CHURCHES SHOULD STOP USING SCRIPTURE TO DISCRIMINATE
|| By LEN ANTHONY || In 2012 after a forty-year hiatus from attending church I decided to give it another try. At the beginning of the sermon on my first Sunday back in a pew the pastor said “we here at the Antioch Church (not the real name of the church) believe the Bible is the true, inerrant word of God.” That struck me as odd. Modern physics, anthropology, archeology and DNA mapping, etc. make it clear that portions of the Bible are not true.
A few weeks later I learned of the homosexuality debate in the Christian church. When I asked the pastor and a Bible study teacher to explain why the Antioch Church considers homosexuals sinners, opposes same-sex marriage and denies homosexuals any type of leadership role in the church they said “The Bible says homosexual behavior is an abomination, a sin”.
The Bible does say homosexual behavior is a sin. But the Bible also says a lot of other things that the Antioch Church, its pastor and the vast majority of Christians ignore. It says things like: homosexuals should be killed; disrespectful children should be taken to the village square and stoned to death; slavery is ok and slaves should do whatever they are told even if they are treated harshly; women should be submissive to their husbands, wear hats in church and be quiet; and remarriage following divorce is adultery unless the reason for the divorce was adultery. I could go on but you get the picture.
The Bible also lists quite a few sins in addition to homosexual behavior. One of them, the tenth commandment, says it is a sin to covet your neighbor’s wife.
That is, lusting after someone else’s wife is a sin. So, every time a heterosexual male sees Salma Hayek he sins. Does that mean none of these men can be leaders of the church because they are sinners? I have heard numerous pastors say we are all sinners. That is why God sent Jesus to die on the cross, so we could be saved from our sins rather than burning in Hell. If that is the case then no one can be a church leader because we are all sinners.
So I asked the Antioch Church pastor to reconcile his strict and literal reading of the Bible verses regarding homosexual conduct with his refusal to apply the same treatment to the verses regarding slavery, women, remarriage, etc. He said “it is true the Bible says all those things about women, slavery, remarriage… but that is not what those verses mean.” I then asked whether the Bible I was reading was an accurate English translation of the Bible. He said it was the best and most accurate English translation of the Bible available. Ok, I asked “then how can you justify telling me all of those verses don’t mean what they say, but when it comes to homosexuality the words do mean what they say?” He sent me a written response that contained several historical, practical, and cultural reasons why the authors of the verses about remarriage, slavery and women didn’t really mean what they wrote.
We all know the real reason practically no one follows the Bible’s teachings on remarriage, slavery, women’s role in life, etc. is those teachings are wrong.
Those teachings cannot be reconciled with being a Christian. Following those teachings would make the world a worse not better place. For the same reasons the Bible verses regarding homosexuality should receive the same treatment and the church should stop using those verses to discriminate against homosexuals.
In response to my observation that everyone is a sinner so if being a sinner disqualifies a person from being a church leader then no one can be a church leader, the pastor basically said the reason homosexuals cannot be leaders is they don’t try not to sin and don’t repent when they do. That is what disqualifies them from being church leaders. He said if a homosexual repents and commits to not engage in homosexual behavior going forward then the homosexual can be a church leader even if he occasionally backslides. I asked if this concept applied to other types of sin. He said “yes” for instance it is a sin to be a glutton. So gluttons cannot be church leaders if they are “practicing” gluttons. But if a glutton commits to stop being a glutton he can be a church leader even if he occasionally “falls of the wagon” and “pigs out.” (This means I can never be a church leader because I will not commit to stop coveting Mrs. Hayek when I watch the movie “Grown Ups”).
It is not clear that the Bible creates such a distinction between sinners. But even if it does implementation and enforcement of such a distinction is very problematic. How do the members of the Antioch Church congregation know that the pastor isn’t watching “Grown Ups”, “Savages”, and “Once Upon a Time in Mexico” every night so he can have impure thoughts about Mrs. Hayek?
How do they know that a Sunday school teacher occasionally doesn’t swipe an item or two at the self-checkout aisle at Walmart? How would the pastor know whether the glutton is truly sorry for eating those three Big Macs? The rationale offered to justify discriminating against homosexuals because they are unrepentant sinners does not hold water.
There was a time when the words of the Bible were used to justify slavery. There was a time when the words of the Bible were used to justify treating women as second class citizens.
Those times have passed. They passed because society recognized that every word of the Bible is not the word of God and adhering to those teachings was wrong. There are many passages in the Bible that simply represent the cultures existing at the time the passage was written. In addition, I suspect some of the passages were written by men who wanted to maintain or achieve some advantage such as owning slaves or dominance over their wives. What better way to give legitimacy to such an advantage than to say that it is God’s will? The merciful, kind, omnipotent God described in the New Testament would never condone behavior or discrimination against one of his creations.
It is time churches and pastors stopped using the words of the Bible to discriminate against homosexuals and used their bully pulpits to remove not create reasons to argue and fight.
Len Anthony spent thirty years as in-house counsel for a public utility. He’s now semi-retired living in North Myrtle Beach, S.C.
Wanna sound off on FITS? Submit your letter to the editor or opinion column HERE.
194 comments
Well, if this doesn’t wake up Grand Tango, nothing will. We’ll probably hear from 9″ as well.
He may have taken my suggestion and is in Myrtle Beach selling his wares –” Grand Tomato” and “Grand Turnip” bobble-head dolls.
Look above. I think he’s out of the fox den, in a more “academic” tone.
haw! haw! — I saved that one for you – I didn’t want to “hog” all of the humor.. (chuckling)
Will miss watching him attempt to defend Josh Duggar.
While calling people gee gates Sandusky too.
he hates
What does the Quran say about homosexuality, and is it wrong, too?
From the Hadith – Abu Dawud (4448) – “If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.”
From the Quran – Qur’an (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women .. Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?… ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower of brimstone”
Interestingly enough, it appears that in Heaven, Muslim men will have “boys” to pleasure them, Qur’an (76:19) states, “And immortal boys will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls.”
Well what’s rather interesting is the author’s Preacher – who quotes the “abomination” is indeed quoting the Quran. So you have a local Baptist (most likely) church, where the leadership is openly quoting and following the Quran. Now that’s an interesting twist.
preach!
A minister was preparing a sermon on sex. His wife said, “Dear, I’m not sure you should discuss that subject. Sex is so private. Speak about something else like sailing.”
That night the minister’s wife became ill and was still in bed on Sunday morning. Her absence freed him to speak about sex. After
church was out, two of the women of the congregation visited the wife. They praised her husband about his sermon. He had spoken with such gusto and vigor.
The minister’s wife said, “How could he sound so smart? He only did it twice – once in the harbor and once just past the breakwater.
And both times he threw up”
Bravo! Frankly, I sail as often as is humanly possible.
very good!
Old lecherous sailer @ the yacht club:
“Hey baby, wanna help me raise my mast?”
Pretty young thing:
Sorry, sir…but your wife issued a “Small Craft Advisory”.
Badoom Psshhhh!
hmmm — my previous reply didn’t make the cut, so I give it to you again: that’s a new one for me…
(I’ve noticed that some of my posts vanish to ???)
You are too kind. It was a mere toss-off from your far superior bons mots.
Only because this is FITSNEWS…
PRO TIP:
The best part of sailing is getting blown offshore.
Well, as the author discovers…. the Bible actually doesn’t say these things about sexual identity…. it tells stories about ancient life and culture that we all INTERPRET as some kind of instruction manual for sexual identity and life in general….. but as ALWAYS THROUGHOUT ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY, it is NOT the religion that is teaching these people these ridiculous, horrible, truly evil things…. it is ONLY ever the false INTERPRETATIONS of cult leaders who wish to amass as much power for themselves by segregating and persecuting their fellow human beings…. and of course, no human being has the ability to know the will of God…. if anyone tells you they can, you can be sure of only one thing… THEY ARE LYING…. DON’T….. YOU……. BELEIVE IT……… God gave you a mind of your very own….. now use it ;)
“He died to take away your sins. Not your mind.”
You lost me at,’…it is ONLY ever the false…’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQvcJ7d93Zs
if you don’t care to share your own thoughts, ideas, and points in your own words, don’t bother ‘linking’ or quoting someone else’s… I really don’t care if or where I ‘lost you’…. it’s your loss hahaha ;)
Its a numbers game. The churches can’t afford to kick out everyone who is divorced and remarried, or who had premarital sex and don’t regret it, or who eat pork and don’t regret it, etc. so they simply ignore those sections of the Bible. Heck they even ignore some of their biggest issues, if that becomes to complicated money wise. When is the last time anyone heard the pastor of a church openly identify the church members who have had an abortion or who have had an affair?
Sorry Len, there are still plenty of churches that will not allow divorced people to take leadership roles and a large group of churches that will “hate the sin and love the sinner” when folks are caught in situations where they are unrepentant, forcing them to step down from leadership roles. I will agree that many churches have moved away from what should be a fundamental tenant – the fact that some have doesn’t mean the Bible is wrong.
As for your assertion that “…every time a heterosexual male sees Salma Hayek he sins.”, you’re wrong again – she does nothing for me though I’m sure she does stir the “lust” of some. If you obsess over her you are definitely into the “sin mode” but acknowledging that she is a “fine example of feminine pulchritude” isn’t a sin. It all has to do with where your heart is.
As for your discussion with your pastor, “…He said “it is true the Bible says all those things about women, slavery, remarriage… but that is not what those verses mean…”, I’d suggest you find a pastor who actually believes what he preaches.
The Bible means exactly what it says “…Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ…” in Ephesians 6:5. Slavery was a very real accepted institution at the time and Paul was telling slaves to be content with their lives and honor God by being obedient – but he was going much further, remember that Paul identified himself as “A bond Servant of Christ” in Romans 1:1, he is identifying himself as in that lowliest of stations and obligating himself to the obedient servitude of Ephesians 5:6. He really meant that deacons (really leaders) be “husbands of one wife” in 1 Timothy 3. Marriage doesn’t have a 50% failure rate until you add in all of the remarriages (and even then, it barely approaches 50%). The verse is telling you that you should pick leaders who have discernment and the ability to work out their lives in an appropriate manner. Find a new church my friend and while you’re at it, pick up a copy of Strong’s Concordance – this stuff really isn’t that difficult.
As a Catholic I find the following – divorced people are now welcome again – and can even receive communion. And for gays, as the Pope now says, “who am I to judge.” I really like this Pope. He’s shaking up hundreds of years of dogma which were just plain are silly. There are still pockets of conservative Catholics. In Central America, Mexico, parts of the US and Europe. But most American Catholics look the other way over a lot of items, and the same is true in Europe and South America. As for the Bible, and we’re talking New Testament – it’s nothing more than 4 contending stories of the life of Jesus, and then a bunch of writings by the Apostles and then others who saw an advantage specific to their time and place, to their particular writings. I’ll stick with Mathew and Mark, split the difference, try and live a good life and not mistreat others. Beyond that – I’ll take my judgement when it arrives.
Deism and Buddhism would like a word with you.
Len is a psychotic sick puppy. Now, isn’t there a some felonies this vomit has committed? Him serving time behind bars will do his mind good.
What felonies have you committed creep?
I know I’m going to shock a few readers here, but the old testament is not a Christian book. It is pre-Christian, but it does teach us about human failure and how other religions fail.
Len, Humans don’t like rules. I don’t like rules. If you could miraculously get everyone to agree on the rules, the first thing we would do would be to violate every one.
If you have any doubt, read about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. There was only one %#@% rule. Don’t eat fruit from one tree. Follow that one rule and they would’ve lived in paradise forever. We are not different from Adam and Eve.
Whatever God tried; man failed.
Death and hardship before the flood didn’t work.
Selection of the fittest, Noah and his family didn’t work.
The careful nurturing of a chosen people and bringing them out of bondage with miracles and wonders failed.
Any religion that is dependent on following rules will fail. That is the true benefit of the old testament. It proves that they fail and we need not repeat the same mistakes. Rules are for our benefit not set up to cause us to stumble.
You don’t use the word “love” once in your article. How can that be? You use “repent” twice, unrepentant once and never use the words forgive or forgiveness. Much of the progress against slavery, discrimination and movement toward tolerance was made by very committed Christians. Get away from the rules and ask “Do I love God and my fellow man? How can I show it?
I know I’m going to shock a few readers here, but the old testament is not a Christian book.
Various Commandments on Lines 1 through 10.
Mr. Anthony is out of his league here. While questioning the Bible can be spiritually healthy, he should find someone better educated in theology to seek answers.
I don’t claim to be a Theology scholar. However I can address a few of his issues because I have taken the time to study and seek answers; The Bible does not command me to be quiet. The verse he is referring to is in the book of Timothy and is telling the women not to assume teaching positions in the church bc the women there were not educated and therefore were unable to discern false teachings from the Word of God. Jesus sought to bring women up in society instead of being viewed as property.
The Bible does not say women are to be submissive to their husbands. It say women are to submit to their husbands and husbands are to love their make their wives happy. In my opinion, that was the beginning of the Women’s Movement.
The Book of Leviticus mentions many sexual acts which are detestable to God including sleeping with animals, your sister, your mother, your aunt or another man. I think we all would agree most of the acts are disgusting and unnatural. Many of the rules were out of practicality, for obvious reasons. And many of the rules were health issues.
Homosexuality was widespread during Paul’s time. Romans 1:26-27 says that homosexuality is strictly forbidden. God does not encourage us to fulfill our own desires (even normal ones).
And Mr. Anthony, if you’re having trouble obeying the 10th commandment, maybe you should not watch movies that temp you.
Finally, the WHOLE Bible IS the inerrant word of God. Cherry picking the parts you like is not Christianity.
*tempt
So, how do you feel about divorce? Slavery?
Obviously, God wants us to strive to keep our marriage vows permanent. However, the Bible makes concessions made for adultery. Abandonment and addictions fall into that same category I believe.
“Abandonment and addictions fall into that same category I believe.”
You “believe”? So, you are interpreting Scripture to suit your own values? Interesting.
And, you failed to address slavery. Seems Mr. Anthony isn’t the only one cherry picking.
Could you please cite the verse in the Bible advocating slavery?
Wait, you are arguing that they Bible does not condone slavery?
I’m sure you realize that slavery was a reality during Bible times.
Ahhhh! Now we are getting somewhere. So you chalk up the references to slavery to historical context, then? Why can’t you do the same with homosexuality? Cherry picking again?
The Bible does not condone slavery.
you are joking, right?
Casting pearls appears to be what I’m doing…
LOL! Bless your heart. Will pray for you on Sunday :)
you should throw them farther… they’re landing at your feet.
Off to enjoy my holiday weekend. Thanks for the debate.
Read your Bible more Mom.
The Bible does not condone slavery.
*Glowers at waiter*
TBG said CHECK, PLEASE!!”
‘honey… this beer tastes… funn…”
Mom, not only does the Bible tell me how badly I can beat my slaves (apparently to within an inch of their lives, according to Exodus 20: 20-21), but it also assures me that my slaves will be judged by the one true God (Jesus/Yaweh/HS) if they become disobedient as a result of my being harsh with them (1 Peter 2:18).
Not only that, but apparently the Bible is even against the American Revolution! Yep, I bs you not.
Romans 13:
“Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.”
How does that verse go over among all your patriotic American friends? I bet that’s a bitter biblical pill to have to swallow for a lot of religious conservatives in the US. I mean, given that the Revolutionary War was pretty much a perfect violation of this clear New Testament teaching (so, no “Old Covenant” escape hatch on this one..sorry). You guys must talk about it all the time, right? I’m assuming you struggle with it, since you’re so against cherry picking the Bible.
yes it does.
Can we put murder, theft, coveting, parental respect and idolatry in “historical context”, also?
Can someone PLEASE inform Judge Roy Moore that the Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament, which doesn’t count anymore?
*asks innocently*
Can we put murder, theft, coveting, parental respect and idolatry in “historical context”, also?
——-
we do.
There is a tendency to look at slavery as something of the past. But it is estimated that there are today over 27 million people in the world who are subject to slavery: forced labor, sex trade, inheritable property, etc. As those who have been redeemed from the slavery of sin, followers of Jesus Christ should be the foremost champions of ending human slavery in the world today. The question arises, though, why does the Bible not speak out strongly against slavery? Why does the Bible, in fact, seem to support the practice of human slavery?
The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15;Ephesians 6:9;Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was based more on economics; it was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.
The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible condemns race-based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27). At the same time, the Old Testament did allow for economic-based slavery and regulated it. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.
In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing,” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8–10).
Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God’s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. He will see, with Paul, that a slave can be “a brother in the Lord” (Philemon 1:16). A person who has truly experienced God’s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible’s prescription for ending slavery
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html
You know the slavery was eliminate mostly by the efforts of Christians. There was very little progress eliminating slavery in other non Christian cultures until they came under the influence other Christian West
Sure! But we are talking about the Bible which does not condemn slavery, and only goes so far as to tell you how you should treat your slaves.
We are at fault when we try to judge ancient cultures by modern and affluent standards. In the past society wasn’t developed and prosperous enough to afford permanent prisons. So the punishments would be what we consider cruel and unusual.
What is difficult for us to understand is how difficult life was in biblical times. In many cases the fate of a slave was better than the free poor. Famine could wipe out the poor but preserve the slave. Of course that was not the case in Antebellum times during the African slave period. The productive period of the historian Josephus was as a prisoner and slave and he was freed and took the name of his former owner. You forget the God freed the slaves in Egypt and slavery was not part of God’s original plan of creation.
There have been periods of Christian moral decline. For example the religious wars of Europe and colonial/slave period. But, there has been a lot of progress in the Christian world in science, medicine, education, law and self government that would not have occurred or greatly delayed had it not been for Christian influence.
National Turner, John Brown, Harriet Becker Stowe, Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, and Dr. Martin Luther King all leaned heavily on Biblical scriptures in there defense of justice.
I do not disagree. Why, then, can we not use the same “historical context” that is used to excuse attitudes towards slavery & the role of women in the home & in church to homosexuality?
Slavery seems to be acceptable:
Exodus 20:10
Exodus 21:2-11, 20-21, 26-27, 32
Exodus 22:1-3
Exodus 23:12
Leviticus 19:20-22
Leviticus 25:39-55
Deuteronomy 5:14
Deuteronomy 15:12-18
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Deuteronomy 23:15-16
Deuteronomy 24:7
Slavery is the natural order of things. Today we still have slaves in the USA.. We call them public school students.
I thought we called them Faux news viewers and ditto heads.
I also like the parts that allow you to murder you enemy, their sons, and all of the women who are not virgins, and then keep the virgins for yourself to rape and enslave.
Can I keep the sluts (but not the skanks) and let someone else have the virgins? The sluts know what they are doing. The virgins have to be taught everything and are slow to catch on much of the time. The virgins also frequently lack a robust vaginal immune system and are quick to pick up low grade vaginal infections because their hoo ha’s immune system has never been challenged a lot.
Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
Exodus 21:20-21
When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
You “believe”? So, you are interpreting Scripture to suit your own values? Interesting.
——–
every one of us approaches reality with the brains you have, not the brains you might want or wish to have at a later time.
If we believe what we’re told, rather than what we believe is true, it’s no defense against being wrong…. and so the inverse.
Everyone interprets everything – even if that interpretation says you have to take someone else’s word as gospel..so to speak.
And, by the way, the Bible as we know it today, is made up of books that were “cherry picked”. There’s a fascinating documentary about why certain books were included in the canon and some were discarded.
You are correct. There were originally many more books than what we see in our Bible today. However, YOU didn’t get to cherry picking.
No, I didn’t. But a bunch of priests with their own agendas sure did the picking and choosing.
I’m curious. What do you think their agendas were?
Where do I start? The same agendas any group in power would have. The priests in power included those books that were most in line with their own theology. For a time, Luther even wanted to take out the books of James & Revelation, among others.
It’s nice that you saw a TV documentary about the Bible. But if you’re really interested in the subject, maybe you should take a theology class.
Seriously? I think you should take your own advice. What part are you refuting?
While the text of the Bible may have been the inspired word of God, it was passed down by word of mouth, transcribed, translated & organized by human beings. There is quite a lot of room for error there, wouldn’t you say?
How do you decide which parts are believable and which parts are simply human error?
And, there’s the problem. What is absolute? Whose interpretation is the correct interpretation? Which translation? Which books? Even you, who believe that it is the inerrant word of God, use your own values & experiences to interpret scripture, as you’ve shown in our discussion of divorce below.
Use you own values and experiences is rather limiting, don’t you agree?
What if you are in error and mislead others? I am not sure the solitary
one’s experiences and values are found in a vacuum.
Here’s a quick exercise I give to my terrorism students; very relevant with all of the current emphasis on jihad – where in the Quran is this passage found?
“However, in the cities of the nations Allah is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as Allah has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against Allah.”
It is, of course, not from the Quran (although many more offensive passages are). Change the “Allahs” to “the Lord your God” and it’s Deuteronomy, Chapter 20 (v.16-18).
If nothing else, the kids start to see that any religion can be twisted, interpreted, and used toward an agenda. Spirituality requires a little thought…
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” – Bertrand Russell
Where they teach you to twist and pervert it to your advantage. Those classes are awesomely full of crap.
Mamatiger. You have bought the Bauer thesis, made fasionable again by
Bart Ehrman and members of the Jesus Seminar. Until you and all who post investigate the holes in this argument, you best leave comment at the door because you are out of your league.
EVERYone is permitted to “cherrypick” anything they wish, especially from the ancient texts. Take what you like, leave the rest, but be consistent in doing so, and don’t condemn others for you allow for yourself. The Bible has no more authority (or truth) than the Sunday funnies.
EVERYone is permitted to “cherrypick” anything they wish, especially from the ancient texts. Take what you like, leave the rest,
———-
well, *yeah*… now that the 400 year Inquisition is over!
..but good luck getting a look at *all* of the ancient texts!
Bullshit. The bible is merely fantasy and misogyny.
Also, funny how you talk about Jesus this and Jesus that to excuse all of the teaching of the Old Testament but then cite the Old Testament to support your beliefs. The think about the Bible is that it is constantly being reinterpreted every day by religious people to excuse all the crap that is in there so they can continue to keep what they like and condemn what they don’t. It is the biggest farce of the Christian religion.
So, let me get this straight. You think the Bible is the biggest farce of the Christian religion?
I think Christians’ constant reinterpretation of the Bible is. It says what you want it to say. You interpret it in a way that suits your means and have a thousand excuses why all the fucked up shit in it doesn’t really count.
I would agree that constant reinterpretation of the Bible is fucked up. It’s by no means an “easy read”. I’ve been reading it for some 40 years and damned if it still says the same thing all these years later.
I’ve been reading it for some 40 years…
Evelyn Wood on Line One.
good point! No wonder… probably hasn’t read all of Numbers yet.
Hey Mom! Merry Christmas from you know who!
You could at least send me a card!
AMEN!!!!!!!
The Bible does not say women are to be submissive to their husbands. It say women are to submit to their husbands…
*Snaps fingers @ waiter*
Check, please!
*Snaps fingers @ wife*
beer! … and you can take these empties.
Mom – from a person who is questioning the Bible and his Christians beliefs, I’ve not found it to be spiritually healthy. Seeking answers to many questions I have about the Bible, questions that have to do with the simple logic of many things, has caused me to become less spiritual.
As I become less religious, my hope is that when I get in a conversation about religion I won’t become antagonistic and subconsciously hope to win an argument. So when I ask questions about the Bible and the Christian faith to a believer such as yourself, I’m at least trying to understand how you reconcile so many issues that allows you or anyone to believe without having the same questions.
How does a Christian reconcile the teaching that “God never changes” but we see a god in the OT that slaughtered thousands if not millions, and then we get God in the flesh in the NT who says “turn the other cheek”?
How does one reconcile a heaven that lasts for eternity and find it even remotely enjoyable if you have a loved one who is not there and whom you know must be burning in hell for eternity? On that note, the Muslim terrorist may behead someone for being a nonbeliever and we find that detestable. That punishment, while detestable, is short. A Christian says to the non-believer, you will burn in hell for eternity. The terrorist almost seems more humane.
I’ve heard pastors say they don’t necessarily believe the Adam and Eve story and it is mostly an ancient’s way of explaining something they didn’t understand. Well, doing something like that is “cherrypicking” what to believe. Science has proven the world is not just 6,000 years old. So it makes sense a believer must relent on the story of creation and say it is flawed. But once one starts cherrypicking what to believe that opens up the possibility that anything in the Bible can be in error.
There are so many other things that bother me. For many years I just decided to focus on Jesus and gave little importance to the OT because I couldn’t reconcile that god with the god of the NT. But any Christian church treats the “sacrifice” of Jesus as an unequaled event in history, as though Jesus did something so incredible we cannot hardly comprehend his sacrifice. But if Jesus was God, he knew his fate after death and he supposedly was sacrificing himself for “all mankind”. How does Jesus’s sacrifice compare to the soldier who throws himself on a grenade to save only one or two, and who does not know his fate after death. Who has made the more admirable sacrifice?
What is so great about Jesus being tempted for 40 days by the devil and “surviving” it. If Jesus was God in the flesh, is that really an accomplishment? And what of the devil/Lucifer? Is it logical that an eternal being who is arguably smarter than any man who has ever lived would still get his jollies by creating chaos on earth?
I’ll stop here, but there is much more that I honestly don’t have answers for and cannot reconcile in the Christian teaching as I understand them. If you have any comments on the above, I’m interested to hear. .
There is a narrow road, Len. We are required to walk on this narrow road, you and me and all God’s people. God loves all regardless. But you cannot say because God loves you anyway, you don’t want to walk the narrow road. Satan did not walk that road and you know the consequence. You must understand that our IDENTITY is not in our sexual preference, but our enduring identity is in our relationship with our God…and everyone knows the high standards of that relationship. Every man/woman is on his/her own in this relationship with God. Good luck with your thoughts.
and -few- are those who find it.
I’m glad at least the two of us are safe.
how did a thoughtful, rational piece find its way to Fits?
Some people don’t realize that the Ten Commandments aren’t
multiple-choice.
Under present law it is the Ten Suggestions. LOL
blasphemy!
“Homosexuality” is a natural phenomena. Examples in the animal and plant kingdom abound. Certain plants will turn hermaphrodite if local population pressures occur. Animals will occasionally do the same, for the same reasons. Amongst human tribal environments, the change from boy to queer to outright “gay” is documented.
It may be that The Bible speaks to this curious question.
In our modern big cities, these changes from “nature’s way” are of course also documented … “That’s The Way God Planned It.”
However to offer special legal rights for being such individuals oe groups is certainly not called for. Modern society is not composed of “special” interest groups.
Everything I read brings up a song.Saw them,too-July 5th 1970
And yes,I want special rights.There ought to be a,Gay Day,and straight men are required to have sex with any faggot who wants them.I already have third in line w/Kirkman Finlay…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V0Vu_utUZY
Agree. Only straight white males deserve special rights. (Now let me guess which category YOU belong to . . . ).
All U.S. Citizens deserve “special” rights. Read the U.S. Constitution … The “Bill Of Right”.
All U.S. Citizens deserve “special” rights. Read the U.S. Constitution … The “Bill Of Right”. These “special” rights are available to no one else in the whole wide world. That is specifically why many folks want to come here … and become Citizens!
And it matters not, race, religion, color or creed.
Me? I’m Black Irish. … And you can marry a goat for all I care, as long as it does not raise my taxes.
Slavery seems to be acceptable:
Exodus 20:10
Exodus 21:2-11, 20-21, 26-27, 32
Exodus 22:1-3
Exodus 23:12
Leviticus 19:20-22
Leviticus 25:39-55
Deuteronomy 5:14
Deuteronomy 15:12-18
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Deuteronomy 23:15-16
Deuteronomy 24:7
The science does not exist to make proclamations about sexuality with any kind of finality. One thing is self-evident, however; people will damn a thing if they think they can get away with it. In the stead of science, we use opinion. In my opinion, the truth in the Holy Scriptures is fundamentally true, if not literally true. But I also believe that the Federal minimum wage is destructive to incentive and that middle class tax money is used to fund the Ex-Im bank, yet many people believe in promoting both.
But I also believe that the Federal minimum wage is destructive to incentive
——-
Don’t feel bad.. lots of people believe in Sasquatch and trickle-down theory. Today, it’s not politically correct to point and snicker at the dumb kid. :)
[pained smile] well.. bless your heart.
Homosexuality is a sin only in the eyes of people who think a 1,000-year-old book is anything more than a curiosity.
Rumor has it that you think sex with minors should be legalized.
That’d make Josh Duggar happy.
Sounds great!
Go to a different church. Not all are the same way. Try several different churches: Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, UCC. You will find many different opinions, but those denominations tend to be more open-minded.
try Free Will Baptists or Primitive Baptists
Yeah, one that uses rocks instead of pine needles in the landscaping. You can’t go wrong, LOL!
The bible, plan and simple, is horse shit.
… like you.
Great piece,but one thing isn’t mentioned;identifying someone by their sexuality is a fairly new concept.About 150 years old.Most ministers I know don’t believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible,while an unbelievable number of Christians still do.To those,I’d suggest reading the book,Falling in Love With Mystery.I read it online.
At the most basic level, the Anthony the Liberal is anti-God. He is an intellectually dishonest, unprincipled, mentally immature, spoiled child who is forever in search of a world without moral consequence. That is why the Liberal makes “The State” his god. The Liberal worships THE STATE. The Liberal attempts to use his god (government) to eliminate all moral consequences for immoral behavior. In the name of “Justice,” the Liberal also pretends to make his god (The State) “level” all peoples so that the wise or the beautiful or the genius will have no advantage over the unwise, the ugly and the simpleton in the marketplace. The Liberal calls this tyrannical State of Government, UTOPIA.
The Liberal vainly imagines that freedom from moral consequence can be secured by a collectivist, totalitarian state. Liberals use moralistic platitudes and catchy phrases like “social justice” and “The Brotherhood of Man” to appeal to the naive masses who are duped into believing that the ultimate goals of Liberals are genuinely benign and beneficient. However at the root, like the Prince in Machiavelli’s greatest work, the single moral principle that Liberals adhere to is the continual accumulation and centralization of all power. The ideologies of Liberals must inevitably end in world-wide totalitarianism. Liberals hate Individualism because it demands moral responsibility. Liberals support collectivism because they hope to eliminate the need for moral responsibility.
Any religion or religious person who believes or teaches that there are moral consequences for sin, is the enemy of Anthony and must be oppressed.
Right on baby!!! Right on. Gotta go – start the long weekend early. Take care Tango.
I am a liberal to some degree – well maybe a moderate Democrat. I don’t worship the State, sure as heck not the state government we have. I believe there are consequences for your actions. If you cheat on your wife, yeah maybe you go to Hell, but she finds out – you’ll wish you were in Hell. I don’t believe in killing people, or stealing, or a whole bunch of other items. I think you treat people with kindness and respect, as you would Jesus. As Jesus would do. I don’t try and eliminate any advantage smart people have over dumb people, nor do I seek to accumulate power. I support collective efforts to help the poor, to give those with less opportunity more opportunity – equal opportunity. But hey, buddy, glad your back.
True justice is not blind, her eyes are fully open to both the wrongs and the potentials of the individual. That is why Christ, though fully justified as God in flesh, did not condemn the prostitute. True justice is alloyed with grace, truth and mercy!
Liberals howl if a homosexual transvestite or convicted felon is even slightly offended, but they openly bash Christians.
No they don’t. We were talking about you earlier today – we missed you.
When someone tries and bash me,I throw em a good sucker punch.There are way too many Christians,who don’t think they can go from standing up,to lying down,in a nanosecond…
My fav bible passage is Deuteronomy 13:13-19….the one that commands you to wipe out entire villages with special emphasis on murdering women and children…very ISIS-like.
Yahweh uh Akbar!
…women should … wear hats in church…
You might want to provide chapter and verse for that one, Chief.
Macys 3:16
Macys 3:16
Thanks.
Initially, TBG thought that it was from First or Second Caucasians…but that most mainstream churches ceased adherence about the time of Vatican II.
On the other hand, TBG should have known this was wrong as the AMEish are still very observant, but have never included either of the Books of Caucasians in their version of the Bible…
You beat me to that one! Of all the whiny liberal anti-Christian fluff in this rant, that was the silliest.
See 1st Corinthians 11:2-8.
Nice try, but that’s not nearly ad petty sounding as “wearing hats to church.” Your exposed nerve is showing- so you have a beef with Christianity. Big deal…doesn’t bother me a whit. Get in line.
Len, as with any text, the Bible must be read for both content and context. Your failure to understand any of the context seems to be at the center of your “issues”.
Consider that 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 addresses the issue of women and head coverings. The context of the entire passage of 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 is submission to the God-given order and “chain of command.” A “covering” on a woman’s head is used as an illustration of the order, headship, and the authority of God. The key verse of this passage is 1 Corinthians 11:3 “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” The implications of this verse are found in the rest of the passage. The order is: God the Father, God the Son, the man or husband, and the woman or wife. The veil or covering on the head of a believing Corinthian wife showed that she was under the authority of her husband, and therefore under submission to God.
Within this passage is also verse 10: “For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.” Why is that important to angels? The relationship of God with men is something that angels watch and learn from (1 Peter 1:12). Therefore, a woman’s submission to God’s delegated authority over her is an example to angels. The holy angels, who are in perfect and total submission to God, expect that we, as followers of Christ, be the same.
This covering not only means a cloth but also can refer to a woman’s hair length. How can we say that? We must take this verse in the context or the setting in which it is presented. “Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering” (1 Corinthians 11:14-15). Therefore, in the context of this passage, a woman who is wearing her hair longer marks herself out distinctively as a woman and not a man. The Apostle Paul is saying here that in the Corinthian culture, when a wife’s hair was longer than her husband’s, it showed her submission to his headship. The roles of the male and female are designed by God to portray a profound spiritual lesson, that is of submission to the will and the order of God.
But why is hair an issue in this passage? The apostle Paul is addressing an issue related to the Corinthian culture that was being allowed to disrupt the church. For a woman to have a shaved head was a disgrace (and, in Jewish thinking, a sign of mourning,Deuteronomy 21:12). Her hair was her “glory” (1 Corinthians 11:15). In the Corinthian culture, women normally wore a head covering as a symbol of their submission to their husbands. Paul affirms the rightness of following that cultural mandate—to dispense with the head coverings on women would send the entirely wrong signal to the culture at large. In fact, Paul says that, if a Christian woman refuses her head covering, she might as well shave her hair off, too (verse 6). A woman who refused to wear a covering in that culture was basically saying, “I refuse to submit to God’s order.” Therefore, the apostle Paul is teaching the Corinthians that hair length or the wearing of a “covering” by the woman was an outward indication of a heart attitude of submission to God and to His established authority.
God’s order is that the husband is the head of the wife as God is the head of Christ, but there is no inequality or inferiority implied. God and Christ are equal and united, just as the husband and the wife are one. This is not a passage that teaches the woman is inferior to man or that she should be submissive to every man. It is teaching God’s order and spiritual headship in the marriage relationship. In the Corinthian culture, a woman who covered her head during worship or when she was in public displayed her submission to authority.
In today’s culture, we no longer view a woman’s wearing of a head covering as a sign of submission. In most modern societies, scarves and hats are fashion accessories. A woman has the choice to wear a head covering if she views it as a sign of her submission to the authority of her husband. However, it is a personal choice and not something that should be used to judge spirituality. The real issue here is the heart attitude of obedience to God’s authority and submission to His established order “as to the LORD” (Ephesians 5:22). God is far more concerned with an attitude of submission than an outward display of submission via a head covering.First Timothy 2:9-10, “I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”
Corinthians 11:6 “For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.”
Paul said a lot of shit that HE thought people should do, but there was NOTHING in the OT, or anything Jesus said, to justify any of it.
On the other hand, I know for a fact that God often wears a panama hat, esp. when he plays golf with Moses and St. Peter. They used to do a foursome with Jesus, but Jesus always won by divine grace, which is no fun for the others. The three are thinking about asking the Dalai Lama, but he shoots in the 90’s and is always chasing his balls – it’s the robes, you know. Then there’s the Pope, but he’s usually out fundraising for PETA or Friends of the Earth. And let’s face it, the last Archbishop of Canterbury who could shoot in the 70’s was 1963, but he’s spending a thousand years in Purgatory for doubting the existence of C. S. Lewis.
Jesus, Moses and an old man were teeing off on the 16th hole on heaven’s golf course.
Back when Jesus used to play…
The 16th hole is a short par 3 over a lake. Moses is the first to tee off; he steps up and swings, and the ball dives right for the water.
He quickly spreads his arms, the water parts, and the ball rolls across the bottom of the lake and up on to the green.
The others complement him on his shot, and Jesus steps up for his turn.
Like Moses, Jesus’ ball heads straight for the water, but when it gets there, it bounces and then rolls across the surface of the lake, until it, too, rolls up onto the green.
After showering him with complements, the old man steps up to take his shot. His ball also dives for the lake, but it bounces off the back of a turtle in the lake, and onto the far shore. There, a squirrel picks up the ball and quickly heads for the woods.
As the others begin to laugh, a hawk swoops down and picks up the squirrel. The hawk flies over the green, the squirrel struggles and the ball falls out of the squirrels mouth, bounces once on the green, and then drops neatly into the cup.
Jesus turns to the old man with a smile and says, “Nice shot Dad!”
My absolutely favorite golfing joke of all time! Blessings on you for telling it!
And a slight aside..
I have tried, as have you and St. Shiftus, through humorous messages, to hint that a person’s religion is such a private thing, that to try to persuade someone to join you with words alone, is both futile and pornographic. On the other hand, a life LIVED and one Word are both blesséd and salvific.
One day Saint Peter and Jesus were playing golf. They were at the tee of a beautiful par 3, with a lake right in the middle of the fairway. Saint Peter selects a 5 iron, tees-up his ball and swings. His ball sails very high and lands in the middle of the lake. He mutters to himself and tees-up a second ball, this time selecting a 4 iron. This shot was perfect; landing right in the middle of the green.
Jesus pauses for a moment to ponder his club selection. “Hmmmm….. Arnold Palmer would use this,” he says as he picks up a 5 iron.
“But, Jesus. My 5 iron shot ended up in the lake. You should use a 4 iron!”
“Nope. Arnie would use a 5,” insisted Jesus.
So, Jesus swings hard and alas his shot ends up in the middle of the lake too. Jesus commands Saint Peter to retrieve the ball. Muttering to himself, “He must think I’m Moses”; Saint Peter dutifully wades out and retrieves the ball. This happens twice more and finally a soaked, tired and irate Saint Peter tells Jesus, “You can hit that infernal 5-iron again…but you are going to get your own damn ball!”
Jesus mumbles something about seeing Arnie make the exact shot and takes a(n) (al)mighty swing with the 5-iron.
*Kerplunk*
Jesus strolls over to the lake and, being Jesus, walks out on the water to retrieve his ball. As Jesus is walking on the water trying to locate his ball a foursome comes up to the tee, sees a man walking on the water and one of them exclaims, “Who does he think he is? Jesus Christ?”
“No,” explains Saint Peter, “He is Jesus Christ. He thinks he’s Arnold Palmer.”
Thank You!
and after all the shit Paul gave Peter over traditional mores, too! He even waffles a bit “if anyone…”
it’s a shame for a woman to go without a head covering.
1 Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
Hat
A hat is a head covering. It can be worn for protection against the elements, ceremonial reason, religious reasons, safety, or as a fashion accessory. In the past, hats were an indicator of social status. In the military, they may denote nationality, branch of service, rank and/or regiment. Some hats have a protective function. As examples, the hard hat protects construction workers’ heads from injury by falling objects, a sun hat shades the face and shoulders from the sun, and a Ushanka fur hat with fold-down ear-flaps keeps the head warm. Some hats are worn for ceremonial purposes, such as the mortarboard, which is worn during graduation ceremonies. Some hats are worn by members of a certain profession, such as the Toque worn by chefs. Some hats have a religious functions, such as the turban worn by Sikhs.
Good Grief short bus pilot!! Dabo aint taught u that verse?
Well, you know what the Bible says… (wait for it…)
Exactly what King James wanted it to.
So, um, as an attorney…if you put someone on the stand and caught them in a multitude of lies…why would you believe anything they had to say?
$$$$$
Just because you can’t believe someone, that doesn’t get any closer to the truth. If someone always lied that would get you the truth eventually.
The Devil made me do it! LOL
TBG was referring to establishing credibility.
TBG (much like Dwight Yoakam) tells the truth, ‘cept when he lies.
I’d share my pizza with you if you passed me a joint at a concert… and give you a ride home.
But if you told me you voted for Bachmann for president at a Starbucks… uh..
Wouldn’t that depend on the severity of the lies, weighed on the scale of his character and how he came through with things that really mattered.
We *all* tell a multitude of lies – if we’re sane.
Those filthy child molesting gays, a god fearing Christian like me would never do something like that!
Poor Josh. After watching his mom pump out siblings for all those years like a clown car, he was just anxious to do as The Bible commanded him and begin multiplying. If he began molesting other guys, he may have interpreted the “be fruitful” (and multiply) thing as “be fruit-like or be fruity. His life will be a state of confusion from now on.
So, you ‘decided’ to ‘give church another try’ after 40 years.
Why? Why did you after 40 years ‘decide’ to come back to ‘church’?
Are you seeking Christ? Do you feel a void in your life that you need answers to? Is there some medical condition that you or a friend or family member that you’d like to get some spiritual answers to?
No. What we see is that you wanted to confront a pastor about homosexuality. We then see you make the statement
“The Bible does say homosexual behavior is a sin. But the Bible also
says a lot of other things that the Antioch Church, its pastor and the
vast majority of Christians ignore.”
What you incorrectly assume is that Christians will suddenly say ‘Oh by golly gee, I guess its all wrong, homosexuality is ok’
Heres the dirty secret Len, Christians are sinners who have been forgiven AND have repented of their sins. That means Len, we TURN AWAY from the path we were on. What you cynically say is that you want to continue n with a sinful lifestyle and MAKE the Bible say what it doesn’t.
God says what He says, and He means what He says. So give it up about the homosexual is ok diatribe.
??? $73.. per-hr @mi2//
….
???https://WorldStarHipHopleep.com/tap/tab….
“Christians are sinners who have been forgiven and have repented of their sins.”
That is what Christians should be, but unfortunately I see little evidence repentance in most people who call themselves Christian. Most people I know who call themselves “conservative Christians” ignore most of the teachings of Christ.
Favorite Prayer of the Conservative Christian.
Heavenly father forgive me. I have sinned against you. You were starving and I did not feed you, you were thirsty and I did not give you drink, you were a stranger and I turned you away, you were sick and I did not help you; but my portfolio was down, I am saving for retirement, I needed a new car, the roof on my vacation home had a leak, and the club just assessed the membership. But i believe in you. Here are a few dollars for the collection plate. See you next week, same time same place, same prayer. Please keep my mansion in heaven clean, till I get there; but I don’t want to go anytime soon. Things are pretty cushy here on earth.
God says what he says and means what he says.. So I suggest a few more stop pointing out the mote in their neighbor’s eye and start working on the beam in their own. When no one in the world is starving, when all have access to treatment for curable disease, when all the poor have shelter and clothing, maybe then you can point to your moral superiority and chastise the choices of your neighbor.
Dear Mary,
Yes, well, Paul also says that he doesn’t allow women to preach in his churches, either. But the Bible says that which the Bible says..
And besides, why should we believe ANYONE who rode her husband’s ass all the way to Bethlehem?
Sin-cerely,
Jethro Tull
LMAO!
Not to mention shamelessly plugging a Japanese car company.
God doesn’t talk or write books.Shut UP,Bitch.
How would you know what God does or does not do?
Does I t matter to you WHAT God says? Or are you just having a tantrum that people believe God and not your lifestyle movement?
9 doesn’t profess to be a repentant Christian. You do. Yet you sit in judgment over the sins of others, and ignore your own. You show hate and anger toward others and what you judge to be sin. I suspect that you are much like the other conservative Christians I described above. I am willing to bet there is more of self-righteousness in you than repentance. How many starving people did you feed today? How many sick did you take in? For whom did you show compassion? For what sinner did you show love in the name of Christ.
Perhaps you can work on those things for a while. Try reading Matthew 25: 31-46 and start working on your explanations for why you did so little good in the world, with all you were given.
The title of this thread is The Bible Is Wrong on Homosexuality. I addressed the authors un-biblical view that homosexuality is wrong.
So whats wrong with the authors position?
Plenty. First of all, this article is read by many people. It can have a motivational nudge to someone. Maybe someone reads this and decides to avoid repenting and seeking God. Our time on this earth is short…and hell is eternal. The consequences are enormous.
Secondly the Bible IS NOT wrong on homosexuality. It was a sin, and still is. It does’nt matter how many rainbow flags you wave, or whether you pretend you are ‘getting married’.
Now, lets talk about you.
Obviously you are not a conservative Christian, and because I am..which means that I take the Word of God for what it says…I am not a Christian in your eyes.
What I do, and I do plenty, however, I know I could do more. But what I do, I do for God…NOT YOU. I wont talk about what I and our church is involved with, because its not your concern. It is between Jesus and us.
If you would start being a little more salt and light, then this world would start seeing a difference between them and Christs followers. When you take a position that ‘all is well, and to each their own’ the world doesn’t see a need for repentance. They continue on…spiraling downhill.
Homosexuality is a sexual sin. Incest isn’t to be condoned, neither is pedophilia, or bestiality.
Jesus gave the Apostle Paul the task to go to the Gentiles and spread the message. Paul was inline with other Scripture about homosexuality.
The Bible is not wrong about homosexuality.
whats wrong with bestiality?
Love,
Dabo “soybean wind” Swinney
JMorman,
When u got married I assume u are? Did u have someone tell u that u could only marry a Red Head, BBW, Blonde, Asian? So why do u feel its okay to tell 2 men or 2 women they can’t be together.
Not my priveldge to give blessing or condemnation on anything on my own accord.
When I have these kind of questions, I go to God’s Word the Bible. It’s God’s wisdom and truth that I and millions of other Bible believing Christians follow.
Let me translate: I hate when the truth slaps me in my face… So ill just dance around the ?
Re translate: Im still in the closet with the Chior Director?
That would be the smoking section please!!
To me, it’s simple. Reconcile Matthew 19:5 to homosexuality and I’ll give parity to the gay community from a biblical standpoint. Until then, not so much. It’s interesting how the gay community loves to state that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality when it is clear that in Matthew 19:5 He does by reaffirming His love of His creation of Hererosexuality. Until such a reconciliation with Matthew 19:5, I’ll just follow another of Jesus’ teachings regarding my gay brethren, to love my neighbor as myself.
Mr. Anthony, everything you think you know about the Bible is wrong. Sit down, close your mouth, open your eyes, your ears and your heart and learn. It’ll take you about 10 years of faithful attendance (hearing and hearing) before you even begin to get a grasp on the whole truth of the Bible.
This is the point in your Christian walk where the Bible suggests remaining silent and perceived wise.
Come back in 10 years and we can talk.
Right. He needs to shut up and swallow the dogma; hook , line, and sinker, like any good gullible Christian should. Don’t question, just believe what you ate told and all will be well.
If yhe church tells you not to engage in certain sex acts with your wife or significant other, obey them. Once you allow church or government to tell you who or how to love, you have, in effect , ceded control of your life and what passes for a mind to them and granted them immeasurable power and control over you and your life.
No, anonymous dullard. I said sit down, shut up and LEARN. But I know, learning is so out of fashion these days. You’re ignorant and proud. That’s unfortunate.
Yes, but not from you. As best I can tell from reading your comments every now and then you know little or nothing about the teachings of Christ. You certainly ignore large segments of the teachings of the New Testament. If Mr. Anthony needs to be schooled, maybe you and he could go together.
Mr. Anthony,
You stand up for what you believe and so will I. But please do not go back to Church if your beliefs are different and that is the reason. Go to Church to seek the truth. I can pick items out of the Bible and put them together to say what I think. The reason for going to Church is to Worship God,seek his guidance and be forgiven of your sins.
There are many reasons without the bible to show Homosexuality is a sin. Ask children or even some grown folks who have been molested. I know you will wish to say that a pedophile and Homosexual are different. Maybe they are but I have known two Homosexuals who ended up living with men or women and they molested Children.
Men have a God-given responsibility to be men. That’s why God made them men. Women have a God-given responsibility to be women. That’s why God made them women. Part of being a man is mating with a woman, and vice versa. That is the real reason why homosexuality is wrong. It goes against what God intended.
Salma Hayek? 2005 called, they want their babes back.
…the Antioch Church
Does one of your co-congregants frequent the Dew Drop Inn, have green teeth, follow John Birch and have no garage, perchance?
Try taking a look at Christianity as represented by Yale, Harvard, and Princeton seminaries. Of course, of you create a straw man of entry level Christianity to argue with you will look better.
Gender Derangement Disorder uber alles.
“Pertness and ignorance will ask in three lines, a question that may take thirty pages of learning and ingenuity to answer. And when this is done, the SAME QUESTION shall triumphantly be asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written on the subject.”-Bishop Horne, 1830.
He pages through the Bible and with less respect than he would any other ancient text he takes the two passages in the Old Testament that deal with homosexuality and ignores their historical context. Even some gay activists realize that it is disrespectful to judge an ancient culture by modern standards, which might even be called “racist.” but is certainly intolerant.
As to homosexuality, the full context is what is laid out in Genesis and which is referred to in Matthew 19 in the New Testament, which is that God made “man” male and female, the female from “the side” of the male, which is to recall that old saw,” His better half.” Or that old legal phrase, “man embraces” woman.
Homosexuality –especially male homosexuality, which WAS punishable by dead–is not compatible with this. Nor is it compatible with that late development of judeo-Christian morality, monogamy. Nor is it compatible with something even more fundamental, which is aniconic monotheism. Their loyalty to a one nonsexual, spiritual god, more than anything else, distinguished the Israelites from their neighbors, even that related to them by common descent from Abraham. Male and female temple prostitutes were as much a feature of the worship of the competing gods, such as a Baal and Astarte. Very different was the worship of the God of Abraham and Issac and Jacob, which was asexual.
All of which one ought to keep in mind when reading What Paul says about sodomy as well as OTHER immoral practices. Like them they are given as examples of what we do when we lose our reason forget that we are creatures of the One God. Long before modern psychologists classified homosexuality as a mental illness, the Bible saw sodomy as a kind of illness of the soul, caused by a disconnect with God.
What I think is so tragically ironic is while this guy claims that Christians are making the Bible say what it really doesn’t say(though Christian have been saying those things for about 2000 years)…it is the gay/lesbian activists who are saying what science can never say. Science says it will always take sperm and an egg to make a baby. Two eggs won’t and two sperms won’t do it. The activists have constructed this mental construct not shared by 97 per cent of the world’s population which flies in the face of scientific logic! Now forget the religion for a second and just look at the science that actually points to the flaws of a gay or lesbian life style. The higher rates of std’s . Higher rates of depression, suicide, partner physical abuse, lack of large numbers of monogamous partners despite the so called movements to recognize gay marriage with the noted high rates of promiscuity with multiple partners. In 1973, the political shenanigans at the APA caused the psychological organization to drop homosexuality as a recognized mental pathological disorder, though the biological science has shown in multiple studies since 73 the absolute validity of the previous designation as “being disordered”! Even a die hard atheist who denies the validity of revealed religion cannot, if he is honest in dealing with the data, deny what the physical science has to say. Hetero sexual monogamous relationships arethe most stable and the couples can experience the longest life spans. Homosexuals and Lesbians exhibit other destructive mental aberrant behaviors statistically and their lifespans are cut short by disease, drug and etoh abuse, and suicide.
Oh, the Gays have great PR. So did the fascist NAZI’s. The co-ercive movements of the Gay groups most resemble fascist bullying and manipulations of the media in most respects. Their greatest weapon that Christians heretofore have been unable to counter is their use and abuse of the term “love”, crossconnecting that with the terms of “tolerance” . “Oh you think being gay is a sin…how unloving and “nonchristian of you”is often how the attack starts, then the poor hapless Christian finds himself on trial for the entire supposed sins of the church!
Now it is has become “racist and discriminatory” to state a distaste and apprehension of the gay lifestyle; again a co-opting of the valid civil rights movements. You see, Gays knowinstinctively they really have no internalized moral structure that can validate their existence as human beings. Theirs is a narcissist mental deformity that demands fawning worship as compensation for their lack of internal self reinforcement.
They are empty shells with no root in themselves, they are self proclaimed emperors who wear no clothes. No matter what society will do to appease and try to allow for some social”room” for their psychological need to be fawned, pitied, and worshiped upon, as well as their increasing demands upon our time and treasure to help them with their various mental and physical ailments that their own mental illness brought upon themselves, it will never be enough! A tipping point will soon be reached between rational folks and these spiritual vacuoles of society and an ensuing harsh backlash will commence. The complexion of society will change, but not for the betterment of the Gays!
“The Bible does say homosexual behavior is a sin. But the Bible also says a lot of other things that the Antioch Church, its pastor and the vast majority of Christians ignore”..The old deflection, red herring nonsense from some Bible hating Atheist, how unique! Move along!
Surely if Homosexuality was a sin, God would have sent a plague of some sort to wipe them out.
Oh….wait.
Dear Les,
The foundational document of the Christian religion is the Bible. I know the Bible says many things that are unpopular and counter to cultural/progressive trends. In the face of that, it’s difficult to accept a God who’s requirements may beg us to change things in our own lives that seem right to us. So we have a choice to make: we can accept Christianity based on its foundational book and traditions; or, we can dispense with those, and begin the process of redefining God into something that is more acceptable to our own desires and preferences. The problem is that when we choose the latter, we are no longer practicing Christianity, we are practicing idolatry and asking God to serve us. IMHO, that is a house built on sand.
God bless you and I truly hope you continue to question your beliefs and that eventually you will come to the truth and it will set you free.
Mr. Anthony, you are going to be truly lambasted for this article. But not really for the reason you think. You see, you are taking a pot shot at of the few pieces of low hanging fruit. Many Christians, especially evangelical conservative Christians who pride themselves on how often they attend Sunday service and not baking cakes for gay people, ignore so much of the teachings of Christ, they need the low hanging fruit to maintain their self-delusion of moral superiority.
They believe that if they yell loud enough about the evils of homosexuality and abortion, god will overlook the fact they totally ignore the vast majority of the Christ’s teachings as to the obligations of a Christian. They have so twisted Christian teachings to fit their lifestyle, Christ would not even recognize the religion.
In other words, I go to church on Sunday, I think gays and abortion are evil, I pray, that is enough to get me into heaven.
As for the rest of the time get out of the way while I run down that dirty lazy beggar in my new car, and turn off that show about starving kids in Africa, Its a downer, I will be in town this weekend, do you want to meet me for brunch and golf at the club after church? Mary and the kids are spending the week at our beach house. Jesus, I bet this N***** in front of me in the check out line is on food stamps.
So when these people criticize you, just think, What did that person do today besides maybe sit in a pew and ask forgiveness for all the things Christ told him to do, but he chose not to, because they were too hard.
.
Mary,
Your’s are the whimpers of the soulless, The ramblings of the lost.
Chris
You could have knocked it out of the park with the cultural slurs the Republicans are using against Muslims concerning pork, while not mentioning Judaism or Christian bibles contain the same restrictions…. claimed “wrong” by Jesus.
So, why do these churches have to change their standards? Why don’t you just go to a church that does not preach against homosexuality? There are plenty of churches out there, and they do not all have the same teachings. Just pick another one.
Len Anthony got a bully pulpit from Will Folks and actually
thinks he’s doing real well
And he was in fact until the God he rejected did what He
said and sent Len straight to… !!!
“… every word of the Bible is not the word of God and adhering to those teachings was wrong. ” This is very correct. This has happened in every book of all religions. People should be careful in believing Bible and other holy books.
Veda is written by yogis with divine vision. But now people in India do not even know who yogis are, what divine vision is. As a result all interpretations of Vedas have gone completely wrong. People even do not know Vedas. Non-yogis have taken over religions.
This is how the religions are destroying itself. People are moving out and becoming frustrated, lost, and misguided. Some are following faith without know what faith is. https://theoryofsouls.wordpress.com/