Stem Cells: Here We Go Again
Nothing gets our libertarian gears any more conflicted than the issue of stem cell research, or for that matter, abortion.
On the one hand, it’s hard to say you support laws that invade a woman’s body.
On the other hand, as far as abortion is concerned, what right could be considered more fundamental to the notion of American liberty than the right to take your first breath?
And isn’t the whole debate over viability really just a rationalization for murderous convenience?
Sure, there are many cases in which abortion is justified, but the fact is millions of lives have been “terminated” in this country for varying levels of convenience.
According to the CDC, there were roughly 820,000 legal abortions performed in the United States in 2005 – the last year for which statistics are available. That’s down from a peak of 1.4 million in 1990, but it’s still too many in our book.
So what does this have to do with stem cell research?
Well, scientists basically want to farm human embryos and then destroy them in order to harvest stem cells – which are the building blocks of life and are apparently ripe with potential cures for diseases.
Last time we checked, though, creating and then destroying embryos is still abortion. Scientists also want to take stem cells from regularly-aborted babies, in some cases paying the mother for the cells.
That’s also incredibly troubling in our book, as we shouldn’t even be providing federal funding for abortions, let alone creating a taxpayer-funded financial incentive for people to have them.
Anyway, in August of 2001 then-President George W. Bush announced a split decision on federal funding for stem cell research, permitting it but only in such instances where human embryos were not destroyed.
Congress tried repeatedly to expand Bush’s narrow decision, but he vetoed those efforts.
Today, President Barack Obama is reversing Bush’s position and permitting embryonic destruction – or in the parlance of the mainstream media, he’s “lifting limits” on embryonic research.
Is that a good thing? Michael J. Fox certainly thinks so. And we’re guessing Christopher Reeve would have thought so, too (expect to see those names all over your TV today).
We’re not sure – the utilitarian side of us says “yes,” but the categorical imperative side of us says “no.”
And maybe we’re hyperventilating over nothing.
All we know is something about it doesn’t feel right, though.
People messing with the creation and destruction of live – for “good” or “evil” – seems like something that is destined to come back and bite us in the ass as a country.
Of course we await your thoughts …
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Comments
By lou on March 9th, 2009 at 8:19 am
not all stem cells come from fetal tissue. would ya’ll mind if we had some of the other kind???
By T4 on March 9th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Moral majority…Fail. You have already lost this battle. Roe v. Wade.
American medical researchers have met an impasse, which is barring them from conducting more susbstantial and accurate research. The strength of our medical community is only as strong as the research conducted, in all areas of medicine. Many areas of medical research can only advance if these invaluable stem cells can be freely obtained, and that is, without “interest group” legislation, you biblethumpers.
If stem cell research is prohibited, medical research will fall idle. Cures for cancer, congenital conditions, and other illnesses may never be realized. And what drives medical research? Capitalism of course, not some obscure “moral agenda.” Medical researchers continue to make unprecedented breakthroughs because they have the freedom and financial drive to do so. What they do not have, is a religious right breathing down their necks, hastening the death of my ailing grandmother, consumed by Alzheimer’s.
By sid on March 9th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Is it ironic that people like MJFox would support as much abortion as possible in order to cure him of his own illness, or just sad? Just think, if there were a way to test for the Parkinson’s gene and the likelihood of developing it when still in the womb when Fox was in that state, maybe his parents would have chosen to kill him to avoid the suffering later in life.
By sid on March 9th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Oh, and T4, you need to get a better understanding of the judicial process. Here’s a question you can research: Has a Supreme Court ruling ever been reversed/overturned/redefined by a later Court?
You also need to accept the concept of morality. It is actually the basis of all functioning, reasonably fair societies. Subjective? Sure, but your apparent “money over morality” view is simply wrong (not to mention twisted).
Sorry for your grandmother. I’ve lost family members to diseases that will one day be cured. I have friends and family currently suffering from diseases that will one day be cured. But I’m not going to support declaring open season on the unborn (and establishing a bounty, no less) just because I’d like to see some folks suffer less or live longer. That’s not a moral bargain I’m willing to make.
I understand it makes it easier for you if you consider babies as lumps of tissue that are more suitable for research than breathing the same air as you. Hey, you got here first, so you get to decide who joins you, right? In effect, you and those who support your immoral viewpoint have decided the “God” of the biblethumpers (that ain’t me, so don’t try to apply the label) should be replaced by the “God” of scientists, bureaucrats, and likeminded folks who will collectively determine the fate of the unborn. Sorry, but your viewpoint sucks.
I guess, by your statement, there has been no medical research since Bush’s order? Wonder what all those scientists have been doing? Oh, that’s right, medical research, you tool. That’s because Bush didn’t say you couldn’t do it. He said there was not to be federal funding for it. Capitalism should have stepped in, which it did, as did some states who said they’d allow funding. Obama is now just saying let federal funds be added to the mix. And here I thought we had a shortage of federal funds, but I guess I was wrong.
Here’s a better idea regarding research. It’s not new, but you would support it, I’m sure. Let’s just use the condemned on death row to further science. They’ve actually done something to warrant such treatment, if such a position can possibly be argued. Put a line on my tax form, and I’ll dedicate some cash to that.
By The Truth on March 9th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Sid you pretentious prick..who are to assume what anyone else would do with such conviction? Do you know Michael J Fox or T4 for that matter? what kind of ass would assume to know what they think or what they want..oh wait i know..a toolbox like you. Do you really think MJFox is hoping for more abortions or anyone hopes for more abortions? of course not you mental midget, it is just a fire line from fox that i meant to inflame passion. Do you mention that almost all of the cells come from embryos that had meant for the trash, yes they where going to be tossed out yet you think even if they toss out an embryo thats abortion, i use to laugh at those that stated life starts at ejacutlaion, oh come on you knwo you are one of the ones that was against the PlanB pill as you thought abortion, even though no pregnancy ever happens, no eggs are ever fertilized.. but your totally deluded mind believes life starts before ejaculation, before semen has travelled down the f-tubes, no you believe life starts before a penis has even been inserted..bang up job pinhead..no go do some research simpleton and try to watch something besides Foxviews for a while..
By fitsnews on March 9th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
It’s gettin’ hot and heavy in here!
Sid and “Truth,” we need to get you guys on our new radio program … (oops) beans spilled.
Seriously though, good stuff!
-FITS
By gary on March 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
How dare you question “The Truth”! The Truth knows all!
By jan blotchsky on March 9th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
How dare you question the All-Knowing “Truth”! You Rube! All intelligence emanates from the bowels of the DNC! Don’t you know, you silly FauxNews minion…
How about this for today’s headline?
President Abortion wages war on the American soul.
March 9, 2009, a day which will live in infamy…
By paul adams on March 9th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
as someone who recently lost his father to alzheimers disease, i explored and tried any and every treatment available in the us to slow the progression of this disease. The only treatment we didn’t try involved stem cells. The europeans are doing fantastic experimental medicine with stem cells using both varieties, embryonic and non-embryonic stem cells.
After all of the hype on stem cell research, British researchers have discovered that two commonly used drugs injected into the spine would be a more beneficial “cure” for alzheimers disease than stem cell therapy. Those commonly used drugs are Enbrel which is used to treat arthritis and Insulin which is used to treat diabetes. Why these two drugs worked in research I don’t know. Will they be made available as treatment in the future…who knows?
Will comedy central rerun the episode of South Park where christopher reeve eats the aborted babies out of the garbage can to get the stem cells…i sure hope so! that was funny as hell.
By Bob Beardon on March 9th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
“The Truth,” you offend me with your “below the belt” insults and angry tirade. Furthermore, T4, I totally diagree with you.
By Winder on March 9th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I support stem cell research. Truth do me a favor and get lost. You are not helping the argument in favor of stem cell research. No one became a convert today because of your rant, though you might have convinced some that abortion is not such a bad thing after all…..
By Crooner on March 9th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
If stem cell research and abortion get your “libertarian gears” conflicted then you are not a libertarian.
By The Truth on March 9th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
ok everyone we have offended Bobby, lets pack it up and go home..notice no one ever argues facts……do facts offend you Bobby???
By Natasha on March 9th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Crooner,
How is that? Part of the basic tenets of libertarianism is that you can do what you want as long as you are not harming another individual in the process. Libertarianism also conveys that others (read government or anyone else) should not tell individuals what they can or cannot do to their body. Am I wrong?
At what point is an embryo an individual and being harmed? Particularly for stem cells not derived from abortion, those should be fine to use for scientific purposes. But again, abortion harms another individual when, it is cellular, when there is a body and a heartbeat, when? At what point is using stem cells from someone that has donated them the government’s business, it’s their body, right?
So, yeah, it is definitely a grey/gray area in my mind.
By JR on March 9th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Stepping outside the morality issue involved…. Europe has been pursuing the ‘holy grail’ of embryonic stem cell research since it was stopped in this country and it is turning out that the science just isnt there. A lot of claims are made everyday to appeal to the emotional side ( Fox, Reeves, etc…) but is is not based on actual research. Sure, they can cure everything from cancer to the common cold- easy to parrot but not so easy to prove. What denying embryologic stem cell research HAS done for US science is made them think outside the box and I think everyone would be quite surprised to discover what has been learned about cellular disease processes in the interium. We have actually made huge advances in the treatment of cancer over the past 10 years ( ever heard of Gleevec? ), and I will be truly surprised if anthing significant comes of this over the next 10. And will it be significant enough or saved enough lives to make everyone comfortable with the moral side of the arguement? up to you.
By phyl247 on March 9th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
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By James the Foot Soldier on March 9th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Note to T4:
We will all die.
Even granny who bless her heart had the good fortune to forget who you are.
By Aquinas on March 9th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
It’s THE basic law of ethics, folks: the ends never justify the means. And for you libertarians concerned with pitting the “utilitarian” against the “categorical imperative”, any serious consideration as to whether any one of us, in whatever stage of “usefulness” (or not) that we find ourselves, has merit, is heading down a slippery slope. I think Dr. Maureen Condic, associate professor of neurobiology and anatomy at the University of Utah School of Medicine, put it very well when she said, “The final argument of those still supporting research on human embryos is that freedom of scientific inquiry demands that research be unrestricted—that science and society will be harmed by placing limits on what scientists can investigate.
“Yet science, like all human endeavors, must operate within the constraints of ethical values. No one seriously believes that freedom of scientific inquiry should trump all other considerations. Good science does not demand that all avenues of inquiry be pursued. The Tuskegee experiments on African American men with syphilis and the Nazi experiments on Jews and disabled persons were not legitimate avenues of scientific investigation and were not justified by the useful information they yielded.”
By rooofus on March 9th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Amen to Aquinas. On second thought, double-amen!
By Heidi on March 10th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Preach it Aquinas!
A staggering glimpse into this ungodly sacrifice of humanity:
“It is estimated that 133.9 million Americans suffer from diseases some claim may be helped by cloning human embryos in order to remove their stem cells for scientific research. If just 10 percent were eligible for therapies derived from human cloning, the potential patient pool would be 13.4 million people.”
Source:
http://www.rirtl.org/site/page.php?s=01_03_02
By The Truth on March 10th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Can someone please tell me what moral issues arise from using an embryo that was going to be thrown out to complete research that might aid millions? Please spare me the rhetroic or name calling and just answer my question… this is classic case of an issue the right has used to inflame its base. No snide remarks, just please tell me how an embryo that was going in the trash shouldnt be used to save someone from cancer, alzheimers etc…
By Heidi on March 10th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Truth,
This “science” is making merchandise of human beings.
If you believe that we are created in the image of God, then it stands to reason that every child is unique and precious in God’s eyes.
Every single one.
By James the Foot Soldier on March 10th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Truth – the question YOU need to answer is why would you THROW OUT AS TRASH a human being??
By Aquinas on March 10th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Truth – you already answered your own question when you rightly chose the word “use”. As I mentioned before, if we start to base the usefulness of other humans only on what they can (or can’t) do for us, then we reduce them to a mere object. Where does it stop? The elderly? Disabled? Just because someone made the first mistake by harvesting embryos like produce does not give others the right to continue the barbaric practice of selective destruction of innocent life – life with enormous potential if given the chance to fully develop.
Millions can be aided with other stem cells not derived from embryos. The science is there, and it’s already gaining ground.
By sid on March 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Looks like Truth likes a big heaping bowl of irony for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. First there’s the obvious with the moniker, but then there’s the cry, “No name calling, just answers,” in the same thread where you simply called me names and didn’t address any of the specific points I raised. Sounds like somebody has some rage issues, not to mention a curious perspective on reality. Oh, and didn’t Truth also assume things I think in the same rant where such action was condemned? Good stuff. Reallt, really good stuff.
By Heidi on March 11th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
“…the potential patient pool would be 13.4 million people.”
Meaning:
The number of innocent lives harvested as “produce” = 13.4 million children
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By Delores on May 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
“Embronic” stem cells come from embryos that are donated from couples that wanted intro vitro fertilization and had fertilized eggs left over. They could either keep them frozen, destroy them or donate them. They get embronic stems cells from fertilized eggs that are let to divide until 3 to 5 days. These cells are important to stem cell research because they have not changed into a definite cell like a blood cell, ski cell, muscle cell or bone or brain cell. These cells are like a blank check and they can be manipulated to being what ever cell they are trying to make. That is why “embronic stem cells” are important. Scientists can make stem cells from your own body like brain, bone, heart or whatever but those cells are adult stem cells and CAN NOT be changed into a different cell – a brain cell cant turn into a bone cell. The embronic cell no blood cells – its a fertilized egg that is dividing and dividing but before it turns into a definite cell like starts changing into blood cells the scientist take some cells out and put them in their own dish and start over making new embronic stem cells from the ones they have – that is where they get a line of embronic stem cells from research. They don’t take embronic stem cells from babies – if they did – they would be adult stem cells that have turned from embronic cells to brain, bone, blood or whatever cell. Do some research and understand where they come from. I have heard that they take stem cells from 9 month old aborted fetsus’ which is not true. If they really got stem cells from aborted babies then they would not be short on them – they would be over flowed with them since so many abortion happen every day – think about it. Don’t listen to people that dont’ know – look it up yourself. Only 1% of aborts are on fetsus that are over 24 months – those are for medical emergency or if the baby has severe problems. Yes, aborts happen, yes they are bad but embronic stem cells come from a labatory using “donated” intro vitro fertilized eggs that are no longer needed since the couple had the babies they wanted – they are extra and instead of destroying them they chose to give them to research.
By Delores on May 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Everybody has stem cells in their body – that is how your body fixes injuries like broken bones, cuts and what not. We have stem cells in our blood – where do you think they get bone marrow transplants from. If we did not allow this type of reserach then lukemia and bone marrow transplant patients would die. It is needed and I am sure if you or your mother, father, sister, brother or child needed a bone marrow transplant – I am sure you would want this research to be done.