Recently we advised Pope Francis to lay off politics and focus on his ministry to the Catholic Church …
This week the Pope took our advice, although in the process he managed to create an even bigger controversy than the one engendered by his remarks impugning capitalism (or …not impugning capitalism, according to some).
In a sermon delivered one week before the birth of Christ, the Pope said – or seemed to say – the performance of good works is all that is required for one to inherit the kingdom of heaven. You know … as opposed to faith in God. In other words atheists who explicitly reject Jesus Christ – but do good works – are saved.
Naturally this interpretation of Francis’ remarks prompted a viral reaction from so-called “conservative” talking heads, including Ann Coulter – who remarked that His Holiness was better suited to “get a show on CNN” than be the head of the Catholic Church.
First let’s take a look at what the pope actually said.
Courtesy of Vatican Radio, here are his remarks …
The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.
Hmmmm …
For those of you new to FITS, this website makes it a point not to preach to others regarding our views on religion and salvation. We have them – and are happy to share them – but that isn’t what this website is about. Based on our limited understanding of Catholic doctrine, though, we can say the Pope is accurately reflecting the views of his church when he preaches that the death of Christ was indeed intended for the redemption of all people – and that all people are created in the likeness of God.
We can also say our founding editor, a Presbyterian-turned-Lutheran, has long struggled with the notion of a righteous God condemning individuals to eternal damnation whose lives attempted to model the life of Christ – yet lacked faith in Christ.
Again, though … that’s something we’ll all “find out when we get there,” right?
Anyway, Catholic media were not happy about the visceral reaction to Pope Francis’ comments – and blasted mainstream outlets like The Huffington Post and Reuters for failing to grasp the “difference between redemption and salvation.”
“Could Pope Francis have been a little clearer about what he was trying to say? Sure. That’s the risk of delivering off the cuff sermons,” the website Catholic Vote noted. ” The real fault … lies with the theologically-illiterate press corps, whose understanding of basic Catholic doctrine is so infinitesimal that it is increasingly unable to report on the Catholic Church without completely embarrassing itself.”
Wow …
Aside from what Pope Francis said (or what he really meant), what do you think? Do those who “do good” go to heaven? Is there a heaven?
38 comments
I think he is one of the few religious leaders who is trying to live a Christ like life. It is refreshing and welcome.
You cannot “live a Christ-like life” while contradicting the One you are claining to be emulating. That is a total contradiction.
I’m an agnostic and agree that any god that would condemn a righteous soul over his skepticism on his existence is probably not a god I’d want to be around anyway.
“I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.”-Billy Joel
“Forgiveness is seeing my spit fall into the grave of my enemy.” – Lizard
“If there is a place of eternal torment created by God, that may be enough time for me to work up enough saliva to spit in his face.” – Warlock
Is there Iced Tea in hell?
No.
Not real Iced Tea.
Lots and lots of that premixed crap that many fast food places sell, though.
Also , a varied assortment of bottled “Iced Teas”.
No Coca Cola, either.
Tanker Trucks of Caffeine Free Diet Coke and Nestle Bottled water. (But of course, no ice.)
Strange, I always thought hell would be full of Tang, in its original powdered format.
— someone recently said, “If you think Pope Francis is a liberal, just wait’ll you meet Jesus.”. I think he may be the best thing that’s happened to Christianity since Easter.
A missionary travels to a remote village to spread the gospel. He talks with everyone there about Jesus, telling them that if they do not accept Jesus into their hearts, they will burn in hell for all eternity. Before the missionary leaves, the tribal elder asks, “What if we had never heard about Jesus? Would we still burn in hell?” The missionary replies, “No, I suppose you would go to heaven for all eternity,” to which the elder replies “Then why the hell did you tell us about him!?”
Ann Barnhardt was a methodist turned baptist turned catholic. She gets it right….
http://www.barnhardt.biz/
all other inquiries, see:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/
Interesting Blog – thanks for the link
In a sermon delivered one week before the birth of Christ, the Pope said – or seemed to say – the performance of good works is all that is required for one to inherit the kingdom of heaven. You know … as opposed to faith in God.
———
opposed? I think not! :D
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother
James 2:14-26
King James Version (KJV)
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Be careful using the Book of James to justify a works based salvation –
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (NASB)
You got that right, my friend.
Oh, don’t I know it! The bible is clear in every single instance on this subject!
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I was standing on a hill under a lone mulberry tree, enjoying a refreshing spring breeze one day, and I heard the leaves above me begin to rustle. It was as if Republicans justified by faith afar off in hell, their screams drifting up through the earth to soothe my soul.
I believe that will be the muzak in heaven, like white noise in cubicles here on earth.
What Philippians if referring to is the need for an individual to come to faith “…work out your own…” as opposed to the former collective relationship Jews had with God through Abraham as “a chosen people”.
of course it if.. er, is.
faith without works is Republican.
Ummm, FITS, the Bishop of Rome is head of the Catholic Church. His ministry is to everyone, including you.
And Catholic doctrine, reinforced with changes to the order of the mass two years ago, does not support that everyone is going to heaven.
Like everything he says, it is being misunderstood by people putting it through their own agenda and lens.
“But do good: we will meet one another there…” of course, I have a reservation and will be staying while you’ll be headed to the bus stop for that proverbial highway ride to Hell…
wasn’t it predicted thousands of years ago that Pope Francis would be the last Pope? I remembering hearing that during the conclave last March.
“mainstream outlets like The Huffington Post”…..LOL!!!
While I am not a Catholic, the quote above through the word peace is all accurate statement of Christian doctrine through the word “peace.” Jesus did redeem all of our sins, even Judas’. But that does not mean we will all accept the offer of salvation. He never references salvation or promises salvation to atheists. Only the opportunity for it through Jesus’ atonement for our sins.
The second half is the more controversial part, but again there is nothing incorrect in it. Given that he was trying to craft a message he thinks will appeal to secularists, most of whom are painfully ignorant of theology, it is understandable why his comments have been misunderstood. If you look at what he says, the only thing he refers to in the second have is a “culture of encounter”. The “there” at the end is not heaven, it is a common ground of doing good where believers and nonbelievers can start to have a productive conversation.
“secularists, most of whom are painfully ignorant of theology”
I never took you for a secularist.
No one will take you for a wit, that is for certain.
A mother’s ten year old son comes home from school with a black eye and a very fat lip. The mother asks him what happened. Her son says, ” It was because of a crack about the Pope that I made to Jimmy McCoy.” Mother asks, ” But, didn’t you know that Jimmy is Catholic?” “Yeah, Mom, but I didn’t know the Pope was!”
Actions speak louder than words.
Theological Inquiry:
If I convert to Islam and go to Paradise, can I opt out of the 60 virgins thing and get 60 nymphos instead? I mean Virgins? Nymphos? Come on!
If you trust in Islam, you will not be going to paradise in the first place, so the rest is moot.
Woah, the pope saying atheists aren’t horrible people by default and everyone should do good to, at the very least, help their fellow man?
Bravo.
All unbelievers are going to welcome this message, which allows them to thumb their nose at their Creator and Judge, while still reaping the benefits that go only to those who are His.
FITS doesn’t understand the difference between being redeemed and being saved.
Has the Pope gone crazy? No, he’s just gone Christian. Too bad for all you fake Christians out there who worship the golden calf of money.
This is not Christianity, it is universalism, a heresy.
Three cheers for the Pope! Heaven forbid…he sounds like a Christian.
Apparently you haven’t a clue what a Christian sounds like, Manray
Christians like Coulter and Hannity, fear any teaching that works have anything to do with salvation. They rely on the belief all one has to do is believe and ask forgiveness and one goes to heaven. That belief is essential to reconciling the teachings of Ayn Rand and the teaching of Christ. Which they hold on equal footing. It also allows them to ignore vast swaths of Christ’s teachings (in regard to earthly treasure and works) as little more than a statement of, wouldn’t it be nice if you did these things, but only if you really want to.
Lets face it, its a hell of a lot easier to hate gay people, poor people, Muslims, etc.; stick your money in the bank, and go to church on Sunday for a dose of forgiveness than it is to figure out what you can personally do to reduce hunger, sickness, and suffering in the world.
For those who say works are no part of salvation I offer the following.
Matthew 25: 31-46
“31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
“They rely on the belief all one has to do is believe and ask forgiveness and one goes to heaven”
this is exactly what the Bible teaches, but only if you interpret “believe” properly. There are three possible meanings.
1) As in “believe in UFOs.” But the Bible torpedoes that, when it says, “Even the demons believe — and tremble!”
2) As in, “believe in capitol punishment.” But this is a form of agreement, assent, finding something to be morally or ethically right or wrong. To “believe” in this sense would be passing judgment on God, a sin,
But there is a third meaning, such as when a mother tells her son, “You’ll be fine, I believe in you.” This is projecting trust into the futre, based on past experience. This is another way to say “faith,” which is NOT “a blind leap across a dark chasm.”
To exercise trust in the payment Jesus made, based on what you know, is to accredit Him rightly with sinlessness, and is to hold Him in appropriate esteem. When God sees that you love His Son that much, He is pleased to adopt you into His family.
If you believe you must add works, you are saying that what Jesus did is not good enough, which incurrs God’s wrath.
There certainly is a heaven.
Only those who are perfect go to heaven.
When an imperfect sinner tursts Jesus’s crucifixion as substitutionary payment for their sins, His perfection is credited to the imperfect sinner. Thus they are admitted into heven as dearly beloved children.
But:
The Gospel of John, in chapter 1, explicitly says, “To as many as believed, He gave the right to BECOME the children of God . . .” [emph added]
For Francis to say that we are all BORN children of God is to contrdict the Bible, which is the authoritative source document for Christianity.
For someone to attempt to live Christ–like, but to refule to trust His sacrifice as the sole payment of their sins, is to say, in essence, “I have looked a Jesus, and like a lot of it, but I do not think THAT highly of Him.” It is worse to look at Him closely and reject what he did than to ignore Him. Though the latter dies bearing the guilt of their sins, the former bears the added guilt of having specifically rejected God’s Son, whom He loves.
That person has no reason to expect clemency. But it is still true that they go to hell because of their sins they freely chose to commit, not because God somehow singled them out for malicious treatment.
Did the thief on the cross do any good works? I think not. He only believed and he was saved. But if you have time and truly believe you will do some good works aided by the Holy Spirit and you will be rewarded for your good deeds.