Sanford Versus Graham?
It wasn’t the knockdown, dragout fight that some in the media are making it out to be, but U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham’s recent broadside against the libertarian view of government wasn’t greeted warmly by S.C. Gov. Mark Sanford.
“I am not a libertarian,” Graham told a tepid crowd at last weekend’s SCGOP convention. “If you are, you’re welcome to vote for me and help this party, but we’re not going to build this party around libertarian ideals.”
In fact, here’s a clip of Graham’s remarks …
Calling Graham’s comments “pejorative,” Sanford took immediate issue with the Godfather of his youngest son (true story).
“Sen. Graham spoke and said ‘I’m not a libertarian and whatever, whatever …’ as if that’s an evil word,” Sanford said. “Liberty is the hallmark of the American experiment. (It) is the distinguishing characteristic of our Republic and frankly what’s made it great.”
Sanford goes on to call liberty the “genius of America,” saying it unleashed “individual initiative that can’t be there with central planning.”
Here’s the interview with Sanford following Graham’s speech …
So who won this round?
To the poll!
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Comments
By Pat Hendrix on May 19th, 2009 at 8:58 am
God in heaven, is this what passes for discourse in your party? Sanford’s comments are just frightfully inane. If he and Sarah Palin are the future of your party, then the future of the Republican Party looks a lot like this: http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h279.html
By Ron on May 19th, 2009 at 8:59 am
I was at the convention and believe that Graham’s remarks were directed at Ron Paul. What Graham fails to realize is that everytime he “goes off” on one of his rants, he alienates more voters and apparently now the Governor. We have many libertarian leaning Republicans “in the big GOP tent”. It’s folks like Graham and his anti Ron Paul rhetoric coupled with his pro amnesty for illegals views that are “driving a wedge” through the heart of our GOP. DUMP GRAHAM IN 014. Not to mention his rumored sympathies for “the log cabin folks”. GRAHAM IS POISON FOR THE GOP, and when will my fellow South Carolinians realize it? Well there were many “boos” heard around the convention hall and numerous delegates who walked out of the arena when Graham took the podium. That’s a significant nucleus of support for Graham’s next opponent hopefully.
By Just the fact.. on May 19th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Just the facts ..
Graham is being honest…Sanford isn’t. Sanford is trying to walk the tight rope of pretending to be Republican while using the buzz words of the libertarian party. True these folks are fiscal conservatives…but they are social moderates to liberals. Thus Sanford is ok with the S.C. Is so gay program, warms to other socially moderate politicans like Rudy and he doesn’t burn enough political capital on issues like school choice. Graham on the other hand calls this group out on the social issues at the convention and Sanford makes some strange argument that he is both libertarian and Republican?
I have no problem with him being libertarian …he should just have the courage of his convictions and say “I am a Libertarian”. But in typical Sanford style…just like I am against the budget bailout but I will take the money…he wants to have it both ways.
By Liberty fo me on May 19th, 2009 at 10:06 am
To (just the facts) Why is being a Liberterian and a Republican confusing?
Liberterian is a philosophy as well as a party.True Republicans are all Liberterians.People like Graham who are Fascists hiding in the Republican party is the problem with this country.Education is our biggest mountain to climb.This poll is a great example..REALLY???40% support REALLY??? That is proof there are still people who are uneducated about history,politics and what this REPUBLIC is supposed TO BE.
By SC Liberty on May 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am
If Sanford was such a libertarian, why didn’t he back Ron Paul for President? Why support the neocon budget busting McCain?
It is past time for Sanford to say what he means and means what he say.
Does he support an audit of the Federal Reserve? Does he actually believe in and support the foreign policy of the Bush and Obama Administration? Does he support invading Muslim countries and occupying them for years and years?
Does he think we should prosecute the war criminals – Pelosi, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld? Or since these people were in such powerful positions does believe they immune from our laws?
Someone needs to ask him these questions and get some answers.
By Mab on May 19th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Pat Hendrix,
Can I ask you a candid question?
Are you Brad Warthen in drag?
RSVP…por favor-y
By me on May 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am
rinos ftw! Im just glad the GOP is dying. It means the neo-con retards ( there are a few on this page!) will join the democrat party where they belong . Heres a thought, Democrats-Repub-other party. Someone get the real conservatives to the other party please. sanford 2012!
By First Money on May 19th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Apparently, there’s a little confusion on this board. I hope this can clear it up a little bit. There is a difference between being a small-l “libertarian” and a capital L “Libertarian”. One means that one is generally in favor of smaller government; they are fiscally conservative and can be socially moderate or conservative; the other is a political party that generally follows the libertarian philosophy, but is filled with social moderates often pushing the end of drug laws.
Sanford has libertarian instincts, but he is not a “Libertarian”. He is a fiscally conservative, socially moderate-conservative Republican.
By Bill the Lexington GOP delegate on May 19th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
The Republican party will die a quick death if it does not return to what were once its core values: smaller government, free markets, lower taxes, greater individual freedom and liberty for all Americans. If supporting “Liberty” makes me a “libertarian” then sobeit. If I am FORCED to support big government neocon morons like Lindsey Grahmnesty in order to be considered a “true republican” then I say “auf wiedersehen” to all the Graham-loving facists. When Graham invokes the “eleventh commandment” and only SECONDS later trashes one of the MOST freedom-loving, small-government Republicans in the entire party, I call him out as a complete (log cabin) hypocrite! We Republicans absolutely MUST stop supporting liberal RINOs like Graham and McCain (basically Dems in Rep clothing) or we will never win another election. The average American is more conservative than their ilk.
By Pat Hendrix on May 19th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Mab,
No, I disliked Brad Warthen and couldn’t stomach his blog. And sorry, I’m a dude – I prefer boxers though occasionally go commando.
I also wanted to ask you a serious question:
Are you medicated? If the answer is yes, I suggest you up the dosage. This isn’t a joke. If your total and complete detachment from reality is this obvious on a blog, then it must be exponentially worse in person. Citing the World Daily Net, indulging in conspiracies about swine flu and Air force One and incoherent rants all suggest a pervasive mental problem.
Seek help.
By Anna on May 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Neither Graham nor Sanford are perfect.
In my opinion, Graham is much less perfect.
In his actions and words, Sanford does lean more towards personal responsibility and a limited government. These are the central pillars of the libertarian philosophy.
Graham leans towards only one thing, getting his way.
I was a delegate at the State GOP Convention, Sanford’s speech about fiscal conservatism received an enthusiastic applause from most of those present–even those who generally support neocons.
Lindsey Graham received a lukewarm response at best. He has alienated many in the party with his belligerence and bullying. He doesn’t stand for anything, he only wants to maintain his power and be reelected.
As far as I’m concerned, Sanford is a statesman. Graham is a bully.
By CNSYD on May 19th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Whether you like how Washington works or not does not matter. Graham understands how Washington works. Sanford would cut off his nose to spite his face but the real losers are the state of SC. Washington is going to spend money. If you want to pay taxes but get little in return then line up with Sanford. It is just like the anti Beasley ads about the lottery. Other states just love Sanford as they get our money.
By Elmo on May 19th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Please take a minute to watch this video of Lindsey Graham debate himself on torture. It is downright unbelievable.
When they call lindsey a hypocrite – they dam sure are not joking- here is the proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3vH4umQIE4&feature=player_embedded
By Jim Chambers on May 19th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
How can Graham consider himself a Republican and at in the same breath say he is anti-liberty? The original idea of the Republic that conservatives want to protect was built around respect for individual liberty!
And for the record, there is a difference between a “libertarian” and a “Libertarian”. The latter belongs to a party that was formed because some people thought that neither major party was doing enough to preserve liberty any more, and the former is someone from either side who, like our founding fathers, still believes that individual liberties are the cornerstone of this great country.
-JC
By CNSYD on May 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I suggest all you head in the sand folk on here read “So Damn Much Money” to learn how Washington REALLY works. You can sit around and whine all you want but other states will continue to pass us by. Think of this the next time you go thru the checkout line at the grocery store. Do they care about your high minded libertarianism or whether you have the funds to make the purchase?
By David S. on May 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
It is not surprising that a big spending neocon would be against small government and freedom. Lindsey Graham wants to keep the Department of Education and Energy and all the other illegal federal departments that only waste your tax money while state governments do all the work, like educating your children.
By Mab on May 19th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Pat — This IS me, helped :)
And Pat,
Please take this suggestion in the spirit it is given:
There is an escape hatch for left-wing group think. It is called thinking for yourself. Use your mind, man.
By Another opinion on May 19th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
If many of you are just now figuring out that Sanford is a libetarian you must have had your heads buired in the sand for years. His biggest supporter is Howard Rich, the king of libertatians and his biggest think tank is the Cato Institute. Good god people, where have you been! Sanford is a great libertarian and a horrible republican! Get on with it.
By WorkingTommyC on May 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
The fascism thinly disguised as capitalism for the past several decades has wrought financial devastation. Everyone in D.C. is scratching their heads trying to figure out how much money to print and where to spend it. Typical Washington, DC false dilemma.
Brothers and sisters, there IS an answer. It’s a document called the U.S. Constitution. If you don’t like it, AMEND THE THING BUT STOP IGNORING IT!!!
The mess we’re in now could not exist of this nature nor to this degree at the worst of economic cycles if sound money existed and a pared down and neutered central government was once again subservient to the states and the people, respectively. It took fiat money decoupled from gold and the creation of the Federal Reserve’s fascist money press to create the first great depression. Now they’ve given us another of their greatest hits and are making the biggest power grab in US history.
It’s the diaper-wearing, gray-haired fascists and their “go along to get along” crowd of voters that have made a mess of things. It’s time for a 1776/1787 revolution to restore the republic. Dare to be radical for a change! What would Jefferson do?
By Chuck on May 19th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Can’t we all just be Democrats or Republicans (JK)? That way, we could all just put our heads in the sand while the federal government runs rough shot over our Constitutional rights!
To Pat Hendrix’s comments: Get a clue (or an education) which ever is cheaper.
By CNSYD on May 19th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Jefferson would be too busy with Miss Hemmings to help.
By Pat Hendrix on May 19th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Hey Chuck, I’m working on my PhD, so it must be a clue I’m missing. Thanks for your insightful comments. I’ll assume your anger is a result of your looks. But don’t blame me, blame God or bad genetics.
And Mab,
Thanks, please forward a reading list. I’ve got to get caught on my Obama as Manchurian president reading.
By Pat Hendrix on May 19th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Chuck, one last thing: When you’re suggesting I get an “education”, you should remember to spell the next word after education correctly. It’s not “which ever” it’s “whichever.”
Best,
Pat
By Rod on May 19th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I still remember how Sen. Graham gleefully volunteered to help the Bush administration set up a kangaroo court at Guantanamo. He was supposed to vigorously oppose the abridgment of Constitutional rights. He’s a snake in the grass.
By Mab on May 19th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Chuck,
Thank you for your sanity and your support. Pat is like a termite.
###
Pat — the fastest route off the lib hamster wheel you are trapped in can be found at “Sunlit Uplands.” Read it every day.
As predictable as the sun coming over that hill, you will find the truth that has escaped your grasp thus far in your highly educated uselessness.
:)
By Pat Hendrix on May 20th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Ah Mab,
Sunlit Uplands did not disappoint. Predicatble redmeat for the tin foil hat crowd and garden variety cranks.
Now let me get back to my uselessness.
Best,
Pat “Termite” Hendrix
By Mab on May 20th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Pat,
’smooches’
By Teri on May 20th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
The vicious, non-polite tone that goes back and forth in these blogs and all other media sources has gotten us where we are today.
What has happened to manners and “agreeing to disagree”? Why does everyone feel the need to personally attack someone they disagree with on issues?
I for one support Gov. Sanford and walked out of the Silver Elephant dinner while Graham was speaking. I disagree with A LOT of Graham’s views but I will not attack the man personally. I just refuse to vote for him.
Voting is the People’s power to change the state or the Federal Gov. so, spend time working on getting people you want to represent you voted in or run for office yourself. Use the power the constitution gave us (as long as the rights are still available, they are going fast!).
By Jeffersonish on May 23rd, 2009 at 9:54 am
Fiscally conservative and Socially liberal (or moderate) is a very simplistic way of describing libertarian philosophy. A much better way of describing it is “opposition to the use of uninitiated force and fraud.” Everything the government does is backed up eventually by a gun. Everything.
This is why libertarians (the little L meaning a person who subscribes to this principle) seek the smallest government possible. Like Sanford refusing money that could help his state, libertarians seek the greater liberty that comes with smaller government. You can’t have smaller government by spending and taxing more. You also can’t have smaller government if you insist on continuing the failed war on drugs. You aren’t promoting liberty by arresting people for exchanging money for sex.
If the government stuck to a few simple tasks (which is all they can really handle well) everybody would be better off. I voted for Reagan and appreciate his efforts to cut taxes, but under his Presidency spending increased. W. was like a caricature of Reagan in this respect.
At some level, the lion’s share of the population understand that cutting taxes or leaving them level and increasing spending is just the coward’s way of increasing taxes. If the GOP wants to survive, they will find candidates serious about fiscal reform. They will embrace people like Ron Paul who wants to take a chain saw to the budget. If you haven’t noticed, we are WAY past the point where we can address our economic woes with a scalpel. A little antibiotic isn’t gonna do it. We’re gonna have to amputate a leg. It’s gonna hurt. It’s gonna have serious consequences, but pretending like the gangrene that is overspending isn’t gonna kill us will surely kill us.
Putting an end to overspending is an issue of liberty… it’s libertarian.
P.S. I don’t know much about Sanford or for that matter Graham and I am sure they both have their faults, but from what little I do know, I would guess Sanford is far more libertarian than Graham even if that’s not saying much.
By susan aldridge on June 4th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Lindsey Graham is not a statesman. He comes off as a pasty attachment to a party- an opportunist even in his own mind. He stands for nothing and spouts rhetoric he thinks will win him the vote. Only- his perception of what is going on in this world and in this state is non-existent. He is a spouter of speech with no convictions, with no sense of right and wrong. His shouting even sounds empty. Just a puppet like Obama. A puppet of the bankers, just like more than half of Congress.
S0 if you can translate Graham’s words about Ron Paul- Graham is for a big central government with ongoing unaffordable wars based on lies- a Lindsey Graham Republican, a neo con, a usurper of the Republican party. He is with the group of men who stole the Republican Party- the neo cons- who stand for everything foreign to a real Republican.
By Jim Palmisano on January 6th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
People like Lindsey Graham need to be tar and feathered and thrown out of our country. People like this think that they are our leaders and can do whatever they think is appropriate for themselves. Well guess what Lindsey Graham…fuck off! LOL
We don’t need you, don’t want you, don’t want anyone who thinks they represent the people. We the people are here and don’t need any help from charlatans like yourself. GO GET A REAL JOB ASSHOLE and leave us alone!
Wake up people! Did you hear the applause by the idiots that have no clue and just condone the bullshit people like Graham spews? There will come a day shortly where we will have to deal with these idiots and they are all over the country including the Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Independent, and other parties. They are all clueless listening to the mainstream media. Sean Hannity is a dipshit. Rush Limbaugh is another stupid war monger.
So let’s just lose our country fighting the bullshit wars.
By Alex on January 6th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
Lindsey is a fine example of the degenerate sodomites that make up the Zionist-traitor wing. He can’t keep up with his own lies. How does fighting anyone anyone keep their surviving family members from IMMIGRATING through our suicidal open borders and idiotic immigration system that allows swarms of unaccountable foreigners in to this country?