SC

Demand Your Handout!

Boeing got one … so should you. We’re referring, of course, to capital loans based on the number of employees that you think you might be able to create if the state of South Carolina were to build you a brand spanking new facility. In fact there’s a specific dollar…

Boeing got one … so should you.

We’re referring, of course, to capital loans based on the number of employees that you think you might be able to create if the state of South Carolina were to build you a brand spanking new facility.

In fact there’s a specific dollar amount you should keep in mind in this process – $120,000. That’s the cost per job of the latest $120 million taxpayer-funded incentive being offered to the Chicago-based aircraft manufacturer Boeing – legislation which is rushing at breakneck speed through the S.C. General Assembly.

How did we arrive at that figure? Well, Boeing claims it’s bringing 2,000 new jobs to North Charleston, S.C. over the next eight years – but only 1,000 of those positions are associated with the specific capital expansion South Carolina taxpayers are subsidizing (remember, we’ve already given the company $900 million in incentives). So we’re dividing $120 million by 1,000 – coming up with $120,000.

Well … assuming our public school math is accurate.

Anyway … we’ll be submitting a letter this week to S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley, Senate finance committee chairman Hugh Leatherman and S.C. House Speaker Bobby Harrell requesting our handout. Specifically we’ll be seeking $1.2 million to purchase a new downtown Columbia, S.C. headquarters for FITSNews.com – pledging to create 10 jobs over the next eight years.

You should do the same thing …

Seriously, get your pen out and tell our state’s leaders how much money you need to create jobs in your neck of the woods – because clearly they are in a giving mood. Well, if you’re Boeing – a multinational company lining politicians’ pockets with campaign contributions. On the other hand if you’re a small businessman … or a poor school child in rural South Carolina, your luck isn’t so good.

Anyway, it’s worth a shot right?

Here’s the sad reality in South Carolina. These incentives may create jobs, but they also kill jobs by shifting (and raising) the tax burden on our state’s real job creators – the small businesses and individual taxpayers who power our consumer economy.

***

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44 comments

realistic April 12, 2013 at 4:38 pm

Do you have a proven record of creating jobs and being profitable? Do you have a location where we can invest in the infrastructure and reinvest in South Carolina? What will be the salary of these 10 jobs that you propose to create and how will that put money back into the economy of the state? Bring it on – I am ready for a good solid investment with a proven track record.

Reply
? April 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm

The irony of your statement is that the tax money being taken from small businesses all do….that’s why that had to pay SC state taxes(which now SC is giving to Boeing) because of their success.

And now their reward for success is their money being given to Boeing.

Reply
Jan April 12, 2013 at 7:26 pm

I agree.

Reply
smargolis April 13, 2013 at 3:11 pm

I am a small business man who employees 15 individuals dealing with Software. I pay what I believe are huge amounts of taxes both at the Federal and State level and frankly I have no problems with these incentives. I realize this is a good move for the economy of South Carolina and in turn can benefit my business. Not only will it benefit my business but it will generate tax stream revenues for decades to come off setting this investment by a landslide.

Reply
? April 14, 2013 at 7:10 pm

So what kind of software are you dealing with?

Reply
realistic April 12, 2013 at 4:38 pm

Do you have a proven record of creating jobs and being profitable? Do you have a location where we can invest in the infrastructure and reinvest in South Carolina? What will be the salary of these 10 jobs that you propose to create and how will that put money back into the economy of the state? Bring it on – I am ready for a good solid investment with a proven track record.

Reply
? April 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm

The irony of your statement is that the tax money being taken from small businesses all do….that’s why that had to pay SC state taxes(which now SC is giving to Boeing) because of their success.

And now their reward for success is their money being given to Boeing.

Reply
Jan April 12, 2013 at 7:26 pm

I agree.

Reply
smargolis April 13, 2013 at 3:11 pm

I am a small business man who employees 15 individuals dealing with Software. I pay what I believe are huge amounts of taxes both at the Federal and State level and frankly I have no problems with these incentives. I realize this is a good move for the economy of South Carolina and in turn can benefit my business. Not only will it benefit my business but it will generate tax stream revenues for decades to come off setting this investment by a landslide.

Reply
? April 14, 2013 at 7:10 pm

So what kind of software are you dealing with?

Reply
Smirks April 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm

They will be high-paying, high-skilled jobs that could help in the economic development of SC. Sorry, it is a step in the right direction. How great has it been since BMW came here?

I don’t like the idea of these kinds of handouts but SC has little other recourse. Beggars can’t be choosers, and considering the state of things here, we are most definitely beggars.

Reply
Smirks April 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm

They will be high-paying, high-skilled jobs that could help in the economic development of SC. Sorry, it is a step in the right direction. How great has it been since BMW came here?

I don’t like the idea of these kinds of handouts but SC has little other recourse. Beggars can’t be choosers, and considering the state of things here, we are most definitely beggars.

Reply
BeaufortTiger April 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Not all incentives are created equal, FITS. A game-changing company or industry has the potential for a lot of off-shoot industries and collaborations with higher education.

BMW’s move to the Upstate 20 years ago totally re-shaped Greenville and got it out of its post-textile funk. What’s to say Boeing couldn’t have the same effect in Charleston?

While I agree incentives are generally a bad idea (particularly in cases like Amazon or the outdoor retailer which will have mostly crappy, low-paying jobs), there are some exceptions to the rule. Boeing is a major player.

Reply
L i'll be April 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm

Greenville was not rebuilt by bmw, but by 1 billion in stimulus money over past 10 years courtesy of ‘conservative’ DeMint…..money that was intended for the small rural areas Will is trying to talk everyone else into applying for in this little article…..oh my bad, he is trying to be funny………..If someone wants the money intended for SC but always ending up in Greenville, write me i will help you apply……….

Reply
Trout r limited April 13, 2013 at 8:45 am

The number that gets lost in the scheme is the number of transplants “with relevant experience” that consume many of these jobs. So, create 500 jobs but give 250 to people who re-locate from Seattle then only 250 lucky residents benefit. It happened at BMW. The only filter was having any affiliation with the UAW. A couple of law firms made bank researching and monitoring that and continue to do so.

Reply
smargolis April 13, 2013 at 10:28 am

While it would be nice to have all 2000 jobs go to people already living in SC, the skill sets needed is not available. What is important is the 150 to 200 million a year (repeat) a year, in new salaries will be created in the state. And what do you think happens to that money? Most of it will be spent in this great state creating more opportunities for jobs in construction and the service sector. Also, bringing these skills into South Carolina makes it more attractive to other high tech companies thinking about making a move. We are no longer being viewed as just a textile industry state that has all but vanished.

Reply
Trout r limited April 13, 2013 at 5:49 pm

yet our unemployent in sc is at a record high in spite of the savior bmw. Handouts equal higher taxes greater demand on infrastructure equal higher taxes . It is a viscious circle my friend with no way to measure the end result. Just ask those Amazon employees who run the circuit of employment unemployment employment on a quarterly basis. Sorry, buying jobs with the taxes of the populace is a form of socialism and you will never convince me otherwise.

Reply
smargolis April 15, 2013 at 3:40 pm

I agree that providing tax incentives to Amazon was not a great idea.

1. The jobs provided are lower paying jobs. Not that we don’t need all types of jobs in SC, just that it is not worth it.

2. Unlike providing Boeing, who has no local competition, providing tax incentives to Amazon gives them uneven playing field between them and traditional box stores already residing in the state.

3. As you pointed out, jobs provided by Amazon are very cyclical and provides more costs and administrative work by the state.

However providing large manufacturing companies like BMW and Boeing have huge benefits to the long term health of the state, and in the long run help to keep personal taxes in check. The following is study done by USC Moore School of Business in 2008 details BMW’s impact on the state of South Carolina. Sorry you might have to copy and past the link

http://www.bbr.unl.edu/aubertest/documents/BMW_Economic_Impact.pdf

smargolis April 15, 2013 at 3:43 pm

One more comment on BMW

One of BMW’s most important legacy may be its suppliers. About 50 plants in South Carolina provide parts to the automaker. Together they have added 16,000 jobs to the BMW plant’s 7,000 employees. I assume Boeing will have the same impact

smargolis April 13, 2013 at 10:15 am

Totally agree, But don’t argue with Fits, they never let facts stand in their way of slanting a story. Fits always has facts, but spins them to make a point. Fits wants you to believe that if you make an investment it should all be repaid in the 1st year. So if I invest $1000 in stock in 2013, it should be worth $2000 in 2014. However if that same 1000 only returned me 30% gain over 10 years it was was a bad investment. Fits would like you to forget about the fact that these jobs will be in place for decades, or that the additional Billion dollars Boeing investment makes in North Charleston will create that many more jobs with other companies. Nope, Fits would rather Dr. the truth to meet their point.

Reply
BigT April 13, 2013 at 1:09 pm

FITS just wants to elect Sheheen…logic is not a factor with him…
Shilling for democrats, who are failures before they start, is FITS’ goal…

Reply
BeaufortTiger April 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Not all incentives are created equal, FITS. A game-changing company or industry has the potential for a lot of off-shoot industries and collaborations with higher education.

BMW’s move to the Upstate 20 years ago totally re-shaped Greenville and got it out of its post-textile funk. What’s to say Boeing couldn’t have the same effect in Charleston?

While I agree incentives are generally a bad idea (particularly in cases like Amazon or the outdoor retailer which will have mostly crappy, low-paying jobs), there are some exceptions to the rule. Boeing is a major player.

Reply
L i'll be April 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm

Greenville was not rebuilt by bmw, but by 1 billion in stimulus money over past 10 years courtesy of ‘conservative’ DeMint…..money that was intended for the small rural areas Will is trying to talk everyone else into applying for in this little article…..oh my bad, he is trying to be funny………..If someone wants the money intended for SC but always ending up in Greenville, write me i will help you apply……….

Reply
Trout r limited April 13, 2013 at 8:45 am

The number that gets lost in the scheme is the number of transplants “with relevant experience” that consume many of these jobs. So, create 500 jobs but give 250 to people who re-locate from Seattle then only 250 lucky residents benefit. It happened at BMW. The only filter was having any affiliation with the UAW. A couple of law firms made bank researching and monitoring that and continue to do so.

Reply
smargolis April 13, 2013 at 10:28 am

While it would be nice to have all 2000 jobs go to people already living in SC, the skill sets needed is not available. What is important is the 150 to 200 million a year (repeat) a year, in new salaries will be created in the state. And what do you think happens to that money? Most of it will be spent in this great state creating more opportunities for jobs in construction and the service sector. Also, bringing these skills into South Carolina makes it more attractive to other high tech companies thinking about making a move. We are no longer being viewed as just a textile industry state that has all but vanished.

Reply
Trout r limited April 13, 2013 at 5:49 pm

yet our unemployent in sc is at a record high in spite of the savior bmw. Handouts equal higher taxes greater demand on infrastructure equal higher taxes . It is a viscious circle my friend with no way to measure the end result. Just ask those Amazon employees who run the circuit of employment unemployment employment on a quarterly basis. Sorry, buying jobs with the taxes of the populace is a form of socialism and you will never convince me otherwise.

Reply
smargolis April 15, 2013 at 3:40 pm

I agree that providing tax incentives to Amazon was not a great idea.

1. The jobs provided are lower paying jobs. Not that we don’t need all types of jobs in SC, just that it is not worth it.

2. Unlike providing Boeing, who has no local competition, providing tax incentives to Amazon gives them uneven playing field between them and traditional box stores already residing in the state.

3. As you pointed out, jobs provided by Amazon are very cyclical and provides more costs and administrative work by the state.

However providing large manufacturing companies like BMW and Boeing have huge benefits to the long term health of the state, and in the long run help to keep personal taxes in check. The following is study done by USC Moore School of Business in 2008 details BMW’s impact on the state of South Carolina. Sorry you might have to copy and past the link

http://www.bbr.unl.edu/aubertest/documents/BMW_Economic_Impact.pdf

smargolis April 15, 2013 at 3:43 pm

One more comment on BMW

One of BMW’s most important legacy may be its suppliers. About 50 plants in South Carolina provide parts to the automaker. Together they have added 16,000 jobs to the BMW plant’s 7,000 employees. I assume Boeing will have the same impact

smargolis April 13, 2013 at 10:15 am

Totally agree, But don’t argue with Fits, they never let facts stand in their way of slanting a story. Fits always has facts, but spins them to make a point. Fits wants you to believe that if you make an investment it should all be repaid in the 1st year. So if I invest $1000 in stock in 2013, it should be worth $2000 in 2014. However if that same 1000 only returned me 30% gain over 10 years it was was a bad investment. Fits would like you to forget about the fact that these jobs will be in place for decades, or that the additional Billion dollars Boeing investment makes in North Charleston will create that many more jobs with other companies. Nope, Fits would rather Dr. the truth to meet their point.

Reply
BigT April 13, 2013 at 1:09 pm

FITS just wants to elect Sheheen…logic is not a factor with him…
Shilling for democrats, who are failures before they start, is FITS’ goal…

Reply
9" April 13, 2013 at 7:10 am

Most of the married men I know ain’t getting no blow jobs;their wives cite religious reasons! If they’re hot ,I will satisfy them for free…10 jobs in the next 8 years? I can do that in the next few hours…this state is so backwards…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DyesPp6OUY

Reply
nitrat April 13, 2013 at 8:52 am

Blow jobs give you HPV which gives you all kinds of horrible cancers. Keep up with the latest medical research, 9″.

Reply
BigT April 13, 2013 at 5:53 pm

You ain’t heard, Mentioning all the risks associated w/ their lifestyle is bigotry. Obama’s coming for you w/ a hate crime charge….

Reply
9" April 13, 2013 at 7:10 am

Most of the married men I know ain’t getting no blow jobs;their wives cite religious reasons! If they’re hot ,I will satisfy them for free…10 jobs in the next 8 years? I can do that in the next few hours…this state is so backwards…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DyesPp6OUY

Reply
nitrat April 13, 2013 at 8:52 am

Blow jobs give you HPV which gives you all kinds of horrible cancers. Keep up with the latest medical research, 9″.

Reply
BigT April 13, 2013 at 5:53 pm

You ain’t heard, Mentioning all the risks associated w/ their lifestyle is bigotry. Obama’s coming for you w/ a hate crime charge….

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia April 13, 2013 at 12:52 pm

They’re not looking for a handout, just a hand…………………… or maybe a reach-around.

Reply
CorruptionInColumbia April 13, 2013 at 12:52 pm

They’re not looking for a handout, just a hand…………………… or maybe a reach-around.

Reply
BigT April 13, 2013 at 1:07 pm

Bottom line: FITS is trying to elect Sheheen over Haley. You REALLY want to see waste, more taxes and Failed Obama-type government…Do what FITS wants, and elect Sheheen..if you’re THAT Stupid…

Reply
BigT April 13, 2013 at 1:07 pm

Bottom line: FITS is trying to elect Sheheen over Haley. You REALLY want to see waste, more taxes and Failed Obama-type government…Do what FITS wants, and elect Sheheen..if you’re THAT Stupid…

Reply
vicupstate April 13, 2013 at 7:42 pm

What does thsi story have to do with Hamburger Helper?

Reply
vicupstate April 13, 2013 at 7:42 pm

What does thsi story have to do with Hamburger Helper?

Reply
WorkingTommyC April 15, 2013 at 1:33 pm

Fascism is never the right choice. If we suddenly discovered that sacrificing three people every year to a pagan god the same people who advocate fascism (a.k.a. “incentives,” “public-private partnerships,” “targeted tax breaks,” etc.) would be arguing over how much better we could be doing if we sacrificed a dozen, fifty, or a hundred or more people. In other words, there’s no thought about the lack of morality involved in choosing fascism. If something is inherently wrong, it’s off the table for discussion if you have a conscience.

If you need further persuasion, read Bastiat–he nailed the situation back in the late 1840’s.

In addition, there’s plenty to show that fascism doesn’t work for anyone but influence peddling politicians taking campaign contributions and and their elite corporate cronies.

The sad thing is that we can’t know how much better things would be today and how much better off we might be individually when we’ve not seen an economic environment where the government has across the board, equally applied, extremely low tax rates.

BTW: Read a quote earlier today from Nikki Haley:

“Tax Day is a brutal reminder of how hard it is to make a dollar and how easy it is for government to take it and give it to Boeing!”

Reply
WorkingTommyC April 15, 2013 at 1:33 pm

Fascism is never the right choice. If we suddenly discovered that sacrificing three people every year to a pagan god the same people who advocate fascism (a.k.a. “incentives,” “public-private partnerships,” “targeted tax breaks,” etc.) would be arguing over how much better we could be doing if we sacrificed a dozen, fifty, or a hundred or more people. In other words, there’s no thought about the lack of morality involved in choosing fascism. If something is inherently wrong, it’s off the table for discussion if you have a conscience.

If you need further persuasion, read Bastiat–he nailed the situation back in the late 1840’s.

In addition, there’s plenty to show that fascism doesn’t work for anyone but influence peddling politicians taking campaign contributions and and their elite corporate cronies.

The sad thing is that we can’t know how much better things would be today and how much better off we might be individually when we’ve not seen an economic environment where the government has across the board, equally applied, extremely low tax rates.

BTW: Read a quote earlier today from Nikki Haley:

“Tax Day is a brutal reminder of how hard it is to make a dollar and how easy it is for government to take it and give it to Boeing!”

Reply

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