply
LD April 3, 2013 at 1:49 pm

So are you telling me that Jesus was a conservative back in the day?

Reply
Smirks April 3, 2013 at 2:40 pm Reply
Bubbas Brother April 3, 2013 at 1:21 pm

While the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly enjoins Congress from establishing a state religion – are states similarly precluded from doing so?

The answer to your “self licking lollipop” question is no, the states are not precluded from having a state religion – in fact Connecticut’s state religion (Congregationalism) wasn’t disestablished until 1818 (SC disestablished theirs in 1790). The last state to officially abolish support for a state religion was Massachusetts who finally cut off funding in the 1830s.

Reply
The Colonel (R) April 3, 2013 at 1:21 pm

While the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly enjoins Congress from establishing a state religion – are states similarly precluded from doing so?

The answer to your “self licking lollipop” question is no, the states are not precluded from having a state religion – in fact Connecticut’s state religion (Congregationalism) wasn’t disestablished until 1818 (SC disestablished theirs in 1790). The last state to officially abolish support for a state religion was Massachusetts who finally cut off funding in the 1830s.

Reply
shifty henry April 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm

A state religion? —— BAAAAD IDEA

Reply
shifty henry April 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm

A state religion? —— BAAAAD IDEA

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia April 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm

I believe “Dog Worship” is SC’s state religion.

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia April 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm

I believe “Dog Worship” is SC’s state religion.

Reply
lye April 3, 2013 at 2:44 pm

Our country is moving backards because the conservatives are pulling so hard against progress that they’re falling back further than they intended to.

Reply
lye April 3, 2013 at 2:44 pm

Our country is moving backards because the conservatives are pulling so hard against progress that they’re falling back further than they intended to.

Reply
golfer15068 April 3, 2013 at 2:45 pm

Nothing ever damaged Christianity like Christians do.

Reply
BigT April 3, 2013 at 3:17 pm

You can’t damage liberalism…it is FILTH and Corruption personified….
Christianity is not damaged, except in respect to a secular leftwing ideology….
Whereas Pervert homosexuals in the church, who worship hedonism, like liberals…are an abomination to humanity…not just God…
And the big problem is: you liberals celebrate, even wallow in, sin…you don’t condemn it…

Reply
GreenvilleLwyr April 3, 2013 at 5:15 pm

I think I have finally figured out who you are. Fred Phelps from Westboro Baptist, right?

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia April 3, 2013 at 7:12 pm

GreenvilleLwyr, I think you scored a direct hit. Listen! Nothing but crickets.

Reply
BeaufortTiger April 4, 2013 at 3:19 pm

I thought it was FITS in disguise, just trying to get a rise out of us. There’s no way someone can be so breathlessly stupid all the time.

Reply
adam evans April 4, 2013 at 12:19 pm

Does any licensed medical professional ever check this man’s medications; is he actually seen to be swallowing the lithium?

Reply
golfer15068 April 3, 2013 at 2:45 pm

Nothing ever damaged Christianity like Christians do.

Reply
BigT April 3, 2013 at 3:17 pm

You can’t damage liberalism…it is FILTH and Corruption personified….
Christianity is not damaged, except in respect to a secular leftwing ideology….
Whereas Pervert homosexuals in the church, who worship hedonism, like liberals…are an abomination to humanity…not just God…
And the big problem is: you liberals celebrate, even wallow in, sin…you don’t condemn it…

Reply
GreenvilleLwyr April 3, 2013 at 5:15 pm

I think I have finally figured out who you are. Fred Phelps from Westboro Baptist, right?

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia April 3, 2013 at 7:12 pm

GreenvilleLwyr, I think you scored a direct hit. Listen! Nothing but crickets.

Reply
BeaufortTiger April 4, 2013 at 3:19 pm

I thought it was FITS in disguise, just trying to get a rise out of us. There’s no way someone can be so breathlessly stupid all the time.

Reply
adam evans April 4, 2013 at 12:19 pm

Does any licensed medical professional ever check this man’s medications; is he actually seen to be swallowing the lithium?

Reply
Thomas April 3, 2013 at 4:14 pm

The state religion in North Carolina should be Botulism

…and to think they are the educated side of the family, not.

Reply
Thomas April 3, 2013 at 4:14 pm

The state religion in North Carolina should be Botulism

…and to think they are the educated side of the family, not.

Reply
GreenvilleLwyr April 3, 2013 at 5:18 pm

Will our Sikh governor endorse such a measure?

Reply
GreenvilleLwyr April 3, 2013 at 5:18 pm

Will our Sikh governor endorse such a measure?

Reply
JC April 3, 2013 at 5:35 pm

I would suggest North Carolina’s legislature read the United States Supreme Court’s opinion in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), which held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporated the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause, and therefore the Establishment Clause applies not only to actions of the federal government, but to states as well.

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JC April 3, 2013 at 5:35 pm

I would suggest North Carolina’s legislature read the United States Supreme Court’s opinion in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), which held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporated the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause, and therefore the Establishment Clause applies not only to actions of the federal government, but to states as well.

Reply
14th April 3, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Under the incorporation doctrine of the 14th Amendment (which applies most (but not all) of the rights found in the Bill of Rights to the states) it is unequivocally unconstitutional for a state to establish an “official religion”. Before the passage of the 14th Amendment after the civil war (and the Supreme Court’s subsequent interpretation of that Amendment) one would have been correct in stating that there was no Constitutional prohibition against states establishing an “official religion”. Today, however, there is no ambiguity; thanks to the incorporation doctrine it is clearly and unmistakably unconstitutional.

Reply
14th April 3, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Under the incorporation doctrine of the 14th Amendment (which applies most (but not all) of the rights found in the Bill of Rights to the states) it is unequivocally unconstitutional for a state to establish an “official religion”. Before the passage of the 14th Amendment after the civil war (and the Supreme Court’s subsequent interpretation of that Amendment) one would have been correct in stating that there was no Constitutional prohibition against states establishing an “official religion”. Today, however, there is no ambiguity; thanks to the incorporation doctrine it is clearly and unmistakably unconstitutional.

Reply
SparkleCity April 4, 2013 at 6:33 am

North Carolina ALREADY HAS a state religion:

It’s called Bar-B-Que!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply
SparkleCity April 4, 2013 at 6:33 am

North Carolina ALREADY HAS a state religion:

It’s called Bar-B-Que!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply
WorkingTommyC April 4, 2013 at 8:10 am

Despite some purposeful misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment by socialist judicial activists in the 20th century, nothing relevant to the issue has changed in the U.S. Constitution since several states with state churches or laws involving religious worship were admitted into the union with those institutions and laws intact. The matter of religion is purely an internal matter for the states.

Is it a good idea to go to the extreme of having a state church? Probably not, but lots of states have bad ideas put into law and it should be up to them to govern themselves–for better or worse. Certainly the damned idiots in D.C.–especially the drooling cretins on the US Supreme Court–can render no better decisions as they have arrogantly taken upon themselves the task of micromanaging our lives.

But then, the legislators in N.C. are not talking about establishing a state church, are they? On the practices attendant to religion, especially on the matter of prayer in school and other such finer details, if there’s going to be true freedom of worship, it will have to be up to the people in the states and their willingness to fight for it and defy the tyranny (yes, with nullification) of the fascist central government that has been doing its best to denigrate our unalienable right to worship.

And, for those of you who keep idiotically referring to the misunderstood phrase, “wall of separation,” here’s what Thomas Jefferson said on the exact issue in 1808:

“I consider the government of the U S. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment, or free exercise, or religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the U.S. Certainly no power to prescribe any religious exercise, or to assume authority in religious discipline, has been delegated to the general government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority.”

Reply
WorkingTommyC April 4, 2013 at 8:10 am

Despite some purposeful misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment by socialist judicial activists in the 20th century, nothing relevant to the issue has changed in the U.S. Constitution since several states with state churches or laws involving religious worship were admitted into the union with those institutions and laws intact. The matter of religion is purely an internal matter for the states.

Is it a good idea to go to the extreme of having a state church? Probably not, but lots of states have bad ideas put into law and it should be up to them to govern themselves–for better or worse. Certainly the damned idiots in D.C.–especially the drooling cretins on the US Supreme Court–can render no better decisions as they have arrogantly taken upon themselves the task of micromanaging our lives.

But then, the legislators in N.C. are not talking about establishing a state church, are they? On the practices attendant to religion, especially on the matter of prayer in school and other such finer details, if there’s going to be true freedom of worship, it will have to be up to the people in the states and their willingness to fight for it and defy the tyranny (yes, with nullification) of the fascist central government that has been doing its best to denigrate our unalienable right to worship.

And, for those of you who keep idiotically referring to the misunderstood phrase, “wall of separation,” here’s what Thomas Jefferson said on the exact issue in 1808:

“I consider the government of the U S. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment, or free exercise, or religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the U.S. Certainly no power to prescribe any religious exercise, or to assume authority in religious discipline, has been delegated to the general government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority.”

Reply
Nölff April 4, 2013 at 8:42 am

Good luck overstepping the 1st amendment. We’ll see how well that goes.

Reply
Nölff April 4, 2013 at 8:42 am

Good luck overstepping the 1st amendment. We’ll see how well that goes.

Reply
Mr. G April 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm

There is nothing legally preventing NC from doing this, although it supposes that the citizens of that state are still religious in any recognizable way.
Many, if not most, of the colonies had tax funded churches at the time of the revolution. Several continued to have state churches intil the early 19th century. South Carolina, for example, was Anglican until 1790. Mass was congregationalist until 1780, although it continued to be funded until 1833. There are other examples– many of which post-date the ratification of the u.S. Constitution.
Besides, why would we want/need a state religion when we already have a national religion. Although unnamed, It is a currious blend of secular humanism, worship of an all-powerful national government, and a belief in equality and human progress.

Reply
Mr. G April 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm

There is nothing legally preventing NC from doing this, although it supposes that the citizens of that state are still religious in any recognizable way.
Many, if not most, of the colonies had tax funded churches at the time of the revolution. Several continued to have state churches intil the early 19th century. South Carolina, for example, was Anglican until 1790. Mass was congregationalist until 1780, although it continued to be funded until 1833. There are other examples– many of which post-date the ratification of the u.S. Constitution.
Besides, why would we want/need a state religion when we already have a national religion. Although unnamed, It is a currious blend of secular humanism, worship of an all-powerful national government, and a belief in equality and human progress.

Reply
Bill April 5, 2013 at 8:46 pm

I’m fine with religion, in all of our lives, in every aspect, controlling everything, and everyone.
As long as it’s “MY RELIGION, AND MINE ALONE!”
Your’s doesn’t count.

Reply
Bill April 5, 2013 at 8:46 pm

I’m fine with religion, in all of our lives, in every aspect, controlling everything, and everyone.
As long as it’s “MY RELIGION, AND MINE ALONE!”
Your’s doesn’t count.

Reply

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