Between Medicare and Medicaid, the U.S. government insured nearly 100 million Americans in 2008.
Let us break it down for you: The government already owns almost one-third of all health insurance policies, the worth of which accounts for about half of all health care expenditures.
With reform or without, American medicine is seismically socialist.
So what’s the big to-do about health care reform, and how can “socialized medicine” sound so ominous when it’s already here?
Whatever the relative merits of nationalized versus privatized care, the fact is that the issue of government-run care has been asked and answered.
Indeed, the U.S. government is the health insurer, its market share unrivaled by any private firm.
From that angle, the fuss over reform is mere gesture. Further nationalization rubs some people the wrong way (as it should), but it’s a concern that’s more symbolic than substantive.
After all, it’s not like the proposed reforms would take us all the way from 0 to 60. Our healthcare system is already socialist; now it’s just a matter of degree.
By flipnut July 28, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Personally, I don’t care if they take over or if we end of like the UK or Canada. It would take a lot of the fuss out of changing jobs, early retirement, and starting my own business. Either way, we’ll pay out the nose and it will get taken out of my paycheck every two weeks. Double bonus for those us who entered the work force in the last 15yrs, the only employer offering health coverage as a retirement benefit to us is Government Inc.
As for your poor elderly Grandmas who will be murdered by Obama. Tough, we all die sometime.
By political hack July 28, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Just like everything else in the country…Federal Guvment is big biz and everyone wants a piece of the action, after all, they have the Fed and all its play money to use for whatever fantasies they can conjure up. We just get higher taxes and don’t forget everyone’s favorite hidden tax, inflation! We pretty much already work for the government and have to give them 50% of what we earn, but what does that matter, they are gonna take care of us! Slavery is alive and well and the gangsters who run this country and the Fed don’t give a damn about race, creed, or color, just as long as you spend, spend, spend, or use the welfare they give you so everyone else picks up the tab.
By Norris Hall July 29, 2009 at 5:24 am
What will a government run health care plan look like?
We don’t need to go to Canada or England to find out.
We have a government run health care program right here in the States.
It’s call the VA.
The VA runs the largest integrated health-care system in the country, with more than 1,400 hospitals, clinics and nursing homes employing 14,800 doctors and 61,000 nurses. And by a number of measures, this government-managed health-care program–socialized medicine on a small scale–is beating the marketplace. For the sixth year in a row, VA hospitals last year scored higher than private facilities on the University of Michigan’s American Customer Satisfaction Index, based on patient surveys on the quality of care received.
If you want to know what socialized medicine is like. Just ask a vet.
By liz July 29, 2009 at 7:30 am
Well, I’ve got some good examples of what happens in private and government healthcare.
Having been sick all my life, I’d refocus you on healthcare in 1970. When someone got sick in 1970, they went to the doctor, paid by cash, walked to the drug store, paid cash for the medicines and then went home and ate all week and could still pay their bills.
The doctor was the richest man in town. He drove a big car, lived in a ” mansion” and had people giving him things in some cases, bartering, but the doc was doing quite well thank you.
People had insurance back then… it was for catastrophes.
THEN, in the eighties, insurance got more prominent. HMO’s came into style. Managed care… lots of middle men.
Then in the nineties, when all industry is gone is from our shores, healthcare is one of the few industries left. So now instead of making things in America and selling them, we prey off of each other in times of great distress.
That makes all the issues emotional too.
So what happened in Massachusetts with the mandate, that said everyone had to have insurance. People got insurance. They didn’t get ” better” healthcare, they got insurance.
Insurance does not mean you’ll get healthcare.
No matter who owns the plan, they are going to make your decisions for you, unless you are rich rich rich…. I don’t mean a little rich… I mean rich like Gates, Bush, etal…. maybe Roger Milliken can buy his care … I truly don’t know many other people who can.
Having been a nurse, I have seen a person hit the ER and spend 1/2 million in the first 24 hours……
think about that ya’ll.
Now I’m covered by Medicare. I am double enrolled in my Part D plan with the state of South Carolina paying a subsidy on the second plan. I was prohibited from joining the plan I wanted for two years, making me spend double in medication costs for two years.
Having a ” fraudulent ghost account” stops my care. The ghost always wins.
However, all the private plans are ultimately owned by the same big ” too big to fail” company… so there is truly NO competition.
We don’t have a free market… We have a Fidelity Investments, Management and Research market. Until that changes…. nothing changes folks.
By roofus July 29, 2009 at 9:51 am
Norris,
Retired vets will wait 6 hours in line and don’t complain. That’s in their training. Most Americans will balk at a 6 hour doctor visit wait.
By Pat Hendrix July 29, 2009 at 10:20 am
Rather than act like a bunch of insufferable babies, why don’t you people put up a viable alternative to Democratic Party/Liberal ideas. The country is not going to function well in the absence of a viable second party, and all this pissing and moaning, talk of birth certificates, “The One”, facism, socialism and whatever nonsense du jour, isn’t helping the cause. Grow up and formulate some policy solutions. Here’s a hint: You’re not going to get them from Glenn Beck.
Try reading David Frum. He is a voice of reason on the conservative side.
http://www.newmajority.com/quit-whining/
http://www.newmajority.com/quit-whining-2/
By Rick July 29, 2009 at 10:27 am
Lets face it folks, we’re killing off our young at one end and looking to elimenate the elderly at the other end…think there might be an environmental plus here since humans are the problem?
By Mande Wilkes July 29, 2009 at 10:41 am
Pat -
Here’s a revolutionary “policy solution” for you:
Let’s abandon the quest for “policy solutions” altogether, and let’s instead look for market solutions. Policy never solved anything anyway.
-Mande
By Dusk McCoy July 29, 2009 at 11:14 am
Norris,
I’ve worked at two different VA hospitals in two different regions of the country as a part of my training. At both hospitals, the nurses were terrible. Their attitudes were simply, “You can’t fire me, I’m a government worker.”
The sad, long-standing joke at both facilities was that the VA nurses’ mistakes killed more soldiers than the enemy’s sniper’s bullet.
I hope, for our sakes, things have changed.
By Pat Hendrix July 29, 2009 at 11:35 am
Well, Mande, that’s a terrific idea. There’s one problem; we have been waiting for the benign, invisible hand of the market to solve our problems with healthcare for decades. Having patiently waited, we find ourselves with inflationary pressures within the system that are unsustainable (That’s my major concern, if you don’t want insurace – fine, just don’t expect my insurance to pay for your trip the emergency room). We didn’t arrive at this conversation because of ideology; we arrived here because the system is on the edge of the abyss, with nearly .20 percent of the economy tied up in healthcare expenses and American business being put at a competitive disadvantage because they have to pay huge healthcare premiums. So yes, we need both policy and market solutions. I see neither being offered from those carping from the sidelines.
Congrats on the new picture. Much better. You even get to show a flattering profile of the gals.
By dirtbogger July 29, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Pat Hendrix,
Countries all over the world have changed their forms of government over and over again wether by conquest, revolution or cue, for you to call it crazy to believe it is happening here is ignoring the facts. It has been happening here ever since we were the English Colonies. Power and athority rejects freedom and self relince. When people are dependant on government to take care of them they are subservent to government ( a slave if you will). My faith is in God not government, my son was born prematurly and he has a disibility, medical bills well over $100K yes medicaid helped at that time, but I understand that if I had not been subsidized for every one else I would have had more money in my pocket to pay, also I think of every one else who was subsidized for my family, and then I think of all the extra cost that trial lawyers have caused and non tax paying citizens have added to the bill (the income tax is illegal per the Constitution BTW). It is a shame that it cost so much to go to the doctor during normal hours and the hospital is flooded with people who could have gone to a family practice during the day time hours. Now it is not fair that I pay insurence, pay taxes and still pay more out of pocket than someone who lives off the system. There was a time in this country when people did not need insurence, Medicade, doctors did not get sued and there were no taxes. We were a Republic then only gold was legal tender or you could barter, families were tighter and they took care of their own. Wether you realize it or not pat you are working against freedom and for socializem. There is an old saying that if you put a frog in a pot and heat it up fast he will jump out but if you heat it up slowly he will stay there an cook, the same can be said about our country that has been moveing from freedom to a totallatarrian facist oligarchy for many years now. The good news is there is a liberty movement gaining momentum everyday and we will become a Republic once again! Note: the Revolution will not be telivized! Just turn off the TV Pat!
By Pat Hendrix July 29, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Dirt,
You have arrived at one of the most extraordinary illogical justifications for taking public largess I have ever seen. You take public money to the tune of 100k to pay medical bills, then justify that acceptance of public money by saying you had to pay for other people who didn’t deserve it as much as you? Holy shit. Do you know the meaning of irony? If you had the courage of your convictions, sir, you would have manned up and taken care of it yourself. Instead, you said ‘hell with it, they got theirs, I’ll get mine. I deserve it more.”
Wow. Really, just wow.
And by the way, ladies, I have never taken a dime from the taxpayers of this country. I also pay at one of the highest rates. So don’t bother accusing me of collecting welfare or whatever.
As for the other points – about the steady erosion of freedom – if that’s truly what you believe, you should organize groups of real patriots to stop this fascist onslaught. With the very future of this country hanging in the balance, anything less would be cowardly. Or is it possible you guys just hate losing? Democracy is a bitch. Try coming up with some better ideas and selling them to the public. How hard can it be? You’re running against the circular firing squad that calls itself the Democratic Party.
By dirtbogger July 29, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Yes pat, I did do that but the current system forsed me to use it and I did meet all the qualifcations for it. I have payed way more than that in insurence and taxes over the years I am the one that pays for the system and I dont have a problem in getting my fare share back, Thats right I paid for it its my money and I am intitled to it, I had much rather get government out of my life but when it is illealy stolen from me and put in the public pot I have no problem getting what was mine in the first place. It does not make you a better person to advocate government to steal it and do with it as they please. If that is what you want move to another country and take your socialist friends with you their are other countries that are already comunist and you will not have to put all that effort into screwing up ours. It is people like you who makes the revolutionary war and our founding documents pointless. but you are so caught up in propaganda and getting the last word that you refuse to really try and understand liberty or maybe you do and you are part of the establishment that think it knows what is better for me than I do. Watch out the freedom train is comming through, get on or get the hell out of the way!
By dirtbogger July 29, 2009 at 3:11 pm
hell yeah fits I love me some Rage nice pick for todays tuneage!
By Pat Hendrix July 29, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Dirt,
It would be a lot easier to take you seriously if:
A) You didn’t misspell every other word. By the way, it’s insurance, not “insurance.”
B) Resort to bogus strawman arguments like “It does not make you a better person to advocate government to steal it.” Who the hell said it did?
C) Didn’t live off the largess of taxpayers like me by freeloading a hundred thousand dollars of tax payer money then accuse me of being a communist. If you paid that much in federal taxes in your entire life, I’d be shocked.
D) Could put together a logical thought without resorting to Glenn Beckesque talking points about liberty. My guess, you’ve never been out of this country and couldn’t define communism if you had a dictionary sitting in your lap.
E) Didn’t define stealing from taxpayers when somebody else takes from the government while simultaneously taking from the government. Yeah, see if you can get that deal down in Guatemala. I was there last week, and I can personally tell you their healthcare system looks a lot like the liberty you yearn – except when it’s your family – for here in America.
By dirtbogger July 29, 2009 at 5:57 pm
I see how you like to twist what some one says around to angle that you can attack from rather than give a credable debate. Yes I know that my spelling isnt the greatist, but really is that the best you can do, I believe that I just pissed some truth in your corn flakes an you did not like the flavor. You know I also am I am also in one of the higher tax brackets these days and I know damn well that I have paid way more than 100K in taxes the last 9 years in taxs but I do not brag about it in every other post like you do. Who are you tring to impress? Btw I do not watch TV its all propaganda whether it comes from the right or left. I bet you sit there with slober running out your mouth every time you turn on CNN dont you. Go home watch Opra you will feel better later.
By Rick July 31, 2009 at 8:29 am
Pat, what you haven’t addressed in the debate are two elephants in the room. One being that government at all levels of the medical industry require enormous resources be applied to following their guidelines and filing reports attesting to compliance. The second is in the area of tort reform. When a doctor has to pay thousands for insurance each year, that cost is added to the patients bill. Until we begin to solve the issues we as consumers have brought about by our wanting to sue at the drop of a hat (since doctors and insurance companies make to much money) and understand that mistakes will be made, well take a look at the results of governmental care on the Indian reservations if you want to see the future of your care under government largesse.