<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Howie Bin Laden?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/</link>
	<description>Unfair ... Imbalanced</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:38:09 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Awwww, Puddin&#8217; :: FITSNews</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-37357</link>
		<dc:creator>Awwww, Puddin&#8217; :: FITSNews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-37357</guid>
		<description>[...] institutional forces so slavishly that they&#8217;ve become little more than a mouthpiece for the harshest negative attacks against people who are actually fighting to turn this state [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] institutional forces so slavishly that they&#8217;ve become little more than a mouthpiece for the harshest negative attacks against people who are actually fighting to turn this state [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SC Lawyer III</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-31351</link>
		<dc:creator>SC Lawyer III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-31351</guid>
		<description>When I say demographics, I am thinking of socio-econmic factors like income, education level of the parents, and time resources of the parent to interact with the children.  

I don&#039;t know why you chose to interpret that as an indictment based on racial classifaction.  

The best predictor for success in a child can be made by looking at the figures at home who are responsible for setting the child&#039;s goals.  

There is only so much that a teacher can accomplish with children who have not had people at home preparing them for school and almost nothing a teacher can accomplish with children whose parents do not instill the importance of education in them.  

The only solution for that would be a massive infusion of pre-school education, which unfortunately, if not mandatory, would only help those who took the initiative to take advantage of it.

................

As for accountability, there are few things more accountable than schools, which are managed at the district level with policies set by school boards, with PTAs having significant influence over schools and principals.  Moreover, on the state level, policy is advanced and made by your own legislators.  Public education is every bit as accountable as any other public endeavour.  

Those who are dissatisified, can and do seek alternative schooling.  Now, proponents of that approach desire their choice to be subsidized by taxpayer money, despite the fact that the taxpayer subsidies are extremely unlikely to help those who are already without means.  

Those wonderful private schools that are always illustrated as the example of why public school is terrible aren&#039;t something that a tax credit or a voucher is going to enable those with the biggest problems in the public school to take advantage of.  

In the same way that the lottery takes money from those foolish enough to spend their money on a financially ridiculous proposition to subsidize higher education, so too would the allocation of taxpayer money to subsidize private education be a rather cynical distribution of revenues.

If the state wanted to do something to help failing schools it would be an investment in mandatory preschool education where children who will go on to fall behind their peers might be given the basic skills necessary to succeed.  

But that would be too expensive and too intrusive for those that aren&#039;t really the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I say demographics, I am thinking of socio-econmic factors like income, education level of the parents, and time resources of the parent to interact with the children.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why you chose to interpret that as an indictment based on racial classifaction.  </p>
<p>The best predictor for success in a child can be made by looking at the figures at home who are responsible for setting the child&#8217;s goals.  </p>
<p>There is only so much that a teacher can accomplish with children who have not had people at home preparing them for school and almost nothing a teacher can accomplish with children whose parents do not instill the importance of education in them.  </p>
<p>The only solution for that would be a massive infusion of pre-school education, which unfortunately, if not mandatory, would only help those who took the initiative to take advantage of it.</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>As for accountability, there are few things more accountable than schools, which are managed at the district level with policies set by school boards, with PTAs having significant influence over schools and principals.  Moreover, on the state level, policy is advanced and made by your own legislators.  Public education is every bit as accountable as any other public endeavour.  </p>
<p>Those who are dissatisified, can and do seek alternative schooling.  Now, proponents of that approach desire their choice to be subsidized by taxpayer money, despite the fact that the taxpayer subsidies are extremely unlikely to help those who are already without means.  </p>
<p>Those wonderful private schools that are always illustrated as the example of why public school is terrible aren&#8217;t something that a tax credit or a voucher is going to enable those with the biggest problems in the public school to take advantage of.  </p>
<p>In the same way that the lottery takes money from those foolish enough to spend their money on a financially ridiculous proposition to subsidize higher education, so too would the allocation of taxpayer money to subsidize private education be a rather cynical distribution of revenues.</p>
<p>If the state wanted to do something to help failing schools it would be an investment in mandatory preschool education where children who will go on to fall behind their peers might be given the basic skills necessary to succeed.  </p>
<p>But that would be too expensive and too intrusive for those that aren&#8217;t really the problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sen. Kevin Bryant gets the Wonkette treatment &#171; Vierdsonian Democracy</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-31226</link>
		<dc:creator>Sen. Kevin Bryant gets the Wonkette treatment &#171; Vierdsonian Democracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-31226</guid>
		<description>[...] Brad Warthen compared Howard Rich to Osama bin Laden, Rich&#8217;s pal Will Folks got his panties in a wad about it. Won&#8217;t hold my breath on this one, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brad Warthen compared Howard Rich to Osama bin Laden, Rich&#8217;s pal Will Folks got his panties in a wad about it. Won&#8217;t hold my breath on this one, [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mincing Words</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30763</link>
		<dc:creator>Mincing Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30763</guid>
		<description>#10-

Why ever would you assume that SC Lawyer III is &quot;blaming&quot; anyone, much less the children for the failure of schools to perform?  

Ask any teacher, any teacher at all in a Title I school, and s/he will tell you that the greatest obstacle to educating children of low SEC (socio-economic class) is the lack of involvement of the PARENT(S).  While this characterization does not apply to every family of low SEC, it does apply to a great many.   The Atlanta school works because parents had to apply to have their children admitted, which indicates they place a high value on the education their children receive.  Involved parents help children with homework, place emphasis on learning, and are in communication with the school regarding their child&#039;s academic progress and behavior.  

So instead of lecturing the &quot;middle class,&quot; how about encourage parents to involve themselves in their children&#039;s educations, to help them with their homework,to actually attend parent/teacher conferences, to return phone calls to concerned teachers, and to ensure their children actually go to school?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10-</p>
<p>Why ever would you assume that SC Lawyer III is &#8220;blaming&#8221; anyone, much less the children for the failure of schools to perform?  </p>
<p>Ask any teacher, any teacher at all in a Title I school, and s/he will tell you that the greatest obstacle to educating children of low SEC (socio-economic class) is the lack of involvement of the PARENT(S).  While this characterization does not apply to every family of low SEC, it does apply to a great many.   The Atlanta school works because parents had to apply to have their children admitted, which indicates they place a high value on the education their children receive.  Involved parents help children with homework, place emphasis on learning, and are in communication with the school regarding their child&#8217;s academic progress and behavior.  </p>
<p>So instead of lecturing the &#8220;middle class,&#8221; how about encourage parents to involve themselves in their children&#8217;s educations, to help them with their homework,to actually attend parent/teacher conferences, to return phone calls to concerned teachers, and to ensure their children actually go to school?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30751</link>
		<dc:creator>Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30751</guid>
		<description>How does funding a private school with public money keep it private, and how is expanding government funding to private schools a &quot;small government solution?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does funding a private school with public money keep it private, and how is expanding government funding to private schools a &#8220;small government solution?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: baker</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30749</link>
		<dc:creator>baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30749</guid>
		<description>&quot;for the children&quot; -- I don&#039;t think SCLawyer&#039;s comment was racist. 

Sure, it&#039;s a fine line. It would be bigoted to say that kids from poor schools CAN&#039;T learn or don&#039;t deserve high standards. Sure. But it&#039;s simply realistic to note the challenges and realities faced by poor children and the schools that serve them. That&#039;s what NCLB is all about -- acknowledging the complexity. NCLB has its critics, but I think the general thrust of it is appropriate. 

As for the bin Laden link, I don&#039;t like that kind of thing, either. It wasn&#039;t cool what the GOP did to its opponents in the 2002 election (Max Cleland), and it&#039;s not cool to compare Howard Rich to him. Whether or not you think his influence in SC is on the up-and-up. 

According to Will&#039;s pals at Barbecue and Politics, Spartanburg Senate candidate Lee Bright had money from Howard Rich pour (TONS of it) into his campaign after the last disclosure period before the primary. Did he really just need an infusion cash, or was this simple dishonesty? If the SCRG/Rich agenda is so good for SC, why mislead people in this way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;for the children&#8221; &#8212; I don&#8217;t think SCLawyer&#8217;s comment was racist. </p>
<p>Sure, it&#8217;s a fine line. It would be bigoted to say that kids from poor schools CAN&#8217;T learn or don&#8217;t deserve high standards. Sure. But it&#8217;s simply realistic to note the challenges and realities faced by poor children and the schools that serve them. That&#8217;s what NCLB is all about &#8212; acknowledging the complexity. NCLB has its critics, but I think the general thrust of it is appropriate. </p>
<p>As for the bin Laden link, I don&#8217;t like that kind of thing, either. It wasn&#8217;t cool what the GOP did to its opponents in the 2002 election (Max Cleland), and it&#8217;s not cool to compare Howard Rich to him. Whether or not you think his influence in SC is on the up-and-up. </p>
<p>According to Will&#8217;s pals at Barbecue and Politics, Spartanburg Senate candidate Lee Bright had money from Howard Rich pour (TONS of it) into his campaign after the last disclosure period before the primary. Did he really just need an infusion cash, or was this simple dishonesty? If the SCRG/Rich agenda is so good for SC, why mislead people in this way?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rick</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30744</link>
		<dc:creator>rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30744</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t figured out how voting with your tax dollars is bad. Since public education is no longer accountable to the taxpayers that they supposedly serve, how does a parent demonstrate dissatisfaction? Removal of the child and the attendent tax dollars make the school choice issue more like the free market at large. We choose which car to buy, which brands of foods, gorcery stores....why not schools? There will always be high performing and low performing students, largely based upon parental involvement and availability of quality teaching tools. We cannot dumb down the entire student body just because some students don&#039;t perform. While I believe that the majority of school teachers begin by being fully engaged and dedicated, it soon becomes an uphill struggle when the political reality begins to set in. Why do administrative personnel receive more pay than the teacher in the classroom? Where are the resources the teacher needs? Why is there increased hiring of tertiary level employees when we have an increased student body and the need for teachers, classroom? Where is the challenging programs that shake out the performers from the non-productive? Oh wait, everyones a winner, right? Until either the State or the local board is held accountable to the people paying the bill, nothing will be done. Say what you want, it&#039;s all about money and power. People, as we allow people to make decisions for us with no responsibility for the results, we will continue to have failing schools that dumb down your childs education to meet the non-performers level of achievement. The education system is only worried about their power base and how much more money they can extract from your wallet. Beware &quot;it&#039;s for the children&quot; label, look at Washington DC with the highest cost and the lowest results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t figured out how voting with your tax dollars is bad. Since public education is no longer accountable to the taxpayers that they supposedly serve, how does a parent demonstrate dissatisfaction? Removal of the child and the attendent tax dollars make the school choice issue more like the free market at large. We choose which car to buy, which brands of foods, gorcery stores&#8230;.why not schools? There will always be high performing and low performing students, largely based upon parental involvement and availability of quality teaching tools. We cannot dumb down the entire student body just because some students don&#8217;t perform. While I believe that the majority of school teachers begin by being fully engaged and dedicated, it soon becomes an uphill struggle when the political reality begins to set in. Why do administrative personnel receive more pay than the teacher in the classroom? Where are the resources the teacher needs? Why is there increased hiring of tertiary level employees when we have an increased student body and the need for teachers, classroom? Where is the challenging programs that shake out the performers from the non-productive? Oh wait, everyones a winner, right? Until either the State or the local board is held accountable to the people paying the bill, nothing will be done. Say what you want, it&#8217;s all about money and power. People, as we allow people to make decisions for us with no responsibility for the results, we will continue to have failing schools that dumb down your childs education to meet the non-performers level of achievement. The education system is only worried about their power base and how much more money they can extract from your wallet. Beware &#8220;it&#8217;s for the children&#8221; label, look at Washington DC with the highest cost and the lowest results.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cindy Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30699</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30699</guid>
		<description>SC Lawyer III:

I beg to differ on the &quot;Underfunded schools&quot; part.  The schools are already receiving a large portion of the state&#039;s budget.  Check it out.  Also, in most of the bills that have been introduced, there is a cap on the salary of the parents, so the tax-credit would only go to those who cannot &quot;save your money, make sacrifices, do what you have to do.&quot;  This is only one avenue for trying to make our schools better.  It seems that since no one else is coming up with any ideas, this is the only one that keeps coming back around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SC Lawyer III:</p>
<p>I beg to differ on the &#8220;Underfunded schools&#8221; part.  The schools are already receiving a large portion of the state&#8217;s budget.  Check it out.  Also, in most of the bills that have been introduced, there is a cap on the salary of the parents, so the tax-credit would only go to those who cannot &#8220;save your money, make sacrifices, do what you have to do.&#8221;  This is only one avenue for trying to make our schools better.  It seems that since no one else is coming up with any ideas, this is the only one that keeps coming back around.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Not Only That</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30683</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Only That</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30683</guid>
		<description>SC Lawyer III:  That was one of the most reasonable posts I&#039;ve ever seen on this site, from either side of the school choice question.  

The dirty little secret no one talks about is that the vast majority of private schools -- especially the small &quot;white flight&quot; academies formed in rural areas after integration -- not only aren&#039;t better than public schools, they&#039;re not nearly as good, even though they get a whole lot more desirable crop of kids.  Schools like Heathwood and Hammond MAY be better (who can tell, they get the best of the best to start with) but no tax credit in the world would cover the cost for a poor parent (or even most of the rest of us) to send their children there.

The only reason people think private schools are better than public is that private schools do none of the achievement reporting that public schools do.  And here&#039;s the real kicker -- under Howie Rich&#039;s legislation, they wouldn&#039;t have to do it even if they started receiving public dollars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SC Lawyer III:  That was one of the most reasonable posts I&#8217;ve ever seen on this site, from either side of the school choice question.  </p>
<p>The dirty little secret no one talks about is that the vast majority of private schools &#8212; especially the small &#8220;white flight&#8221; academies formed in rural areas after integration &#8212; not only aren&#8217;t better than public schools, they&#8217;re not nearly as good, even though they get a whole lot more desirable crop of kids.  Schools like Heathwood and Hammond MAY be better (who can tell, they get the best of the best to start with) but no tax credit in the world would cover the cost for a poor parent (or even most of the rest of us) to send their children there.</p>
<p>The only reason people think private schools are better than public is that private schools do none of the achievement reporting that public schools do.  And here&#8217;s the real kicker &#8212; under Howie Rich&#8217;s legislation, they wouldn&#8217;t have to do it even if they started receiving public dollars.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: for the children</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/07/13/howie-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-30680</link>
		<dc:creator>for the children</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/?p=4183#comment-30680</guid>
		<description>&quot;.... most public schools perform about how the demographics would lead you to expect that they would.&quot;

This is so incredibly racist, ignorant and WRONG.  The left has to stop blaming children for adults not doing the job they are paid to do.  Just because a child lives in poverty or is of color does NOT mean that they cannot achieve academically.  

There are many public and private schools that are examples of this.  The Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta is a private academy in Atlanta that serves financially disadvantaged children of color.  KIP schools are public charter schools that serve these same demographics.  All of these schools are achieving higher levels of academic success with their students than people like SC Lawyer III expect.

I am so sick of self-righteous people of means looking down their middle class noses at children who have no choice but to attend a school where the success rate for children like them is only one in ten.  (The reading proficiency rate for SC&#039;s black 8th grade boys on the NAEP.)  These sanctimonious people shake their heads back and forth saying, &quot;What do you expect?&quot;  The implication is that the children are defective or come from defective communities and therefore we can&#039;t expect these children to learn.

This is beyond vile.  Maybe SC Lawyer III only expects this.  I sure don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;. most public schools perform about how the demographics would lead you to expect that they would.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is so incredibly racist, ignorant and WRONG.  The left has to stop blaming children for adults not doing the job they are paid to do.  Just because a child lives in poverty or is of color does NOT mean that they cannot achieve academically.  </p>
<p>There are many public and private schools that are examples of this.  The Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta is a private academy in Atlanta that serves financially disadvantaged children of color.  KIP schools are public charter schools that serve these same demographics.  All of these schools are achieving higher levels of academic success with their students than people like SC Lawyer III expect.</p>
<p>I am so sick of self-righteous people of means looking down their middle class noses at children who have no choice but to attend a school where the success rate for children like them is only one in ten.  (The reading proficiency rate for SC&#8217;s black 8th grade boys on the NAEP.)  These sanctimonious people shake their heads back and forth saying, &#8220;What do you expect?&#8221;  The implication is that the children are defective or come from defective communities and therefore we can&#8217;t expect these children to learn.</p>
<p>This is beyond vile.  Maybe SC Lawyer III only expects this.  I sure don&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
