CIA: Here We Go Again
Democrats on the U.S. House Intelligence Committee are saying today that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been lying to Congress for years about its activities – including secret interrogation techniques and other “classified actions.”
In fact, they’re claiming that CIA director Leon Pannetta admitted as much during closed-door testimony to the committee on June 24.
Republicans claim that Democrats are simply trying to provide cover for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi – who found herself at the center of a public relations sh*t storm earlier this year when she accused the CIA of lying to her.
Why does any of this matter?
Well, Congress is debating a bill that would severely restrict the executive branch’s ability to keep certain CIA operations hidden from lawmakers.
President Barack Obama – who has made great political hay in opposing controversial interrogation techniques – has nonetheless threatened to veto any bill that requires him to notify Congressional intelligence committess about covert operations “in their entirety.”
Comments
By Mickey Blue Eyes on July 9th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Naturally Chairman O wants to keep CIA activities secret after his Dept of Homeland Security declared “mission accomplished” in the war on Radical Islam and declared the Republicans and other counter-revolutionaries are the new enemies of the state.
By Pat Hendrix on July 9th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Mikey, did you become a conspiracy nut after a visit from the aliens, or is your writing a form of Colbertesque irony?
And by the way, the “controversial interrogation techniques” are called torture. We hung Japanese soldiers for the exact same “techniques” in World War II.
By rob on July 9th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Yes, didn’t you know that waterboarding is no different than be-heading?
Pleease, Pat, quit trying to justify your party’s extreme positions.
If waterboarding is equivalent to murder, then in your moral pantheon, what is the equivalent to abortion?
Is not abortion the ultimate form of terror to an innocent?
By bill on July 9th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Pat, will you please provide evidence that Japenese who squirted water up American noses in a non-lethal manner were executed by the Americans?
In my studies of WWII,it’s is well established that the Japanese routinely beheaded Americans and starved them to DEATH. To suggest that the Japanese treatment of American POW’s remotely resembles the US treatment of terrorist detainees is insulting and belies a ignorance if not willful denial of history.
I’m not aware of any execution of Japanese soldiers who engaged solely in non-lethal water-boarding.
By Pat Hendrix on July 9th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Rob,
Please don’t respond to my posts. You probably believe the world is flat.
Bill,
Before writing something that is easily disprovable, try doing a little research. As an historian, I routinely use facts. You should try the same. And try not hiding by the caveat of “alone” to deny was it is plainly obvious: We executed the Japanese for waterboarding.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/dec/18/john-mccain/history-supports-mccains-stance-on-waterboarding/
And by the way, the technique you glibly refer to as “squirting water up noses” has been explicitly considered by the US military as torture for decades. It was perfected by North Korea and China against American soldiers to elicit false war crimes confessions. Glad you consider yourself a proponent of the same “techniques” as Mao and Kim Il-sung. You find yourself in dubious company, sir.
By dirtbogger on July 9th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Jesse Venture said give him a waterboard and an hour with Dick Chenny and he would have him confess to the Tate Murders. The point is that the war on terror is based on lies and needs torture to suport those lies! Go watch you tube vidieos of building 7 and the twin towers fall at the rate of gravity straight down through the path of greatist resistence(remember heat rises so nothing below the impact site of the plane should have been weakened), but jet fuel which is only kerosene does not burn hot enough to melt steel in the first place, even at optimum conditions which the oxygen starve black smoked indicated did not exist! go whatch all the 9/11 controlled demolition vidieos on you tube before you call what I am saying crazy. Point is we have trusted the fox to guard the hen house If our government opperated in the light of day instead of behind closed doors maybe we would not be loseing our freedoms. The Patriot act was not for the terrorist it was for us. Conspricy is not theroy any more! By the way just to ad to what micky blue eyes said they are also calling returning troops potential terrorst too mostly because they are waking up and figuring out who the enemy really is and they realize Obama Bin Lieing or the Taliban did not fly a plane in to the Bill of Rights and neather did Sadam Hussain.
By Not a Spurrier Fan on July 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
After reading these posts, I’m wondering if the aerial spray of valium or prozac in this area wouldn’t be appropriate.
By The Truth on July 9th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Looks like Rob and Bill just got tooled!! As I have said to everyone who denies waterboarding is torture “ill give you $100 is you can last one minute, just one minute. No one has the balls to take me up on the offer.
By rob on July 9th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Mr. Hendrix,
Your non-answer is very revealing.
By rob on July 9th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Dr. Truther,
Is abortion torture? Does your government sanction it?
By bill on July 9th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
“Truth” and Hendrix,
I don’t deny that waterboarding “fits” some definitions of torture. I don’t really care. When someone has the ability to kill litterally millions of humans with a singular nuclear weapon, I don’t have a problem if waterboarding is used (on well-known terrorists) to extract potential life-saving information. Waterboarding is not pretty, for sure, but neither is a mushroom cloud over Manhattan.
Incidentally, has anyone ever died from waterboarding? Has anyone ever not died from be-heading? To suggest that beheading and starvation, two frequent torture techniques employed by the Japaense, are remotely morally equivalent to waterboarding reveals a distorted perspective.
By dirtbogger on July 9th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Bill if we wernt metteling in every other countries buisness around the world why would they atack us. you sound like a scared little sissy hanging on every fear mongering word that Shawn Hannity utters you know we better get them before they get us crap. Just turn off the TV its 90% Bull s___ anyway. And to all of you so called Christian pro life / Pro War wack jobs, who would Jesus Bomb?
By Pat Hendrix on July 9th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Ugh, no it does not, it reveals what logical gymnastics you will go to justify the use of torture. Aside from the gross violation of our own principals this represents – sorry, I still consider the United States the “Best hope for mandkind” – the intelligence rendered from torture is garbage. The Japanese that tortured civilians discovered through waterboarding that Americans and British civilians had sabotaged their airfield. Except they didn’t. It was British Special Ops. Same with Abu Zubaida who revealed a link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. Except he made it up to stop the waterboarding. Is that the type of intelligence you were hoping for?
We managed to win WWI, WWII, the Korean War and the Cold War without torture – was there less at stake? Even Churchill did not use torture against German spies caught in England. This while the Luftwaffe was turning London to ash. And yet, we won.
This is not 24. This not a Jerry Bruckheimer film. Torture has no place in American policy.
By vinnie on July 9th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Interesting discussion. Sure, torture in some form, be it psychological or physiological, has been utilized in all wars. All intelligence agencies have trained “interrogation experts.” We had “interrogation experts” in all the wars of the 20th century. Israel’s Mossad is particularly distinguished at their intelligence extraction capabilities–and for obvious reasons.
To state or imply that the US has never employed enhanced interrogation techniques prior to the Bush Administration is to reveal either ignorance of history or self-delusion.
By DJ on July 9th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Leon Panetta has a big mouth. He would not last that long in fight club. Waterboarding, the physical act, is not what makes it torture. It is the psychological aspect of not knowing when it will stop or how long it will go on for, that cracks people. its mental as most interrogation techniques are. I mean, I get drunk and waterboard all the time. It’s the new beer bong. It’s the new S&M in porn. Everyone is doing it! JK.
With respect to Pat who comments all the time here with some good arguments, what exactly is our principles? I mean we have plenty of examples in our history where we can question that. And we did sanction torture in a lot of those wars. The CIA KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation, July 1963 is an example. When I was in Iraq we had a prison yard and some of the things done by the intel guys and the way we treated prisoners could be considered torture depending on who you talked to. I mean the definition isn’t really defined is it? Everyone, every agency, every country, media, and the various groups around the world all have different definitions of what torture is.
I love this country, I fought for it, would continue to fight for it if its needed again. But I also understand that we dont have the cleanest history, that we sometimes did ugly things and made ugly decisions (Hiroshima?) in order to survive. We have compromised our principles and integrity more than once in our history but we survived. We do what we have to. Thats reality. To say that torture doesnt belong in American policy because it goes against our principles is disingenuous and not based in any reality.I prefer to call it interrogation techniques.
By ron on July 9th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I’m no historian but I recall reading in a military history of WWII that a large number of German subversives captured in North Carolina were immediately tried and hanged within days after a military tribunal. They were violating the Geneva Convention by dressing as civilians.
Speaking of Anglo morality of WWII, it’s no secret that Britain bombed vast swaths of civilian population centers as did the US, killing tens of thousands of civilians.
War is hell. So said Sherman as he specifically targeted civilian population centers for destruction in the South. Columbia is still an armpit, and has never recovered.
The North won, however.
I agree with Bill though I disagree with your spelling of literally and your use of the word “singular.”
By Sarma on July 11th, 2009 at 1:14 am
The facts are: There is no police investigation into 9-11. The commission was instituted an year after the incident. The evidence was shipped away to China and India. These three facts coupled to the 100s of other mysteries indicate complicity of the Bush administration. 9-11 was a joint CIA Mossad operation.
By dirtbogger on July 13th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Hell yeah Sarma, at least someone gets it!