SC

Lindsey Graham Will Violate Tax Pledge

SOUTH CAROLINA “REPUBLICAN” CONFIRMS HIS TAX-AND-SPEND PHILOSOPHY U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham (RINO-S.C.) proudly announced this week that he will violate his pledge not to raise taxes on the American people. “When you’re $16 trillion in debt, the only pledge we should be making to each other is to avoid becoming…

SOUTH CAROLINA “REPUBLICAN” CONFIRMS HIS TAX-AND-SPEND PHILOSOPHY

U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham (RINO-S.C.) proudly announced this week that he will violate his pledge not to raise taxes on the American people.

“When you’re $16 trillion in debt, the only pledge we should be making to each other is to avoid becoming Greece, and Republicans — Republicans should put revenue on the table,” Graham said during his latest national television appearance.

Graham – who has previously supported energy tax hikes – later added his views regarding the the origin of America’s deficit problem.

“We don’t generate enough revenue,” he told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos.

Wait … what???

Frankly, it’s astounding that Graham would say something like that.  America’s problem isn’t that it doesn’t “generate enough revenue,” it’s that its politicians – Republican and Democrat – don’t know how to stop growing government.  That’s why over the last four years the federal government has racked up more than $5 trillion in deficit spending.  In fact Graham has been among the most vocal champions of all that new spending – particularly as it relates to former GOP nominee Mitt Romney’s plan to appropriate $2 trillion in additional military funding over the course of the next decade.

In addition to supporting new spending, Graham is also no stranger to supporting tax hikes.  In fact he’s been promoting “revenue enhancements” for some time.

Even before the discussions over the approaching “fiscal cliff,” Graham was the lone “Republican” in Congress to back President Barack Obama’s massive proposed energy tax, dubbed “cap and trade.” He also joined with Democrats in proposing a massive amnesty program for illegal immigrants.

S.C. Sen. Tom Davis – who is toying with a 2014 U.S. Senate bid – blasted Graham’s decision.

“GOP politicians vow to raise taxes – act like its patriotic,” Davis wrote on his Facebook page.  “We’re now completely through the looking-glass.”

Agreed.

Lindsey Graham and the rest of the U.S. Senators who are now going back on their word are a disgrace to taxpayers … however they are increasingly welcome in the “Republican” party.

***

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87 comments

Super Brandon November 26, 2012 at 11:43 am

Is anyone really suprised?

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Sammy November 26, 2012 at 12:01 pm

He and Haley are two of the same.

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seriously November 26, 2012 at 6:57 pm

What amazes me, who created this mess? Not the taxpayer, Congress and the whitehouse under Bush aand predominately O’Bama.
We will pay for their mistakes, and failure with our money.The sacrafices will be ours.
What are they sacraficing…nothing!
They continue to draw their full salaries, spend their pork, get their raises and piss our money away!!
We, the people, will pay and pay and pay. The royalty in Washington (who make the rules and exempt themselves) will continue to spend and waste andd look to us to pay their bills and THE WASTEFUL SPENDING AND DEBT THEY RUN UP!!!!!
We are merely the peassants toiling in the fields while they reign in the castle!

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Robert November 26, 2012 at 11:44 am

I’m no Graham fan, but to think this mess can be solved simply with spending cuts is asinine.

Spending cuts are essential, but added revenue must be there too. The trick is to add revenue without killing growth.

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Frank Pytel November 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm

BS

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Republicrats and/or Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

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tomstickler November 26, 2012 at 8:53 pm

The facts are that Reagan decreased revenue as a percent of GDP from 15.3% in 1981 down to 13.3% in 1988, then Bush I ran it further to 12.6% in 1993.

Clinton worked it back up to 15.7% by the time he left office in 2001, but Dubya cut it to 13% for FY2008, and the Great Recession resulted in 10.3% for FY2009.

It has gone up a little to 11.6% in FY2011 and is projected to reach 12.2% in FY2012.

It is clear that federal revenue as a percent of GDP is way too low. As Robert notes, the trick is not to fall into the austerity trap that the Eurozone is inflicting upon itself.

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Frank Pytel November 27, 2012 at 2:18 am

What I really dislike is those that want to quote % of this or that. Unemployment (now somewhere near 46%) is only 5,6,7,8%. BS

Reagan increased spending every year he was in office. Not many of them in the last 60 – 75 years that did not. The Demlicans and Republicrats alike are running this country into the ground. Your not going to wish it away with “fuzzy math”.

There is no “Great Recession” ladies and gentlemen. We are in the middle of the worst Depression this country has ever seen. Taxes higher than ever (Yes ever). This is not due to Obutthead. Do you really think the pittance you see coming from your paycheck (If you Occupy something besides the lawn) is what is paid in taxes.

The gubmint collects taxes at EVERY transaction. Think about what it takes to build even the simplest of products. A toy car. A wooden rocking horse. Every thing you purchase, unless you buy used (very used), has been taxed at least 8 times prior to it landing in your hands. Then you pay a tax to purchase it. Many times you pay luxury taxes on that. In the event of cars and houses the taxes never end.

frack

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Repuklicrats or Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

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Robert November 27, 2012 at 8:01 am

The point is, simple economics will tell you that if you make X, and you spend Y, Y cannot be more than X. If it is, then you have debt of Z. If you do not reduce Y and increase X, you will not pay off Z.

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Frank Pytel November 28, 2012 at 6:51 am

Robert;

That’s a very good point, but not really the answer to the relevant question. The question is more like, should we be spending on this or that? Jan likes to point out that we are all receiving services. But the fact is I don’t receive these services. I don’t recieve welfare, I don’t receive anything from the federal DOEdu, I don’t receive anything from many many many numerous levels of bureacracy.

Now, what I do receive, do I want? Hell no. The US military is the only level of federal government that should be in control of the three branches of government. The remainder is states rights. This has been radically abrogated by legislators whom have no interest in anything except getting their chance to spend our money.

Yes, I do have a few pet projects that I would like to see kept in place, but all of them can be tied to national security. Highways… Maybe that’s the only one. I’ll have to give that some thought I suppose.

Anyway, Thanks for making your point clearer, Robert.

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Republicrats and Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

conservative for obama at gmail dot com

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Smirks November 26, 2012 at 11:45 am

Screw Davis and screw anyone else following Norquist’s horseshit.

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south mauldin November 26, 2012 at 12:33 pm

+1

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not fair November 26, 2012 at 2:13 pm

+2

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marty November 26, 2012 at 2:46 pm

+3

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Old Bike Dude November 26, 2012 at 2:53 pm

+4

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SEAMUS November 26, 2012 at 4:08 pm

+5

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Peanut November 26, 2012 at 5:03 pm

“In fact Graham has been among the most vocal champions of all that new spending – particularly as it relates to former GOP nominee Mitt Romney’s plan to appropriate $2 trillion in additional military funding over the course of the next decade.”

You got that right. And Graham voted for “Bush’s War” that has been going on now for 11 years, even though there were no “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq.

Opposing political parties should always be willing to compromise to serve the people, but compromise has become a casualty of the far-right-wing republican party, especially in South Carolina, which many people consider a “banana republic” that is owned by extremists like Tom Davis who slavishly follow demagogues like Grover Norquist.

Regardless, as many have opined to me today, Graham’s decision to (reasonably) raise taxes makes him “toast.”

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dwb619 November 26, 2012 at 6:50 pm

+6

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TontoBubbaGoldstein November 26, 2012 at 10:00 pm

-7

(If thats OK to do…)

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? November 26, 2012 at 10:15 pm

lmao @ Tonto! Good one.

The one part of the discussion you will never hear about is cutting govt. That, of course, is an impossibility.

It is all about the revenue, not the cuts. Last proposal I saw bandied about raised revenue at a rate of 4-1 in cuts…lol

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? November 26, 2012 at 11:52 am

Yet another Republican for small gov’t.

:)

Seriously, how many of you GOPers are gonna try to kick the ball over and over again? lol

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toyota kawaski November 26, 2012 at 3:41 pm

take a bath you stinking Indian

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El Rushboner November 26, 2012 at 11:56 am

Who the F is Grover Norquist??

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? November 26, 2012 at 11:57 am

He’s the dude that tried to make certain politicians do what they say they would.

LMAO!

What a waste of time/energy.

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vicupstate November 26, 2012 at 12:47 pm

Norquist is someone who has never held elected office (ie governed) but thinks he knows how to govern effectively. If Norquist wants to demand adherence to his pledge, he needs to detail exactly what he would cut to balance the budget, and get that ‘pledge’ signed by the same puppets that signed the first one.

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? November 26, 2012 at 1:58 pm

“Norquist is someone who has never held elected office (ie governed) but thinks he knows how to govern effectively. ”

Oh boo hoo for those poor politicians!

You are really a moronic piece of work.

It’s really simple Vic, if you promise to do something then do it. If you don’t think it’s wise to make such a promsise then don’t do it.(even to get elected!)

$10 says you were a former pol or maybe a bureacrat. Cause’ only someone like that could consider “effective governing” to include going back on promises/lying.

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Used To Be a Republican Before I Grew Up! November 26, 2012 at 2:12 pm

Really?

He makes a good point

Why doesn’t Norquist or any Republican for that matter delineate EXACTLY what they want to cut and by how much

All I’ve seen a vague generalities concerning “social” spending and the old standby

“Waste and abuse”

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? November 26, 2012 at 2:41 pm

“Why doesn’t Norquist or any Republican for that matter delineate EXACTLY what they want to cut and by how much”

Not really, anyone that signs a “contract” without understanding it or what they are committing to is a complete and total moron…including the normally brilliant & devious Graham.

Then again, maybe he knew EXACTLY what he was doing…meaning he’s totally devoid of principle. Very Machiavellian of him.

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Smirks November 26, 2012 at 3:30 pm

Norquist’s pledge was used as a way for the GOP to tout its own horn. It’s an easy way of saying “See? We’re fighting for you!” when the reality is that they know that they can break the pledge at any point because (1) the two-party system eliminates any alternate choice in the matter if they break their promise and (2) they can only be held accountable by whatever measure of power Grover Norquist has, which is absolutely zero because his notoriety was propped up by right wing media in the first place. If you inflated the balloon it stands to reason you can pop it whenever you want.

The proof is in the pudding, more and more GOPers are kicking off the pledge. Is it being slammed as breaking oaths? Fuck no, it is being excused as “no longer following Grover Norquist,” thus they get every last drop of the bennies in signing his stupid pledge, with zero repercussions for lying out of their ass. If anything, people like Graham are the very first to throw him under the bus because it is expected of Republicans like him and because he’s pretty much nailed to his seat thanks to being an SC incumbent. This lets Rush and Hannity and friends get to fake being angry at the “RINOs” like Graham and then immediately drop it once a shitload of Republicans finally walk away from it.

Put into a three-step program:

1) Notorious RINOs who are shoe-ins for reelection break the pledge.

2) Feigned outrage by right-wing media (but not too much outrage!).

3) Norquist is sidelined in the media faster than you can remember his name and enough Republicans immediately and quietly scrap the pledge for it to practically cease to exist.

Republicans don’t give a shit about raising taxes, they just don’t want to raise it on the people who fund their campaigns. Look at various plans Paul Ryan pushed for in Congress. Look at Romney’s plan. They all include vast cuts for the rich and unexplained ways of making it “deficit neutral,” which means either we are paying the difference via tax hikes on the middle class or government borrows the difference (i.e. we are paying the difference and then some over the next few decades).

Norquist is a tool and was being used as such. Anyone who can’t see it took the bait hook, line, and sinker. But hey, Norquist wants to be a tool, it will likely make him stinking rich. Besides that, I highly doubt Norquist actually cares if taxes go up, just as long as it isn’t his taxes (or if it is his, just as long as they go up after he’s made his fortune and retired).

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Frank Pytel November 27, 2012 at 2:48 am

vicupstate

“Norquist is someone who has never held elected office (ie governed) but thinks he knows …..” blah blah blah blah fracking blah blah.!!

I don’t know what nickelworst would cut, but I sure as hell know exactly what I would cut at the federal level. EVERY SINGLE PENNY FROM EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM IN EXISTANCE, specifically excluding only the military. Then I’d repeal 60 years worth of libtard legislation. Possibly more. I know SSA would definitely be gone FIRST, FIRST, FIRST.

I must firmly agree with Smirks on this one. All this TP, nickelworst, GOP BS is just another way for them to say “See, I’m not a libtard. I’m a conservative.” BS. They trot out the Conservative word during election cycles and then put those that are back in the closet when their done.

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Repuklicrats or Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

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BILL SHERMAN November 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm

The only logical solution left is to raise taxes when no one cares to cut spending.I am a long time Democrat and this is what we do raise taxes and cut military spending

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Fivepercenter November 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm

Perhaps the sun is setting on Grover Norquist and the Club for Growth types. I know Fox, Rush and Glenn are still churning out the “facts” but the grown-ups need a little time to fix the economy.
And Tom Davis is simply happy to get a shot in at LG, in preparation for his big move in 2014. Yawn.

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Frank Pytel November 26, 2012 at 12:07 pm

Why is this news? What did we not know already?

BFD. To paraphrase ‘Give me news, or give me new TATA’s’!!

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Republicrats and/or Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

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Frank Pytel November 26, 2012 at 12:09 pm

Could that little boy lover put his nose any higher in the air?

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Republicrats and/or Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

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toyota kawaski November 26, 2012 at 3:44 pm

he is avoding smelling your stinking Indian azz

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cunning cat November 26, 2012 at 12:46 pm

Face it, Obama won. He campaigned on raising taxes(revenue). Our Senators and Reps must deal with the hand they were dealt. Tom Davis spouts a good game but is probably the least effective of all 46 Senators. When we handicap our congressional delegation we only stand to lose.

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Mr. Dixie November 26, 2012 at 12:56 pm

With that look on Lindsey’s face – I believe someone in that room must have farted.

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Darlington Dave November 27, 2012 at 12:04 am

Joe Wilson probably has his nose or some other appendage up his ass.

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BradWarthenSucks November 26, 2012 at 1:16 pm

He probably just got out of a close door meeting with Barney Frank.

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toyota kawaski November 26, 2012 at 3:45 pm

takes one top know one hey Brad

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BradWarthenSucks November 26, 2012 at 5:36 pm

Wouldn’t know, why don’t you ask your old man.

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Todd November 26, 2012 at 1:18 pm

He’s so gay.

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Droze November 26, 2012 at 7:16 pm

He and McConnell.

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bogart November 26, 2012 at 1:45 pm

Why would these politicians think a pledge they made to a lobbyist is more important than the pledge they took with their Oath of Office?????….The rich just get richer paying a 15% tax rate while the middle class keep falling by the wayside paying double that and more.Let Thurston Howell buy on less case of Christal Champagne a year and Mrs Howell one less Louis Vuitton bag.

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dwb619 November 26, 2012 at 6:52 pm

+1

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Common Sense November 26, 2012 at 8:12 pm

+2

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Crooner November 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm

What is patriotism if not sacrificing for your country? What is noble about not paying your debts?

Remember this old song:

Freedom isn’t free… You’ve got to pay the price, you’ve got to sacrifice, for your liberty

In this day and age of an all-volunteer force this must mean something other than fighting in battle for Uncle Sam.

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Say What? November 26, 2012 at 2:04 pm

It is time for Will and the rest of the tea party to understand you got the crap beat out of you in the national elections. That also goes for all super conservative republicans. Here is the deal. You lost the last two times around and the demographics show that it will continue to get worse for super conservative republicans. Beating up those like Graham is not going to help your cause and will only continue to marginalized this group, making them less and less important.

While this group might make some gains within the state, on a national level it goes nowhere. If we send these folks to Washington, we will continue be viewed as backwards. The bottom line is that at this point in time we are viewed negatively by a growing majority of voters through out the nation.

As for Davis, I am convinced that he knew what his college buddy Sanford was up to when he was running around on his wife. Davis is just another carpetbagger like Mark. That will hurt Davis in a statewide race.

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Waffle in the House November 27, 2012 at 12:12 am

Cant someone beat the crap out of Joe Wilson on Republican Ticket? He’s an IDIOT. All of you in 2nd District wake up–you will have a choice in 2014. The people have realized he is a worthless POS and does NOTHING in DC.

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? November 26, 2012 at 2:06 pm

“What is noble about not paying your debts?”

I’d agree if they were “your” debts. If it’s a bunch of people voting to take your money and it’s still not enough to pay the bills well then you could reasonably make a case that it’s a debt you didn’t create…in which case it is reasonable to “default”.

I hope our future generations do just that…it’s not fair to force younger generations to pay for the mistakes of the older ones.

“Freedom isn’t free… You’ve got to pay the price, you’ve got to sacrifice, for your liberty”

So can we put you as a Democrat on the record for supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan “for our freedoms” as you put it. Or our you saying we just need the stepped up drone strike program that the Black Jesus is using?

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Crooner November 27, 2012 at 5:11 pm

?

They took your money and spent it on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Old Bike Dude November 26, 2012 at 3:01 pm

Tom Davis loves him some F-35. Tom Davis loves him some deficit spending in his district. Tom Davis loves him some deficit spending in his state. And Tom really loves him some Ron Paul since loving him is like loving Santa. Nobody in their right mind believes in him but they tolerate those who do. Tom won’t tell you that Papa Paul’s home state is #2 in total federal spending, #1 in total federal wages and salaries, and has over 2.5 million families who file EIC forms that brings in another 6.5 billion federal dollars. 2.5 million families who work shit jobs for shit pay. Kinda like SC.

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Stephan November 26, 2012 at 4:53 pm

Wait – aren’t we talking about increasing taxes on those making over $250K? You all live in SC for crying out loud. Unless your a Charleston trial lawyer or a SC bureaucrat in Columbia – it’s not likely you’re impacted.

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? November 26, 2012 at 5:55 pm

No actually, it is just a talking/propaganda point.

The dirty secret is that taxes are going up on everyone…but especially the middle class. The super rich will avoid them as usual and the smug working class Dems that railed so hard for it will get hit the hardest. (and that is not a defense for GOPers)

economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/11/neocon-speaks-truth-one-tax-that-is.html

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dwb619 November 26, 2012 at 6:53 pm

+100!

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TontoBubbaGoldstein November 26, 2012 at 10:14 pm

*Dr Evil voice*

“Plus one meeellion.”

(Skeet! Skeet! SKEET! It’s ON now, Jack!!)

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EJB November 26, 2012 at 5:58 pm

I’m not particularly concerned about the “Rich” but one thing I do know, people are like electricity, they follow the path of least resistance. It has been proven repeatedly that raising taxes lowers revenues, period. Maryland tried using a millionaires tax and instead of increasing revenues $250M the revenues declined $150M, roughly $400M difference from projections. Projected increases in revenues always are based on prior capital behaviors, yet when the laws are passed everybody starts changing what they do. When hiding their money is easier than paying taxes that’s what they will do, and legally, they always put exemptions in every tax law they pass. They are millionaires, right, the lawmakers?

All these new regulations in the financial serves industry are choking businesses, all the new regulations with ObamaCare and the new credit card bureaucracy add so much uncertainty that businesses don’t know which way to turn let alone where to invest the capital they have. It’s been stated that American companies are sitting on $2 trillion in cash. I read in Forbes that Yahoo (or maybe Google) has $100B in cash sitting there but borrowed $10B for acquisitions. Why? Because it is basically free money. This administration has business so screwed up they don’t know what to do so they do nothing. That includes no jobs, no tax revenues no nothing.

Revenues would grow with the economy if the government would just let business do what business does, let the capital work. There will never be enough tax money, ever. When they get these new taxes (and they will) the economy will not improve so they will tax something else. Higher rates newer things to tax, hey the internet. When will people wake up, when they tax your IRA or 401(k) – its coming. They never get enough, stop them now or wish you had, it only gets worse.

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Nurse Mildred Ratched November 26, 2012 at 7:02 pm

You get 36 hours, unescorted, past the front gates. Keep up the intelligent thinking and you will all be released from the asylum – and then I can retire!

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Used To Be a Republican Before I Grew Up! November 26, 2012 at 7:40 pm

Good ol Supply Side economics

As Silly now as the day Arthur Laffer outlined it on a napkin back in the seventies

Funny that people still take it seriously

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? November 26, 2012 at 10:12 pm

*As Silly now as the day Arthur Laffer outlined it on a napkin back in the seventies*

No more silly then attributing economic swings to *animal spirits* or letting everyone know not to worry about the future in economics because *In the long run we are all dead.*

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This just in. . . November 26, 2012 at 6:58 pm

“Please Stop Talking About the Fiscal Cliff”

TOLEDO (The Borowitz Report) — An Ohio man’s fascination with the so-called “fiscal cliff” — and his steadfast refusal to talk about anything else — has alienated everyone close to him, former friends of the man say.

Harland Dorrinson, a forty-one-year-old carpet-tile salesman and self-described “fiscal-cliff nut” has turned himself into a pariah with his inexplicable interest in the most tedious conversation topic ever.

“We were all like, ‘Harland, every time you talk about this, people start to lose consciousness,’” says Carol Foyler, a former friend who has cut ties with Mr. Dorrinson over his fiscal-cliff obsession. “I don’t know what effect the fiscal cliff will have in January, but if you’re stuck in a conversation with Harland the effect is you want to drown yourself.”

For his part, Mr. Dorrinson says that his ex-friends who have shown no interest in the fiscal cliff “are a bunch of losers who don’t know what they’re missing.”

“I guess there are people out there who aren’t interested in whether capital-gains taxes and marginal rates will rise, or which Republicans have backed away from Grover Norquist’s anti-tax pledge,” he says. “But seriously, would you want to be friends with someone like that? Or, for that matter, married to one?”

If Mr. Dorrinson has a regret, it is that the fiscal-cliff issue will be resolved one way or the other by the end of the year: “I know I’m going to experience a profound feeling of loss when it’s gone. There hasn’t been anything this fascinating since the debt-ceiling debate.”

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Roscoe November 26, 2012 at 7:19 pm

I am not for raising taxes if it will cost jobs but these folks aer being killed for not talking about it. I am retired and raising these taxes will only affect mostly the poor and they are the ones that voted for the Democrats and Obama. Let them raise them and bring the recession back and then if these illiterates do not catch on so be it.

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Used To Be a Republican Before I Grew Up! November 26, 2012 at 7:42 pm

Worried about the poor ol multi millionaires eh?

Don’t worry

Theyll survive

Instead of making it on five million or so

They’ll have to live on four and a half

Somehow they will

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Frank Pytel November 27, 2012 at 2:54 am

I got news for you Used to be. We will all be millionaires very soon. You’ll need about a million bucks to buy a bag of beans.

Have a Great Day!! :) There won’t be many left with the Repuklicrats or Demlicans in charge.

Frank Pytel

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Roscoe November 26, 2012 at 7:55 pm

People like you are the problem. All you can see is Democrat or Republican. It doesn’t matter what they stand for or believe. You do not sound grown up.

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Used To Be a Republican Before I Grew Up! November 26, 2012 at 11:02 pm

Oh quit your bitching'”grown up”

Tell us bout that “supply side economics”

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TontoBubbaGoldstein November 26, 2012 at 10:07 pm

Caption:

Lindsey Graham: Read my lisp! No new taxes!

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Marty November 26, 2012 at 10:57 pm

No. 2 fag in DC after Barney Frank is from SC. Who would ever believed it?

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Ozzie November 27, 2012 at 12:41 am

Most fags keep their figures, chunky Frank and Graham — exceptions. Andre Bauer, Anderson Cooper, Tommy Tune, Ricky Martin — more conventional trim fags. That’s what Harriet sez.

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EJB November 27, 2012 at 7:13 am

Oh, I’m not worried about the millionaires, you are right they will take care of themselves, which is the point. Their behavior, in tax avoidance, will profoundly affect the rest of us and in trying to tax them to death we will kill the goose that laid the golden egg which will force the DC crowd to raise OUR (non millionaires) taxes. My life will be a little tougher, I have a good skill set and even if I lose my job I will find another even if I have to move or get a job that involves traveling, many others won’t be so lucky and they will suffer.

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Something I don't get November 27, 2012 at 10:10 am

Lindsay isn’t even raising taxes from what the law actually is. Let’s say taxes now are at at level “A”. As of January 1 they are going to be at level “C”. So if Congress compromises at level “B” (in between the two), then that is actually a tax cut from what the law actually is.

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EJB November 27, 2012 at 10:58 am

I have known Democrats that make that distinction because they don’t know how to counter the argument, that argument is splitting hairs and fine hairs at that. Taxes will still go up. Raising taxes on “millionaires and billionaires” will influence their capital management behavior and retard the economy which means fewer jobs and likely a recession.

Maybe this will help, if you hunt deer hard on Bob’s farm what is likely to happen with the deer? At first you will get a couple and then they will be very scarce, they leave Bob’s farm when they feel the hunting pressure. Some deer will leave the area completely some will go nocturnal but hunting success will be very limited. Tax the “millionaires and billionaires” and they will behave much like the deer. Some will leave, some will change there investments so the capital is hiding instead of working. Hunt the deer too hard and they become extinct. I do not worry about “millionaires and billionaires” but their behavior will affect everyone, even the unemployed.

We have fewer people working now than there were working in January 2009, whoever’s fault that is, and more coming of working age every day (much larger potential workforce today). Workforce participation is at an all-time low. When there are a relative few unemployed there are more resources with which to help them (including charities). When there are a great many and increasing numbers of them the resources are soon depleted. These taxes increases will make things worse.

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Lance Riprock November 27, 2012 at 11:51 am

EJB, Warren Buffett you ain’t. The Oracle of Omaha says that the rich and ultra-rich constantly look to invest. That’s the obvious thing to do unless you want to see your fortune wither away.

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EJB November 27, 2012 at 12:24 pm

I would suggest reading Forbes magazine, and other business magazines, and the Wall Street Journal. There are numerous articles by lawyers, financial consultants and accountants about investing strategies to avoid taxes. Most corporations are very particular about tax liabilities when they target companies for mergers and acquisitions. There is no way Buffett will ever convince me his company doesn’t take into account tax liabilities in their decision making. He is on board with the tax hikes because he knows he will never have to pay them and if he didn’t have a problem with paying the higher taxes he would fire all his lawyers, do the 1040EZ and pay the higher taxes and save the untold millions he pays those lawyers. No, taxes play a very important part in business matters and personal finance matters for wealthy people, even the one guy from Facebook renounced his US citizenship and moved to England (I believe) to avoid paying the ridiculous US and California taxes that were going to be required after Facebook went public. You don’t have to scare all of them, a relatively small number leave or change and the tower tilts and eventually falls. Remember, these people pay a disproportionate amount of the total revenues collected. You think sending all the illegal Mexicans back will have a negative impact on the US, just lose 10% of those people and the fan gets really dirt real fast.

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TontoBubbaGoldstein November 27, 2012 at 12:46 pm

Start with the concept that everything ( you, your money, your assets, the environment, oil, gas, real estate etc.) is owned by the government. This is the crux of the leftist/progressive word view. To them (ignoring Arthur Laffer, to make a point.) the difference between whatever the current tax rate and a 100% tax rateis “unrealized revenue.” If the State chooses, it can grant you “rights”, but it can also take them away. Same with money or property
.
Don’t believe me? Try not paying property taxes.

Don’t think they own you? Get with a group of like minded individuals and try to secede. How did that work out for Jeff Davis et al?

Capiche?

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EJB November 27, 2012 at 12:51 pm

Just read a column by Lawrence Kudlow and in that column he states that Obama’s tax increases are “supposed” to generate $1.6 trillion in revenue over ten years. Sounds like a large number but it is only $160 billion a year. Our deficit, just the deficit, was $1.2 trillion last year, just one year. These tax hikes are only 13.3% of the deficit. The Democrats are only proposing $50 billion in spending cuts for the year.

Here is a quote from the column that shows businesses do worry about taxes, despite what Mr. Buffett says.

“over 100 large companies have declared special dividends to beat a year-end tax hike”

Here’s a link to the column if anyone would like to read it.

http://www.creators.com/conservative/lawrence-kudlow.html

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? November 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm

@ Lance Riprock

Your comments on crony capitalist Buffett are well timed, the NYT’s just destroyed the very comments you referenced today:

economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/11/warren-buffett-totally-destroyed-on-his.html

There was a point in time where Buffett wasn’t a crony capitalist, that time is long gone. Not only that, his rhetoric doesn’t match his actions. He’s simply manipulating the little people for his buddies.

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Junga November 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm

They’re not looking at killing Bob’s deer.
They want to take some of the excess of Bob’s corn from one of his many silos. Take it to the market and sell the corn to pay the bank for the note on the land. BECAUSE THE DEER DON’T OWN THE F-ING PROPERTY!!!! Stupid ass!

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EJB November 27, 2012 at 4:02 pm

I don’t see how hollowing out one analogy and filling it with incoherent babble and crude language advances the discussion but I guess you had to prove you had nothing worth saying in some fashion.

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The Fonz November 27, 2012 at 5:02 pm

Well it doesn’t seem you know how a farm works. Or the economy for that matter.

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Something I don't get November 28, 2012 at 1:21 pm

Might be too late for EJB to see, but that was not my point. My point was simply that a negotiation will most certainly be a tax DECREASE from what current tax law has in store for 2013. If you want to blame someone, blame W. Bush for not going for a less agressive, but permanent cut.

It would take a tretise to address YOUR point, but suffice it to say my opinion is that our current fiscal policy is more dangerous than raising revenue (back to historical norms) and cutting spending (back to historical norms) would be.

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The Fonz November 27, 2012 at 1:13 pm

Do the math.
Even the most conservative Republican budget has spending at 19 to 20% of GDP .
Our current revenue is just under 16% of GDP. The lowest since 1952 by the way.
It is not realistic to think you can close that gap by solely growing the economy.
Supply side economics have never proven to work. Except to grow deficits.
These are facts proven by math and history.
You people need to get your heads out of your ass and face reality.

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Roscoe November 27, 2012 at 1:33 pm

You folks are not thinking. The Democrats are willing to go over the cliff because they really wish to raise everyone’s taxes and I am not to sure the Republicans do not feel the same.

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? November 27, 2012 at 2:00 pm

The Republicans do feel the same, it is just few of them will say it. It’s all about the revenue/power. They aren’t for limt’d gov’t, they are for “their” style of gov’t.

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Roscoe November 27, 2012 at 1:42 pm

Just look at what LBJ’s Great Society has accomplished.

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The Fonz November 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm

Throw in GWB’s great fiasco while your at it!

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Roscoe November 27, 2012 at 2:08 pm

LBJ’s dead so the only reason Libs don’t want to hang Bust is then they would not have anyone to complain about. Though I do agree with you about the Compassionate Conservative.

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Sailor November 27, 2012 at 8:47 pm

This is fucking unbelievable! Over 80 comments and Big T(urd) hasn’t weighed in to tell us all how it should work and to call Oboma, Fits and the rest of us dumasses. Maybe his head finally exploded (I know, I know, wishful thinking).

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