By one vote, South Carolina’s “Republican-controlled” House of Representatives killed a universal school choice bill that would have provided expanded academic options for all parents and a lifeline for more than 100,000 children trapped in failing public schools.
The debate took less than half an hour – which is interesting when you consider that lawmakers spent two days earlier this month passing legislation that made the collard greens the state’s “official leafy vegetable.”
Priorities, priorities …
Lawmakers also refused to hold an “up-or-down” vote on the legislation itself, with the decisive vote being a measure to “table” the bill. The result was the same, though – a decisive defeat for parents and children and a resounding victory for the state’s education establishment, which once again used taxpayer-funded resources to lobby for the defeat of the legislation.
“Please email our Lexington County Delegation about this bill,” a local principal wrote during business hours from his taxpayer-funded computer. “Tell them NO.”
Like previous versions of parental choice, the bill defeated by the House would have permitted all South Carolina families to claim a state income tax credit for out-of-pocket tuition expenses. Homeschooling families would be permitted to claim a credit for instructional expenses, and non-profit organizations would provide low-income children with tuition scholarships. To fund those scholarships, both individuals and corporations would be permitted to claim a state tax credit for donations made to Student Scholarship Organizations (SSO’s) – IRS-recognized non-profits that would be required to spend 95 percent of their contributions on scholarships for low-income students.
(To read our exhaustive recap of this groundbreaking legislation, click here. To learn more about the bureaucratic forces that have successfully blocked the bill so far, click here. To see for yourself the undisputed failure of our state’s current status quo’s current approach to public education, click here).
Despite record funding increases in recent years, South Carolina’s public schools continue to fall further behind the rest of the nation. Our abysmal graduation rate has continued to decline – mirroring retreating SAT and stagnating ACT scores. Also, a recent report found that more than one-third of the nation’s 100 worst public schools are located in South Carolina.
Nonetheless, lawmakers have appropriated a record $11,754 per child in the current year’s budget– a figure that doesn’t include bond money and other local government spending on buildings.
The vote to table (i.e. kill) the legislation passed by a 60-59 margin, with sixteen “Republicans” joining Democrats in opposing the legislation. Those sixteen “Republicans” were:
Rita Allison
Joan Brady
Doug Brannon
Derham Cole
Danny Cooper
Mike Forrester
Marion Frye
Mike Gambrell
Davey Hiott
Jenny Horne
Steve Moss
Steve Parker
Gene Pinson
B.R. Skelton
Eddie Tallon
Bill Whitmire
Obviously, had just one of those lawmakers voted the other way we’d be looking at a victory for parents and children … not another defeat. That’s what makes Allison’s vote particularly troubling. Last weekend, she told Tea Party leaders in Spartanburg, S.C. that she would vote in favor of the legislation.
What happened? Somebody got to her …
Hopefully supporters of academic freedom will get in touch with these “Republicans.” And hopefully Republican voters will remind each of these lawmakers of what the GOP platform has to say about choice.
“We embrace the healthy competition that will result from a comprehensive school choice plan that includes the private sector, and believe such a system should be instituted from kindergarten through 12th grade,” the GOP platform notes. “In addition to improving public school performance, a system of school choice that includes tax credits, scholarship granting organizations and vouchers would offer more compassionate and better opportunities for all children in South Carolina.”
Parental choice has proven successful at raising achievement levels everywhere it has been implemented. No wonder Oklahoma and Indiana have implemented new parental choice programs this year, while leaders in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are moving to expand successful programs in those states.
It’s a shame South Carolina continues to ignore proven results – and the rising tide of support for parental choice – by continuing to pour more money into the same old failed status quo.
***
By Big T May 25, 2011 at 5:44 pm
The BACKWARDS 16…
Thanks for listing their names.
If ANY of them are in tight districts, they need to be gotten after by Conservatives or should I say REAL, pro-achievement, Republicans!!!!
By T Bell May 25, 2011 at 6:06 pm
The only victors today were those who profit from BIG GOVERNMENT, and their win comes and the continued cost to students and well-intended educators at both public and non-public schools. Its a shame that our state legislature is so committed to fight the status quo, that we will keep kids trapped in failing schools simply because those schools are ostensibly “public.” Those students of color and from the lowest income areas had the most to gain from Choice, because they have the fewest options today. More of the same “ranked 50th” headlines in the future it seems.
By Teacher May 25, 2011 at 6:24 pm
I emailed Rep. Allison several times asking her to support this bill. She never responded.
By Teacher May 25, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Nor did I hear back from Speaker Harrell. It’s worth noting I immediately heard back from Reps. Ballentine, Norman, Huggins, Bingham, Pope, Frye, Chumley, Cooper, and White. They didn’t promise their support but they were respectful enough to respond to my email.
By Brakeman May 25, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Gimme a brake! Oklahoma’s law gives a tax credit to those that give a donation to scholarship fund not a tax break to home school or private school parents. When will the choicers be truthful that all they want is another tax break? They couldn’t care less about some kid in the corridor of shame.
As far as one size fits all… When was the last time you looked at a high school curriculum guide or talked to a guidance counselor about all the options available to students today?
By Gillon May 25, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Here’s an interesting exercise for those of an inquiring nature. Go to the SC Ethics Commission site and check out the campaign contribution disclosure reports. Check which House members received contributions from New York billionaire Howard Rich, or one of his many shell companies, and compare that with their vote on this bill. See if there’s any correlation.
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 6:46 pm
So the bill that would have subsidized the elitist child’s education on the backs of ALL the tax payers failed. Go figure.
By Teacher May 25, 2011 at 6:56 pm
@dwb619 when’s the last time you’ve taught in a South Carolina public school?
@Brakeman when’s the last time you’ve taught in a South Carolina public school?
You’re both mistaken.
By Big T May 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Hey Brakeman: Taxbreak _ the peoples’ money going back to THEM, you LEFTIST IDIOT!!!
And Howard Rich for President. He seems to care about REAL EDUCATION, not waste on ignorance. He must be a true American. Thank you, Mr. Rich.
By crackahasscrackah May 25, 2011 at 6:59 pm
What do these 16 have in common? For one thing, most if not all of them represent districts where the public schools are strong (Pickens, Dorchester 2, Richland 2, etc.).
Now, Will, let’s just presume for the sake of argument that what you argue is true . . . that this bill is “a lifeline for more than 100,000 children trapped in failing public schools.” Well, Will, where are those 100,000 children? Not in Pickens County. Not in Dorchester 2 or Richland 2. If you think that fat and happy suburban Republicans give a rat’s ass about kids in Marion-by-God County, you haven’t paying attention.
By James May 25, 2011 at 7:01 pm
At lest there remains some semblance of common sense in Columbia. I am disturbed to know that my representative voted for the bill, despite the fact we have excellent schools in his district. But thankful we avoided an entitlement program targeted at the most affluant.
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 7:10 pm
What’s teaching in a school got to do with it? Would it not be an additional burden on ALL taxpayers for the benefit of the FEW?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 7:12 pm
And another thing, One of my children went to private school. I didn’t blubber about the cost. It was a personal decision.
By kc May 25, 2011 at 7:20 pm
You already have “school choice.” You just want me to pay for it.
By Jim May 25, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Hey Big T, if you can’t afford to send your kids to private school, do what I told my kids to do when they wanted something they could not afford; get a job, or second job, or put your wife and kids to work. But don’t ask me to shoulder a larger percentage of the cost of goverment so a bunch of stay at home moms can watch their soaps, have lunch with the girls, and go to after school soccer practice while I work 12 hour days and pay my fair share of taxes.
This piece of crap legislation is about money for lazy ass people who want to force me and every other taxpayer who does not have a kid in private school to give them money. It has nothing to do with helping poor kids, or education.
By Longtime Republican May 25, 2011 at 7:33 pm
You bunch of moronic tea baggers have suffered a defeat and you will suffer many more because you are extremists who are out of touch.
By Silence Dogood May 25, 2011 at 7:35 pm
For those “rightist idiots” who think expanding goverment to support the private schools in addition to the public schools they already support, is just “giving them back their own tax money,” that just seems odd to me.
So they make personal choices, and get back tax monies paid for it??? I chose not to have kids – i.e. no cost to the system, so should I get tax money back for my personal choice not to utilize the public schools? What about other personal choices I make (I keep up my back yard instead of using public parks, I have gun and don’t call the police et cetera, money back please?). What about people who have say four kids, and don’t pay enough in state taxes to cover four vouchers? Do they essentially ‘make money’ off the deal or do people who don’t pay enough in taxes get the shaft. Also, who pays taxes ONLY for school, the taxes (percentages of them) go to all sorts of programs, but I guess if your kids are in private school then your taxes were only going to pay for public school?
These school choice arguments are so so very flawed on so so so many levels its just plain ridiculous. But willful blindness to that almost carried the day in the S.C. State House – terrifying if you ask me.
By Sunny May 25, 2011 at 7:40 pm
@ dwb619 you say, “So the bill that would have subsidized the elitist child’s education on the backs of ALL the tax payers failed. Go figure.”
What you should have said: “So the bill that would give everyone an opportunity to send their child to better schools AND receive a tax credit to do so failed.”
My children are in private school, and I am offended that you call them elitist. We pinch pennies to pay tuition every year, forgoing other luxuries that most folks enjoy in order to invest in our children. Why? Because as George Washington said, “If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.”
All SC children deserve better than to be stuck in under-performing schools. Our legislature really missed the boat on this one.
By Silence Dogood May 25, 2011 at 7:54 pm
I take a car instead of the bus, but I have to pay taxes that go to support public buses, can I get back a tax credit for driving my personal car instead of taking the public buses, pretty please?
By Silence Dogood May 25, 2011 at 7:56 pm
When I take private toll roads instead of public roads can I get a tax break for that too?
By Silence Dogood May 25, 2011 at 7:58 pm
Speaking of which, on a federal level, when I use UPS and Fedex over the USPS (which is partially subsidized by the “Big Gov”) can I just get a tax credit for using the private courier?
By rick May 25, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Good for the house to take this stand on “choice”, slang for segregation. The same people that favor choice also favored slavery and segregation. Don’t go away mad, just go away. You wanna educate your kids as you see fit, good for you, just don’t expect me to fill the bill.
By Jake May 25, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Rick Quinn just lost my vote. I will call him tomorrow to let him know and ask how much he took from Howard Rich
By Jake May 25, 2011 at 8:12 pm
And Bobby Harrel I remember when you used to send emails out to the public school teachers telling us how much you supported us. I guess now it’s to hell with us.
By James May 25, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Sunny, how do I know your private school is better than your public school? Maybe you’re paying for your kids to get an inferior education. Maybe you’re investment is a bad one. Maybe one day your kids will say, “hey mom why didn’t you and dad work harder and save money for me to go to a really good college, instead of dumping all of our money into that crappy private high school I went to.” That’s ok with me, as long as its your money and not mine.
This is just more of the “all public schools are bad” lie the voucher/tax credit crowd puts out. There are plenty of excellent public schools in SC, and most are better than the local private schools. As is the case in my county. The fact that you assume private schools are better than public schools shows you are an elitist.
As I said before this bill does nothing to help poor kids trapped in bad public schools. If that was the goal, it would be designed to help only kids trapped in bad public schools.
By Jim May 25, 2011 at 8:17 pm
Hey Sunny, why don’t you tell us what luxuries you are forgoing that MOST folks enjoy. Do you and your husband both have a paying job?
By BigT May 25, 2011 at 8:17 pm
Funny how democrats allegedly ‘CARE’ about the children…
Looks like they care more about propping up failure and forcing poor kids to go to the poor schools they have created, while wasting a fortune of OUR money…
Good News: ONE more vote and people who actually care about children and QUALITY education will win…
The days of the BACKWARDS 16 are numbered!!!
By fromthemiddle May 25, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Howie needs to pack his carpet bag and get back to real estate in New York. Thank goodness for 16 brave and smart Republicans who had the guts to stop the bill. They got it right! It was a crappy piece of legislation with all kinds of hidden problems. (Shannon – the schools do not have to be accredited)
The Tepublicans rush in like fools – cram stuff down people’s throats… Amazon? Tax credits? Thank God for 16 Real Repubs who are finally standing up!!!
By BigT May 25, 2011 at 8:26 pm
FTM: You are like a Segregationist of the 50s. But bhange is coming. You almost got your mediocrity-loving ass kicked this session. It’s just a matter of time…
You can’t stay Ignorant and Backwards forever. Of course YOU can, but the people will move forward. We care about our children more than we care about clinging to socialist-type government.
By Joe May 25, 2011 at 8:30 pm
So the status-quo, government knows best, let’s do nothing and keep our children trapped in crappy schools while we piss away people’s tax dollars crowd with no parental choice won again. Go figure.
By Brakeman May 25, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Teacher: I’m correct.
Big t: only Mississippi and Tennessee have tax freedom days that come before SC.
By Jim May 25, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Hey Joe, no one is limiting your choice. You can send your kids to any private school you want.
By Sick of Pandering May 25, 2011 at 8:34 pm
The bill is not an education bill to help the poor children in bad schools. It is a way for individuals and businesses to redirect their tax liability in South Carolina which in turn would knock a huge hole in the general fund. It was poorly written and most fiscally conservative Republicans wouldn’t vote for this bill because of what it would do to the infrastructure of SC. Libertarians, on the other hand, would jump on it in a heartbeat. They seem to care about two things….themselves and makeing SC the great Libertarian experiment. Follow the Howie money train…………………to privatized education.
By Big T May 25, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Brakeman: Nice Try…but SC has spent more and more on education, and the dumping of money has not stopped the things (that liberals are responsible for) that you complain about over and over…
In democrat districts, social ills rage. Teenaged mothers in a poverty spiral and kids w/ no dad around. That is YOUR fault. You NEVER ID the problem. You simply stick your FILTHY paws out and demand more…
This legislation may have ALLOWED a kid in one of your Hell Hole bass-ackward democrat districts to seek something away from the risky lifestyles you ignore. But if they actually got educated, they’d quit voting for democrats. And that’s why you’re scared to do the RIGHT Thing.
By Billy Bob May 25, 2011 at 9:04 pm
By one vote, South Carolina’s “Republican-controlled” House of Representatives killed a universal school choice bill that would have funneled taxpayer money to ‘private’ schools for the wealthy!!
By Brakeman May 25, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Big t: http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Sunny,
Answer me this. Would admission to the school of choice be MANDATED to ANY child with a voucher?
By Get a writer kevin May 25, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Silence Dogood – how dare you try to insert facts, or logic into this debate? You better shut that down right now so people can go on further emotionally charged rants without considering any of the logical flaw in the “shcool choice” debate that you pointed out. Just stop it right now!
By fastmouth May 25, 2011 at 9:18 pm
There are about 4 Representatives whose names are in yellow. Did they not vote? If that’s the case, wander why they didn’t vote?
By Sunny May 25, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Jim–Yes, my husband and I both have paying jobs. As for luxuries, we don’t do movies, eat out infrequently, take modest vacations every few years, drive 10 year old cars…
dwb619–This vote wasn’t about vouchers. It is about tax credits. Not the same.
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 9:32 pm
What’s the difference?
You would still be getting a check from the state tax payers for your choice of schools.You avoided the question about MANDATE.
Wanna’ answer that one?
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Excuse me, not a check ,but a direct tax credit. How would the difference in state tax withheld and tuition rate be covered?
By Christopher Gustavus Memminger May 25, 2011 at 9:35 pm
Silence dogood, you are an idiot, everything you buy is cheaper because of the bus system. You do get a tax break for driving your car because the taxes are capped at 300$. Dont act like your paying attention unless you actually are.
To think that the State money will EVER be equitablly allocated is ignorance. Stop depending on the government and educate your kids. at any cost. Anyone who is waiting on the State of sc will be sorely disappointed.
By dwb619 May 25, 2011 at 9:35 pm
If your tuition was $10,000 and your state with holding was $5,000, would your “credit” come in the form of a check from the state taxpayers?
By Get a writer kevin May 25, 2011 at 9:37 pm
Christopher, you may want to back off on Silence Dogood until you review his first comment to take notice that he is actually using those examples to ridicule the ludicour school choice arguments used.
By Silence Dogood May 25, 2011 at 9:41 pm
Christopher, I actually agree with you. I was hoping my sarcasm as to what a bunch of whiny bitches the school choice advocates are would be apparenty by the string of my comments. I must have missed the mark – i do not think the fact that I don’t have kids entitles me to a tax credit for monies paid for schools, or using my back yard instead of “public parks” the whole thing was actually shot at the “school choice” argument. I need to get off this forum and leave it to the brains of the world.
By Mike at the Beach May 25, 2011 at 9:49 pm
…And the “Nail-on-the-head” award goes to crackahasscrackah…
How right you are. It’s easy to vote with the status quo when you represent a county (or school district) with politically connected, high-income, *mostly white* constituents. If you’re fortunate enough to live in one of these districts, choice is obviously not that big a deal to you. No one seems to care, but that’s NOT the case in Dillon, Marion, Abbeville, etc.
Check out some quick facts from the Abbeville County School District, et al. v. the State of South Carolina, et al suit:
*********************
-The plaintiff districts are 88.4% minority v. the State average which is 48.1%.
-The plaintiff districts are primarily poor with 86% of the students on free and reduced lunch v. 55% for the State average. (Free and reduced lunch enrollment is the typical standard used by educators to judge poverty.)
-The percentage of schools in the plaintiff districts that are unsatisfactory and below average are 75%; v. only 17.4% of the total schools in South Carolina. This is a long term systemic problem as 79% of the schools in plaintiffs’ district ranked unsatisfactory or below average for 3 years in a row (2001-2003).
The high school dropout rates for the plaintiff districts range between 44%-67%.
The teachers in the plaintiff districts:
-Make less money than the teachers in other districts;
-Have fewer continuing contracts than teachers in other districts;
-We have fewer teachers with advanced degrees;
-We have fewer teachers on continuing contracts;
-We have twice as many teachers teaching with out of field permits; and
-We have almost 3 times the number of teachers with substandard certificates.
*********************
In regard to another part of the issue directly related to geography (and representation), take a look at the underpaid teachers in one of the non- “Corridor of Shame” areas:
http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/14654062/in-a-tight-budget-year-administrators-making-big-bucks
The status quo is broken, and evidently won’t be fixed as long as the well-entrenched “education lobby” (and its powerful bureaucracy) has its way…
By Bemused May 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm
FITS, you do dance with them that brought you. As you cash Howie Rich’s checks, be ashamed for trying to sell out South Carolina’s children for your own benefit and that of a sociopathic narcissist in NY who wants to make SC’s children guinea pigs in his little experiment.
By BIN News May 25, 2011 at 11:39 pm
There goes that giant sucking sound, again.
The voucher scam went down the toilet, again, just like it deserves.
Vouchers (no matter what you call them) would do nothing to help those who need help the most. They would only rob from the poor…
All that’s left after the vote is voucher scum.
They’re the one’s banking Voucher Clown money.
By baker May 26, 2011 at 12:29 am
Great to see how the numerous Republicans from Spartanburg County voted. They deserve credit for taking a stand against this so-called Education Opportunity Act junk.
By pleasechokeon yoursourgrapes May 26, 2011 at 12:51 am
Thank goodness there is barely just enough collective good sense left in the House to thwart this very bad idea.
By Concerned Citizen May 26, 2011 at 12:57 am
SCHOOL CHOICE IS NEEDed FOR SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN AND MOST OF US ARE NOT RICH!!!!
My child has a right to an education yet we are told there’s not the funds for what is medically necessary for your child. Most teachers have not been trained in autism because the principals don’t want to pay for a substitute for her to go and learn.
I pay health insurance for my family and all of our employees yet autism is not covered. Why can’t I take my child’s ‘education’ money to help me pay for a school that can help my child?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6fcIqUHz8Q
It would be funny if it were not so close to the truth.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 6:34 am
Why is it liberals always WHINE about over-crowded classrooms? If you allow parents a choice, wouldn’t it eliminate some of the crowd?
Truth is: The school system is set up to drag the better student down to the level of the students who has parents and students who don’t care.
If we quit funding your lame scheme for what you term as “EQUALITY,” corrupt and greedy administrators will look even worse than they already do.
SC has a majority of Republicans, IT’s TIME TO START Governing like we have CONSERVAIVES. Liberals are FAILURES. Let’s stop mimmicking that Failure.
By victor May 26, 2011 at 6:40 am
The bill was flawed. Its premise that scholarships would cover economically disadvantaged students in failing schools was either pie-in-the-sky optimistic or just plain cynical. A bill that actually benefits these kids, which is the basis of legislation that has passed in other states, would have a chance. All this bill did was provide a tax break to families who would have sent their children to private schools anyway. Unfortunately, these are also the folks that fund the SCRG, so there’s little chance of any rethinking of how this legislation is structured. The fact that this bill didn’t pass this year is a tribute to the political ineptitude of those pushing it. The time was never better. It will have much less of a chance to pass in an election year.
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By Big T May 26, 2011 at 8:12 am
Victor: You are one of the most tired Cliches. There is every allowance, break, and and consideration made for “economically disadvantaged students.”
It’s why bright kids are held back, so the ones who do not care, w/ partent who do not care, can “Catch Up.” And that, of course NEVER happens…
Talk about Pie-in-the-Sky.” That’s all liberalism is. And your track record of FAILURE should have dis-qualifed you long ago.
Again: Forcing kids to stay in the gutter (and pay exorbitantly for it) is no way to address the ‘EQUALITY’ you hideous mouthpieces espouse. Making EVERYBODY inferior should be a Crime. But liberals do it everyday, then Whine for more money to do it some more. And we STUPIDLY give in to them, despite the constant failure.
By Soft Sigh from Hell May 26, 2011 at 8:28 am
So the rich GOPers don’t get tax rebates to send their scions to Haughty Highbrow Academy and to Mt. Snoot Prep School & Military Academy.
So the regular GOPers don’t get tax money to send their kids to the Bobby E. Lee Resegregation Academies and Lynching Tree Unreformed Baptist Church Day Schools.
Boo Hoo.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 8:36 am
So the Liberals get their way again: And after decades of gobbling more and more money, public schools will just get worse.
It’s Time for the Liberals to sit down and shut up. Obama is a GREAT Example: You are GIVEN everything you Demand, and the Mess is still here and diving deeper.
Liberalism is a FAILURE. And NOWHERE is that more Apparant than our schools.
That said: CHANGE is coming. We barely missed this year, but we’ll target the districts that Failed us…and Next time we’ll break the stanglehold of ignorance.
By Soft Sigh from Hell May 26, 2011 at 8:54 am
“And NOWHERE is that more Apparant (sic) than our schools.”
What is apparent at the national scale is that worse performing school systems overall are in the most Republican and thus most conservative states. Nothing liberal about them at all. In large part of course this is from the conservative tendency to give short shrift to or abandon the poor and the melanin tinted.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 9:03 am
Cliché-mongering again, Soft Sigh. South Carolina has SOME of the BEST PUBLIC SCHOOLS in the country. It’s your kind of rhetoric that focuses on the worst, in order to extort money for more Failure.
School Choice would allow the poor, who actually care for better, to get out of the socialistic-type Hell Hole that you have created.
But liberal GREED and Control is resisting.
Enjoy it. You are like the Segregationists of old. Your time will pass. And failure will not be rewarded.
By Soft Sigh from Hell May 26, 2011 at 9:12 am
For the spelling and reading impaired (church schooled?):
“What is apparent —>***AT THE NATIONAL SCALE***<— "
"Some" don't add up to enough to affect this overall characteristic here in SC.
By eggaday May 26, 2011 at 9:24 am
thank you to the 16 Republicans that don’t bow down to Howard Rich and Markie Mark Sanfraud.
By Rural County interest May 26, 2011 at 9:25 am
crackahasscrackah and Mike at the Beach are exactly right. If you live in Lexington 1 or 5, Simpsonville, Wando, Daniel, Dorman, etc, you have good schools and you and your rep. vote against anyone else having a real chance. You have what you want.
Look at the census or the high school enrollment #’s. Those with good schools are growing rapidly. But the large number of rural counties and cities with mediocre or worse schools are shrinking, and those counties and cities/towns are struggling.
This was a chance to try something different. Instead, we’ll get more of the same. With that result, I would suggest building more schools in Lexington, Powdersville, etc. as the migration of middle-class-with-children from rural areas and urban areas will continue.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 9:27 am
Bottom Line: Schools where democrats RULE, are in the worst shape. They need a choice more than anyone else.
So it’s kind of IRONIC that the Liberals would be so against an alternative.
But of course, if you can keep students POOR and IGNORANT, they will continue to elect democrats.
PS: Soft: when you keep keying on a typo, it’s an indication you’ve lost the substantive portion of the argument. In other words, you have nothing else.
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By RINO Buster May 26, 2011 at 9:32 am
Come on up to Greenwood and see our newly contructed high school press box at the football field, 2.1 million worth of tax payers money. But we can’t let the money follow the child. Laying off teachers, budget cuts, but football is OK. Thanks alot Gene Pinson…we all know you and your wife are on the government tit.
By James May 26, 2011 at 9:44 am
Well Big T,if you are so concerned about kids in failing schools propose a bill whereby the state will help with the cost of tuition at a private school for kids who are currently attending “failing” public schools until those schools are no longer failing. Then you will be targeting a problem. But you are not interested in that, you and your supporters want to abandon the public schools, and you want the taxpayers to help you pay to do that. If opposing that is liberalism, so be it. Thomas Jefferson was a vocal proponent of publicly funded education, so I guess he was a liberal.
Concerned Citizen if it is true (frankly not likely) that a private school can show it provides better facilities for a child with autism than the public school, then maybe we need a scholarship program to help and obviously a lot more people would support that. But asking me to help pay for parents to send their kids to Porter Gaud, Hammond or Heathwood makes absolutely no sense.
As far as GREED is concerned, nothing is more greedy than some low life elitist who wants everyone else to help him stop supporting public education and pay to send his kid to a school that would not even take the kids you pretend to be interested in. Like Gaddafi, you want to wrap yourself in a human shield made out of people you could care less about.
By David in Columbia May 26, 2011 at 9:46 am
All school ‘choice’ will do is give tax money to the wealthy and those who already have kids in private school, while taking money out of the public schools. It will cost our state MILLIONS more than we already pay because everyone currently in private school will now be eligible for state money they don’t currently receive. ‘Competition’ will not help struggling schools at all… a small percentage of parents might move their kids given the chance, leaving the rest of students behind in a school that then has even less money for funding. Others wouldn’t be able to go to a private school even if they wanted to due to lack of transportation or availability of any private school to serve them… (how many private schools are available throughout rural SC or the Corridor of Shame???). Still others will lack of funds to make up the difference in tuition between public and private cost. And the elements that allow private schools perform better – picky admission standards & an upper middle class upbringing – would dissolve. In addition, except for the very best of them, there is plenty of evidence to show that private schools don’t necessarily perform any better than public schools. Public schools still turn out great students who go on to do great things. It really seems that rather than improve our education system, Republicans want to create a system that abandons those who need the help in favor of those who are doing just fine.
By Dixie May 26, 2011 at 9:49 am
It’s why bright kids are held back, so the ones who do not care, w/ partent who do not care, can “Catch Up.” And that, of course NEVER happens…
Again: Forcing kids to stay in the gutter (and pay exorbitantly for it) is no way to address the ‘EQUALITY’ you hideous mouthpieces espouse
You know, I might have bought into this argument, if I had never gone to a public high school.Teachers and educators realized long ago that no matter how much they pushed and shoved, they could never force every student to graduate Magna. This was not their fault. It is just a fact of life that all people are not born with the same abilities. So what did they do? They segregated classrooms along lines of achievement, potential and student needs for the future.
When I went to high school these classes were called college preparatory. What this did is give the brighter (not the most advantaged at home) a chance to compete with students considered their peers. For the other students, it gave them the chance to get an education that would allow them to become productive members of society by allowing them an education that matched vocational needs, while not making them feel inferior – which is what would happen if they had to compete in the classroom with the brightest students in the school. There were tests used as tools for identifying where a student needed to be, but the door was never closed for anybody that wanted to give the more rigorous curriculum a try.
Please give the public educators and teachers credit for realizing this and coming up with a system that would meet the needs of all the students. And for your information, they did this early on, as I graduated from high school in 1965.
What you Voucher people like to do is take something like “dropout rate” and raise it as red herring as to why we should be willing to destroy an education system that has served us well for so many years. Dropout rate has nothing to do with the quality of education coming out of an institution. Goals and expectations originate at home, and there will probably never be a cure for laziness. But these are not reasons to gut the public school system for a system that makes it easier for the privileged to send their kids to private school. The public education system has proven itself over the years to be a system that adequately provides for the needs for all students, and many studies have shown when certain factors beyond what could reasonably be considered the responsibility of the public school are factored out, there is no difference in the quality of education that comes from the private versus public institution.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 10:04 am
How much money has gone to hire more administrators in the last 25 years? Answer: Exponential.
It’s like everything else. Liberals have told us over and over, if we give them what they demand, they can fix the problem. If we don’t we’re ignorant animals who deserve to stay backwards.
We have held up our end of the deal, they have just failed more and more and proved more lost each year.
Now the liberals are against School Choice. Considering that Liberalism has failed, wouldn’t logic tell you to reject their pleading against school choice. Generations of Failure should not continue to wag the dog.
By Phil Jackson May 26, 2011 at 10:08 am
You already have “school choice.” You just want me to pay for it.
By FreeMarketMan May 26, 2011 at 10:16 am
All of these people arguing against school choice in K12 probably take advantage of the tax credit situation when they send their kids to college. lol. Hypocrites. What’s geting lost in this are the kids. It’s not about bricks and shingles and administrator salaries. It’s about the kids and what’s best for them. Nothing else. And as for the elitist “rich folks” argument, you’ve lost your mind. I’d bet 90 percent of the private schools in this state are small, christian private schools at local churches. They’re not all Heathwood or these other elitist private schools. So those points are invalid as well.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 10:20 am
Phil: You already have School Failure, and I’ve been Paying for it (exorbitantly) for years.
It’s time to let others have a shot at success. You had your chance, and blew it.
Quit being so Greedy and Controlling w/ money that belongs to someone else.
By Jim May 26, 2011 at 10:27 am
Hey Big T, I am as conservative as the next guy, and I run a business where I have to deal with sales people on a daily basis. So I know a BS sales pitch when I hear one.
No one is buying your conservative v. liberal, I’m really interested in the kids pitch. If you want to advocate for an end to public education, be a man and say so. At least that is intellectually honest.
Lets face it you don’t want to help pay for public education. OK. I don’t want to help pay for private education. Either we all pay for public education or we don’t. But don’t tell me I have to pay for public education but you don’t have to pay for public education.
Public schools are there for people who cannot afford to send their kids to private school or do not wish to. I accept that and I am willing to pay my share. But not if you aren’t going to pay your share. I think having no public education and a permanent underclass of uneducated poor people would be dangerous. But, if that’s what you want, fight for it.
But don’t play that stupid tired worn out conservative vs. liberal card, when you know this is all about money, as are most things. For god sake, just stop pretending you give a damn about some black child in Dillon, SC. No one believes that.
By PoorMichaelHaley May 26, 2011 at 10:38 am
Any of you fools screaming about how liberals “whine” and “have failed the state of SC” need to wake up. This state has a republican governor, a republican house, and a republican senate. SC has been controlled by conservatives for 20+ years.
This vote is republican leadership telling you this school choice bill is BS. Vouchers won’t help anybody but the rich.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 10:45 am
Jim: Usually when I hear that impassioned plea to not make it a ‘liberal’ issue, it’s because you know if you are ‘outed’ (details of your ideology are exposed) you LOSE..
Not to mention: You claim I am trying to denounce public education. Either know you are lying, or you are not too bright.
I’m saying: if the people are paying for it (the closed-minded liberals like you along w/ the open-minded, like me) then we should have some say-so and/or alternatives. You are advocating the FORCING of cookie-cutter failure.
You people have Totally Controlled education for decades. You have gotten everything you asked for, yet your failure rate is still too high.
PS: If you are on the Conservative side (as you claim) and you are no more aware of the truth than you represent yourself to be, it is no wonder that public education is wrought w/ so much failure.
By screaming meemee May 26, 2011 at 10:48 am
Hey Christoper,
The word of the day is Sarcasm. Look it up.
By Rural County interest May 26, 2011 at 10:54 am
The SC High School League enrollment #’s are interesting to see population changes, and those #’s were released 2 weeks ago and are below. If you have knowledge of previous #’s and classifications, you’ll see the suburban schools growing, and the rural and urban schools shrinking. People are leaving rural areas to get to the suburbs/better schools. Long-time AAA schools in rural areas are continuing to turn into AA schools.
School choice and/or vouchers would give those individuals and communities with poor schools a better chance of succeeding. However, no choices and the great likelihood of no improvement in rural and urban schools means these population trends will continue at their rapid rates.
From the Spartanburg Herald web site
by AndyNYTRMG » Fri May 13, 2011 4:01 pm
Here are the 135-day numbers released today by the SCHSL. There’s a related story here: http://www.goupstate.com/article/201105 … 19812/1112
4A, 3A and 2A will be 52 schools, with 51 schools in 1A.
1 Wando 3493
2 Dorman 3194
3 Lexington 2841
4 Summerville 2762
5 Sumter 2324
6 Byrnes 2255
7 Boiling Springs 2238
8 Fort Dorchester 2225
9 Hillcrest 2127
10 Mauldin 2115
11 West Ashley 2086
12 Blythewood 2073
13 Spring Valley 2051
14 Gaffney 2041
15 Dutch Fork 2031
16 Ridge View 1995
17 Spartanburg 1952
18 Rock Hill 1922
19 Irmo 1915
20 Carolina Forest 1912
21 White Knoll 1903
22 Clover 1865
23 Stratford 1835
24 Ashley Ridge 1829
25 T L Hanna 1759
26 Northwestern 1718
27 West Florence 1694
28 Westside 1669
29 Woodmont 1634
30 Goose Creek 1633
31 J L Mann 1633
32 Colleton County 1607
33 Beaufort 1598
34 Riverside 1597
35 Greenwood 1583
36 North Augusta 1578
37 South Florence 1570
38 Easley 1567
39 Wade Hampton 1552
40 Conway 1550
41 Lugoff-Elgin 1540
42 South Aiken 1515
43 Lancaster 1511
44 Ft Mill 1509
45 Nation Ford 1481
46 Bluffton 1479
47 Laurens 1475
48 South Pointe 1449
49 Cane Bay 1443
50 Aiken 1441
51 York 1440
52 Richland Northeast 1440
53 James Island Charter 1426
54 Socastee 1421
55 Pickens 1420
56 Greenville 1420
57 Hartsville 1404
58 Orangeburg- Wilkinson 1376
59 Darlington 1376
60 St James 1367
61 Wren 1358
62 Airport 1353
63 Lower Richland 1323
64 Chapin 1302
65 Berkeley 1281
66 North Myrtle Beach 1273
67 Wilson 1262
68 A C Flora 1259
69 Eastside 1250
70 Union County 1242
71 Travelers Rest 1240
72 Marlboro County 1219
73 Myrtle Beach 1216
74 Richland 2 School 1200
75 Crestwood 1197
76 Dreher 1181
77 Midland Valley 1178
78 Hilton Head 1174
79 Blue Ridge 1154
80 Lakewood 1146
81 Greer 1142
82 Brookland-Cayce 1130
83 Berea 1048
84 Belton Honea Path 1039
85 D W Daniel 1001
86 Walhalla 993
87 Georgetown 985
88 West-Oak 975
89 Camden 966
90 R B Stall 965
91 Seneca 962
92 Chapman 941
93 Hanahan 933
94 Southside 926
95 Swansea 922
96 Emerald 912
97 Chester 909
98 Palmetto 904
99 Gilbert 902
100 Clinton 893
101 Broome 889
102 Strom Thurmond 865
103 Manning 862
104 Woodruff 861
105 Fairfield-Central 857
106 Lake Marion 850
107 Lake City 846
108 Dillon 845
109 Pendleton 834
110 Loris 828
111 Battery Creek 822
112 Marion 803
113 Waccamaw 796
114 Timberland 769
115 Cheraw 766
116 Edisto 748
117 Keenan 747
118 Kingstree 745
119 Eau Claire 732
120 Garrett Academy 728
121 Newberry 724
122 Mid-Carolina 721
123 Columbia 720
124 Wade Hampton 718
125 Bishop England 712
126 Pelion 711
127 Carolina 702
128 Aynor 698
129 Silver Bluff 690
130 Crescent 685
131 Barnwell 673
132 Central 668
133 Indian Land 655
134 Liberty 655
135 Woodland 649
136 Chesnee 635
137 Lee Central 633
138 North Charleston 623
139 Andrew Jackson 615
140 Andrews 608
141 Academic Magnet 607
142 Saluda 598
143 Buford 567
144 Chesterfield 563
145 Batesburg-Leesville 552
146 Mullins 552
147 Landrum 549
148 Ridgeland 548
149 Blacksburg 546
150 Abbeville 535
151 Powdersville 500
152 North Central 484
153 Burke 481
154 Bamberg-Ehrhardt 466
155 Ninety-Six 457
156 Calhoun County 456
157 Latta 447
158 Johnsonville 439
159 C A Johnson 438
160 Allendale Fairfax 428
161 Carvers Bay 422
162 Greenville Tech Charter 418
163 Brashier Middle Charter 399
164 Whale Branch Early College 396
165 Lewisville 386
166 Hemingway 386
167 Green Sea-Floyds 353
168 Estill 341
169 St Joseph’s 339
170 Christ Church 328
171 Hannah-Pamplico 323
172 St Johns 322
173 Fox Creek 321
174 East Clarendon 320
175 Williston-Elko 318
176 Baptist Hill 318
177 Southside Christian 312
178 C E Murray 308
179 Ware Shoals 305
180 Lamar 304
181 Dixie 302
182 Wagener-Salley 299
183 Lake View 296
184 McBee 293
185 Hardeeville 292
186 Great Falls 289
187 Greer Middle College Chart 285
188 Ridge Spring-Monetta 266
189 McCormick 260
190 Military Magnet Academy 259
191 Scott’s Branch 250
192 Blackville-Hilda 243
193 Timmonsville 237
194 Denmark-Olar 235
195 Creek Bridge 217
196 Branchville 200
197 Hunter-Kinard-Tyler 192
198 Cross 192
199 Bethune-Bowman 189
200 Calhoun Falls Charter 182
201 Charleston Charter Math/Scien 165
202 North 161
203 Tamassee-Salem 139
204 Whitmire 135
205 SCSDB 135
206 Lincoln 107
207 Governors School of Math 100
By Jim May 26, 2011 at 11:06 am
Yes Big T, you have outed me. I am a liberal who has been running SCs public education system for years.
Enough said, you are a crappy salesman. Get off your lazy ass and get a better job that will pay you enough to send your kids to private school.
I’m not buying your BS.
By Bill May 26, 2011 at 12:10 pm
I’m stuck in a shitty district in the sticks…I send my kids to private school…and Jim, screw you and people like you that assume I’m lazy and want you to pay for my kid’s education. Take your “I’ve heard a sales pitch” crap and tell that to my daughter, who was trapped in a lousy school district that never bothered to correct her spelling, teach her to spell, and “pulled reading through Social Studies,” whatever the hell that means.
I bet, Jim, that you work your ass off for your business, live in Lexington or Richland County, and have a great school district. I don’t. I HAVE to send my children to private school or they won’t get an education worth a damn in the public schools of my county.
Is that what I’m paying taxes for? Nope, and I sure don’t pay them to make sure your district gets better while mine continues to get the shaft, and gets worse.
How’s that for a sales pitch, asshole?
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 12:23 pm
Jim’s “sales pitch:” I support failure and I’m demanding that you pay for it too. And if you disagree w/ me, you are a Lazy Ass.
PS: I may be a lousy salesman, but your inferior plan will collapse (already has) on itself.
Change is coming, Jim, and there is not a damn thing your stupid-ass can do to stop it. You’ve dumbed down too many kids as it is. Your time is coming to an end. And when you lose, it’s over for you.
By Huhhh??? May 26, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Does the SC Constitution address the subject of providing taxpayer funds for non-public education?
Would it need to in order to divert public school monies to non-public education?
By Soft Sigh from Hell May 26, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Well let’s see, someone is stuck in a lousy district out in the sticks.
What do conservatives tell others is analogous situations?
If it is unemployed people in the rustbelt they give the flippant, “Just move to some some state where there are more jobs.”
If it is poor and oppressed people in another nation with an unfriendly Muslim or leftist dictator it’s, “Just change your system, by force, but don’t move here [unless Cuba].”
If it is poor and oppressed people in another nation with a rightwing dictator it’s, “Quit griping, you are not that bad off.”
It’s never, “Here, can we help with some money, can we forgive some of your regular debts?”
I feel personally very sorry for parents in these situations, but not so much for those who have long supported the lousy political system that has given us wide areas of poor schools. This conservative state has NEVER highly valued public education. The big conservative businessmen who ran this state used to openly state that they didn’t want too good of an education system, even for whites. They didn’t want South Carolinians, writ large, “too good for the mills.”
Where is the insistent DEMAND to improve public education across the board?
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Huhh: If you’re a liberal, the LAST thing you want to do is pull the Constitution into this. If you had to vet policy by the Constitution, Liberals would be in sad shape.
Not to mention: I’m guessing (hoping) the SC Constitution allows for freedom to replace Failed Liberal Policies that cause suffering and ignorance among our children.
If not, we’ll need to change it, or stay Bass-Ackwards…
By Jim May 26, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Bill Buddy, that’s a much better pitch than Big T. Its honest frustration, and something people can work with. I don’t live in Richland or Lexington, but I live in a district with good schools. When I had a kid in public school, I commuted 80 miles a day so that I would live in a good school district. That allowed me to save money for college.
I don’t think your public schools should be shafted. I think they should be fixed. But I have no control over that, and this tax credit deal will not help your public schools or the kids who cannot afford to get out of them. It will help you, but you can obviously already afford private school.
Your daughter will be the greatful for the sacrifice you and your wife made for her education. However, she would not appreciate the sacrifice I would make by picking up a portion of your share of the cost of government. Of course you could also move to a good school district.
Is that what you are paying taxes for? You, like me, are paying taxes for a lot of things we do not benefit from. Like bridges in Charleston or Clemson University. If you can arrange for me not to pay taxes for anything I do not benefit from, I will gladly suppport your school tax credit.
By Jim May 26, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Big T, your sales pitch, “I want out of supporting public education, but I don’t want to let you out.”
We are all the same. Either we all pay or we all stop paying. I have no plan other than to vote for people I think are committed to making the public school systment better. Beyond that, it is beyond my control.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Jim: I think you are very represntative of the problems we face. You have a hard timne understanding a concept, if it strays from the plan you are fed from the media (and greedy, self-serving liberals.)
I always will, and always HAVE, supported public schools. I just think if I’m paying for something, and it is failing in some places, I’m all for trying another plan offered by people who have a success rate. Especially if the plan is superior to the plan that the people who fail have offered.
Again: To the Education DENIERS (Failures): Your day is coming. Just a matter of time
By Edward Gray May 26, 2011 at 3:39 pm
“Let me axe u sumthin?”, thats what my English teacher use to say to me in district 17 Sumter. That is exactly why we need school choice….
By Teacher May 26, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Edward Gray, you should the last word in this debate.
“Let me axe u sumthin?”, thats what my English teacher use to say to me in district 17 Sumter. That is exactly why we need school choice….
What else is there possibly to say?
By kc May 26, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Sorry, Big T. I’m not seeing any good arguments for initiating a massive new entitlement program for people who don’t need one.
By Big T May 26, 2011 at 6:18 pm
kc, It’s the epitome of Liberal Ignorance, and your rhetoric, to characterize the choice of a better school, for the people paying for it, as an entitlement.
It’s not new money being collected, it’s using the money being taken now in a more successful way.
Admit it: You people are just scared to death that someone will demonstrate how poor some of you are doing, w/ the ‘massive entitlement’ you are receiving.
By Picurn68 May 26, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Forget your meds today, Big T? Simmer down there, buddy.
By kc May 26, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Quoth Big T: “You people are just scared to death that someone will demonstrate how poor some of you are doing, w/ the ‘massive entitlement’ you are receiving.”
Wrong, fella. I’m not receiving anything. You, by contrast, want the state to dip into my wallet and give my money to you so you can send your kids to some unaccountable private school.
Sorry, I just won’t have it.
By baker May 26, 2011 at 7:45 pm
I dispute Will’s contention in the headline regarding the notion of “one size fits all.” Simply not true.
The range of activities and academic options, especially at the high school level, in public schools is really quite impressive.
If you’re a high school student in most public districts in SC, you can choose to play football or be in the orchestra — or both. You can take upper level math classes — AP in many cases — or not. You can take a very college prep curriculum or enroll in a range of technical and vocations classes. There is a huge range of possibilities for kids.
By David in Columbia May 27, 2011 at 2:00 am
And Edward Gray demonstrates another core issue at the heart of this matter – lots of you are looking for a backdoor path to re-segregate. Racism is among the top 3 unspoken reasons for pushing this voucher plan. Voucher lovers are straight up f’ing ignorant, though it’s hard to blame you. I truly understand why you feel like you do. It has a facade of logic. Unfortunately, enlightening you would take more work than I have time for here, and none of you would listen. I’m just glad the vote failed. Hopefully it will never pass.
By All Children Left Behind May 27, 2011 at 6:06 am
Nuttin could be finer then educrats and politicians protecting the status quo while thousands of children are forced to attend failed public schools. I love South Carolina!
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By meatfolly July 12, 2011 at 7:52 pm
The writer is deluded. Killing that bill does not affect school choice one iota. The only reason I’m surprised it didn’t pass is because it’s another tax break for rich or upper income folks and I thought those people in the house were all about keeping them happy. Also, non-profit agencies and schools currently provide tuition assistance.
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