The University of South Carolina’s law school is moving quickly and aggressively to recruit top students from the foundering Charleston School of Law (CSOL), numerous sources familiar with the situation tell FITS. In fact, we’re told USC has waived a transfer deadline and is accepting credit hours from CSOL students wishing to switch schools.
USC’s efforts are paying off, too, with sources telling FITS that “a number of top students are planning to transfer to USC” in the fall.
In response, CSOL is reportedly offering scholarships to these students in an effort to make the price between two schools is comparable.
“It’s interesting that these scholarships were never made available to CSOL students before now,” one source tells FITS, adding that “it’s unclear what effect these last-minute scholarship offers are having on those who have the credentials to transfer.”
CSOL recently entered into a controversial deal with InfiLaw – a company which critics say specializes in producing low-quality “diploma mills.” That’s hardly a recipe for improving the school, which has struggled in recent years on the state’s bar exam.
In fact CSOL was the beneficiary of a scandalous move six years ago by the S.C. Supreme Court, which arbitrarily tossed an entire section of the exam in an effort to artificially inflate the school’s passage rate (just in time for it to receive accreditation from the American Bar Association).
Anyway, news of the CSOL-InfiLaw arrangement – which broke exclusively on FITS – has infuriated staffers, faculty and students. The deal also caused Judge Alex Sanders – a CSOL founder and the school’s longtime public face – to resign in protest along with fellow founder Ralph McCullough. A meeting held last week to address student, faculty and staff concerns only fanned the flames.
64 comments
“USC Poaching CSOL Students”
or
USC Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel for Law Students
They usually do. Look at what they turn out
They can’t chant “We’re Tier III” proudly for nothing.
So Squishy and Scooter where did you attend college, or did you even attend college?
“USC Poaching CSOL Students”
or
USC Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel for Law Students
They usually do. Look at what they turn out
They can’t chant “We’re Tier III” proudly for nothing.
So Squishy and Scooter where did you attend college, or did you even attend college?
CSOL has “top students”? Seriously?
A few.
CSOL has “top students”? Seriously?
A few.
Gimme a lawyer that works hard that graduated from an average school over a lazy graduate from a top school any day.
I have had both and there is no doubt that perspiration beats self-satisfaction.
Gimme a lawyer that works hard that graduated from an average school over a lazy graduate from a top school any day.
I have had both and there is no doubt that perspiration beats self-satisfaction.
“USC Poaching CSOL Students?”
Only in their (CSOL students’) dreams.
I agree with you. This is as unlikely as CSOL successfully recruiting USC Law students to CSOL. This must be a joke!
It wasn’t just USC. Emory, Wake Forest, Minnesota, and Tennessee all took students from CSOL.
“USC Poaching CSOL Students?”
Only in their (CSOL students’) dreams.
I agree with you. This is as unlikely as CSOL successfully recruiting USC Law students to CSOL. This must be a joke!
I’ve always liked Sanders, or more so enjoyed his act. I’m glad to hear that he strongly opposed selling the faculty and students down the river.
I’ve always liked Sanders, or more so enjoyed his act. I’m glad to hear that he strongly opposed selling the faculty and students down the river.
Wow; that’s like throwing back bass and keeping carp.
Wow; that’s like throwing back bass and keeping carp.
My dad, may he rest in peace, used to say that you went to a state’s law school where you intended to practice law. When I asked him why, he opened two books. One was a South Carolina magazine with the names of SC legislators and judges. The other was an annual including USC Law School. He said, if I wanted to find the other names, I could look in other annuals. At the time, everybody was a Democrat. Maybe that’s the takeaway from this saga of two law schools in the Palmetto State.
I graduated from a NC law school and it was a common joke that the worst grad from UNC, Duke, Wake or even Campbell were better qualified and prepared to take the SC Bar exam than USC grads. Judging by what I have seen in 20+yrs I have to agree that is true in a majority of the time.
I don’t know about that. I know plenty of bright people who went to USC Law. I think it’s more about the relationships and the politics. My cousin went to Emory Law and she’s hated by some of the lawyers in our state. Had she gone to USC Law, they might have still hated her, but they would have kept it to themselves. For the record, she’s very kind person, but like everyone in my family, she is strong-willed and opinionated. We see it as a plus. Her only failing is that she is a liberal, but, nobody’s perfect. I’d still take a bullet for her. And she for me.
with sc lawyers being a bright and smart person doesn’t necessarily make one civil or personable. Also if she’s as strong willed, opinionated and liberal as you say, in some parts of this state that would be enough to end any chance of civility from the word go.
Hmmm, a bunch of NC law school students sitting around congratulating themselves on their superiority?
I have practiced in SC for many years now after graduating from USC Law. School is just the start of your education. Native ability and interpersonal skills are critically important as well and cannot be taught.
One thing I HAVE learned over the years is how valuable my many friends from law school are to me across the state. As the years have passed those classmates have become prominent attorneys in private practice, the judiciary, local government and the legislature. I graduated with an instant network of important contacts that has only become more valuable as time has passed.
As anyone who has ever practiced law is aware, what you know is only important if who you know fails you.
Yea, well those jokes are about as common as the jokes at Harvard and Yale about Duke and UNC thinking they are almost Ivy League. Its always easy to make fun of someone else to convince yourself you are superior.
In my 25 years of dealing with lawyers from NC and SC, I have found no difference in the quality of lawyer available in either state. Any large established law school offers more knowledge than anyone can possibly absorb. Its what a person does with that knowledge that makes the difference between a mediocre lawyer and a great lawyer. Its their attitude toward their client and their ability to anticipate needs, and their ability to get the job done. Many time the respect of other lawyers is more important than anything else. You might not know that because you probably would not have experienced that. Any attorney who after 20 years of practice thinks the school he went to makes him superior to any other attorney, lacks self confidence and under estimates his competition. Those thing typically do not lead to respect.
Which school did you go to?
My dad, may he rest in peace, used to say that you went to a state’s law school where you intended to practice law. When I asked him why, he opened two books. One was a South Carolina magazine with the names of SC legislators and judges. The other was an annual including USC Law School. He said, if I wanted to find the other names, I could look in other annuals. At the time, everybody was a Democrat. Maybe that’s the takeaway from this saga of two law schools in the Palmetto State.
I graduated from a NC law school and it was a common joke that the worst grad from UNC, Duke, Wake or even Campbell were better qualified and prepared to take the SC Bar exam than USC grads. Judging by what I have seen in 20+yrs I have to agree that is true in a majority of the time.
I don’t know about that. I know plenty of bright people who went to USC Law. I think it’s more about the relationships and the politics. My cousin went to Emory Law and she’s hated by some of the lawyers in our state. Had she gone to USC Law, they might have still hated her, but they would have kept it to themselves. For the record, she’s very kind person, but like everyone in my family, she is strong-willed and opinionated. We see it as a plus. Her only failing is that she is a liberal, but, nobody’s perfect. I’d still take a bullet for her. And she for me.
with sc lawyers being a bright and smart person doesn’t necessarily make one civil or personable. Also if she’s as strong willed, opinionated and liberal as you say, in some parts of this state that would be enough to end any chance of civility from the word go.
Hmmm, a bunch of NC law school students sitting around congratulating themselves on their superiority?
I have practiced in SC for many years now after graduating from USC Law. School is just the start of your education. Native ability and interpersonal skills are critically important as well and cannot be taught.
One thing I HAVE learned over the years is how valuable my many friends from law school are to me across the state. As the years have passed those classmates have become prominent attorneys in private practice, the judiciary, local government and the legislature. I graduated with an instant network of important contacts that has only become more valuable as time has passed.
As anyone who has ever practiced law is aware, what you know is only important if who you know fails you.
Yea, well those jokes are about as common as the jokes at Harvard and Yale about Duke and UNC thinking they are almost Ivy League. Its always easy to make fun of someone else to convince yourself you are superior.
In my 25 years of dealing with lawyers from NC and SC, I have found no difference in the quality of lawyer available in either state. Any large established law school offers more knowledge than anyone can possibly absorb. Its what a person does with that knowledge that makes the difference between a mediocre lawyer and a great lawyer. Its their attitude toward their client and their ability to anticipate needs, and their ability to get the job done. Many time the respect of other lawyers is more important than anything else. You might not know that because you probably would not have experienced that. Any attorney who after 20 years of practice thinks the school he went to makes him superior to any other attorney, lacks self confidence and under estimates his competition. Those thing typically do not lead to respect.
Which school did you go to?
Wow…a Tier III good ol’ boy law school recruiting “top students” from an over-priced diploma mill for the privileged (but not necessarily bright). Only in SC.
So Mike, where did you attend College?
Aaaaah, Disqus has informed me that we’ve now entered the ad hominem portion of the debate! The “So” intro followed by a totally irrelevant question designed to deflect some criticism is a dead giveaway. OK.
While my college attendance (or lack thereof), of course, bears absolutely no relevance to the relative condition of our two law schools, I’ll humor you with one caveat – I will go ahead and save us the trouble of a protracted debate on a non-issue / red herring by endeavoring to lay out your response for you now. The answer to your question would be one of the following:
A. I am a SC high school graduate, dropout, or holder of a SC GED.
B. I attended some undergrad at a really crappy diploma mill.
C. I graduated from a standard state school with an undergrad degree.
D. I graduated from a not-so-crappy state school with a graduate degree.
Your response to any of the above would likely be:
“You are a dumbass and have no right to an opinion attendant to the manner in which other third parties rate the law schools in SC.”
You probably wouldn’t say it exactly like that, but that would be the gist of things, and that’s simply neither true nor relevant. Don’t be sensitive (I’m not). The schools are what they are. Relax.
For your records, I completed my grad work at both USC and UVA. You don’t have to be an Ivy-League grad (or a grad of the school in question) to possess an informed opinion of that school. You only have to be reasonably intelligent and, well, informed. Peace!
Wow…a Tier III good ol’ boy law school recruiting “top students” from an over-priced diploma mill for the privileged (but not necessarily bright). Only in SC.
So Mike, where did you attend College?
Aaaaah, Disqus has informed me that we’ve now entered the ad hominem portion of the debate! The “So” intro followed by a totally irrelevant question designed to deflect some criticism is a dead giveaway. OK.
While my college attendance (or lack thereof), of course, bears absolutely no relevance to the relative condition of our two law schools, I’ll humor you with one caveat – I will go ahead and save us the trouble of a protracted debate on a non-issue / red herring by endeavoring to lay out your response for you now. The answer to your question would be one of the following:
A. I am a SC high school graduate, dropout, or holder of a SC GED.
B. I attended some undergrad at a really crappy diploma mill.
C. I graduated from a standard state school with an undergrad degree.
D. I graduated from a not-so-crappy state school with a graduate degree.
Your response to any of the above would likely be:
“You are a dumbass and have no right to an opinion attendant to the manner in which other third parties rate the law schools in SC.”
You probably wouldn’t say it exactly like that, but that would be the gist of things, and that’s simply neither true nor relevant. Don’t be sensitive (I’m not). The schools are what they are. Relax.
For your records, I completed my grad work at both USC and UVA. You don’t have to be an Ivy-League grad (or a grad of the school in question) to possess an informed opinion of that school. You only have to be reasonably intelligent and, well, informed. Peace!
Here are a few facts:
1. Every year, a few students transfer from CSOL to USC. Nothing new.
2. Many of these students are not near the top of their class at CSOL yet are accepted to transfer to USC. Many are much closer to the bottom of their class at CSOL, transfer, and earn their degree from USC.
3. Law schools are funny. They don’t care too much about the “stats” of transfer students. They get the money from these students but don’t have to report their credentials along with their admissions statistics…which factor in to the way schools are ranked.
4. There are many CSOL students and USC students who have transferred to schools much more highly regarded than USC.
5. There are many schools much more highly regarded than USC. Students and alumni from these schools snicker at USC and the quality of lawyer it has been producing for many years. These students and alumni also snicker at CSOL.
6. USC has produced many more shitty attorneys than CSOL. Read the headlines on FITS. Most of the scumbags he gets paid to smear hold degrees from the “best” law school in SC. And at least one of those scumbags is paying him to smear CSOL at every turn.
(#6 may not be fair as USC has a multi-decennial head-start in the production shitty lawyers, but its true.)
” There are many CSOL students and USC students who have transferred to schools much more highly regarded than USC. ”
How many CSOL students have transferred to schools “much more highly regarded than USC?” Please provide the number of students transferring and the names of the schools so we can evaluate them. And cite your source.
Sorry, not gonna go dig up sources but you can if you’d like. Every year CSOL kids transfer to schools like George Washington, UNC, Wake, UGA, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, George Mason, Emory, American, the list goes on. I know students by name who have transferred from CSOL to an above listed school in recent years but I’m not going to list names here…you can contact the admissions departments at those schools to confirm. Bottom line: if you transfer from CSOL, chances are you are going to end up at a “better” school than USC as so many schools in the US are “better” than the USC. The common local fallacy is that USC is actually a good school itself. USC is one of the lowest ranking state flagship schools in the country. In the South, Mississippi is the only lower ranked flagship…and that’s close and questionable. There are no fewer than three schools in NC ranked higher, three in GA ranked higher, two in TN ranked higher, three in FL ranked higher, and five in VA ranked higher. If you want to compare USC with all ACC and SEC schools with law schools, USC is SECOND TO LAST in law school rank. Not that rankings mean anything.
I was a rising 2L at CSOL. When all of this crap went down I got out. Now I’m at a top 20 law school. Pretty sure that’s “much more highly regarded than USC.”
Here are a few facts:
1. Every year, a few students transfer from CSOL to USC. Nothing new.
2. Many of these students are not near the top of their class at CSOL yet are accepted to transfer to USC. Many are much closer to the bottom of their class at CSOL, transfer, and earn their degree from USC.
3. Law schools are funny. They don’t care too much about the “stats” of transfer students. They get the money from these students but don’t have to report their credentials along with their admissions statistics…which factor in to the way schools are ranked.
4. There are many CSOL students and USC students who have transferred to schools much more highly regarded than USC.
5. There are many schools much more highly regarded than USC. Students and alumni from these schools snicker at USC and the quality of lawyer it has been producing for many years. These students and alumni also snicker at CSOL.
6. USC has produced many more shitty attorneys than CSOL. Read the headlines on FITS. Most of the scumbags he gets paid to smear hold degrees from the “best” law school in SC. And at least one of those scumbags is paying him to smear CSOL at every turn.
(#6 may not be fair as USC has a multi-decennial head-start in the production shitty lawyers, but its true.)
” There are many CSOL students and USC students who have transferred to schools much more highly regarded than USC. ”
How many CSOL students have transferred to schools “much more highly regarded than USC?” Please provide the number of students transferring and the names of the schools so we can evaluate them. And cite your source.
Sorry, not gonna go dig up sources but you can if you’d like. Every year CSOL kids transfer to schools like George Washington, UNC, Wake, UGA, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, George Mason, Emory, American, the list goes on. I know students by name who have transferred from CSOL to an above listed school in recent years but I’m not going to list names here…you can contact the admissions departments at those schools to confirm. Bottom line: if you transfer from CSOL, chances are you are going to end up at a “better” school than USC as so many schools in the US are “better” than the USC. The common local fallacy is that USC is actually a good school itself. USC is one of the lowest ranking state flagship schools in the country. In the South, Mississippi is the only lower ranked flagship…and that’s close and questionable. There are no fewer than three schools in NC ranked higher, three in GA ranked higher, two in TN ranked higher, three in FL ranked higher, and five in VA ranked higher. If you want to compare USC with all ACC and SEC schools with law schools, USC is SECOND TO LAST in law school rank. Not that rankings mean anything.
Shut it down. There is no need for South Carolina to have more than one law school. The job market can’t support it
a truly free market would have taken care of that for you…
Likely not. There’s a sucker born every minute.
Shut it down. There is no need for South Carolina to have more than one law school. The job market can’t support it
a truly free market would have taken care of that for you…
Likely not. There’s a sucker born every minute.
Seems like a good idea to me – pick students who have already (theoretically) proven that they have the chops to be successful.
Seems like a good idea to me – pick students who have already (theoretically) proven that they have the chops to be successful.
Interesting that CSOL didn’t give a darn about its top students until they want to leave. Probably worried that its bar passage rates will plummet if the top students leave. Smart move by USC too.
Interesting that CSOL didn’t give a darn about its top students until they want to leave. Probably worried that its bar passage rates will plummet if the top students leave. Smart move by USC too.
Poaching sounds harsh but I would say that it is a free market and USC School of Law is just doing what is good for business. Why would you NOT want to attract talented students? It certainly offers quality candidates an obvious solution to a horrible alternative. This is no different than what schools do with sports. Actually, I would rather see it done for academic reasons. Afterall, it is a place you are trying to obtain an education, not a degree in football, baseball or the like.
I would say that it is a free market and USC School of Law is just doing what is good for business. Why would you NOT want to attract talented students? It certainly offers quality candidates an obvious solution to a horrible alternative. This is no different than what schools do with sports. Actually, I would rather see it done for academic reasons. Afterall, it is a place you are trying to obtain an education, not a degree in football, baseball or the like.
The issue discussed in this article is common practice at JD institutions. Speculation is not news.
The issue discussed in this article is common practice at JD institutions. Speculation is not news.
This story really captures the essence of FITS right there in four words: “USC poaching CSOL students?” I get it, this is a gossip rag run by a wife-beater whose editorial positions sound like they’re being shouted out of a log cabin, but the level of bull-shit really seeps through the screen on this one.
What’s more likely: a law school waived a deadline for some qualified transfer applicants in an unfortunate situation, or one school mercilessly poaching students from the other’s student body, picking over its remains like a desiccated water buffalo. Maybe the better question is which drives more site traffic.
*Edit: Will Folks was arrested for beating his fiancé, not his wife. I apologize for any offense this may have caused.
This story really captures the essence of FITS right there in four words: “USC poaching CSOL students?” I get it, this is a gossip rag run by a wife-beater whose editorial positions sound like they’re being shouted out of a log cabin, but the level of bull-shit really seeps through the screen on this one.
What’s more likely: a law school waived a deadline for some qualified transfer applicants in an unfortunate situation, or one school mercilessly poaching students from the other’s student body, picking over its remains like a desiccated water buffalo. Maybe the better question is which drives more site traffic.
*Edit: Will Folks was arrested for beating his fiancé, not his wife. I apologize for any offense this may have caused.