The Confederate Flag Debate Is Back!
Just like that, the on-again, off-again debate about the Confederate flag is back “on.”
Democratic gubernatorial candidate Mullins McLeod has poured gasoline on the highly-flammable subject by including the flag’s removal from the State House grounds in his jobs plan, which was unveiled Thursday.
“It is time for us to send a clear and unambiguous signal to the rest of the country, and the entire world, that South Carolina is better than what people see on the news, and that we are ready to make progress,” McLeod said in a statement announcing his plan. “By agreeing to move past this old argument once and for all, we will be telling the world that South Carolina is ready to lead again.”
McLeod wants to take the flag off the State House grounds and place it in a museum.
In 2000 – after a long and bitter debate – a bipartisan, multiracial coalition of state lawmakers agreed to remove the flag from the State House dome and place it behind a Confederate soldiers’ monument on the State House grounds. The flag was also removed from the S.C. House and State Senate chambers as a part of that compromise, which included the creation of a Martin Luther King, Jr. and Confederate Memorial holiday.
Still, that wasn’t enough for the NAACP (or the NCAA), both of which are continuing to boycott South Carolina over the flag.
Flag supporters, by contrast, were largely pleased with the compromise, and printed up bumper stickers and T-shirts that read “Off the Dome and In Your Face.”
McLeod’s foray into the flag debate is noteworthy because it will likely force the other candidates in the 2010 governor’s race to take a position on the issue. For example, we can’t wait to see what GOP frontrunner Henry McMaster – who is a member of a “whites only” country club and debutante society – has to say on the subject.
The first serious push to remove the flag began in the mid-1990’s under the administration of Republican Governor David M. Beasley, who later claimed that God came to him in a dream and urged him to take the flag off of the State House dome.
Funny, huh?
Beasley’s support for removing the flag cost him dearly, however, as a “Keep The Flag, Dump Beasley” movement quickly gained steam and helped contributed to his 1998 defeat.
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Comments
By CNSYD on November 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
McLeod and his candidacy are a joke. Whoever wins the GOP primary will be the next Governor. Now so of these idiots want to delete all things named Tillman because he had “racist” views. I guess we ought to delete Jefferson also since he owned slaves.
By Caleb Parker on November 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
In Alabama, as in most Southern states, we have a Confederate Flag flying at the Confederate monument beside the statehouse. We also have a massive statue of President Jefferson Davis to the left of the portico and a bronze star where he took the oath of office at on the front steps. No one has been kicking up about that down here.
Why don’t they put a measure on the ballot next year to keep the flag where it is at or move it to a museum (which I think is a stupid idea, because they have Confederate flags in museums already)?
Seriously, look at the other states surrounding South Carolina. You will find that most, if not all, probably have flags on the statehouse grounds at their Confederate monuments.
By Michael Rodgers on November 19th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
It’s not a litmus test, and there are more options than you’ve put on your poll. The issue now is how to take the last crucial and tiny step to bring our state in line with any of our neighboring states (I suggest NC) on this issue.
The issue in the 1990’s was a litmus test on what the Confederate flag means, and as a state we decided that we can and should honor the Confederate soldiers by flying the flag they carried. That’s what the “compromise” did.
Now the issue is the economy. We must compete with our neighboring states and internationally in a global marketplace. With regard to the Confederate flag, are we doing something different from our neighboring states, and does it help us or hurt us?
The answers are that we are doing something different and that this difference hurts us economically. Of all the southern states, only South Carolina and Mississippi have NCAA bans. Of all the southern states, only South Carolina has a NAACP boycott.
We can honor the Confederate soldiers and the flag they carried and improve our economy by ending the confusion about the Confederate flag. We can do all this and send the most important message that South Carolina is open for business.
In SC, we should choose to do something very similar to what NC does. We should fly the Confederate flag to honor the Confederate soldiers only on Confederate Memorial Day. On all other days we should fly our state flag instead of the Confederate flag.
The bill that we should reintroduce and pass is 2007-2008’s H-3588, the Fly Our State Flag bill. This bill brings us in line with our neighboring states and sends clear messages 1) that the Confederate flag, the Confederate soldiers, and Confederate Memorial Day should be honored and respected and 2) South Carolina is open for business.
By Michael Rodgers on November 19th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
The (three) flags (from the house and senate chambers and from atop the dome) already went to a museum in 2000. That was a big, excellent achievement (a museum is not a hiding place, but an exhibiting place). The current flag is made of nylon and needn’t go to a museum. We should fly an authentic Confederate flag, and we should do so only on Confederate Memorial Day. On all other days we should fly our state flag.
By RedBank Bar on November 19th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
The South Carolina swastika…
It’ll bring mouth-breathing Repugnants to the barricades.
By JR on November 19th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
If I had a vote in South Carolina, McLeod would have just earned it.
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Redbank…A Swastika is a socialist symbol.Shouldn’t you have that flying over your house??…
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I have not really missed the NAACP.I guess the boycott works, out of sight out of mind.
By Brandon on November 19th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
This may only be a rumor, but I heard McLeod was from a whites only family.
By Bobby on November 19th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I’m not voting for McCleod in the primary, but the kind of leadership he is offering on this issue is the kind of leadership South Carolina needs right now. Why continue throwing hundreds of millions of dollars down the drain for the sake of making a point?
By Matt on November 19th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Hey, I guess when you have a name like Mullins McLeod–which pretty much screams “rich Southern white boy”–you’ve got to come up with some way to get black voters to vote for you if you ever expect to win a Democratic primary…
By political hack on November 19th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
History books have brainwashed generations of Americans on the issues of the causes of the Civil War, and the powers behind the scenes that were far more sinister than what is seemingly associated with the Confederate battle flag. Ironically, the same powers who backed the Confederate cause financially now run the nation as their financial oligarchy has effectively commandered Wall Street since about 1913, and these same oligarchs want nothing more than to promote financial slavery over our entire nation, soon the world, and have been doing it before our very eyes for 100 years. The Battle flag should represent the power of rebellion against a corrupt and tyrannical government, that although was previously unsuccessful, still remains a viable option of last resort for the general welfare of whatever is left the United States society.
By CNSYD on November 19th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Michael Rodgers, I am sure Boeing spent a total of a nano second discussing the flag before they decided to come to SC. Money talks and your line of BS walks. Are you so naive to think your “solution” will chaange anything? Do what you say and the NAACP will be back tomorrow with more demands.
JR, since you don’t have a vote you are either a felon or a resident of another state. Stay out of our business.
By Ynot on November 19th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
This issue is recycled when pols don’t want to address the ” real” issues.
By I'm not sayin'...I'm just sayin' on November 19th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
While I’d love to have NCAA come, I haven’t missed (AT ALL) the NAACP!
By RedBank Bar on November 19th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
LFM, exhibit A, “mouth breathing Repugnant”
When you graduate from Jefferson lee Jackson Hammond Beauregard Segregation Academy, it’s understandable why the ignorance would be palpable. I must say for someone who can’t define the term socialism, you certainly throw it around a lot.
By Cooter Brown on November 19th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Dat boy jest committedd politickal suicide.
Th’ flag iz a goiin’ nowhare an’ th’ furst t’ try will lern a verie dificult lesson, folks…
It aint 2000 no mo. Weeze dun made a compromize an’ dat’s it!
P.S. – I’s sho iz glad dat Boeing an’ all dem yankee jobs dat came wit it didn’t heer ’bout dat flag, aint ye? Why, we’d ov lost “hundreds of millions of dollars.” Aint dat rite Mista Bobby?
By Nathan Earle on November 19th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Ditto, Matt. Mullins McLeod is just a good ol’ race baiter looking to generate some steam for his campaign. If he was really interested in jobs for South Carolinians, he wouldn’t be ripping open old wounds, he would be trying to do something constructive.
By cfd007 on November 19th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
We don’t need any lawyers running our state.
By Caleb Parker on November 19th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Michael Rogers, we were able to get Mercedes, Honda, Hyundai, Thyssen Krump (sp?) and a slew of other major corporations to come into Alabama with our Confederate Flag at the Confederate Monument on the statehouse grounds. Heck South Carolina was able to get Bosche and BMW with it on top of the statehouse in Columbia. I really don’t think that corporations give any considerations to what flags are flown on the statehouse grounds, especially if it is being flown at monument commerating the dead. The flag is not the reason behind South Carolina not getting jobs. Look to Georgia they have a Confederate National Flag as their state flag and is it hurting jobs? Is is causing boycotts?
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
REDBANK….I thought we had this discussion.I asked you to state whether you were a socialist or not.You would not say yeah or nay.So you cant say because you don’t know what it is ??or you think you will be exposing yourself…???.I have stated I am a LIBERTARIAN…why wont you state what political ideas you base your comments on???????????????????????.
By JR on November 19th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I am a resident of another state but I am from South Carolina and I keep up with the issues in the elections. I am free to comment on the business of the state if I please, thank you.
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
CNSYD…WOW,I can’t beleve I agree with you on something again…This makes two times.AHHHHH ,you aint so bad after all
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I think if most people were honest…They would concur this is about making a statement of individualism and pride of Country(state).To me,the part South Carolina played in the revolutionary war is much more important than the Civil War.They both were about liberty..Too many want to make it about slavery and not Lincolns totalitarianism.He was the worst president we ever had.One of the main reasons why we are in the mess we are in today>If it was about slavery he could have paid to set them all free…
When you try to demean the flag of the Confederacy you insult peoples pride and since of Liberty….
By Frank on November 19th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Jakie Knotts is a huge supporter of this most disturbing flag. Let’s get him and other like him out of office so we as a state can move forward instead of living in the past of a civil war we did not win nor should have been part of.
By Katherine Jenerette on November 19th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
If all things related to the Confederacy and our South Carolina history associated with secession are political footballs lets really see where some of these political heavyweights come down on the South Carolina State Flag that flies from the Capitol Dome – it is the National Flag of the Republic of South Carolina:
On December 20, 1860, when South Carolina declared its right of Independence the Federal Union, a national flag was needed. The General Assembly considered a wide range of designs and on January 28, 1861 added the palmetto tree to Col. Moultrie’s original Revolutionary War flag. The tree symbolized the colonial victory of Sullivan’s Island palmetto-log fort against the British in June 1776 and the new design became the National Flag of the Republic of South Carolina.
As for me, for very different reasons than in 1860 but with as much necessity I make a proposal: We need to burn every bridge between South Carolina and that big Federal Government in Washington, DC. Starting with Federal Income Tax and Federal Medicine and burn-baby-burn from there…it will be a big fire – Federalist slash Socialists like Nancy Pelosi and Obama don’t know where to draw the line without being shown.
That’s all for now.
Katherine
At Fort Bragg named in Honor of West Point Graduate Confederate General Braxton Bragg
And Alumni of Fort Benning Airborne School named in honor of Confederate General Henry Benning
P.S. Political Boys, Watch how many Southern Icons you want to tear down for political reasons – it might surprise you how much you would have to change to make everybody happy.
By Richard on November 19th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
One simple question: If you have ever recited the PLEDGE of ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, how can you at the same time defend the promotion of a flag that represented an attempt to tear apart that same UNITED STATES of AMERICA?
By Katherine Jenerette on November 19th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Sorry, should read:
On December 20, 1860, when South Carolina declared its right of Independence from the Federal Union, a national flag was needed.
By Just another Joe on November 19th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Did you flunk history Liberty? Or are you just that ignorant?
By Billy Bob on November 19th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Beasley was half-right. It was Bob Royall that told him to take it down – - and Bob thinks he’s god!!!
By SnakeMD on November 19th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Hell, if the South would have won the Civil War we would all be driving Lee’s instead of Lincolns! Next to my Bible is a picture of Jeb Stuart. I listen to Lynard Skynard every day, rain or shine. And I can whistle Dixie, and I still have all my teeth. Why should SC cave in to political correctness?
By CNSYD on November 19th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Frank, you have been taken in by the Thaddeus Stevens version of history. It was not a “civil war”. A civil war by definition is between regions or factions of the same country. Since the CSA was a separate country it was not a “civil war”. That is pure Yankee propaganda. Should the war never had been fought? Well if you wanted the entire South completely subjugated to the North you could have stood by and done nothing.
By BIN News Editorial Staff on November 19th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
As our Funding Editor was slurping her evening Metamucil and Jack Daniels cocktail, she sputtered:
“Who in the rush-limbuger-rotten-cheese-smell is Mullins McLoudmouth?”
“And, why is sic(k) willie pimping him?”
Simple. Political pimps bond together.
You know. Like that sticky cat litter that holds everything together.
Same concept. Pimps are like that.
The Confederate Flag issue is done.
Just ask Jakie. Ask John. Ask Joe.
Ask Bobbie. Ask Glenn.
Ask any other responsible member of the Legislature.
If you can find one. There are a few others.
BIN News Editorial Staff
Flair and Balanced
By Billy Bob on November 19th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
A few points for the illiterate mob.
Nazi’s were as far from Socialists as you can get. Like everything else about their propaganda, they were nothing but facist pigs – - the exact opposite of socialists.
I went to a white segregationist academy – in fact, the granddaddy of them all, Prince Edward Academy. Yet, I can read the articles of succession and see it was clearly about the states right – the only “right” though was the right to own slaves. So, say what you want, the f*nkin’ whole thing was about slavery.
By Soft Sigh From Hell on November 19th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
“Mercedes, Honda, Hyundai, Thyssen Krump (sp?)
Interesting. All from formerly racist fascist countries (OK, Hyundai from a formerly quasifascist one and not notoriously racist). Maybe Alabama seemed a bit like home.
Herr Thyssen bankrolled Hitler and Herr Krupp was charged with Nazi war crimes I believe.
By CNSYD on November 19th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Billy Bob, you do understand the term “for example” don’t you? In the SC articles slavery was used as EXAMPLE of willful violation of the US Constitution by the Northern states. Ammendment 10 to the US Constitution still exists and it is still rountinely ignored by the Federal Government.
By madcock on November 19th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Flying the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia where it is the first thing you see as you approach the South Carolina Statehouse is perfectly logical and appropriate.
The far right fascists who called themelves Nazis and murdered anyone suspected of left-leaning politics in Germany were really liberals.
The fact that the introduction to the South Carolina Ordinance of Secession states clearly that the purpose of the secession was to preserve slavery from the federal government’s abolition does nothing to disprove the modern day Republican-Confederate’s propoganda that the Civil War was all about freedom.
Katherine Jenerette will actually win an election one day. Maybe, dog-catcher.
And the New Deal caused the Great Depression.
Just swallow the Jim DeMint kool-aid and call me in the morning.
By Billy Bob on November 19th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
For D.A. above – - Lincoln had not even been sworn in when SC seceeded. How could his “presidency” been the cause?????????????????????????????????????????
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Katherine Jenerette …..I love you…..
A woman with that much depth is soooo sexy..
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Billy Bob you are a complete idiot….You have no idea what you are talking about.The Nazis where the National socialist party..They were Facists, which is a for of socialism.The other form is communism….and your form is stupidism..
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Richard..do me a favor and look up the history of the pledge of alligence…..just a little bit of weird Nazi history for you……Read some books and learn what our history really is..You might start singing a different tune
By Liberty For Me on November 19th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Billy Bob….So you think people in 2009 are upset because they are pro -slavery and they want a flag to represent that??..another great in-depth thought you have….The only thing that is pro-slavery today is socialism.
It keeps people enslaved and dependent on government….God..please read a book and see past your nose.
By What's So Civil About War? on November 19th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Best EVA clip on tghe flag debate from SC’s own Steven Cobert
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-21-2002/civil-whites
That’s progress!
By lauren on November 19th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Down with the flag!
Let’s re-name Fort Jackson to Fort Pelosi.
Let’s re-name Fort Lee in VA to Fort Obama.
Let’s re-name Fort Benning to Fort Boxer.
Let’s re-name Fort Stuart to Fort Waxman.
Let’s re-name Fort Hood to Fort Frank.
Let’s re-name Fort Hill to Fort Biden.
It’s high-time to re-make America!
Yes we can!
By JR on November 19th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Why are people so proud of their heritage of fighting for a country that tried to overthrow this country’s government? I am just confused about the people who want to keep honoring the confederacy yet say they are proud Americans as the other person who said it earlier. Also, the whole “war of northern aggression” argument is bunk! Who fired the first shots? I think it was the confederacy unless I’m gravely mistaken.
By JR on November 19th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Should say just as confused, sorry.
By Soft Sigh From Hell on November 19th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Heck the flag practically pales next to monuments for loathsome Tilman and slave-mutilator Sims.
By OhNoNotAgain on November 19th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
THis will be your most commented thread.
Sigh.
“A Swastika is a socialist symbol. Shouldn’t you have that flying over your house??…”
A swastika was a symbol of a lot of things BEFORE Hitler took it as a symbol for the NATIONAL SOCIALIST party in Germany. The fact that you try to throw it out as a “socialist” symbol shows how ignorant you are.
Some info you will no doubt reject because it’s true –
It is a totalitarian ideology.
“Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right,”says Wikipedia.
By Retired SC L.E.O. on November 19th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
My family has deep roots to SC as far back as the 1600s. They came here as indentured servants to the King of England but I don’t cringe every time I see the British flag. I had more than a dozen ancestors who fought for the Confederate forces and not one owned a slave. They fought along side blacks because of unreasonable tariffs, taxation without representation and federal gov. abuse. Over the years the confederate flag has been tainted by groups for their own agenda. The Confederate flag is nothing to be ashamed of and never should have been taken down from its original location. The flag reminds me of my family that came before me that fought for their homes, farms and their way of life. People who don’t learn from history tend to repeat it. That’s why it should remain where it’s flown today.
Today, 7:24:43 PM
By duffy91 on November 20th, 2009 at 12:47 am
Good grief, Charlie Brown, don’t you have anything else to say? The issue is dead. The flag flies on a monument. Our State has sooooooooooo many other issues that deserve your breath and the energy that operates my optical nerve. If you were so concerned about South Carolina, perhaps you could consider why our high school drop out rate is so deplorable and those who graduate do not understand the concept of supply and demand or a coherent paragraph. South Carolina produces some incredibly talented and hard working individuals, but we also produce social parasites, and we need to address at the most basic level — parents. Leadership is required on a larger social and governmental scale. We need economic stimulation and educational goals. We do not need patronizing race-bating that exploits the insecurities of people who really just need economic opportunity and educational excellence.
By Ducky on November 20th, 2009 at 1:31 am
I LOVE this North vs. South shit…
It doesn’t matter why the war started or ended…
Politics has nothing to do with it…
The only thing that matters is that the south fought under the confederate flag, and suffered a humiliating loss…
But the people of the south keep glorifying their loss by naming buildings and schools after the losers of the war…
Jefferson “LOSER” Davis high school,
Robert E. “LOSER” Lee…
Proof that having sex w/ family members doesn’t work…
You should try that rainbow gay-ass flag…At least then the PC Nazis would help you…
By duffy91 on November 20th, 2009 at 1:35 am
Regarding U.S. history, South Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi organized and planned secession conventions in the event that Republican candidate Abraham Lincoln was elected in November, 1860. On December 20, 1860, S.C. unanimously voted to secede. Alabama and Mississippi followed quickly thereafter along with Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas with supermajorities. It would be safe to say that the Lincoln was the cause for their secession (not succession). They believed that secession was their only choice if they were to thrive. That point is not up for debate. It is well established.
All the other crap y’all are arguing about is so retarded I can’t even believe it. The difference between socialism and communism is that socialists advocate state-controlled means of production of anything and fascists advocate extreme nationalism to the point of believing in mythical “racial purity.” Fascists did not have an economic theory. Extreme socialism is communism. Communism and fascism both suppress the individual and are totalitatarian systems. All of this European political theory bullshit has NOTHING to do with the Confederacy or the battle flag that flies over the Confederate monument. In my opinion, as humble as it may be, the First National Confederate flag, “Stars and Bars”, should be flying over the monument.
Where the U.S. went egregiously wrong was during Reconstruction. Once the freed slaves and free blacks became citizens, they should have been given full civil rights. A citizen is citizen. Period. They weren’t, and that is where political leaders failed.
If the Federalists-National Republicans-Whigs-American Republicans-Liberty Party-Lincoln’s Republican Party-Roosevelt, Johnson, Clinton-Obama Democratic Party believes that the central government knows what’s best for the individual better than the individual, then we are doomed because the central government has no check on their power. If we become dependent on what they say we need, that is modern paternalism. It the battered wife syndrome. The Stockholm Syndrome. It takes the individual to stand up and resist the dominance of the powerful. The powerful does not act for the good of the individual. The powerful acts for the good of the powerful. That’s the whole freakin’ point behind the check and balances in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. It is basic American history, the same basic American history that is no longer required on the college level. Most high school students graduate without the understanding of how a bill is passed through Congress, much less Lockean political theory and Montequieu’s theory of seperation of power of Calhoun’s theory of nullification. The presidency was explicity designed to prevent the tyranny of a cult of personality, but it has been perverted. George Washington could have easily assumed the role of a monarch, but he was a republican and believed in the power of a moderate representative government. Power flows up, not down. That’s consent of the people. It is a careful balance between the individual and the whole, so that neither deprives the other of liberty.
By Jack Steven Dempsey on November 20th, 2009 at 4:10 am
I think that this infidel will find it impossible to persuade the righteous people of South Carolina to forsake their Confederate ancestors.
By Red Bank Bar on November 20th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Katherine J wants to abolish Medicare and the VA Hospital system because they’re “socialist”.
She just doesn’t have the guts to say it directly.
LFM is the poster boy for ignorance here, unable to define socialism and certainly unable to recognize it.
South Kackalacky wasn’t for “state rights” and neither were any of the other feudal societies known as the American South. It’s readily apparent no one has ever read the Articles of Secession. SLAVERY was the only cause and SC hated “states rights”. Northern states abolished slavery and refused to return runaway slaves. SC demanded the federal government step in and force states to return runaway slaves. The confederacy of treason hated states rights.
Go back to your Faux News world, wingnuts, you’ll feel better. Us reality-based Democrats will keep governing America for the next generation while y’all listen to Lyin’ Sarah Palin and Orly Tates Limbaugh.
By Soft Sigh From Hell on November 20th, 2009 at 6:42 am
“Let’s re-name Fort Jackson . . .
Let’s re-name Fort Lee ”
Are you sure these are not for Andy and Light Horse Harry?
By Just the Facts Ma'am on November 20th, 2009 at 6:45 am
If we take the flag down all will be right with the world and equality will reign. Our South Carolina native Jessie Jackson’s philosophy will be the standard by which we all live and are judged. Political correctness and blind party loyalty such as Jackson’s “you can’t be black and vote against health care” will show us the way. Oh yes, there are so many reasons to want to follow the way of the NAACP. After all, who wants to be free and think for themselves when we can all “unite for social justice.”
By okie on November 20th, 2009 at 7:00 am
The state of Oklahoma has a flag plaza adjacent to the state capitol. In 1988, the Legislature approved a bill which mandated the display of the 14 flags that have flown over Oklahoma territories. It called for one of the flags flown to be the Confederate States of America Flag of 1861 to 1865. As a result, the Confederate Battle Flag was flown on the Capitol grounds. Amid protests, the battle flag was removed and the 14th flagpole has remained bare since 1988. There remains a disgruntled group of people that believe the empty flagpole is just as bad as displaying the flag itself. No matter what action is taken, the NAACP and its allies will never be satisfied.
By Cooter Brown on November 20th, 2009 at 8:06 am
I lub our confederate flag cause I hates th’ the forced yankee union.
I hates th’ union because they invaded the sovereign state ov South Carolinie an’ my fathas fit ‘em wit all dey had.
I hates th’ yankee nashun ’cause dey made wahr on womens, childuns, an’ old mens.
I hates ‘em because dey preserved nuthin’ an’ destroyed th’ constitutshun ov th’ foundas.
I hates ‘em ’cause dey iz an empire ov lies an’ we still live in a werld made possibly by th’ policies of King Lincoln.
I hates ‘em cause afta surrenda, dey declared us outta th’ union (th’ verie thing for wich we fite ‘em) an’ instituted military distriucts.
I hate ‘em an’ we can neva, eva solve anie ov our problem wit dem regulatin’, taxin, and sendin’ our young’un t’ die in foreign lan’s fer deir empire!
Az long as our flag flies, we will rememba dat dere wuz once a people dat sayed “NO!” t’ Warshingtun! Sumethang naught a one of ye are a willin’ t’ say eben though ye knows in yer hears dat IT IZ TH’ ONLIE WAY!
If’n weeze free az Amerikans, den why does we oppose almost eberythang th’ fedral gobmint does an’ dey does it anieway?
If’n weeze free, whie iz deir naught ONE constitushunal law come outta Warshingtun DC fer 150 years?
It aint whie th’ South left da Union (we outta leave NOW), th’ REEL questshun iz WHIE TH’ YANKEES INVADED, WHIE dey OCCUPIED, an’ WHIE dey still hab deir boot on our necks!
Stand tall, ye slaves ov politikal corectness, an’ speek da truf! We iz stranga in our own land an’ slaves t’ less dan 500 tyrants in Warshingtun!
Tu ne cede malis, peoples!
By Liberty For Me on November 20th, 2009 at 8:37 am
OhNoNotAgain…..”Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right”………..What does right and left mean in this context???I would love to know what you think….
“A swastika was a symbol of a lot of things BEFORE Hitler took it as a symbol for the NATIONAL SOCIALIST party in Germany. The fact that you try to throw it out as a “socialist” symbol shows how ignorant you are”……….So you are saying since the nazi symbol was used before the third reich..that it dosent represent nazism when it is flown now??
By Liberty For Me on November 20th, 2009 at 8:43 am
REDBANK>>>>Just answer the question.What political theory do you base your comments on?????why cant you answer that????…..I dont think you should comment on this sight or any other if you are so shallow or afraid of yourself that you can not answer a simple question.
Just for you AGAIN>>>>>>
Socialism….
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
By Cooter Brown on November 20th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Q: Whut does da flag means?
A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp3pRiw9aQk (I AM THEIR FLAG parformed bye H.K. Edgerton)
By "It Kids" DFHS on November 20th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Seriously we need to stop worrying about this “already” decided issue and focus on figuring out where Arizona’s 15th Congressional District, 30 ghost jobs, and $761,420 went.
http://www.washingtonpost.com
Accounting for stimulus jobs
By CNSYD on November 20th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Red Bank Bar, I have read the SC Articles, have you? You do understand the concept of an example don’t you? Return of slaves was the example SC used to show how the North had routinely ignored the law. Therefore SC had no desire to continue to be part of a union which, in the words of an old Charleston expression, was King Street, i.e. one way. I suppose in your “thinking” the Colonies were also treasonist as they rebelled against the crown. I suggest you read the 10th Ammendment. You and your Demo brethren have violated that for years. BTW was the Bluffton Movement about slavery? Please explain to me why dirt farmers from the upcountry who owned no slaves fought on the side of the CSA. They could have done a West Virginia if they thought it was all about slavery, an institution in which they were not participants.
By fitslies on November 20th, 2009 at 10:33 am
The cross of st. andrew flag is the controversy, not just any confederate flag. It is also associated with racism. We can’t run from history, however, we can be more historically correct. Put up a flag on that flag pole that represents the first national flag of the confederacy that flew in South Carolina. No more racism controversy, it is more historically correct (hey, it started here! and why should anyone run away from their history), and everyone in the state gets to learn more about all of the flags that flew over the capital building. Put up a visitor information kiosk that shows all the flags, when they flew, what was their use (hey, there was a naval ensign!), etc.
By Myles Keogh on November 20th, 2009 at 10:35 am
The State of Hawai’i’s flag has a Union Jack in it. The Union Jack is a symbol of tyrannical British rule and genocide in Ireland. As a Catholic and an American ciitizen of Irish decent I am offended by the Union Jack. The flag of Hawaii needs to be either removed and replaced or permanently taken down because it is offensive to me. Until that happens I am calling for a boycott of the state of Hawai’i. I will ask the Ancient Order of Hibernians to lead this effort and will promote it through every Catholic dioceses in the country. I will even go to the NCAA and ask them to remove Sheraton Hawaii Bowl and have no teams visit the University of Hawai’i. The same for the NFL and the Pro Bowl.
BTW I have friends who are Native American’s. The United States government took away their lands, put them on socialist utopian reservations, murdered thousands of their ancestors, detroyed their culture, introduced alcoholism to them and left them to rot. As a friend of many Native American I feel I can speak on their behalf. The Flag of the Untited States is symbol of genocide. It needs to be removed or replaced by another flag.
The above is a demonstration of absurdity by being absurd.
If you do the above it won’t stop with a our national flag, a confederate battle flag on the state capital or even a Union Jack in a state flag. That has already been demonstrated by miscreants who every Christmas are “offended” by Christmas Nativity scenes that they demand be removed. We are already sliding down a slippery slope. That slide will be demonstated more by the removal of these flags.
By Just another Joe on November 20th, 2009 at 10:36 am
The more Yankees and foreigners that move into SC for work will eventually change the state’s culture. Might take a generation or two, but it will happen. It is happening now. The ability to speak and understand Spanish is a major plus factor in applying for low paying service jobs already. Once all the white folk’s blood is infused with Yankee and Hispanic blood the Myth of the Confederacy will fade away along with the flay that flies over the Confederate monument.
By CNSYD on November 20th, 2009 at 10:49 am
fitslies, you are wrong, again. The Cross of St. Andrew is best known for its use on the flag of Scotland. It is part of the flag of the United Kingdom which combines it with the cross of St. George. It is also on the flag of the state of Florida. So how is it controversal?
By CNSYD on November 20th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Just another Joe, “Myth”? You mean it never really happened? Interesting.
By Politics Rocks (Michael Reese) on November 20th, 2009 at 10:55 am
@Katherine J,
As “hot” as you are, you prove to be a bigger redneck than (R) Candidate for Governor Henry McMaster.
Opening line on your webpage – “Katherine Jenerette is a U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War Operation Desert Storm and a graduate of the University of South Carolina, Coastal Carolina with a Masters Degree from USC, Columbia. She has served as a Field Representative for the 1st Congressional District, South Carolina.”
Ha! Your whole biography is 100% socialistic. You keep insinuating that the government can’t get anything right. How about the biggest government project of all… the United States Armed Forces? Are you talking smack about the military? A sociliastic program that you once served in? If you don’t love the government and our sociliastic military, why don’t you get the hell out? Why don’t all of the Republicans quit their government jobs at once to show how much they hate the government? (Maybe this is what Sarah Palin was doing? Maybe you’re trying to be the next Sarah Palin?)
Since you love throwing out dates and giving us a history lesson, let me throw out a date or year for you. 1962 … the SC all white legislature voted to place the confederate flag on the statehouse …… some say it was to rub in the faces of the African Americans due to the civil rights movement picking up steam. KJ … The flag never should have been put up there to begin with and you, me, and everybody else knows it.
And … did you really say “Burn, baby burn?” Did a candidate for a US House seat really say this? I’ll be sure to listen to “The Trammps” version of the song after your defeat next year. – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M
By RedBank Bar on November 20th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Good for you, LFM, you can cut-and-paste from a dictionary. Looks like you flunk comprehension though as none of those circumstances are present in the US now.
My philosophy? How about reality based rule of law based primarily upon the Constitution, as amended, and construed pursuant to Marbury v Madison?
I am pleased to see the “state’s rights” argument has already been tossed under the bus. South Carolina and the treasonous confederacy were full-throated advocates of expanded government and federal preemption of state’s rights. They DEMANDED the federal government override state’s rights. When they didn’t get their way, they committed treason against the United Stated and tried to overthrow the United States government.
By Katherine Jenerette on November 20th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Dear South Carolina Political Boys and your new-slash-old POLITCAL FLAG FOOTBALL:
What a stupid fight this is: The truth is that the American Civil War and that Flag is not so simple to slice it into a black and white issue. Brothers fought brother, Irish fought Irish, Jewish Confederates fought Jewish Union soldiers, and there were Confederate Native American units as well as Hispanic Confederates and Black Americans that served on both sides of that war. Complexity is central to the issues that led to that terrible war and complexity continued right into the conduct of that war. It remains complex to this day.
But let’s look at some primary documents from 1862 – the key paragraph is number 2 – note the target year to abolish slavery was ‘A.D. 1900’ – and Lincoln re-affirmed his support for gradual emancipation and compensation. This is from his second annual message to Congress of December 1, 1862. These are Lincoln’s words:
1. In this view I recommend the adoption of the following resolution and articles amendatory to the Constitution of the United States:
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of both Houses concurring), That the following articles be proposed to the legislatures (or conventions) of the several States as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all or any of which articles, when ratified by three-fourths of the said legislatures (or conventions), to be valid as part or parts of the said Constitution, viz:
2. ART.–. Every State wherein slavery now exists which shall abolish the same therein at any time or times before the 1st day of January., A. D. 1900, shall receive compensation from the United States as follows, to wit:
The President of the United States shall deliver to every such State bonds of the United States bearing interest at the rate of per cent per annum to an amount equal to the aggregate sum of____for each slave shown to have been therein by the Eighth Census of the United States, said bonds to be delivered to such State by installments or in one parcel at the completion of the abolishment, accordingly as the same shall have been gradual or at one time within such State; and interest shall begin to run upon any such bond only from the proper time of its
delivery as aforesaid. Any State having received bonds as aforesaid and afterwards reintroducing or tolerating slavery therein shall refund to the United States the bonds so received, or the value thereof, and all interest paid thereon.
3. ART–All slaves who shall have enjoyed actual freedom by the chances of the war at any time before the end of the rebellion shall be forever free; but all owners of such who shall not have been disloyal shall be compensated for them at the same rates as is provided for States adopting abolishment of slavery, but in such way that no slave shall be twice accounted for.
4. ART.–Congress may appropriate money and otherwise provide for colonizing free colored persons with their own consent at any place or places without the United States.
I beg indulgence to discuss these proposed articles at some length. Without slavery the rebellion could never have existed; without slavery it could not continue.
Among the friends of the Union there is great diversity of sentiment and of policy in regard to slavery and the African race amongst us. Some would perpetuate slavery; some would abolish it suddenly and without compensation; some would abolish it gradually and with compensation: some would remove the freed people from us, and some would retain them with us; and there are yet other minor diversities. Because of these diversities we waste much strength in struggles among ourselves. By mutual concession we should harmonize and act together. This would be compromise, but it would be compromise among the friends and not with the enemies of the Union. These articles are intended to embody a plan of such mutual concessions. if the plan shall be adopted, it is assumed that emancipation will follow, at least in several of the States.
Source: http://www.presidentialrhetoric.com/historicspeeches/lincoln/stateoftheunion1862.html
Bottom line: History is pretty rough on many sides and we’re stuck with it.
A few more historical facts:
In early 1863, Lincoln discussed with his Register of the Treasury a plan to “remove the whole colored race of the slave states into Texas.”
source: 102. N. Weyl and W. Marina, American Statesmen on Slavery and the Negro (1971), pp. 228-229. Source cited: L. E. Chittenden, Recollections of Abraham Lincoln.; Lincoln apparently also gave consideration to setting aside Florida as a black asylum or reservation. See: Paul J. Scheips, “Lincoln … , ” The Journal of Negro History, Vol. 37, No. 4 (October 1952), p. 419.
Enough of a history lesson but the attempt to play political football to satisfy political ambitions could go on and on. We need to stop it we have problems like jobs and education and jobs and education…
The fact is, this is 2009 and we as a people have become a new American that is not simply black or white or yellow or brown and millions of Americans today, of all races and colors, are descendants of soldiers who served on both sides in our Civil War. In South Carolina we have a common history and a shared heritage and it is time we move on and argue about what means something to our citizens, our children, our selves and to our parents.
That’s all for now.
Katherine
P.S.
One of the largest and most impressive sites at Arlington Cemetery is the Confederate Memorial Monument…
Here is the link: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/visitor_information/Confederate_Memorial.html
By CNSYD on November 20th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Politics Rocks (Michael Reese), There is this little document called the Constitution of the United States. You have heard of it haven’t you? Do the words “provide for the common defense” mean anything to you? So how is the military “socialistic”. IRT the flag, there is are some other words with which you may be unfamilar. Compromise and agreement. Do those ring any bells? They form the basis as to why the flag is located where it presently is.
By UpstateChris on November 20th, 2009 at 11:37 am
While there are many opinions on the Flag (not being from the South, I really do not have one nor give a crap about the issue) the facts are as follows:
1) I seriously doubt the flag, or lack thereof, will weight on ANY business’s descision to come to South Carolina or not.
2) The issue has been brought up for one, and only one reason – politics. McLeod ovbiously believes this is a good tactic to eliminate some of his competition. Maybe…maybe not.
3) And ya, are we REALLY talking about this again? I mean, really? 12+% unemployement, a VERY broken education system, corrupt Unemployment Commission, complete lack of any mature, forward thinking members of our state Congress….and this is what we talk about? The very fact that this is an issue in itself is WHY business’s would not come to South Carolina…not the flag itself.
By Liberty For Me on November 20th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Micheal Reese….You are half right. The flag was out there as a sign of not taking anymore carpetbagger bullshit.Hundreds of people were murdered and their lands stolen in reconstruction. I think it is awesome that the state had the guts in 1962 to say in one last independant act….fuck you!!
I am sad to say if we dont get some of that last bit of courage we will soon loose all our freedoms.
By Billy Bob on November 20th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Doesn’t sound socialistic to me – quite the contrary, MORON – from Wikipedia – but you can check Noah also if you like (thats Webster, not the boat maker)
Fascism, pronounced /?fæ??z?m/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.[dubious – discuss][6][7][8][9][10] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.[11]
Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state,[12] with the belief that the majority is unsuited to govern itself through democracy and by reaffirming the benefits of inequality.[13] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[14] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalism and liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.[15] Fascism fashioned itself as the “Complete opposite of Marxian socialism…”[16] by rejecting the economic and material conception of history, the fundamental belief of fascism being that human beings are motivated by glory and heroism rather than economic motives, in contrast to the worldview of capitalism and socialism.[17]
By political hack on November 20th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
First off, it seems everyone has their own version of the history of the civil war and the confederate flag. This just goes to show you the parody in our educational system where once again the powers that be allow the issue to be perverted or glossed over to be about a simple issue so all the “young minds” can understand the civil war in a simple way. Unfortunately, young students believe that because the bad ol’ South was a bunch of warmongering rednecks who hated blacks so much they inslaved them. The cause is simple economics really. The North had money, the South had little, and the North has always run the country via Wall Street/Washington Stooges and when they implimented tariffs and measures that aimed to undermine the South’s cotton and agriculture trade (ie way of life and livlihood) it would have devestated their ecnomomies. The sad thing is after putting all their cards on the table it ultimately ended up in the Union Military razing most of the Southern argicultural industry and whatever hub cities were important to the fledgling rail system of the time, leaving the south bankrupt and stripping it of its rights as members of the Union. The effects of this war are still seen today through our basic lack of infrastructure. Flags are essentially a nonissue for those who know the truth, it is political fodder used to polarize groups, especially based on the historical misinformation fed to so many of Americans today, myself included. The truth is that more people will die this year from the central bankers and the socialist poverty they impose. They deliberately have no allegeance to any flag in the name of “free trade” which sounds alot like the British East India Company, the worlds first corporation, and they did alot of interesting things to bring the company vast fortunes beyond comprehension under the guise it was for the crown. Essentially, this “too big to fail” company and its agents took over the British government through bribes and vast monetary influence, like Fannie Mae, the Federal Reserve and the Wall Street banks who are the shareholders of Fed stock. The shit has not yet begun to hit the fan in our economy, read up on Asset Bubbles.
By Forrest on November 20th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
It was an interesting observation by Billy Bob and Soft Sigh,that it was the southern white folks introduced the institution of slavery.Using the Bible as a historical referance source as well as the Talmad from which it was copied from the first referance to slavery was found in Kings where Sheba from Ethiopia an African country which still retains its’ origional name as referanced brought her slaves to King Solamon and introduced slavery to the jews.Thus establishing the fact that the institution of slavery was created by The residents of Africa.The first mention of interracial slavery is found in the book of Exidos where the Egyptians people from Egypt a country in Africa which today still retains the origional name used jews as slaves which are of the white race.There are numerious referances to invasions of blacks raiding Europe for white slaves and it is a shame that Billy Bob’s mother and father spent so much money on a child who never studied and waisted a wonderful oppertunity afford him.Should Black heritage be erraticated the clear answer is no.Should Confederate heritage be erraticated the same answer holds true no.
By Liberty For Me on November 20th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Billy BoB…There are a Few technical differences. But definitions on this subjst are debated and not set in stone.Socialism by name in itself describes what it is…..I forgot your point..which form do you promote???
I bet you are another that will not admit what you base your political beliefs on….chicken shit
By Liberty For Me on November 20th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Political hack and Forrest(great name N.B.F.)You are both sooooo right.
The Socialist crap that has strained our republic to the point of our liberty hanging by a shoe string will collapse this country and there will be a dollar demise.
I myself see a dollar collapse as possibly a blessing in disguise…It takes things getting worse to get better before people will see the light.
By OnNoNotAgain on November 20th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
CNSYD, the return of the slaves issue was one example cited in the Articles of Secession. But the word is in there a whole lot more than that.
It is a disgusting parody of the Declaration of the Independence, trying to list “the just cause” to the whole world.
Then it’s slavery this, slavery that, return our slaves.
A big issue in it was that tehe “rest of the Union” had elected a president South Carolina believed to be hostile to the institution of slavery.
I don’t know why I let myself get sucked in here.
On a response to my only other point, I said to say that a swastika NOW is a symbol of SOCIALISM, because it was a symbol of many things, including National Socialism, is just as ignorant a thing. Why, just a few months ago, the conservatives were going crazy saying Nancy Pelosi had slandered them by suggesting THEY were Nazis.
National Socialism of the Nazi Germany kind bears little to no relation to the socialism mentioned that I responded to.
Every year we hear people say we need to restore civility in national discouse. Every year, national discourse gets less and less civil. Sure, it’s not as much fun. But it’s damaging.
So I’ll repeat a challenge I made in another post here.
You want to call Obama a Nazi? OK, show me the proof. Show me one death camp, one gas chamber. If you can, say what you want, then you and I will go get some guns and attempt to liberate it.
Anything so abhorrent would have to be stopped immediately, and even though I’m a fat piece of crap physically, I’d fight to stop it. THAT’S what the Nazis were. That was their core, their essence.
But if you can’t, then shut the hell up. Don’t use it. It’s a lie.
By OnNoNotAgain on November 20th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Forrest, just love how you seem to be making the argument that “africans” introduced the concept of slavery to the Egyptians, via the Queen of Sheba’s visit to King Solomon.
It is amazing to me that a whole generation of Israelites could grow up in Egypt under the whip and not be familiar with the concept. I mean, if you’re not a slave in Egypt, why would you want to leave?
Surely the Lord has seen the bondage of his people and heard their cries of affliction?
If you want to start a Bible argument, you need to start with the Book of GENESIS. Then proceed to Exodus.
Generally speaking, the Israelites on the run pretty much ended the opponents they are said to have faced and beaten. But there were some slaves taken as well.
By Bobby on November 20th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Why do some who comment here accuse Obama and the Democrats of leading our country to the point of “collapse”, while refraining to criticize the flag that represents treason and temporarily led to our nation’s collapse? There was nothing honorable about the Confederacy. It was a treasonous assault on the Constitution.
By Liberty For Me on November 20th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Red Bank…congrats on kind of coming clean (thats not really a political philosophy in my book)
So you think stating that following the constitution is OK as long as judges can insert their own agenda…right??
Wow.. that is right on track with Obama for sure.So what is the point of having law if you really never hold it firm??.You appoint judges to rule for you to gain power.Nah that’s not giving power to the government and taking away peoples liberty is it??.Do you really fool yourself with this bullshit?..That you want to quibble about what type of oligarchy this is just shows how pathetic your reasoning is and why Jefferson said Liberty would not last long…..Ron Paul 2012…ONLY hope we got
By Reality Check on November 20th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Sigh… this discussion is not focusing on the fact that Mullins is exploiting this tucked away issue in an attempt to gain support from African Americans and have a day in the spotlight. His natural tendency to bore anyone who meets him is reflected in the fact that he must pry into previous political arguments to even have a voice in this race. Better luck next time kiddo.
By Michael Rodgers on November 20th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
The current debate is about defining our state, not about defining the Confederate flag. The current debate is about how we wish to market South Carolina. Do we wish to be called, “South Carolina, where the Confederate flag still flies” or do we wish to be called, “South Carolina, smiling faces, beautiful places” or what? This is the question.
And it’s normal, every 10 years or so to take a look at South Carolina as a brand and to think about how we should market our state. And it’s especially important now, what with the recent deluge of bad press that South Carolina has gotten, with our governor and what-all.
It’s time for South Carolina to change and to control how we are defined. Let’s implement the North Carolina solution to the Confederate flag issue and then define South Carolina the way we want to. We’ll honor the Confederate soldiers from South Carolina the same way that North Carolina honors the Confederate soldiers from North Carolina, by flying the Confederate flag only on the designated holiday(s) (NC has 2, SC has 1). Then we can again define our state as “South Carolina, smiling faces, beautiful places.”
By Historian on November 20th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Lincoln told the south that if they would stay in the union he would let them keep slavery. The war was started over TAXES!! It time for people to start reading more to learn the TRUTH Try to get a little more detail than the one paragraph cliche that they teach you in school.
Read “THE REAL LINCOLN” by THomas Delorenzo
By TomBradySucks on November 20th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Will Mullins ask The KA Order at Wofford stop celebrating Old South.
By CNSYD on November 20th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Michael Rodgers, what do you smoke to come up with all this New Age bullshit you are trying to sell? I have told you before that money talks. You think Boeing gave a shit about whether the flag was flying and from where? How about BMW? As they should they are only interested in the bottom line. All this “branding” horse shit is just a new buzz word that you starry eyed kids use.
By Soft Sigh From Hell on November 20th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
The goobers still have difficulty with the fact that “they” lost in 1865 and that all civilized peoples now give praise for that fact and view the former practice of slavery as reprehensible and full of sin. God is likely now roasting their slave-beating, slave-raping, slave-murdering ancestors right alongside their lynching ancestors.
By CNSYD on November 20th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Soft Sigh, you have your head up your ass. Anytime you use “all” you have to know that extremely few things are “all”. You been to Hell lately? How do you know who is there and what the conditions are? Are you so ignorant to believe that slavery existed only in the southern US? Guess what, slavery still exists in the world today. The fact you miss is that economic slavery is more insidious that slavery with chains and whips. God, not you, decides what is sin and who is guilty and what punishment there will be.
By K Trane on November 20th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
If our economy continues to suffer because the flag still remains on the house grounds, put it in a museum. However, I’d hate to see the NAACP (in my opinion, one of the most corrupt organizations around) win. Don’t forget that a lot of our grandfathers (ironically, who weren’t slaveholders) fought under this flag. Should we scrap their memories and forget our history because we must come into line with the social taboo?
By baker on November 21st, 2009 at 12:11 am
TomBrady: Who knows what Mullins McLeod might say to the Wofford KAs. But I LOVE that a brother of Wofford’s KA Order, which used to (not that long ago) wave the rebel flag and dress up in Confederate outfits, is the one calling for this change. It’s beautiful.
By Liberty For Me on November 21st, 2009 at 6:05 am
Soft sigh……you caught us..you are so smart….
Yes we are all Klansman and pro-slavery and are angry that we lost the war…Do you know how stupid you sound saying these dumb ass things?
By Michael Rodgers on November 21st, 2009 at 7:57 am
There is no doubt that the executives at Boeing and BMW used the Confederate flag issue to extract more concessions from our state legislators. Of course they said, “We’re thinking of choosing a state that isn’t defined by its flying of the Confederate flag.” And of course our state leaders Sen. McConnell and Rep. Harrell said, “What if we sweeten the pot by increasing the tax breaks we’re offering?” This type of conversation surely must have happened.
For just one example about this type of back and forth, consider what Mayor Coble said in April 2007, “The Confederate flag represents the antithesis of these efforts [to attract innovative people and companies to Columbia], and is always the first or second question about what kind of place South Carolina really is.”
If our state passes the Fly Our State Flag bill (2007-2008’s H.3588), then we will honor the Confederate flag, the Confederate soldiers, and Confederate Memorial Day in very much the same way that North Carolina does. This way of respecting the enormous service and sacrifice of the Confederate soldiers is a very effective way to do it.
Moreover, passing H.3588 takes away the competitive advantage that others (states and companies) have over us. Others (states and companies) are using this issue to define us in a negative way so that they have competitive advantage over us. Additionally, we’re losing a lot of money in tourism (NAACP boycott) and in sports tournaments (NCAA ban). We need to compete for businesses, tourists, and tournaments, and we musn’t start from negative territory.
Flying the Confederate flag every day costs our state a fortune. Let’s fly our state flag instead.
By lauren on November 21st, 2009 at 7:59 am
I’m of European ancestory. My relatives NEVER owned slaves. And yes,like many Americans, I have relatives who fought for BOTH the North and the South.
I recently read an article on Islamic persecution of Christians in Africa and Asia. Guess what? Never in human history has there been more human slavery than exists today.
Don’t expect Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or Obama to ever discuss present day human slavery–it’s unpleasant and they can’t make any money off of it.
You lily-white Democrat race-baiters who use the “flag issue” to stir up racial discord aren’t much better than the Klan goons whom you claim to despise.
If you really cared about ending the evil of human slavery, then work to actually end it.
By CNSYD on November 21st, 2009 at 9:57 am
Michael Rodgers, I was totally unaware you were a part of ALL the negotiations for Boeing and BMW. Glad to hear McConnell and Harrell let you in on what is said. IRT Coble, who the hell is he? He is obviously trying to shift blame from his own failures to the flag. I do appreciate you alerting me to H.3588. I will see that my rep understands how to vote on it. BTW since you are so in love with all things North Carolina, you do understand that you can move there tomorrow and you will not be missed, don’t you?
By Bro. John Storms J. M. J. on November 21st, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Leave that flag where it belongs. It is simply a piece of American History that at most tells the story of the 13 U. S. States and why they seceded from the Union. If American History was taught in Schools like it should be truthfully told there would not be an issue about this.
The idea that some “Hate Groups” have misused this flag which is a strict violation against the “Sons of Confederate Veterans Constution” who own that image of our American History should be addressed to “THOSE FOLKS.”
We are an American History Preservation Society, The only ones left to tell the story from the Southern view. Even today the South, is called the Bible Belt, and Conservative States prove that you can beat us down but we spring right back up. Especially at election times. “Deo Vindice”
Who say dat? “damudbug do say dat!”
By Michael Rodgers on November 21st, 2009 at 1:12 pm
CNSYD, If you moved to North Carolina tomorrow, I’d miss you.
By Soft Sigh From Hell on November 21st, 2009 at 5:36 pm
How odd, Liberty and CMYSTD read words that aren’t there, and furthermore L seems to have a poor comprehension of the concept of “ancestor.” Maybe the latter relates to the famous quote so reflective of the south: “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”
As long as goobers still awaken, it will never be boring (or quiet) in fair Dixie.
By Jimmy L. Shirley Jr. on November 21st, 2009 at 10:01 pm
The Black klan is a blight upon this country. That nasty organisation has been the bane of all Southern whites of good will ever since the 60’s. The fact is, is the Blacks had followed the teachings of Booker T. Washington and strove first for economic parity, instead of social equality, things would have been a lot better for most of them today. They had a thriving middle class before the civil rights era, most of their people were married with children, they had their own banks which financed the dreams and aspirations of their own. check out this link http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1000/article/1014 and browse the whole site.
They would have us believe Black existence was slavery, Jim Crow, and post civil rights. Check out the link which will disprove all that shyte.
The Black klan will never be satisfied and they will never stop blaming White folks for all their troubles, which are only perpetuated by this very same organisations, plus those two maggots sharpton and jackson. Maggots is a very appropriate description.
The honour and nobility of the ideals of the CSA will never really die. As long as men yearn to be free of governmental constraints, the CSA will live. The uprising seen this summer past over the implementing of socialism proves the fact. The Noble Banner of the South (NBS) still represents freedom from tyranny, bravery and fidelity on the battlefield, and honour, integrity and Jesus Christ at home.
By Red Bank Bar on November 21st, 2009 at 10:59 pm
“The ideals of the CSA” are the moral equivalent of the Third Reich. The swastika and the stars and bars are certainly equal symbols of white supremacy and the white trash crackers who support the same.
By CSAcitizen on November 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 am
Reading through some of the comments, it is obvious so many do NOT know the CSA’s (Confederate States of America nation) true history, and only know the fabricated Federalist history forced on all by the Un-Constitutional Federal schools. The Battle Flag is a Christian flag that stands against tyranny – exactly what everyone is fighting right now, so the CSA Battle Flag is more important to fly now then ever before since dedicated Marxist Lincoln’s invasion on us in 1861. South Carolina was the brave leader back in 1861 to take that brave stand, and now it seems to have Federalist infiltrated leaders that want to take away all that brave courage shown in the past, and this demeans South Carolina greatly. Federalists are who labelled the Battle Flag a racist flag, to cover up the truth that the only racist and slave flag ever in this country was and is the US Federalist occultic flag – it was he ONLY flag that flew over slavery and the slave ships!! The CSA flags, both the National and Battle flags, are just as much belonging to the Blacks as the whites and the wise educated people know this. IT’s only the dumbed-down robotic Federalist mind-molded people who do not know this truth !
Don’t let the Feds rule South Carolina, and any leader that even hints at lowering the true flags of the south, GET RID OF THEM – THEY ARE DANGEROUS FOR ANY SOUTHERN STATE AND DANGEROUS FOR TRUE FREEDOM THAT THE SOUTH AND ITS FLAGS STAND FOR !!
ANYONE who stands for freedom against tyranny, fly the CSA Battle Flag, for that is its true meaning. Our brave Black Confederates were proud to carry that flag into war for our freedom ! How dare anyone take that away from them with Federalist lies !!!!
By vaproto on November 22nd, 2009 at 7:08 am
Well, two things are certain here. A lot of folks know NOTHING about history: those who equate the Confederacy with the Nazis, those who have no idea what actually happened and why, those who believe that the Lincoln was only trying to save the Union and end slavery and those who believe that socialism is the opposite of fascism (it isn’t).
But quite aside from that, if the People of South Carolina wish to have any kind of “freedom” from the politically correct tyranny that presently holds sway in this country (or what’s left of it), I would suggest that they put the issue on the ballot and vote on it. If the People vote to REMOVE the flag, that is their right. If they vote to KEEP it, that is ALSO their right. But if they cower before p.c. groups like the NAACP, whatever liberty the folks of South Carolina THINK that they have is an illusion. Groups like the NAACP CANNOT be satisfied. They wish the destruction of every vestige of Southern heritage and even THAT won’t be enough. Your flags, your monuments, EVERY MEMORY must be consigned to oblivion and you must grovel in self-abasement and humiliation regarding what these people SAY was the cause of the war and an institution – slavery – that, according to them, was “all the South’s fault”. Meanwhile, the facts and truths of history paint a far different picture – but things like facts and truth never matter to ideologues.
The folks in South Carolina have two choices: defend your heritage and be defamed by those who hate you for being Southerners or appease your enemies and give them what they want – for now. I suggest that a short study of history will teach anyone interested the fate of appeasers.
By CNSYD on November 22nd, 2009 at 9:24 am
Red Bank Bar, I think FITS pretty much nailed you elsewhere. Nice pic of you though.
By Charles on November 22nd, 2009 at 9:56 am
Redbank Bar got it backwards:
“South Carolina and the treasonous confederacy were full-throated advocates of expanded government and federal preemption of state’s rights. They DEMANDED the federal government override state’s rights. When they didn’t get their way, they committed treason against the United Stated and tried to overthrow the United States government.”
No, dear Red, there was no treason. Secession was legal in the 1860s, it was taught at West Point as one of the founding principle of the US of 1776. After years of high taxes and tariffs and many other good reason, South Carolina lawfully seceded from the US and became its own Republic. One by one, other Southern states peacefully seceded and they formed the Confederate states of America, with their Constitution colsely copying the original US constitution with an important difference: the CSA constitution banned the importation of slaves. The South planned to educate and free all slaves, while lincoln wanted to deport all blacks to Haiti or Africa. As for ‘who started the war’, the illegal US occupation of the unfinished Fort Sumter and their refulsal to leave, followed by the US attempts to bring arms and ammuniton to the occupying troops was an outright act of war. The South had no choice but to defend itself against the US aggressive act of war.
Charleston, South Carolina – On the night of December 26, 1860, Major Robert Anderson decided to move the Fort Moultrie garrison to Fort Sumter, in his words “To prevent the effusion of blood.” A merchant ship, the Star of the West, was sent with supplies but was turned back by South Carolina artillerists on 9 January 1861. This event is still considered by many scholars as the first shot of the Civil War.
13 April 1861 — Ft Sumter in South Carolina fell to the Confederate States of America after 33 hours of bombardment. No one was killed; the US troops were allowed to leave with all their equipment.
“The aggressor in war is not the first who uses force, but the first who renders force necessary.” (Henry Hallam)
The CSA never tried to ‘overthrow’ the US. At the first Battle of Bull Run, the Confederate army scattered the Union troops and there was nothing between them and the unguarded White house. If the South had wanted to take over the US, all they had to do was march a few hours and capture the entire city of Washington DC. They didn’t do that because overthrow was not their intent.
“We feel that our cause is just and holy; we protest solemnly in the face of mankind that we desire peace at any sacrifice save that of honor and independence; we ask no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the States with which we were lately confederated; all we ask is to be let alone; that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms.”
— President Jefferson Davis, 29 April 1861
The United States of America was founded as a Constitutional Federal Republic in 1789 composed of a Limited Federal Government and Sovereign States. The North wanted to and did alter the form of Government this nation was founded upon. The Confederate States of America fought to preserve Constitutional Limited Federal Government as established by America’s founding fathers who were primarily Southern Gentlemen from Virginia. Thus Confederate soldiers were fighting for rights that had been paid for in blood by their forefathers upon the battlefields of the American Revolution. Lincoln had a blatant disregard for The Constitution of the United States of America. His ‘War of Aggression Against the South’ changed America from a Constitutional Federal Republic to a Democracy (with Socialist leanings) and broke the original Constitution.
The infamous Socialist Karl Marx sent Lincoln a letter of congratulations after his reelection in 1864. A considerable number of European Socialists came to America and fought for the Union (North).
” Any society which suppresses the heritage of its conquered minorities, prevents their history and denies them their symbols, has sown the seeds of its own destruction.”
— Sir William Wallace, 1281 A.D.
We look upon the flags of the Confederacy with reverence, since they fought to preserve the original Constitution of our Founding Fathers. Fly them all, fly them proudly!
By Jimmy L. Shirley Jr. on November 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 am
“Red Bank Bar” must be a Negro COWARD because of the use of a phony name to hide behind. And a virulent racist nyggir for calling us hateful names.
You neither know the difference between the ideals of the German National Socialist Party and the ideals of the CSA, nor have you any extensive understanding of American history beyond the colour of your nose. The tragedy of this ignorant RBB, and all those with the same mind, is that they are content to wallow in their filthy ignorance, and act on their ignorance. A lot of correct American history has been posted on this board. You have made a conscious choice to ignore this. And a lot more is available online for those honest enough to explore.
I myself have explored much of the Slave narratives to know that black folks were mistreated and some horribly. Most of the mistreatment took place in yankeeland before the early 1840’s. Because by then, most involuntary African servitude had been legally abolished and most of those who had not been freed yet, according to the details of the laws, had passed on. But previous to that, much barbarity had been committed against the poor Negro by yankees. I offer this online book from three Hartford Courant journalists as proof – http://www.courant.com/news/special-reports/hc-slavery,0,3441547.special. But, if you jump to 1860, the last ante-bellum census, you will find that there were some 4,000,000 Blacks living in the South and roughly 250,000 were free Blacks. Now, if there were 400,000 cases of severe abuse, and there probably were not, that still only represents 10% of the Black population. By comparison, there are more cases of parental abuse reported today, appr. 25% of the parental population. Most estimates I have read gave the appr. figure of slave-abuse at 100,000. Both numbers listed, while large, are but a small percentage number. So that means most Blacks, slave and free, were not mistreated and, if not well treated, were at least left alone.
RBB, maybe you have not the capacity for higher learning beyond the colour of your nose. But even if you are the ever-so-slightest bit interested in American truth, then read the book. It is also available in bookstores.
By greg on November 22nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Pitiful attempt by a white guy to ingratiate himself to black voters. If he knew anything about them he would see how insulting this early, “bold” stance appears to them. Does he really thnk they are that shallow? I will watch the primary to see how far back he finishes. His only real hope is for the other self-styled liberal elitists to turn out and give him some hope of getting better than a single digit percentage of the primary vote.
By CNSYD on November 22nd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Charles, great use of William Wallace. England forced its will on Scotland for many years but now Scotland has its own government again. The thistle is the symbol of Scotland for a good reason.
By Not Sayin', Just Sayin' on November 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Baker, McLeod is perhaps the biggest fraud to offer for public office in South Carolina, which is saying alot. Besides being a member of the KKK, I mean, KA Order, his attempts to portray himself as a humble pretty boy out to help the common man are about as plausible as those of John Edwards. McLeod’s website hilariously says “[h]e’s risen from modest means to build a professional business.” Modest? A third generation attorney who graduated from Woodberry Forest School and Wofford College and who has a slew of relatives in politics, including an uncle who is a sitting member of the SC House and another uncle who was a state senator? His in-laws own Hamrick Mills and the Hamrick’s stores chain. He is a certified blue blood who only wants to help himself. At least that lint-head Edwards started out poor before he became a self-serving fraud.
By SCBubba on November 22nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm
He is an idiot ! This is his platform ? Good GOD Amighty I guess if you got the money.. you have the right the right to file to run for office…obviously.. intellectual competence is not a qualification !!!!!!!!! Snow balls chance in hell. you just can’t fix stupid !!!
By Michael Rodgers on November 22nd, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Please read the Rev. Joseph Darby’s op-ed. He’s very clearly saying that if SC implements either NC’s solution or Alabama’s solution, then we could close this debate. No more tourism boycott, no more tournament ban, and no more being defined as South Carolina, where the Confederate flag still flies.
“Sen. McConnell notes that the Confederate flag flies over North Carolina’s Statehouse on selected days of significance, but that display is not continual. Senator McConnell notes that Confederate flags are displayed in proximity to the Confederate Monument on the grounds of Alabama’s Statehouse. That monument, however, is on the side of the building and not in front.”
It ain’t complicated. We either move the monument to the side and fly Confederate flag(s) around it year-round (the Alabama solution) or keep the monument where it is and fly the Confederate flag only on Confederate Memorial Day (the North Carolina solution). Choosing either of these options, both of which respect the Confederate soldiers and the Confederate flag tremendously, is what we should do. I recommend the NC solution.
The “compromise” in 2000 almost completely solved the issue, but we still have a tourism boycott and a tournament ban. With this final decision, to implement either Alabama’s solution or North Carolina’s solution, we can finally move forward and define and market our state how we wish. Other states and businesses won’t be able to use this issue to their advantage over us, and we can have more jobs and more economic development.
By CNSYD on November 22nd, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Michael Rodgers, why would you suppose that the opinion of a typical NAACP stooge would matter? You are so naive you allow yourself to be a tool of the NAACP race baiters. Get over it. There is no change to the compromise of 2000 on the horizon. The only ones suffering from the tourism boycott may be garden spots like Atlantic Beach. IRT the ACC moving the tournament that was to benefit Swofford’s homeboys. Actually Jacksonville was the next highest bid to MB. BMW came from the country of Nazis and gas chambers. Did we try to keep them out? Fuji comes from the land that brought us Pearl Harbor. Did we tell them no? Open your eyes little boy, it is dollars that matter and dollars alone.
By Jamey on November 23rd, 2009 at 6:44 am
Isn’t this interestin, the NAACP the National Association of Alway Complaining People are protesting “economically” yet are trying to gather govern’t money (multi-MILLIONS) to BUILD an “african-american” museum in Charelston, SOUTH CAROLINA!
By bwithers on November 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
is anyone familiar with robert e lee’s letter (which i respect very much) in response to a speech given by then president pierce? what is he saying in the very last sentence ….is it not strange that the descendants of those pilgrim fathers who crossed the atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual libetty of others?
i’ve only recently (these past 2 years) begun to seek out and cherish my southern heritage! i could never read or study or listen to the varying opinions of my past that could ever equal what my heart tells me is true. i truly love that flag!
By bwithers on November 23rd, 2009 at 8:21 pm
spiritual libeRty
By Jimmy L. Shirley Jr. on November 26th, 2009 at 11:22 am
That filthy, rottenflesh eating organisation, the Black Klan (naacp), does not believe in compromise, does not believe in negotiating in good faith with us! These intolerant blackhearts have one thing in mind – obliterating any and all things Confederate! That is all! Nothing else matters! To negotiate with them is to negotiate with Satan himself.
They have no honour, no integrity, no dignity! They love war, not peace! They give image awards to gangsters and whores, instead of those who succeeded on their own without any sort of gov’t. aid whatsoever.
Consider these examples of the sheer stupidity the buffoons of the Black Klan. The below can be found at http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/1000/article/1060
In the 1950s, the NAACP had decried the Amos ‘n Andy sitcom “for not paying enough attention to successful blacks.” But by the 1960s, “black pundits ganged up on Diahann Carroll’s sitcom Julia [about a striving black nurse] for not paying enough attention to poor blacks.”
It’s hard to believe (or maybe not) that the supposedly prestigious NAACP could have had a beef with the satirical Amos ‘n Andy show, and today grants awards to rapping, hip-hopping fools, who are among the creators of some of the filthiest forms of entertainment. About this vulgarity, McWhorter writes, “Today many writers celebrate even the nastiest gangsta rap as a vibrant reflection of black culture.” Given the nature of much of black popular music, and the often raw sexual innuendo of some black sitcoms, Amos ‘n Andy never came close to the lows of today’s black entertainment.
Compromise with Satan IS NO COMPROMISE! Compromise with the Black Klan IS NO COMPROMISE! Stand your ground, South Carolina, and tell the blackhearts to go perform an anatomical impossibility!