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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Stimulus&#8221; That Actually Costs Jobs</title>
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		<title>By: BC</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50867</link>
		<dc:creator>BC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50867</guid>
		<description>First, economics is a social science that is applied on a daily basis and must be checked and evaluated often to test the balance.  Second, the free market system works great only when it is working.  All industries are connected by either direct or indirect means which affect the other at some point.  How about some of you answer this question, what would have happened if President Obama stepped into the Oval Office and did nothing?  Lets assume that he even went as far to veto the entire American Recovery and Reinvestment Act from the moment it hit his desk.  What would many of you say then?  What would happen to the entire economy overnight?  How about that 1.3 trillion dollar deficit that the Bush Administration left for the Obama Administration to find a way to fill.  Learn your history, the previous administration will either leave a strong nation with growth and prosperity or a gaint mess for the next administration to fix (in which they are many times praised or blamed for the previous one).  Now I want to hear some real thoughts in the answers...none of that Fox News or Rush rhetoric.  Also, if you present a figure you should be able to source it.  Oh...the 1.3 trillion dollar deficit is from the Congressional Budget Office in Washington, D.C.  This information is public knowledge and it clearly indicates that this amount is from the previous administration effective December 31, 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, economics is a social science that is applied on a daily basis and must be checked and evaluated often to test the balance.  Second, the free market system works great only when it is working.  All industries are connected by either direct or indirect means which affect the other at some point.  How about some of you answer this question, what would have happened if President Obama stepped into the Oval Office and did nothing?  Lets assume that he even went as far to veto the entire American Recovery and Reinvestment Act from the moment it hit his desk.  What would many of you say then?  What would happen to the entire economy overnight?  How about that 1.3 trillion dollar deficit that the Bush Administration left for the Obama Administration to find a way to fill.  Learn your history, the previous administration will either leave a strong nation with growth and prosperity or a gaint mess for the next administration to fix (in which they are many times praised or blamed for the previous one).  Now I want to hear some real thoughts in the answers&#8230;none of that Fox News or Rush rhetoric.  Also, if you present a figure you should be able to source it.  Oh&#8230;the 1.3 trillion dollar deficit is from the Congressional Budget Office in Washington, D.C.  This information is public knowledge and it clearly indicates that this amount is from the previous administration effective December 31, 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Hendrix</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50863</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Hendrix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50863</guid>
		<description>&quot;Are we really having this discussion&quot;

The issue was over the entire stimulus plan, not the simple set aside. My earlier point remains unchallanged.

On to your next point:

I am an historian and anyone that beleives that the Great Depression was prolonged by the New Deal is so idealogically blind that they are unwilling to confront the stubborn facts.

From 1929 to 1933 when the Republicans had the presidency and the Congress, GDP dropped by 25%, personal dropped from 90 billion to 50 billion, 20% of banks had failed, and unemployment was 25%. Industrial output was halved.

New Deal begins in 1934 and the economy grows by 10.8%, 8.9% in 1935, 13% in 1936 and 5.1% in 1937 (the year the New Deal was scaled back because of deficits). In the same period unemployment goes from 25% to under 10% and economy has recovered to pre-Depression levels.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-stewart/the-great-depression-pt-i_b_154730.html

Now having looked over these facts, explain to me how this made the Depression worse? You need to stop listening to Limbaugh and Amity Shales pushing this silly revisionist history that&#039;s grounded in nothing more than wishful thinking and bad ancedotes.

Here&#039;s a great review of the Conservative myth maker, Shales, on the New Deal:

http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=82c53220-7594-4ece-a136-a3b2f54243ec</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Are we really having this discussion&#8221;</p>
<p>The issue was over the entire stimulus plan, not the simple set aside. My earlier point remains unchallanged.</p>
<p>On to your next point:</p>
<p>I am an historian and anyone that beleives that the Great Depression was prolonged by the New Deal is so idealogically blind that they are unwilling to confront the stubborn facts.</p>
<p>From 1929 to 1933 when the Republicans had the presidency and the Congress, GDP dropped by 25%, personal dropped from 90 billion to 50 billion, 20% of banks had failed, and unemployment was 25%. Industrial output was halved.</p>
<p>New Deal begins in 1934 and the economy grows by 10.8%, 8.9% in 1935, 13% in 1936 and 5.1% in 1937 (the year the New Deal was scaled back because of deficits). In the same period unemployment goes from 25% to under 10% and economy has recovered to pre-Depression levels.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-stewart/the-great-depression-pt-i_b_154730.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-stewart/the-great-depression-pt-i_b_154730.html</a></p>
<p>Now having looked over these facts, explain to me how this made the Depression worse? You need to stop listening to Limbaugh and Amity Shales pushing this silly revisionist history that&#8217;s grounded in nothing more than wishful thinking and bad ancedotes.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a great review of the Conservative myth maker, Shales, on the New Deal:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=82c53220-7594-4ece-a136-a3b2f54243ec" rel="nofollow">http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=82c53220-7594-4ece-a136-a3b2f54243ec</a></p>
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		<title>By: Snead</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50859</link>
		<dc:creator>Snead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50859</guid>
		<description>&quot;Dr. Snead&quot;

Shit, I like that.

Marv, I wouldn&#039;t waste my time reading something written by a guy who said there wouldn&#039;t be a recession. Why waste my time? I might as well read SC blogs; their predictions have the same 50/50 probability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Dr. Snead&#8221;</p>
<p>Shit, I like that.</p>
<p>Marv, I wouldn&#8217;t waste my time reading something written by a guy who said there wouldn&#8217;t be a recession. Why waste my time? I might as well read SC blogs; their predictions have the same 50/50 probability.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50843</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50843</guid>
		<description>Ashley Landiss is a godess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashley Landiss is a godess.</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50842</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50842</guid>
		<description>The government is wasteful. Terribly so.

 I would rather have them send BIG checks to people at random than to attempt these grand plans. They simply are not capable of pulling it off without huge waste and fraud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The government is wasteful. Terribly so.</p>
<p> I would rather have them send BIG checks to people at random than to attempt these grand plans. They simply are not capable of pulling it off without huge waste and fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: Red Bank Bar</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50839</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Bank Bar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50839</guid>
		<description>folks is still morally and intellectually bankrupt, channelling Herbert Hoover.   As a partisan democrat, I like it. Repugnants will never be a Congressional majority in our lifetimes keeping up this sort of plutocratic nonsense.

Expecting Laffer to offer anything of any value on this economy is like expecting folks to tell us how to decrease domestic violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>folks is still morally and intellectually bankrupt, channelling Herbert Hoover.   As a partisan democrat, I like it. Repugnants will never be a Congressional majority in our lifetimes keeping up this sort of plutocratic nonsense.</p>
<p>Expecting Laffer to offer anything of any value on this economy is like expecting folks to tell us how to decrease domestic violence.</p>
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		<title>By: watching marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50830</link>
		<dc:creator>watching marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50830</guid>
		<description>simply put, this guy,sanford, is the biggest doofus, wankerhead to ever be elected to an office of this magnitude...  what the hell does this guy do all day?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>simply put, this guy,sanford, is the biggest doofus, wankerhead to ever be elected to an office of this magnitude&#8230;  what the hell does this guy do all day?</p>
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		<title>By: Marvin</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50829</link>
		<dc:creator>Marvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50829</guid>
		<description>Dr. Snead:  Feel free to evaluate Laffer&#039;s reports and explain in detail why his methodology is flawed, and what the proper way to calculate economic impact would be. 

Dr. Tim: Can&#039;t believe you said the government is the only big enough entity to get the free market moving.  Damn, that was a stupid statement!  Capital is dried up precisely because government has overspent and overborrowed and taken money out of the private sector, which is barely private anymore because so much of it has been subsidized by government. When businesses are irresponsible, they need to absorb the costs and not pass along to taxpayers.  But our House Speaker and Senate Finance Chairman think all of us should assume the risks of &quot;venture capitalists&quot; and crazy clusters....wonder why SC has such high unemployment?  Look no further than the Statehouse for the answer. 

Dr. Pat:  Oh, Geez. High speed rail?  You cannot be serious in this state that we are going to spend money on something that big a waste.  Again -- you could hire a few workers to do some infrastructure projects.  But please explain what happens when the money dries up and those people are out of work.  Hint: there are no jobs for them because the private sector had to spend more of its available capital to pay for the government workers to build its infrastructure instead of its own.  There is no &quot;market&quot; to pull the workers in.  

All of you government employees or lobbyists: The New Deal didn&#039;t end the Depression, it made it worse.  In fact, during the Depression, new excise taxes were imposed that shifted more the tax burden onto the middle class.  The recovery came about from the renewed trade with US allies during the War -- the exchange of actual goods and services.  That&#039;s the only real economic stimulator.

The Policy Council report is cause for alarm, and we better pay attention and start demanding some radically different behavior from the legislature, and fast.  Or we will be in even worse shape in two years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Snead:  Feel free to evaluate Laffer&#8217;s reports and explain in detail why his methodology is flawed, and what the proper way to calculate economic impact would be. </p>
<p>Dr. Tim: Can&#8217;t believe you said the government is the only big enough entity to get the free market moving.  Damn, that was a stupid statement!  Capital is dried up precisely because government has overspent and overborrowed and taken money out of the private sector, which is barely private anymore because so much of it has been subsidized by government. When businesses are irresponsible, they need to absorb the costs and not pass along to taxpayers.  But our House Speaker and Senate Finance Chairman think all of us should assume the risks of &#8220;venture capitalists&#8221; and crazy clusters&#8230;.wonder why SC has such high unemployment?  Look no further than the Statehouse for the answer. </p>
<p>Dr. Pat:  Oh, Geez. High speed rail?  You cannot be serious in this state that we are going to spend money on something that big a waste.  Again &#8212; you could hire a few workers to do some infrastructure projects.  But please explain what happens when the money dries up and those people are out of work.  Hint: there are no jobs for them because the private sector had to spend more of its available capital to pay for the government workers to build its infrastructure instead of its own.  There is no &#8220;market&#8221; to pull the workers in.  </p>
<p>All of you government employees or lobbyists: The New Deal didn&#8217;t end the Depression, it made it worse.  In fact, during the Depression, new excise taxes were imposed that shifted more the tax burden onto the middle class.  The recovery came about from the renewed trade with US allies during the War &#8212; the exchange of actual goods and services.  That&#8217;s the only real economic stimulator.</p>
<p>The Policy Council report is cause for alarm, and we better pay attention and start demanding some radically different behavior from the legislature, and fast.  Or we will be in even worse shape in two years.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50828</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 03:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=17693#comment-50828</guid>
		<description>Econ lesson time: Government doesn&#039;t &quot;create jobs.&quot; It re-distributes wealth.  It literally takes money from some taxpayers and gives it to others, period.  So, you aren&#039;t creating jobs.  Job creation is about a company that starts up based on a need for something, then provides it at a profit. That company pays its employees, and pays its suppliers and its taxes and its service providers, etc.  Money is multiplied, and when the products are good and in demand, there is more revenue to pay more people to create more jobs.  Not so in government.  Government takes tax dollars from companies and citizens, leaving them less money to do all the things that grow the economy, to pay for one &quot;stimulus&quot; worker in a short-term job. 

Think about it...when the money is gone in two years, we&#039;ll have a major spike in unemployment because all those dollars will be gone and there will not have been any long-term jobs created with those dollars, nor anywhere for the unemployed to go to work.  Stimulated jobs go away.  And then everyone pays more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Econ lesson time: Government doesn&#8217;t &#8220;create jobs.&#8221; It re-distributes wealth.  It literally takes money from some taxpayers and gives it to others, period.  So, you aren&#8217;t creating jobs.  Job creation is about a company that starts up based on a need for something, then provides it at a profit. That company pays its employees, and pays its suppliers and its taxes and its service providers, etc.  Money is multiplied, and when the products are good and in demand, there is more revenue to pay more people to create more jobs.  Not so in government.  Government takes tax dollars from companies and citizens, leaving them less money to do all the things that grow the economy, to pay for one &#8220;stimulus&#8221; worker in a short-term job. </p>
<p>Think about it&#8230;when the money is gone in two years, we&#8217;ll have a major spike in unemployment because all those dollars will be gone and there will not have been any long-term jobs created with those dollars, nor anywhere for the unemployed to go to work.  Stimulated jobs go away.  And then everyone pays more.</p>
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		<title>By: Sen. Kevin Bryant: blog from the backbench &#187; Blog Archive &#187; scpc &#38; Laffer: stimulus would have stymied jobs</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/31/the-stimulus-that-actually-costs-jobs/#comment-50824</link>
		<dc:creator>Sen. Kevin Bryant: blog from the backbench &#187; Blog Archive &#187; scpc &#38; Laffer: stimulus would have stymied jobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
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