PEACH STATE ENVIRONMENTALISTS RALLY AGAINST PROJECT …
|| By FITSNEWS || Turns out we were right about the big “enviro freakout” in response to a proposed “Palmetto pipeline.” We just had the wrong state.
So far it’s looking like environmentalists in Georgia – not South Carolina – are the ones most livid over the 360-mile underground gasoline and diesel fuel pipeline proposed by Texas-based energy infrastructure provider Kinder Morgan.
“Building another pipeline is a risk to our drinking water, our wildlife and environment, our people and our property,” a post on the Savannah Riverkeeper website noted. “In the event of an accident, the damage to the watersheds of five of Georgia’s major rivers, coastal landscapes and swamps could be virtually irreparable.”
The site also calls the proposed pipeline “an affront to our property rights,” citing efforts to invoke eminent domain – or the taking of private land for (what’s supposed to be) “public use.”
There’s even a website – “Push Back the Pipeline” – rallying public opposition to the project.
“Keep your mess in Texas,” the site proclaims, inviting readers to sign a petition opposing the pipeline.
The proposed project would run from Jacksonville, Florida to a 900,000 barrel “tank farm” in Belton, S.C. The company also envisions Belton as the terminus for an expanded pipeline route running from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Roughly 200 miles of the proposed “Palmetto Pipeline” route passes through Georgia’s coastal regions – and then alongside the Savannah River.
Another 100 miles of pipeline would run through rural South Carolina.
Thirty permanent jobs are supposed to be created in conjunction with the project.
As we noted in our initial treatment of this issue, we have no problem with the pipeline – assuming eminent domain is not abused in its construction and taxpayers are not asked to subsidize the project in any way, shape or form.
“assuming eminent domain is not abused”
I’m sure that recovering alcoholic is only ordering ice water at the bar.
Having a little familiarity with road and power lines, it will be welcomed and profitable to land owners if they are savvy negotiators or properly represented. Court will favor the corporation or the government on the right to take the property, but will often favor the property owner when determining a price,
“… the corporation or the government …”
Sadly, it’s fucking come to that. See history for the real reason for the Boston tea party — a corporation in league with an oppressive government to fuck over the people.
Power to da peoples, Let’s burn done the internet!!
That’s all fine and dandy, if you want to sell your land.
It’s a zero sum game… if you sell your land, someone else will just sell it down the road… maybe sell subsections… and subsections.. and subsections.. and so on, until everyone owns a hole in the ground just wide and deep enough to be buried in.. of course, the land would revert to the libertarian who “sold” it in the first place… while retaining the mineral and water rights.
Now, let’s talk about dividing up the ocean into little circles just big enough so everyone can time-share their own patch of paradise in a rented rubber inner tube.
Sounds like what the Chinese and other Asian nations are doing in the South China Sea.
If land was privatized, oil spills would be profitable… after all, the upper crust is made up of doctors and lawyers… might as well put them to work doing what they do best, snake oil and sleight of hand at 180 dollars an hour.
In you last post about this, what you actually said was that you were wholly opposed to eminent domain. Now you are spinning it as your having said only that eminent domain should “not be abused.” Which is it?
And when are you going to admit that it is hypocritical on your part to make any claim of any sort of opposition to eminent domain, when you wholeheartedly support the Keystone XL pipeline. As I showed in response to the earlier post, eminent domain has been used again and again — even if temporarily blocked at this point in Kansas — to allow a commercial interest that is NOT EVEN BASED IN THE USA to force sale of land for that ill-begotten damned pipeline.
The company doing the pipeline which is the subject of this article, further, has a known history of severe leaks/spills that have shown that the environmental watch-dogs have every reason in the world to be concerned, not just in SC, but in Georgia as well.
You know I support you when you you are right on the money about corruption in SC and elsewhere, and when you support good causes. I absolutely will not kiss your ass by pretending you are not talking out of both sides of your mouth on this issue.
Uh oh…Cat fight….LMAO….
Who will rip the other’s Speedo off first???…Hahahaha….
You took time from your latest butt-fuck and reach-around session with pogo flippy to post THAT? I guess the dew is off the rose, huh?
Nothing like a Liberal coming to a realization – as you rarely do- that your puppet-master is a corrupt liar….
It is as TRULY entertaining, as it is uncommon. Thanks for allowing me to be a witness to it.
Wait, I thought Obama was the puppet-master. Get your bullshit straight, man. I’ve been saying Obama is a corrupt liar, like forever. You and pogo have always conveniently ignored that, just as you’ve ignored the fact that Jim Clyburn opposed Gloria Tinubu and helped (along with many other Democrats with power in SC and beyond) to elect your hero, Tom Rice, to be US Rep from SC7.
Will doesn’t pull any strings for me, nor I for him. I like his posts when I like ’em, and when I don’t, I don’t. And i say so, sometimes explaining exactly why. This is such an instance.
As far as I can tell, Will has even less respect for Obama and Clinton (both of ’em) than I do.
Your blatherings, and that of your buttboy pogo, change none of that.
Save it Boz…you’re all over the road, for convenience, in an attempt to manipulate.
You – like FITS – have no core values or integrity. You are into personal-aggrandizement, and you prove that selfish attention-hogs have no credibility…
People like you – and FITS- will always suffer from getting wrapped up – and strangled – in your web of lies….
nit witness to the stars.
There is not a single road or utility line built in the last 200 years that didn’t require eminent domain. It has traditionally been used for a “public use” only. Utilities have always ben considered “public use”. Pipe lines are utilities. It only became a controversy when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of eminent domain for a purely private use of a developer. States then started enacting laws to restrict its use.
Again the XL Pipeline will not benefit Americans. It will not benefit any of the people of the states were land would be taken. It is purely so certain companies can make money on the project (Republican Donors) and Canadian companies can more easily export oil.
Dummy! How do companies make money if they don’t provide a beneficial service or product that people are willing to buy.
That oil is going to US refineries that employ American workers. It is then exported at a higher value than it was imported. This helps the US trade balance.
The US has the Alaskan pipeline across Canada.
Dummy, huh. I have other opinions of you that I will keep to myself; as I prefer not to use Repugnut tactics of attacking people to deflect from the BS position I have.
The fact that some people will be employed in a for profit enterprise is not a benefit to the public. You argument is absolutely no different than the argument a city should be allowed to take an area they consider blighted, and sell it to a developer. This is a boondoggle. One more example big corporations and the government screwing average people.
Your statement:”Again the XL Pipeline will not benefit Americans.”
Excuse me. Since most of the benefits that “WORKING” people receive is through there jobs or businesses, I only assumed they would be included. You might have a different perspective.
Now considering that XL pipeline is a private venture, its purpose is not be a benefit the public, but in fact it does. Buy replacing railroad transport it is safer to both the public and the environment.
So if that theory is valid, the government could forcibly take my land and give it to Volvo to build a plant. Right? I mean it meets all of your criteria.
Is that what Nikki has in mind?
No. Volvo can build in many different places. Transportation and Utilities don’t have that option. And technically they pay you for the land. The same methods are used for national parks, wildlife refuges and habitats for endangered species.
I know how eminent domain works, I just question your theory. Please stop lumping this with transportation. Roads are owned by the public and are available for public use.
I guess I do question your use of “utility”. I understand how the public benefits from phone, gas and power lines running to their homes or their place of business. I question however, the benefit to the public of an oil or gas company moving its product from place to place for its own profit. Exxon for example is not a utility company. Phillips Conoco is not a utility company. Kinder Morgan Energy Partners is not a utility company.
To me you have essentially eliminated there being any element of public use or direct public benefit. Maybe that is no longer a requirement, but I do not see any difference, between the pipelines and Volvo. The pipelines can go anywhere, just like Volvo can. Or the company can ship by truck. Its just a matter of higher cost to someone. Just like an alternate location of the plant. Why would I care whether Nikki took my house for a pipeline or Volvo Plant?. What is the difference to me? I will not benefit from either.
Also, I think most people feel you should not be able to force them to sell their land, except in rare circumstances. Cash is not sufficient compensation if you don’t want to sell for the current value of the property. What if I hold land I know will be going up in value in the near future, but you want to force me to sell to Exxon now. I think people understand the need for roads, parks, easements for utility lines. All are necessary for the public to have modern infrastructure, and all have a public use or benefit element to them. But forcing me to sell property just so that someone else can make more profit is wholly different in my view.
I took a university transportation course. It covered pipelines. They are regulated. Because every different company won’t be allowed to build pipelines they must allow other companies to use it. Rates are regulated. Different products are separated by bladders.
They have to be allowed to connect to other pipelines if the pipeline is appropriate for the product and capacity is available. It is very much treated like a utility.
I think you are confused. Neither the Keystone XL pipeline nor the Palmetto pipeline is a “utility.” A utility company, like SCE&G is regulated by the state. It is a controlled monopoly. It must seek approval to increase rates and the state controls how much profit it can make. The public will presumably benefit from a utility. As for a road, that is traditionally owned by the taxpayers.
The Keystone XL Pipeline and the Palmetto Pipeline will be owned by private companies. Those companies have no duty to use the pipeline for the good of the public, and the public has no say in its operation. There is absolutely no guarantee the public will benefit from these pipelines. These pipelines are purely for the profit of specific companies.
Pipeline rates are regulated. This particular link is for natural gas. The following is for oil.
FITS predicted EXTREMIST Enviro-nutjobs would freak out over a job-producing, pro-energy project that perpetuates progress for the American people…
Give FITS a Major Award….LMAO..He got one right….Hahahaha…
You [email protected]$$#$ are told over and over, you’re the best and brightest…but you some Dumb F*#ks in the real world…
Questioning pipeline construction and operations is just environmental alarmism. Except for Colonial Pipeline’s 1,000,000 gallon spill into the Reedy River, their 13,000 barrel spill into the Enoree (into which they spilled again later) and several other smaller spills. This is SC. We love the taste of diesel fuel!
If emminent domain is used even once for a private industries benefit it is abuse. But based on how the Keystone Pipeline has turned into government sponsiored theft of private lands for the oil industry, how could this go wrong either?
I sure love how libertarians shut up when one of their favorite industries proves the lie about Industry creating wealth and improving our communities on its own. This will create 30 jobs (woo hoo!!! lets cut taxes another billion) and pay virtually no taxes on its own because of the exemptions, credits and tax breaks that they have been given.
Oh, and since it will be an LLC…WHEN it has a rupture, it will declare bankruptcy and leave the mess for us to pay.
The joys of letting industry run America and have its way.
I hear that Aruba is nice this time of year.
Utilities including pipelines are considered a public use.
So explain the XL Pipeline. That was to enable Canada to export gas. No benefit to any of the states where land for the pipeline would be taken.
Of course it would heavily benefit certain Republican donors. Who will make mucho dinero on the XL pipeline..
Every land owner is paid full value for the property or its use.
So what? It still does not benefit them.
Actually it would make sense the folks along the Georgia coast would have the most concern. It would cross six major rivers that feed extensive salt marshes along their coast, impacting towns including St. Marys, Brunswick, Darien and Savannah. That doesn’t mean it cannot be built safely, but they will raise the most noise.
A little oil never hurt anyone.. it’s as American as apple pie, and never ending wars on terror…
I mean if the bombers of death in the sky don’t turn into butterflies above our nation, will anyone give a flying fuck? It’s just too much fun killing thousands to prove our constitution is better than camel dung.
It’s anti-American not to cover your pancakes in 30 weight.’
Oil – it’s the other black meat.
What could go wrong?
More than 80 people were hospitalized after inhaling noxious fumes after a pipeline failure caused some 600,000 gallons of oil to spill into a nature reserve in the desert near Eilat, a southern Israel city. The city with a population of about 50,000 people was not directly affected, however local fauna and flora was severely damaged, according to Guy Samet, the director of the southern region for the Environmental Protection Ministry. It might take years for the spill to be cleaned, and much longer for the local vegetation and wildlife to recover
The spill was caused by a breach in the 153-mile long Trans-Israel pipeline, a major oil conduit between the Mediterranean and Red seas that runs from Eilat to Ashkelon. Officials at the Eilat Ashkelon Pipeline Company claim the breach was likely due to a “maintenance failure” at a new section of the pipeline.
Did anyone note the subtle change in Will Folks’ position from his last post on this to this post.
Last post, “we are hard core opponents of eminent domain.”
This post, “As we noted in our initial treatment of this issue, we have no problem with the pipeline – assuming eminent domain is not abused.”
I would just like to point out, that this is not what you noted in your initial treatment. So what changed? The fact several people pointed out you were an total hypocrite? The fact you were paid to support the Keystone XL and then stepped into it with the eminent domain comment?
So what constitutes abuse? Lets say I live on a farm in Nebraska. My great great great grandfather carved the farm from the plains with his bare hands and mule. On the open market its not worth squat, but I would not sell you one inch for a million bucks. However, Exxon, TransCanada and Phillips Conoco, want a pipeline, and my land is in the way. Is taking my land for a few thousand bucks an abuse?
Wake up SC. Republicans will sell you out to the highest bidder.
I sure noted it. Commented about it right away, on this thread, when I read it.
Keep your eyes on this!
This will draw out the paid liars and engineering-prostitutes and and scheming Philadelphia lawyers and agency harlots and parrots (SQUAWK . . . “No Problem!” “Approved” “We HAD to give them the permits” . . . SQUAWK).
If it is like the last proposal, the Richland County taxpayers will be liable for the substandard old levees when (not if) they fail and a billion-dollar development goes underwater, New Orleans style.
Would the technically clueless management in charge of dam safety at DHEC be in charge of certifying these farmland levees? One hopes not, but who would bet against it?
This is Push Back The Pipeline coordinator KC Allan
Kinder Morgan, the pipeline builder/owner, is run by two former Enron executives one of whom (Kinder) is ranked the richest man in Houston- no mean feat. The company has 6 felony convictions stemming from 5 deaths from a subsidiary’s pipeline in Walnut Creek, CA. Huffington Post, Wall Street Journal and Forbes variously call them a “house of cards” and “Enron do-over”. For them to tell the southeast we need more petroleum product
is like waterboarders telling prisoners they’re thirsty. Don’t believe me, check it out for yourself #KinderMorganSucks #PalmettoipelineBlows