Carolina, Clemson Stink Up Forbes’ Rankings
Clemson University may be able to manipulate its data to obtain a higher ranking according to U.S. News & World Report, but the school isn’t fooling anybody at Forbes. Neither is the University of South Carolina, for that matter.
Both of the Palmetto State’s top institutions of higher learning received abysmal rankings according to a list of the top 600 colleges and universities in America as selected by Forbes and the Center for College Affordability and Productivity.
Clemson ranked No. 428 out of 600 schools, while Carolina finished three spots lower at No. 431.
Coastal Carolina University brought up the rear at No. 600, a dubious “honor” indeed.
How were the rankings compiled? Glad you asked …
From Forbes:
To our way of thinking, a good college is one that meets student needs. While some college rankings are based partly on school reputation as evaluated by college administrators and on the amount of money spent, we focus on things which directly concern incoming students: Will my courses be interesting and rewarding? Will I get a good job after I graduate? Is it likely I will graduate in four years? Will I incur a ton of debt getting my degree?
To answer these questions, the staff at CCAP gathered data from a variety of sources. They based 25% of the rankings on 4 million student evaluations of courses and instructors, as recorded on the Web site RateMyProfessors.com. Another 25% is based on post-graduate success, equally determined by enrollment-adjusted entries in Who’s Who in America, and by a new metric, the average salaries of graduates reported by Payscale.com. An additional 20% is based on the estimated average student debt after four years. One-sixth of the rankings are based on four-year college graduation rates–half of that is the actual graduation rate, the other half the gap between the average rate and a predicted rate based on characteristics of the school. The last component is based on the number of students or faculty, adjusted for enrollment, who have won nationally competitive awards like Rhodes Scholarships or Nobel Prizes.
Makes sense to us.
Carolina and Clemson have abandoned their core mission of providing a quality, low-cost public education to chase delusions of economic development grandeur.
The result? Exorbitant tuition increases and millions in wasted taxpayer dollars.
They can spin and manipulate all they want, but facts (and rankings) are stubborn things.
WEB EXTRA
Comments
By SC Native on August 10th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Haha, I’m a Clemson grad, and rarely do I ever back USC, but there are some dogsh!t schools ahead of both universities in the rankings. Most of the time we agree FITS, but I think you’ve struck out here. And so has Forbes.
By Not Sayin', Just Sayin' on August 10th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Wofford was ranked 70th, one spot ahead of Brown and two spots ahead of Berkeley. Furman was 170th. Go Southern Conference!
By Eephus on August 10th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
SC Native – totally agree. Look in Georgia – LaGrange College and Covenant College (where?) are ranked ahead of Georgia and Georgia Tech…two schools that have produced Nobel Prize winners, a US President and countless Rhodes Scholars.
By The Baldmongoose on August 10th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Did anyone notice that a quarter of the rankings are based on http://www.ratemyprofessor.com? As I recall, I rated my professors by breast size on ratemyprofessor.com, so I’m a little skeptical of the “data” used in the ratings.
By South Carolina on August 10th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
However, Wofford (one of the state’s best colleges) ranked #71. South Carolina isn’t completely lacking in good secondary education.
By Minto McGill on August 10th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
This list is bogus.
20% of the points are awarded based on student debt? Well then, no SC school need apply because the one thing that the SC General Assembly and Mark Sanford have consistently agreed is that we are going to fund higher education. Therefore, schools raise tuition and students take out loans.
But here’s the thing: for the most part in higher ed, you get what you pay for (just like in every other commodity). The exception is a few public colleges where the state has decided to make funding public education a priority (California, North Carolina, and a few others). So if you happen to be a resident of those states and you can gain admission, you can go to Berkeley or Chapel Hill for a fraction of what a South Carolina resident can go to Clemson or that other school.
Any ratings system that ranks University of Wyoming, University of Utah, Utah State and New Mexico State among the Top 25 public colleges in the country is a system that needs to be junked.
By Bee on August 10th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
“Makes sense to us.” Not to me! The variables included in this ranking system are absurdly subjective measurements of an excellent university. This ranking is trash, meant solely to generate controversy and advertise Forbes.
No, I didn’t go to USC, Clemson, or Coastal Carolina.
By CNSYD on August 10th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Having spent many years hiring engineering graduates from Eastern universities I can tell you that Clemson and USC are on a par with any of them as far as engineering is concerned.
By bob bearden on August 10th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
“It is important to note that if a school appears on this list at all, that indicates it meets a certain level of quality. The last school on our ranking is by no means the worst school in the nation. According to the U.S. Department of Education, there are more than 4,000 college campuses in the U.S., and the CCAP ranks only the top 15% or so of all undergraduate institutions.”
By confused on August 11th, 2009 at 7:56 am
this list lost it for me when it put hamden sydney–aka the reform school for rich white men who couldn’t get in to w & l, ahead of davidson. student debt as a factor is idiotic. you reward a) places that don’t charge tuition and 2) places that attract the very wealthy, whose parents fund their education. flawed and simplistic ranking.
By Don Johnson on August 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am
If we’re all saying the Forbes “rankings” are subjective, the “benchmark” US News rankings are based off of surveys, the amount of money a college has, and the test scores of the incoming students. Doesn’t say squat about how smart those kids are when they leave. Surveys are pretty subjective, if you asked me.
Every ranking is flawed. It just depends on where your school ranks.
Oh, and US News is on their last legs as a magazine. Maybe we shouldn’t think so much of their business school rankings.
And as someone paying off student loans for the past 15 years, I’d gladly change colleges to not have student loans today – that’s a major plus to a college.
By itsallaboutthegirth on August 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
this is ridiculous. they based their rankings on RateMyProfessor.com and a bunch of other hackjob websites? what are they going to do next year? go on facebook and look at what students post the best pictures and have the most eloquent status updates? it’s kinda like basing rankings of the best steaks on opinions of mcdonald’s customers. come on will, you’re too intelligent to put any stock in this farce.
By K Trane on August 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
While I agree with the idea that Clemson and USC have abandoned undergraduate education altogether, I don’t agree that they are in the bottom 400 schools in the nation. Ratemyprofessor.com is not a credible source for rankings.
Clemson needs to get their shit together. There’s not many Americans (much less South Carolinians) in the Ph.D. programs, wtf? They also make it nearly impossible to get an engineering degree in four years, but then again who wants to graduate in four years. Don’t even get me started on how Clemson circumvented the tuition increase caps imposed by Governor Sanford. Lab fees, parking fees, etc.
Regardless, I’d put up a Clemson engineering student up with a Georgia Tech student any day.
By nocheapthing on August 12th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Rate (or is it Hate) my Professor is junk. Most times, students jump to that site when they earn a grade they deserve but don’t like or for some other highly subjective reason. Other than that, you have to wonder how many students go to that site when they are absolutely wasted. Others tend to be groupies, loving the prof who lets them slide, gives easy grades and so forth. Forbes is a money magazine……………… We shouldn’t “buy” a degree.
By CL Kennedy on August 12th, 2009 at 8:35 am
“Both of the Palmetto State’s top institutions of higher learning….”
This statement should read ” Both of the Palmetto State’s LARGEST institutions of higher learning”. Bigger does not necessarily mean better.
By Upstate on August 12th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Both of the Palmetto State’s top institutions of higher learning….”
This statement should read ” Both of the Palmetto State’s LARGEST institutions of higher learning”. Bigger does not necessarily mean better.
By RD on August 28th, 2009 at 2:13 am
I am ashamed to be a Clemson Grad. I regret the day I ever went there. It is bad when the question, “what college did you attend?” comes up at work. It is very difficult to dodge the question. The degree I think is somewhere buried in the basement of my parents house (it can stay there too until the worms start to complain). I don’t understand people who grad Clemson and leave with all starry eyed worshipping the school for life. (Scratches head)