We’ll be honest … our relationship with the Charleston (S.C.) School of Law hasn’t exactly been symbiotic.
On the one hand, finding creative ways to make fun of the institution has dramatically enhanced our readership. On the other hand it’s apparently cheapened the value of the degrees the school hands out.
In other words, it’s been very good for us but very bad for CSOL, which would probably make our relationship not unlike the kind a hungry lioness has with a “slow zebra.”
Anyway, we’re not trying to be cute (or presumptuous) here … but the point about “diminished degree value” was actually raised by a FITS fan (and recent CSOL graduate) who contacted us the other day.
“While I acknowledge your website is for both entertainment and informative purposes, some level of harm was done to the value of my degree by (FITS) stories,” this reader informed us. “But I harbor no ill will towards you, the countless hours of entertainment and the plethora of pictures of beautiful women more than mitigates any damage than may have been done.”
Talk about a great way to make your point … which in this case was a request that we take note of the fact that 77% of CSOL’s most recent graduating class passed the South Carolina bar exam.
“Our total passage rate was 72.2% as compared to the July 2007 exam in which it was 69.9%, a net increase of 2.1%. USC, by contrast, had a passage rate of 86.4% as compared to 91.5% in July 2007, a decrease of 5.1%.”
Duly noted. And nice work, grasshopper.
Incidentally, our founding editor was invited to speak to the Charleston School of Law earlier this year, an invitation he is inclined to accept over the objections of his security detail.
By HIPAA Violator November 11, 2008 at 1:22 am
CSOL still did worse than out of state law schools (pass rate of 75.84%), which is pretty bad considering CSOL focuses on the SC Bar and out of state schools obviously do not. They were also lower than the state-wide pass average of 78.35%. Still, the factual basis for this post can’t be disputed…they have improved from a dreadful pass percentage to one that can now only be described as mediocre. Go CSOL!!!!
By Give Me a Break November 11, 2008 at 1:57 am
This email is typical of CSOL students. CSOL admistration and students live to compare themselves to USC. Take it from a current USC Law student: USC Law is not that good. Find someone else to compare yourself to. Don’t get me wrong: if we wanted to be at CSOL, we could be. Most of CSOL students cannot say the same. Anyway, budget cuts are crippling us now. Must be nice now to have that private money.
By Lurch November 11, 2008 at 9:55 am
Go for it. They probably can’t aim worth a sh*t.
By JB November 11, 2008 at 9:55 am
What would CSOL’s passage rate be if they included the part time students bar results?
By Earl Capps November 11, 2008 at 1:04 pm
If lawyers are mostly liberal Democrats, that that would likely mean most of them believe in gun control or outright prohibition. Therefore, you should be safe there. I say go for it.
By Matt November 11, 2008 at 1:19 pm
USC law shouldn’t be crippled by budget cuts, considering a lot of the money is siphoned off to the rest of the university (empty InVista buildings I suppose). There is no way that it should cost so much to go to such a crappy school. If USC law wanted to be good (or the trustees would let it) it would simply reduce tuition and cut the number of seats. It is unconscionable to me that both USC and CSOL let so many people in knowing that they all wont be able to find a job.
By justme November 11, 2008 at 2:54 pm
People who write on this blog need to learn to punctuate.
E.g., It is “part-time” and “students’ bar results” – note the hyphen and apostrophe. And “won’t” – again, note the apostrophe.
And CSOL would be referred to as “it” not “they” – it is a single entity.
By just Wondern November 11, 2008 at 4:27 pm
justme….Please bear in mind that many who write on this blog have a S.C. public school education.
By USC isn't Ivy League but . . . November 11, 2008 at 5:22 pm
As a current USC Law student, I find it funny how whenever I visit my friends down at CSOL, they and their roommates seem to always ask what we USC students think about them (implying that there is some sort of rivalry). What I tell them is that everyone I know at USC Law genuinely does not give a shit about CSOL. There are no feelings of animosity from USC students towards CSOL except for the occasional gripe about children of lawyers going to CSOL that couldn’t get in anywhere else landing sweet jobs they don’t deserve. Hating on CSOL is like a Furman undergrad hating on Midlands Tech; it just doesn’t make sense. This “not giving a shit” attitude I am afraid to say is not possessed by CSOL students towards USC Law(always finding ways to trash it to boost their self esteem).
I am sure that CSOL will be a great school and one day actually surpass USC Law if the USC alums keep giving us the shaft. Better nightlife, better looking women, and the fact that it is in freggin Charleston will certainly help it on its way. That being said, give me a break.
With the rare exception of those who already have a job locked down (parent a lawyer), or are just plain in love with Chucktown, it would be ridiculous to go to Charleston over USC Law. USC has better profs, students, bar passage rate, admission, price, library, recognition, and balls. Charleston right now is a backup, backup school.
Why am I writing this? I don’t know. I guess it is because some nasal voiced CSOL kid (similar attitude to “justme” above) said when I went down to Charleston, “I heard USC sucked” for no reason whatsoever. Get over it.
By justme November 11, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Dear Just Wondern:
But I, too, have a SC public school education – really.
By Question1234 November 11, 2008 at 11:01 pm
To USC isn’t Ivy League but….
You said, “USC has better profs, students, bar passage rate, admission, price, library, recognition, and balls.”
Well, if USC has “better profs” why do so many of them keep leaving to come to CSOL?
Also, if USC’s students/admission is so much better, how come a law school that’s only been open for 5 years have LSAT scores only 5 points below USC Law, a school that has been open for over 100 years?
And, exactly what “recognition” are you speaking of? Many of the most important figures in SC support the Charleston School of Law. Also, most of USC’s alumni won’t even donate to their new building fund. Sounds like great recognition on USC’s part.
And, when you say “balls” are you referring to the Barrister’s Ball? Because if you are trying to argue that then you are just ignorant. But, on a side note, CSOL has theirs at the Charleston Acquarium, which is right on the harbor-front. Where does USC have theirs?
One last point, you said that USC Law students dont give a shit about CSOL… then why did you say all this stuff comparing the 2 schools and trying to degrade CSOL? A little jealous, huh?
By Ridic November 12, 2008 at 1:17 am
These CSOL people will never stop. They are true believers. They are probably the same people that think USC is poised to win the SEC next year (or the next year).
The school is a joke to every firm in the state.
They continue to raise tuition costs (now $32k + Charleston housing), raise enrollment (250+/yr now), but not actually have anybody pass the Bar Exam and get real jobs. (Try to find their employment stats on their website.)
It will be interesting to see how this for-profit business weathers the downturn.
By CSOLove November 12, 2008 at 2:18 am
Sic: Can you spend 8hrs trying to find the CSOL career stats up on their website? This data is required to be disclosed of all (real) ABA schools. When you get to the end of this it is going to be better “math” than the guys in Lex/Rich 5 tried to pull.
By rick November 12, 2008 at 9:05 am
Sounds like an opportunity to shut both down and give South Carolina residents some peace of mind. Less lawyers mean less sharks in the water looking for food.
By Cuts November 12, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Matt: You don’t believe we are getting even crappier because of the legislature’s drastic budget cuts? You should come to the Law School Dean’s townhall meeting today at 12:40. Here is how bad it is: 1) The school can no longer pay any adjunct faculty members so some of these courses are no longer offered beginning next semester 2) We are letting in 25 additional students next year to make up budget shortfalls 3) We are cutting travel funds to groups such as Moot Court and Mock Trial for competitions that give us national exposure 4) Tuition is rising at least 7% and probably more next year.
I agree with your statement. People think lawyers are getting rich. In all actually there are no prospective jobs. The market is tighter than tight for graduates of any lawyer school, much less USC or CSOL. This reflects why the average attorney in SC has a yearly income of around $40-45 K. Letting more students in who believe they will get jobs that satisfy the investment they make in 3 years of graduate school is negligent and misleading.
Rick: Your comment deserves no response but I will give it one anyway. Lawyers are important in nearly every area of life to the average person and give back much time in pro bono work throughout the state. Show me another profession where it is mandated that members take assigned pro bono cases under court appointment. I haven’t heard of doctors, accountants, etc being required to work for free. Consider the professions average salary in this state, the fact that lawyers serve a multitude of purposes in every day life, and are required to give their time and expertise free and explain again why your broad statement equating lawyers to “sharks in the water looking for food” is logical.
By Informer November 12, 2008 at 1:15 pm
CSOL is a total joke. They are going to get crushed after they spit out a few hundred more lawyers with $200k in loans and no jobs. The gig wil be up. Anyone notice they have no emploment stats and a new CSO Director…?
By Just a thought or two November 12, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I really do not know why I am wasting my time to jump in this one but I will. Out of full disclosure I will state that I currently attend CSOL and I am involved with many organizations here. First of all in response to an earlier comment about the part-time numbers being in there, they are the 72% happens to reflect the school’s total number, it has just been established that 84% is the total pass rate for the full-time students. How does this number stack up against USC I think you can see for yourself. In response to the comments about the jobs I do not understand where people are getting their information. There are countless people in my class (2L) that have secured wonderful jobs here in Charleston, and it is not just because of their families. I think maybe these people who harbor no ill will but get on this blog and complain may have some jealousy they will not admit. To dismiss a school whose admission numbers and BAR numbers go up each year (while the other school that is used to being the only game in town has a dropping number on BAR rates, and a flat line in admissions with a crumbling building) is an absolute effort to deny things are getting better each year, as expected. While the first few classes did not have a choice on where to go and the numbers were low as expected with any new school, things are improving.
By Y'all suk November 12, 2008 at 3:26 pm
For a school that has been around for almost a century and half but barley manages to be in the top 100, USC law students should just hang your head low and remain silent. This “rivalry” is a joke.
I went to a law school ranked far higher than both schools, but that doesn’t make me any better than any USC or CSOL student. What makes me better is that I’ll take you to school on an appeal any day of the week.
The true test is who’s client makes out better. So take it to the courtroom, and let these petty arguments go.
By Matt November 12, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Well, given that the first time passage rate was 77%, as opposed to 69% for last year’s class (or perhaps, more accurately put 64%), this has to be seen as a pretty big victory. This year’s class (which has been more competitive than the last one, which was more competitive than the first) should represent another significant jump in passage rate for first-time test takers.
By Ron November 12, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Are you people for real? If you Chicken University Law kids really “don’t give a shit” about CSOL, why did I just read through post after post of you twits bitching about it? I’m a CSOL student, and I can honestly say that I don’t give a shit about CSOL except as a means to an end. I care even less about Chicken Law. I’m here to get a JD, pass the bar, and get a job. I went to CSOL over other, “better” schools because I’m an ADULT who lives in the Charleston area, have a house here, and had a wife who works here. I’m not worried about any of the kids here beating me out for a job, and I’m sure as hell not worried about any of you gomers beating me out for a job. If you were taking care of your own business you’d spend all the spare time you spend here simpering about CSOL washing the sand out of your panties and doing your work.
Our bar pass rate is what it is. It blows but is steadily improving. Yours is adequate but declining. CSOL is a startup and a growing concern, and it probably isn’t going away. Chicken Law isn’t going anywhere, either. Take a grown-up pill and adjust to the fact that you don’t have a monopoly on the law school game anymore. C’est la guerre.
And “Y’all suck” is absolutely correct in his/her assertion that it doesn’t matter where you go, it matters what you do when you get out and start working in the real world. I hope you all handle what looks like, for most of you, will be your first real jobs better than you’ve handled the earth-shattering notion of having another law school in the same state.
By Are you guys serious? November 12, 2008 at 5:00 pm
USC Students claim they don’t care about CSOL, yet can’t refuse to make comments. Truth is, in a competitive economic environment, the students from both schools care. It only makes sense.
And to think that you will automatically receive jobs over CSOL Students based simply on Bar Passage Rate and how long the school has been operating shows your lack of how the world operates.
This argument is ridiculous, especially considering a school that has been around as long as USC to be compared to one in its 5th year. Says more about the progress of CSOL than the superiority of USC.
By Richard November 12, 2008 at 5:33 pm
It’s very funny that most of the CSOL students are graduates of USC and travel back for the football games almost every week yet the students of the law school slam CSOL when the students have so much loyalty to USC. What does this say about USC’s undergraduate program? It’s just all very sad. Plus, we all know who the only true “Carolina” is, USC is not it and comes no where close.
By CSOLemploymentstats November 12, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Below is a link to CSOL’s employment stats. 95% employment for class of 2007 (CSOL’s FIRST class)
http://www.charlestonlaw.edu/careerservices/docs/08.08.employer_brochure.pdf
—————————————————————————–
USC Law= 97%… doesn’t differntiate b/t class years on website
http://law.sc.edu/career/
By Janus November 12, 2008 at 9:48 pm
LSAT: 162
Undergrad GPA: 3.37
Undergrad Institution: University of South Carolina Honors College
Scholarships for Law School: $7,500 a year from USC. That’s right, a half ride.
Lawyers in Family: 0
Where did I go? CSOL.
Why?
Because USC hasn’t had a steady Dean since I’d been at Carolina. Because their building is a remnant from the 70′s and it’s uglier than sin. Because Carolina Law fell from being ranked in the top 50 to the bottom of the top 100 while I was in undergrad. Because even though it’s that old, it can’t compare to Duke or even UNC. Because it had no vision, no drive, and seemed stuck. And after 4 years of Columbia, can you blame me for needing a break from the town?
Let’s be honest, we’re all free market folks here, CSOL is good for this state. Both schools are going to push each other to be much better.
By Concerned November 13, 2008 at 12:03 am
Relax. . . A graduate of one school will have to practice with and against a graduate of the other school and there is nothing anyone can do to change that. It would be best to get over your differences.
By USC isn't Ivy League but . . . November 13, 2008 at 2:46 am
Ha ha. Guess I stirred the pot. Now lets turn up the heat.
A few responses:
1) I was not referring to “balls” as in parties. It was a poor attempt at humor.
2) Janus. If you are telling the truth, I bet you regret that decision every day. Hopefully its not too late for you to transfer.
The reason for all this “bashing” is perhaps due to the fact that the job market is so shitty. If firms were handing out jobs left and right, I wouldn’t have to note that CSOL is in all honesty one of the worst law schools in the country. I hope it gets better one day. Just not now while I am trying to get a damn job. I mean seriously, a retarded preschooler could get into CSOL; and they do. Why hire a CSOL student when there are so many more qualified students at USC. It doesn’t make sense and is too risky. There is a really good chance when hiring a CSOL student that you will be getting a student who could not get in anywhere else and shouldn’t have.
Hiring: CSOL grad – up your malpractice insurance
USC grad- same high quality as always (History shows USC actually does produce great lawyers)
Most of you employers went to USC. It is still by far the best school in the state. Support your alma mater by hiring USC grads.
By USC isn't Ivy League but . . . November 13, 2008 at 3:04 am
OK my last post goes a bit too far. CSOL has some good students, and hopefully students from both schools will benefit. Yeah CSOL! Yeah USC!
By Question1234 November 13, 2008 at 3:43 am
To USC isn’t Ivy League but…
From your above post, its quite clear you a fighting for your “right” as a USC Law to deserve a job over the student from a different & new school. You think you are better than they are. You don’t want them to be able to work in your world.
Based on your reasoning, you are the same type of ignorant person that didn’t want the student from the different & new school (a black child) to be mixed into your world before the 1960s. You are the supremacist-type individual that needs to get a reality check.
By USC isn't Ivy League but . . . November 13, 2008 at 1:23 pm
To question 1234:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are an idiot
By Arm Pit of the South November 13, 2008 at 2:10 pm
part of the problem w/ CSOL is that they have a part time program, which is made up of idiots. It brings down the entire school’s scores. Also, the school’s academic requirements to stay in school are laughable. Basically, once you are in, you can skate through (making bad grades of course), but still graduate and sit for the bar and make CSOL look poor.
I would, however, put CSOL’s full time student body up against USC’s any day.
By You're right, USC isn't Ivy League November 13, 2008 at 2:18 pm
USC isn’t Ivy League, you are the idiot if you actually believe that crap you are writing.
But, if you think you are so ‘deserving’ of a job why don’t you just post your resume here. I’m sure their are some USC grads just waiting to hire their own kind.
Better yet, be a man and just post your name. I bet you feel real good behind your computer. The only thing that you have said that is accurate is that USC is not Ivy League, in fact it is nowhere near Ivy League. Maybe we should get some Wofford or Furman grads on this board to talk crap to you for going to USC. Oh wait, I am one…you went to USC???…how embarrassing.
By USC isn't Ivy League but . . . November 13, 2008 at 3:09 pm
1) I didn’t go to USC
2) My whole point in these postings is to entertain myself by getting peoples panties in a bunch. I guess it worked
By You're right, USC isn't Ivy League November 13, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Maybe you should be spending more time trying to find a job as opposed to biching about not having one.