POLLING SHOWS BARR FACTOR MIGHT ACTUALLY HURT … OBAMA?
By Mande Wilkes
FITSNews – July 8, 2008 – Amid Republicans’ frenzied fear of a November spoiler in the form of Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr, some smart somebody somewhere decided to test whether these concerns are justified. Turns out, they’re not.
Rasmussen Reports conducted research on presidential preferences among libertarians, and concluded that they favor Democrat Barack Obama to Republican John McCain – and by a lot more than just a little bit.
Comprising just four percent of voters nationwide, libertarians are apparently way more likely to vote Democrat than conventional wisdom dictated. In fact, according to the Rasmussen results, 53 percent prefer Obama while 38 percent favor McCain.
Which of course means that Barr may actually pull more votes from Obama than McCain, should these numbers pan out.
This news, while likely to allay Republican concerns about Barr, actually opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms for the right.
What libertarians and Republicans are supposed to share is a live-and-let-live mentality.
Problem is, Republicans have forgotten about their allegiance to personal freedom. Having replaced socially-permissive ideals with finger-wagging liturgy, Republicans can no longer legitimately claim to represent libertarians – and can no longer expect libertarian votes.
And that’s why this report is even more meaningful than it appears.
Much more than just a peek into presidential voting preferences, these numbers anthropomorphize the fundamental change in GOP politics – a change which will eventually bleed the party of all but the most dogmatic right-wingers.
This report highlights where the right went wrong, as well as where libertarians – once the stalwart foundation of the party – will flock to. They’re headed left, having no representation in the GOP and lacking legitimate representation in the Libertarian Party.
And that’s probably the saddest fact of them all: Libertarian ideals aren’t even validated in the Libertarian party.
That libertarians overwhelmingly prefer Obama to McCain reflects badly not just on the Republican Party, but on the Libertarian Party as well.
Libertarians just came off a zealous fight for Ron Paul, and now they have to settle for a Democrat who wants to spend their money like it’s going out of style?
Having gone from jazzed to jaded, libertarians just can’t seem to catch a break. Seriously, where are the libertarian politicians? And where, for that matter, are the Republicans – a group which used to stand for libertarianism but which now stands for anything but …
By Daniel Gleason July 8, 2008 at 10:52 am
This shows the ignorance of so many libertarians. They are shallow, emotion driven (not all of them, just many in those Ron Paul crowds) who have only been interested in politics since Ron Paul came on the scene and have no foundation in libertarianism or conservatism. Therefore, they can be swayed so easily. I’ve seen this with so many of my friends. It’s an emotional experience, and Ron Paul provided just that, along with a “stick it to the man” rebel theme. Now, Obama provides the next emotional high, so they are flocking that way. It’s sad what has happened to the libertarian masses.
Obviously, there are the true libertarians who are probably more thoughtful than any liberal or conservative. They’ve allowed their “party” to be taken over by Ron Paul’s emotional and hysteric crowds. It’s sad, because it’s tough to find a group that more resembled the founding fathers than the genuine, thoughtful Libertarians.
By StupidShouldHurtMore (SSHM) July 8, 2008 at 11:07 am
Mande,
This may be the case at the national level, but here in South Carolina, we are seeing where Libertarians are becoming the New Republicans. Your moderates and average conservatives (Read: Fiscal Conservatives that are mostly meh on social issues) are being squeezed out of the party because they are deemed as not “being conservative enough.”
The long-term implications of a “Libertarian resettlement” within the SCGOP, I feel, will undo the party. It should be pretty clear that if Libertarians can not be elected on their own merits or planks then changing from (L) to (R) serves nothing more than to kill the GOP.
I’m all for the big tent, but please, no RhINOs.
It’s not a pretty time to wear the (R).
- SSHM
By Jim Peterson July 8, 2008 at 11:44 am
Another major theme is that the Republican Party has gone pro-feminist since late 2005, leaving males no representation at all. Sam Brownback made a deal with Dem Senator Maria Cantwell where she would stop the filibuster on Alito if he got all the Reps to vote for the new Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) which is pure radical feminism incorporated now into US law. VAWA makes it illogical for a man to get married now, especially to a non-American women, because he basically loses most of his rights that he would otherwise keep (VAWA encourages false abuse allegations, and every American male knows about the Duke lacrosse player fake rape case recently).
Part of that deal also brought IMBRA, which forces American men to be background checked before being allowed to chat with foreign women online…and the foreigners are forced to sign affidavits that each individual American male’s background check was viewed. It does not matter that both parties are probably not inside the USA at the time the US government makes such an interference in the private affairs of two people.
With McCain and Obama both striving for the Clintonite feminist vote, Bob Barr can win the election by going after the male vote and the anti-Clinton women. Barr only needs about 40% to win and he could be at 10% by the end of July.
By Jeff Snildon July 8, 2008 at 11:54 am
So you are content to feel “meh” about the wholesale slaughter of 1.2 million babies a year? Or am I just a nut for even bringing that up. What good are you if you want low taxes but dont have the courage to stand up for something controversial in the social issues realm?
By It is the war stupid July 8, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Libertarians are very much against pre-emptive wars- McCain is a war monger and favors invading countries that have done us no harm- Iraq , Iran, etc. etc.
That is why McCain will lose the election- and will not get the Libertarian support .
It is not complicated -if you want more war and more debt vote for -McCain
if you want less war and more debt vote for obama.
By Mande July 8, 2008 at 1:07 pm
@ StupidShouldHurtMore: Your point about libertarians not winning on their “own merits” – good call, though it’s disheartening.
@ It is the war stupid: Your last statement is perhaps the best ever summary of this election. “If you want more war and more debt vote for McCain; if you want less war and more debt vote for Obama.” Sad but true.
By Crooner July 8, 2008 at 1:28 pm
JS-
If you think abortion amounts to the “wholesale slaughter” of babies don’t have one. That shouldn’t be too hard for you to avoid since, if you are aptly named, you are a man incapable of becoming pregnant.
But don’t dictate to others what decisions they should be allowed to make about their health. ‘Cause that’s the way libertarians are supposed to roll.
By Toyota Kawesaki July 8, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Gov Moonbeam to do state wide tour with Mr.BARR.
By Piepton July 8, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I don’t know if it’s worse to slaughter the babies or brainwash them from birth with religious nonsense that makes them vote against their social and economic interests because they are too busy running around screaming think of the babies, think of the babies instead of actually contemplating and reasoning through real issues that affect Americans in the real world. Personally for me it’s a toss-up but Jeff is starting to sway me towards slaughter being the more ethical choice.
By SumterStreetBoyz July 8, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Funny … Is there any difference between SC Republican legislators and Democrats/New Democrats? There really isn’t any difference between the majority of SC Republicans Legislatures and traditional Dems. Spend Spend Spend . . . No accountability.
By Give Me FITS July 8, 2008 at 4:21 pm
…these numbers anthropomorphize the fundamental change in GOP politics…
You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.
I. Montoya
By Mande July 8, 2008 at 5:04 pm
@ Give me FITS: What word is it that I keep using incorrectly? From the sentence you highlighted, ‘politics’ is the only word that I ‘keep using,’ and I’m pretty sure I’m using that one right. =)
By Scott H. July 8, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Mande:
It’s a line from a film….a GREAT film.
extra comma aside, it is correctly quoted. I don’t think he/she was focusing on a word you “keep” using (that would be “inconceivable!”) but trying to make a funny about how you are using “anthropomorphize” incorrectly.
Malaprops can be funny, so maybe you did it on purpose, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
By it is the war stupid July 8, 2008 at 9:28 pm
The Iraqi government , remember the real elected government by the people, has asked us to give them a timetable on when our troops will leave. They want all u.s. troops to leave Iraq very soon .
The nerve of these people .. after all the bombs we have dropped on their country..
McCain will get roasted as he can not define a win there -if the surge has worked , lets come home now. But we all know McCain will keep us there for decades -and Obama won’t. And Obama will torch McCain on this issue in a debate.
By Mande July 8, 2008 at 9:42 pm
@ Scott – I’ve been forced to sit through many a viewing of The Princess Bride (unfortunately!). Great movie? I’ve always thought it’s a boil on the butt of humanity. Name THAT movie! =)
By rick July 9, 2008 at 5:57 am
At the risk of sounding like a McCain supporter, you’re quote about McCain and Obama being the same insofar as debt goes, you’re wrong. McCain has always been a fiscal conservative. His problem is that he’s a social liberal. McCain wants to either extend the tax breaks given, or further reduce them to keep the money flowing within the economy where it has the chance of building more jobs. Obuma on the other hand has always chosen to reward the indolent by removing the incentive for the wealth builders in this nation to continue to build that wealth here rather than abroad. His platform of bringing jobs back is disengenous at best, the best he could do is disencentivize the current trend of chasing the cheapest labor/production costs. Both have a dangerous world view when both support the concept of “A European Union” North American syle free trade partenership agreements. While Obuma is busy remaking himself into a centrist, McCain is busy losing the election by playing nice. Says much about his ability to wage war. His past record is much about accommodation of opposing viewpoints, Obuma, we have no record except that of a local organizer with a group chased out of every state except Illinois. His past, if the mainstream media ever discover it, is filled with nefarious characters up on charges or still spouting their brand of hatred. McCain, still the same ” hot headed, drive my agenda, in your face” guy that he ever was. Remember, John McCain was against the war until the first pair of boots hit the ground, after that his whole agenda has been success.
After all this, you’d think I was pro-mccain, nope, just want the truth about what I’m buying.
By a knight July 9, 2008 at 6:53 am
You analysis greatly conflated the term ‘libertarian’ with LP members. It is important that persons always pay attention to whether a ‘Big L’ or a ‘little l’ libertarian is being referenced. Zogby defines ‘libertarian’ as a person who identifies their politics as being fiscally conservative and socially conservative. After the spectacle of “Conservatives Gone Wild In D.C.: 2002-2006″, even that metric has become suspect, because there are many who refuse to be associated with the greedheaded fiscal policies as manifest by the true conservative beast unbound. The Libertarian Party membership is a horse of a different colour though; as should be easily seen from the nomination to be their 2008 Presidential candidate, of the odious little SOB of an unrepentant and venal conservative, Bob Barr.
To those who posit their farcical ideations of what constitutes a real libertarian, maybe you should get you head out of your, er… the ground. A libertarian, by definition is one who defends individual liberty from forces of collectivism, be they systemic state or fictional business constructs. Does it matter to those on the receiving end, if the imprint from the boot-stomp branded a hammer-and-sickle or a Nike-Swoop upon their hides?
The monstrosity of the Bush Tyranny has forced all to make a decision: Do You Stand As A Friend Of Liberty, or Lie Prostrate Licking A Tyrant’s Boot. You must choose, there is no escaping this.
By a knight July 9, 2008 at 6:56 am
oops, that should have read: Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. My poor profing abilities…
By rick July 9, 2008 at 7:28 am
Well said a knight…..
By rick July 9, 2008 at 7:31 am
Well said a knight…..should have added, the majority of Americans fail in the test of freedom. Safety is the new mantra, “it’s for the kids” has become passe’
By Scott H. July 9, 2008 at 9:07 am
Mande:
I’m afraid I cannot converse with someone who ranks Steel Magnolias above….or would even dare to speak the name in the same sentence as… The Princess Bride.
Good day to you.
By Tim July 9, 2008 at 10:45 am
I voted for (and supported) Ron Paul. Bob Barr sucks. He’s for open borders. I’m not sure what his CIA background is, but if you ask me, he’s probably yet another drone stalking horse for McCain.
Like every other “good” candidate for president since I was born, Chuck Baldwin has an evangelical complex. Oh well. He’s still the most interesting, even his third party chances are the most microscopic of all.
Dr. Strangelove (err, McCain) has destroyed the GOP. I’ve never voted for anything but third parties for president. And, this time, I’ve never felt more ambivalent about the choices.
If you wonder why Barr is so bad on open borders…. Just think of all of the open borders Libertarian Party nominee predecessors. They were all identical. That’s why Pat Buchanan (and Ron Paul) always out-did them.
By Jefferson Station July 9, 2008 at 10:46 am
The New Democrat is the OLD DEMOCRAT!!!!!
By Rob W. July 9, 2008 at 5:09 pm
I’m one of the small-l libertarians who switched from the GOP to support Obama in the primary. I’m also seriously considering voting for Bob Barr in the general, particularly since Obama’s supported the anti-trade/ mortgage bailout/ farm bill stuff ridiculousness, and the GOP’s been so bad on the budget, civil liberties, torture, letting us live our damn lives without interference, etc. I really don’t like a lot of things Barr has stood for in the past, but if voting for him can send a message that some of us actually do like free minds and free markets (including labor markets, you silly protectionists), then maybe that’ll be a vote well spent.
Tom- could I also point out (to you or to Mr. Flat Top) that free trade is the only thing almost all economists believe is good for the economy? People who have devoted their whole lives to studying the subject disagree on government intervention in the economy, spending, the role of regulatory agencies, and environmental policy, but still find a way to agree on the benefits of free trade.
By Tim July 11, 2008 at 8:51 am
Free trade is great, but only from within our own country. In the Antebellum era, it was Northern protectionism that was a leach on the South (and exploiting slavery in the worst possible way). Protectionism against foreign countries, however, is only a normal way of doing business and protecting your own hide. Libertarianism is great insofar as it doesn’t commit suicide for it’s own country. Just ask yourself: Why does Bob Barr favor open borders? The answer: Free trade is not an end-all be-all, universal, global philosophy. True, it is the best philosophy for all of the world to follow, and best for worldwide growth, but national sovereignty comes first. Otherwise, we’re inviting those who do not adhere to national free tradism to come across our borders and destroy us from within.
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