Lawmakers Contradict Themselves On Recorded Votes
By Bryan Cox
Members of the General Assembly rushed to criticize the Policy Council’s new study on the lack of recorded votes in the state legislature this week. In their zeal to sidestep the reality that South Carolina is among the nation’s worst at requiring its elected officials to vote on-the-record, legislators decided to attack the study itself rather than address its findings. However, in doing so they blatantly contradicted their own previous statements.
Legislative leaders criticized the 2008 Policy Council study as ‘misleading’ because it did not include procedural motions. Now lawmakers call the 2009 study ‘flawed’ for including those same procedural motions. This is a paradoxical argument.
Below are two excerpts from articles written by Yvonne Wenger of the Charleston Post and Courier. The first is what lawmakers said during last year’s debate. The second is from a story earlier this week.
Post and Courier: August 11, 2008
The South Carolina Policy Council’s analysis of roll-call votes on its own is misleading, legislators say. House Speaker Bobby Harrell’s office released figures that took a broader look at the matter. For the two-year session that concluded in June, roll was taken 1,102 times in the House. That also takes into account votes cast in 2007, bills that did not become law and voting on amendments, none of which the Policy Council’s tally factored in.
Post and Courier: June 9, 2009
Many legislators wrote off the report as flawed because the think tank included every vote taken on the chamber floors, even procedural minutiae such as motions to table other motions. The only actions excluded from that tally were congratulatory resolutions.
There you have it.
One study is flawed for excluding motions. The other is flawed for including them. It appears the only consistent statement we can expect from the General Assembly is its opposition to recorded votes. Legislators are just making up the reasons why as they go along. Here are a few brief undisputable facts:
- 75 percent of votes taken by the General Assembly were anonymous voice votes despite new rules adopted by the legislature in January. The House recorded votes 31.2 percent of the time in 2009. The Senate recorded votes 15.6 percent of the time.
- This percentage excludes congratulatory resolutions that did not impact actual legislation.
- 41 of 50 states require at least one legislative chamber to record its vote on every single bill passed into law. Four other states mandate recorded votes on all revenue bills
Click here to see the complete report on recording voting in the General Assembly
Editor’s Note: The author is Director of Communications at the S.C. Policy Council.
Comments
By Recovering Lobbyist on June 10th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
“41 of 50 states require at least one legislative chamber to record its vote on every single bill passed into law. Four other states mandate recorded votes on all revenue bills.”
This is all fine and well, but which votes do they record? Each body can vote literally hundreds of times a day on some days. Having them record all votes would be a huge waste of time. Do we demand a recorded vote on second reading (the key vote on any bill)? If you pay attention to the legislature, second reading votes on some bills are often anticlimactic. The real vote is usually on one of the key amendments. How are we to know? And how do you legislate this issue? I doubt there is anything useful about the laws in those 41 states.
I think what we need is a meaningful analysis of these votes so we can determine how to legislate the issue. Until then, what we need is a group of legislators who will move for a recorded vote on the substantive votes. That is how BIPEC has gotten the recorded votes they need for their scorecard each year.
By Bryan Cox on June 10th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
RL…Any measure important enough to become state law is important enough to get a yes or no vote. Second reading, amendments, etc. are key, but final passage is the MINIMUM standard nationwide and we don’t even meet that here.
Your comments seem more concerned with preserving time for legislators to attend cocktail receptions than preserving the citizen’s right to accountability. Representative government must always focus on what is in the citizens’ interest, not what is most convenient for the lawmaker. We call it ‘public service’ for a reason.
By Depot on June 10th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Showing that an opponent is inconsistent in attacking your position does not necessarily suggest that your position is correct; it only indicates errors in their counter-arguments.
By Recovering Lobbyist on June 10th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Bryan–I challenge you to spend a couple of hours in the gallery of the State House. You will reconsider your position. I am not interested in conveniencing legislators.
After your view of what is right is implemented, I predict you will be posting about the huge waste of money all of those recorded votes will be costing taxpayers not just in time, but in the volume of pages to record them. And before you say just post them online, I refer you to FITS post about not printing the Journals a couple of weeks ago.
All I am suggesting is that we record the votes that matter. I think my position is fairly common sense, but then that approach may not be well suited for this BLOG.
By Voter who Wants to Know on June 10th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
What’s the definition of “the votes that matter”?
By BIN News Editorial Staff on June 10th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
The S.C. Policy Scam Council has been misleading us?
What a scoop (yawn)!
We wonder if they are politically motivated (yawn) and when they will reveal the sources (yawn) of their funding.
There certainly is a lot of political (yawn) inbreeding among the Policy Scam Council, SC for Scamming Responsible Government, Voice for Voucher Scams, the fits news porn site and Howie’s host of voucher clowns.
Do you guys sleep together, too?
By techno freak on June 10th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Why not invest in technology that could make every vote a recorded vote without slowing anything down. doesn’t sound difficult.
By Ron on June 11th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Techno Freak,
The house has the electronic voting equipment but the Senate does not. The Senate should immediately make this investment, and both houses should immediately codify recorded voting into state law. You’re absolutely correct that by not doing this, lawmakers are telling the citizens that “what you don’t know won’t hurt you”. It’s a prevailing attitute in Columbia, and VOTE THE BUMS OUT is becoming the prevailing attitude among the electorate.
By Steven on June 11th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Not passing this bill shows Harrell and Leatherman don’t care about the public. It is a blatant poke in the eye. We have watched lawmakers send out mailpieces and promote themselves as “strong Republicans”, “Leaders”, etc. Yet when they vote, the record will show quite the opposite. I was in a farmers market meeting where this exact thing happened (Jake Knotts).
My group has never been involved in politics, with exception to showing up and voting. We are now making our voices heard prior to any polling station opening up. We are tired of the Coopers, Knotts, Harrells, Leathermans, Binghams, and McConnells ruining our state!!! They are arogant insecure liars!!!
By Jim on June 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
BIN News,
Your post makes absolutely no sense. Calm down, collect your thoughts, and then type. It works better.
By StupidShouldHurtMore (SSHM) on June 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
@Recovering Lobbyist:
I’ll take your bet and raise you a dozen in the process. I’ve sat in the galley – both sides – numerous times over the past decade or so. I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but on the House Side … there is this huge, how shall I call it, yes, scoreboard that lists ALL of the members of the SC House. You push a button at your desk … bam … it appears on the big board across the room there.
It’s not really a stretch to use that board more often in voting. Really.
Hell … I’ll chip in for the hard drive or two needed to store the handful of bytes needed to record votes.
While I am certainly no fan of the SC (Libertarian) Policy Council, this is clearly an issue in which those who are not for recording their votes have not a leg to stand on.
Why is everyone afraid to record how they vote on an issue? Scared you can’t go back and change the vote after the fact?
- SSHM
By Red State Watcher on June 11th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I thought Nikki Haley had taken care of all this for us — at least that’s what she has been prancing around the state telling folks. “I fought the good fight so you could see how your elected officials are voting and I got punished for it — but it was worth it!,” she says breathlessly. What horeshit. Turns out the half-assed “transparency reform” she cut a deal with the Speaker on isn’t worth much at all. Throw her out too.
By Hawk on June 12th, 2009 at 12:28 am
This issue is a total waste of time. Any idiot that spends five minutes at the State House can understand that any legislator who is worth his or her salt can request a role call vote on any issue he or she wants. The rules in the House require one to have nine other members for a recorded roll call vote. Any House member who can’t get nine friends, or roughly 7 percent of the body, needs to resign and go home. And people actually spend time on this issue at the Policy Council. What a joke.
By Toyota Kawaski on June 12th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Yesah Mr.Rich right away sir’s
By proudofsc on June 12th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Red State Watcher,
You are right on it!!
By Bryan Cox on June 12th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Hawk,
You miss the point. When lawmakers decide themselves what votes are recorded the fox is guarding the hen house. A citizen can’t shout out a roll-call request from the gallery — the only way the public can ensure a vote is recorded is to require they all be.
Too often citizens elect good people, but after a few years of receptions, parties and being constantly told they are special and important, it is easy for even a humble person to forget those trappings are an illusion.
The sole reason we have legislators is to serve the people. Once you remember that this issue becomes very simple.
By Huh? on June 12th, 2009 at 11:06 am
“75 percent of votes taken by the General Assembly were anonymous voice votes despite new rules adopted by the legislature in January. The House recorded votes 31.2 percent of the time in 2009. The Senate recorded votes 15.6 percent of the time.”
Red State Watcher is right — we have been sold a bill of goods by Nikki Haley. Check out this email from her to the unwashed masses on January 14, 2008:
The Haley E-Newsletter – On The Record Voting passes the House!!
Dear Friends,
We Did It! On-the-Record Voting just passed on the floor of the South Carolina House of Representatives by a vote of 115-0!
Click here to read my blog which has more details as well as my thoughts about this significant accomplishment.
Nikki
Well, Nikki, the rule that passed the House last January didn’t — despite your joyous, pompous and self-promoting proclamation — do shit. By settling for this sell-out House rule, you single-handedly took the winds out of the sails of real transparency reform.
By Insider on June 12th, 2009 at 11:10 am
AND, let’s not forget how “selective hearing” from the Speaker has created several controversial scoffs just this past session alone.
Anyone who thinks that we need processes and steps for recording votes is simply stuck in the dark ages and/or has something to hide. A simple push of a button has proven effective, efficient, and ethical!
By Insider on June 12th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Oh, I might also add after seeing the above post, that while Rep. Haley was able to secure a House Rule, her push for her Transparency bill was already drafted and continuously stiff armed by Rep. Harrell. The fault clearly lies with Rep. Harrell who will not let the bill be heard…strictly out of fear of being shown up…yet again.
By Red State Watcher on June 12th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“Huh?” hits the nail on the head. By celebrating the watered-down House rule as a personal victory, Nikki killed all momentum for real transparency reform. She was more interested in making a “name” for herself than helping promote good public policy. And that’s sad.
By Gen. Longstreet on June 12th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Sounds like some colts are afraid of the comely filly. And they should be.
By Sandra on June 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Nikki Haley has shown more courage and passion for the truth than any House or Senate member. She has always put the policy first and personal agendas aside, something that all the WHITE HAIRED MALES have issues with.