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	<title>Comments on: Robert Ford Is What?</title>
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		<title>By: baker</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48599</link>
		<dc:creator>baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48599</guid>
		<description>Yes -- I think that could be a problem for individual districts or schools. If the choice takes place within a district -- and I think magnet schools present real opportunities for choice where they can work (as with private schools, it may be easier to come up with a variety of magnet options in larger towns) -- if the choice is within a district, then that district can likely iron out costs a little easier. 

By all means, school finance is a tricky matter. If School A loses 50 students, along with money &quot;following the child&quot; to a private school or another public school, then School A is likely to feel a crunch....or its district will feel a crunch. At the same time, if School A were to lose 200 students, then maybe its district could close the school and save money....that&#039;s where a school choice plan, if it drew students out of a given school at that large a number, might have the effect of saving a public school district money. 

Generally, in the same way Will Folks and others say we have too many small school districts, smaller schools also cost more to run. Of course, there are problems associated with &quot;mega-schools&quot; (and mega-districts, if you ask me), too, and some parents and educators think small schools are the best model. 

But, anyway, yeah -- Jim Rex&#039;s plan likely would have created some headaches and financial issues for a number of public school districts. I never said I was wild about his plan -- only that I think it would have spoken to your comment that your child&#039;s district wouldn&#039;t have granted a transfer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8212; I think that could be a problem for individual districts or schools. If the choice takes place within a district &#8212; and I think magnet schools present real opportunities for choice where they can work (as with private schools, it may be easier to come up with a variety of magnet options in larger towns) &#8212; if the choice is within a district, then that district can likely iron out costs a little easier. </p>
<p>By all means, school finance is a tricky matter. If School A loses 50 students, along with money &#8220;following the child&#8221; to a private school or another public school, then School A is likely to feel a crunch&#8230;.or its district will feel a crunch. At the same time, if School A were to lose 200 students, then maybe its district could close the school and save money&#8230;.that&#8217;s where a school choice plan, if it drew students out of a given school at that large a number, might have the effect of saving a public school district money. </p>
<p>Generally, in the same way Will Folks and others say we have too many small school districts, smaller schools also cost more to run. Of course, there are problems associated with &#8220;mega-schools&#8221; (and mega-districts, if you ask me), too, and some parents and educators think small schools are the best model. </p>
<p>But, anyway, yeah &#8212; Jim Rex&#8217;s plan likely would have created some headaches and financial issues for a number of public school districts. I never said I was wild about his plan &#8212; only that I think it would have spoken to your comment that your child&#8217;s district wouldn&#8217;t have granted a transfer.</p>
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		<title>By: Its about time</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48551</link>
		<dc:creator>Its about time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48551</guid>
		<description>Baker- Under Rex&#039;s plan kids could transfer to another school district.  If they took all of the state money with them to pay for it, wouldn&#039;t that leave the school they transferred out of in worse financial shape than just loosing $2500 with a Tax Credit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baker- Under Rex&#8217;s plan kids could transfer to another school district.  If they took all of the state money with them to pay for it, wouldn&#8217;t that leave the school they transferred out of in worse financial shape than just loosing $2500 with a Tax Credit?</p>
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		<title>By: baker</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48529</link>
		<dc:creator>baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48529</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t &quot;argue against change no matter what.&quot; 

I just am not a fan of PPIC and version of private &quot;school choice&quot; I&#039;ve heard touted most strongly in South Carolina. Again, I think the proposal Jim Rex supported would have spoken to your family&#039;s situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t &#8220;argue against change no matter what.&#8221; </p>
<p>I just am not a fan of PPIC and version of private &#8220;school choice&#8221; I&#8217;ve heard touted most strongly in South Carolina. Again, I think the proposal Jim Rex supported would have spoken to your family&#8217;s situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Its about time</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48524</link>
		<dc:creator>Its about time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see Baker, you will argue against change no matter what.  I guess that&#039;s because as you said, your child is in already in a good school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see Baker, you will argue against change no matter what.  I guess that&#8217;s because as you said, your child is in already in a good school.</p>
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		<title>By: baker</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48508</link>
		<dc:creator>baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48508</guid>
		<description>**&quot;Aunt Bee&quot; -- Seems to me that there are plenty of insults coming from all sides in this debate. The insults come from Will Folks and SCRG and others almost daily here online and elsewhere, don&#039;t they? And, yes, they&#039;ve come from the other side, as well. All in all, the school choice debate hasn&#039;t been conducted in a very healthy way in South Carolina.


**&quot;Red Bank Sucks&quot; -- Any school that does not properly teach reading has problems. I personally don&#039;t see any reason NOT to use Social Studies topics as an entry-point for reading instruction. At the same time, if it&#039;s confusing to the children and parents, then I can see where there could be a problem. I would hope parents&#039; complaints -- if there are others with your concerns -- will be taken seriously. 

Meanwhile, Jim Rex supported a plan whereby your child would be admitted into another public school district. &quot;Choice&quot; advocate Mark Sanford opposed that plan. I&#039;m not arguing that Rex&#039;s plan was a cure-all, by any stretch....but I do think it may have very well addressed your situtation.


**&quot;Its about time&quot; -- I think my argument is entirely valid. I admire your interest in seeing a policy even if it only &quot;helps one child.&quot; I could think of a lot of policy changes that might benefit individual children or families. But while it may be sad and frustrating, common sense tells us that broad public policy must align resources in a way that has the best chance of helping the most people -- or those with the most need. 

But, hey -- I&#039;ve said over and over that if we could come up with a voucher plan that&#039;s (A) targeted on our neediest students, (B) guarantees entry into a solid private school, and (C) provides transportation for those who need it, then that might be great. 

Of course, &quot;Put Parents in Charge,&quot; which Will Folks and SCRG and others have touted, does nothing of the sort. In fact, it doesn&#039;t guarantee anything to the poorest families in our state -- or those students with the greatest academic and behavioral challenges. So, from a practical standpoint, I don&#039;t see a plan like PPIC as the best chance of improving and reforming education in South Carolina. (In other places, I have listed proposals that I DO think can work.) 

And you mention this deal of public schools saving money when the &quot;money follows the child.&quot; But as I and others have explained many times, it isn&#039;t that simple. For example, you suggest they&#039;ll save transportation costs: Unless the kid going to a private school lives in the utter boonies, there isn&#039;t much likelihood that the public school system will be able to delete or greatly alter a bus route. My guess is that very little-to-no money will be saved in the vast majority of cases. 

Of course, since we&#039;re on the topic of transportation....since the hypothetical student needs transportation, that&#039;ll be a likely deal-breaker unless the private school or the $2,500 tax credit (or scholarship or voucher....) comes with money to provide transportation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>**&#8221;Aunt Bee&#8221; &#8212; Seems to me that there are plenty of insults coming from all sides in this debate. The insults come from Will Folks and SCRG and others almost daily here online and elsewhere, don&#8217;t they? And, yes, they&#8217;ve come from the other side, as well. All in all, the school choice debate hasn&#8217;t been conducted in a very healthy way in South Carolina.</p>
<p>**&#8221;Red Bank Sucks&#8221; &#8212; Any school that does not properly teach reading has problems. I personally don&#8217;t see any reason NOT to use Social Studies topics as an entry-point for reading instruction. At the same time, if it&#8217;s confusing to the children and parents, then I can see where there could be a problem. I would hope parents&#8217; complaints &#8212; if there are others with your concerns &#8212; will be taken seriously. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, Jim Rex supported a plan whereby your child would be admitted into another public school district. &#8220;Choice&#8221; advocate Mark Sanford opposed that plan. I&#8217;m not arguing that Rex&#8217;s plan was a cure-all, by any stretch&#8230;.but I do think it may have very well addressed your situtation.</p>
<p>**&#8221;Its about time&#8221; &#8212; I think my argument is entirely valid. I admire your interest in seeing a policy even if it only &#8220;helps one child.&#8221; I could think of a lot of policy changes that might benefit individual children or families. But while it may be sad and frustrating, common sense tells us that broad public policy must align resources in a way that has the best chance of helping the most people &#8212; or those with the most need. </p>
<p>But, hey &#8212; I&#8217;ve said over and over that if we could come up with a voucher plan that&#8217;s (A) targeted on our neediest students, (B) guarantees entry into a solid private school, and (C) provides transportation for those who need it, then that might be great. </p>
<p>Of course, &#8220;Put Parents in Charge,&#8221; which Will Folks and SCRG and others have touted, does nothing of the sort. In fact, it doesn&#8217;t guarantee anything to the poorest families in our state &#8212; or those students with the greatest academic and behavioral challenges. So, from a practical standpoint, I don&#8217;t see a plan like PPIC as the best chance of improving and reforming education in South Carolina. (In other places, I have listed proposals that I DO think can work.) </p>
<p>And you mention this deal of public schools saving money when the &#8220;money follows the child.&#8221; But as I and others have explained many times, it isn&#8217;t that simple. For example, you suggest they&#8217;ll save transportation costs: Unless the kid going to a private school lives in the utter boonies, there isn&#8217;t much likelihood that the public school system will be able to delete or greatly alter a bus route. My guess is that very little-to-no money will be saved in the vast majority of cases. </p>
<p>Of course, since we&#8217;re on the topic of transportation&#8230;.since the hypothetical student needs transportation, that&#8217;ll be a likely deal-breaker unless the private school or the $2,500 tax credit (or scholarship or voucher&#8230;.) comes with money to provide transportation.</p>
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		<title>By: Aunt Bee</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48500</link>
		<dc:creator>Aunt Bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48500</guid>
		<description>Red Bank Bar, I would LOVE to hear your suggestions or ideas to improve the abysmal state of public education in SC.  Your entire post was so rich with insults, it made me wonder if you :
a) teach in SC public schools 
b) work as one of the many administrators in one of the vast numbers of districts we have, or 
c) work for the anti-choice movement as a paid hack.  Which one is it?  Please reply, I can hardly wait to read your ideas. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Red Bank Bar, I would LOVE to hear your suggestions or ideas to improve the abysmal state of public education in SC.  Your entire post was so rich with insults, it made me wonder if you :<br />
a) teach in SC public schools<br />
b) work as one of the many administrators in one of the vast numbers of districts we have, or<br />
c) work for the anti-choice movement as a paid hack.  Which one is it?  Please reply, I can hardly wait to read your ideas. . .</p>
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		<title>By: Red Bank Sucks</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48488</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Bank Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48488</guid>
		<description>Baker, 

You&#039;re right...I wasn&#039;t clear.  The freakin&#039; school QUIT TEACHING READING, instead focusing on Social Studies as a substitute, &quot;pulling&quot; reading skills by studying Social Studies.

Does that really sound like a sound doctrine to you?  I never finished college, but I can hold my own intellectually, because I read constantly.  Damn near all I learned after high school came from self-study and reading.

My daughter, in her second year of private school, reads better, and enjoys reading, since it&#039;s a subject on its own, not clumped together with Social Studies with a confusing system of two letter grades.

Your child being in a good school, accents my point, it doesn&#039;t negate it.  You have a great school system, I don&#039;t.  So, I&#039;m screwed, you&#039;re not, and I can&#039;t transfer her to another district, the Board will turn me down flat.  I&#039;m trapped, and as such, I want some of my money back to offset the failures that I&#039;m rectifying in private school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baker, </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right&#8230;I wasn&#8217;t clear.  The freakin&#8217; school QUIT TEACHING READING, instead focusing on Social Studies as a substitute, &#8220;pulling&#8221; reading skills by studying Social Studies.</p>
<p>Does that really sound like a sound doctrine to you?  I never finished college, but I can hold my own intellectually, because I read constantly.  Damn near all I learned after high school came from self-study and reading.</p>
<p>My daughter, in her second year of private school, reads better, and enjoys reading, since it&#8217;s a subject on its own, not clumped together with Social Studies with a confusing system of two letter grades.</p>
<p>Your child being in a good school, accents my point, it doesn&#8217;t negate it.  You have a great school system, I don&#8217;t.  So, I&#8217;m screwed, you&#8217;re not, and I can&#8217;t transfer her to another district, the Board will turn me down flat.  I&#8217;m trapped, and as such, I want some of my money back to offset the failures that I&#8217;m rectifying in private school.</p>
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		<title>By: Its about time</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48480</link>
		<dc:creator>Its about time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48480</guid>
		<description>Baker your point is not valid.  Your kid has a good school to go to.  If this helps one child get into a school that they would otherwise not be able to afford (and I promise it will help many)it will be worth it.  It takes $2500 out of the system, but leaves $9500 in state, federal and local funds on average and the public school system doesn&#039;t have the cost of educating and transporting that child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baker your point is not valid.  Your kid has a good school to go to.  If this helps one child get into a school that they would otherwise not be able to afford (and I promise it will help many)it will be worth it.  It takes $2500 out of the system, but leaves $9500 in state, federal and local funds on average and the public school system doesn&#8217;t have the cost of educating and transporting that child.</p>
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		<title>By: baker</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48474</link>
		<dc:creator>baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48474</guid>
		<description>Aquinas -- That&#039;s a good story. I&#039;m glad that school was there for you and your classmates. 

My point remains valid, however....unless the school you attended was in the county where I live. The fact that &quot;there is such A place&quot; in SC doesn&#039;t do a darn thing for kids who don&#039;t live in that community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aquinas &#8212; That&#8217;s a good story. I&#8217;m glad that school was there for you and your classmates. </p>
<p>My point remains valid, however&#8230;.unless the school you attended was in the county where I live. The fact that &#8220;there is such A place&#8221; in SC doesn&#8217;t do a darn thing for kids who don&#8217;t live in that community.</p>
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		<title>By: Aquinas</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/03/02/robert-ford-is-what/#comment-48434</link>
		<dc:creator>Aquinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=15147#comment-48434</guid>
		<description>Baker, you stated that your &quot;child has a few classmates who seem to be struggling in class. I don’t think there is a single private school in our county that would accept those students….even if the $2,500 was enough to cover tuition at and transporation to those schools.&quot;  Well, I&#039;m proof that right here in SC there is such a place, because I graduated from a private high school that was the last resort for all the dropouts and delinquents from every public school in the area.  Some of my classmates were pretty cool, many of them had issues, but all of them were accepted.  And we graduated together.  &#039;Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baker, you stated that your &#8220;child has a few classmates who seem to be struggling in class. I don’t think there is a single private school in our county that would accept those students….even if the $2,500 was enough to cover tuition at and transporation to those schools.&#8221;  Well, I&#8217;m proof that right here in SC there is such a place, because I graduated from a private high school that was the last resort for all the dropouts and delinquents from every public school in the area.  Some of my classmates were pretty cool, many of them had issues, but all of them were accepted.  And we graduated together.  &#8216;Nuff said.</p>
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