If You’re Keeping Score At Home
… THAT MEANS YOU, AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION
FITSNews - April 29, 2008 - Only 48% of test-takers from the Charleston School of Law passed the February 2008 bar exam, according to results published in today’s edition of La Socialista.
Bar exam results are typically lower for the February test, which often includes multiple rejects ”repeat test-takers,” although the University of South Carolina managed to post a 65% passing rate among its February class.
Of course, it should be noted that these exam results are subject to change at the whim of the S.C. Supreme Court - which may once again decide to toss out a whole section of the exam so that Charleston can achieve the passing percentage it needs to impress the American Bar Association … and make the school’s owners a lot of money.
Let ‘em “fake it till they make it,” right Queen Jean?
Comments
By Ham on April 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
That is dismal. I have never heard of such a low pass rate at any school in the nation. Very interesting how none of this information is reported on the school’s site or press release. They are a joke and a laughing stock. I can not believe that people fall for this and make the shady owners of the for profit school money. Everyone knows that the only people that go there can not get into any other school out there.
By Alex $ander$ on April 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Deplorable. I remember back in the day the CSOL crowd was claiming that they will easily and quickly reach parity with USC and that they were totally awesome. These numbers do not lie. If you want to pass the bar do not go to CSOL. If you want to waste 3 years and $150k to be looked at as a failure it may be worth it. This is huge news and any present or prospective students may want to take a second look until they give all of thier money away to a for-profit 3 year glorified Kaplan test prep class that leaves them with a 50/50 shot to pass the bar and maybe become a state court law clerk at $32k/yr.
By Who Cares? on April 29th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
To all who constantly berate the Charleston School of Law, the real question is…why do you care so much? What’s it to you whether a bunch of students “waste 3 years and $150k”? As long as its not you wasting the time and money, I just don’t see why you spend the time and energy to care. You either need to search long and hard for a hobby or ask yourself the real reason why you seem to get joy out of seeing CSOL struggle.
By fitsnews on April 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
To “Who Cares,”
You’re right, everybody in the state should be able to make the Supreme Court its bitch.
-FITSNews
By Bo Sessions on April 29th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
It is funny to see the little CSOL supporter chime in. The rest are very silent.
This is the new ABA hurdle which Alex Sanders money making effort will not ever be able to pass: “The school’s annual first-time bar passage rate in jurisdictions most popular with its grads is no more than 15 points below the average first-time bar passage rates for grads of ABA-approved law schools.”
The 1st time pass rate for CSOL was 42% the SC rate was 83%. If anyone can find another school that is 40% behind in pass rate please let me know.
The reason people care other than those that attend CSOL is that their friends, family and others are giving Alex Sanders money for no reason.
By Observation on April 29th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I don’t have a dog in either fight, but just as a casual observation:
USC’s pass rate for the February exam dropped by 27% since the July exam (92% pass in July vs. 65% in Feb.), whereas the Charleston school’s pass rate for the February exam dropped 22% (70% pass in July vs. 48% in Feb.). Since both schools dropped in fairly equal proportion (with USC actually having the bigger drop off) and so few people actually take the February bar exam, the July pass numbers are a much greater indicator of overall bar success.
Plus, the most important number in all of this are the “repeat takers.” The Charleston school had only 7 new “first time takers” on this exam, meaning that the school’s overall 1st time bar pass rate, (which is what truly matters) will remain right around 70%. The 48% number really has no bearing on the Charleston school’s overall pass rate, since they were all repeat takers (except for 7). The same is true for USC, if you factor out repeat test takers, their overall pass rate will remain intact up around 90%. Of course it is not good that many Charleston students failed a 2nd time, but neither school has a superior argument pertaining to repeat takers. If you look at the chart supplied on the Supreme Court’s Website, 52% of USC’s repeat takers passed vs. 49% of Charleston students.
So, both USC and Charleston’s overall bar pass rates remain at about 90% and 70%, respectively, which is perfectly normal in most states that have more than one law school. It is to be expected that any news coming out of Columbia will be interpreted or skewed in favor of USC, but given the fact that this past year was the Charleston school’s first crack at the bar exam, anything close to 60 or 70% is actually quite outstanding for a brand new school. The USC community (judging from the comments above) might want to embrace the new school rather than berate it, because competition is the only thing that is going to keep USC from falling into the 3rd tier.
By ExPat on April 29th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
USC School of Nursing has about the same pass rate. With the USC Law School having an average LSAT of 157 then what are you crowing about?
SC:Being ridden like a cheap hooker by NC since inception.
By Milk Dud on April 29th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
I think it is pretty cool that they rent their space next to and in the same building as the Music Farm. Drop $25k/yr and walk from class to go see Five Way Friday. That is like an awesome deal. Who needs to pass the bar?
By Moron Alert on April 29th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
From Bo Sessions: “It is funny to see the little CSOL supporter chime in. The rest are very silent.” “The 1st time pass rate for CSOL was 42%”
Yes, it is funny to see people like Mr. Bo Sessions chime in as well. I hate to completely destroy your argument, but CSOL’s “1st time pass rate” for the February bar was based on 7 whole students. Yes, only 7. Therefore the February bar results essentially have nothing to do whatsoever with CSOL’s 1st time bar pass rate. These were all repeat test takers and if you are trying to criticize CSOL’s repeat takers, you might want to see post#6 above - USC and CSOL are about even in that area. And since you are wondering why the rest of the CSOL students are remaining “silent”: most of us don’t feel the need to respond to all of the immature and hateful comments we read on blogs like this. We are actually trying to begin a legal career and build a professional and civil relationship with both USC’s law school and the legal community in Columbia. Constantly bashing each other’s school serves no purpose.
By Moron Alert on April 29th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Well, it appears that someone took down the previously labeled post #6 that actually analyzed the bar pass statistics without any blatent USC bias. Interesting, I wonder why someone would do that. Well, all previous post #6 said (before mine became post#6) was that USC actually had a larger drop in pass percentage from the July to the February bar and that CSOL’s 70% overall pass rate is still virtually the same b/c only 7 new people took the bar in February. You can check the stats out for yourself. Now, where did that excellent prior post #6 go……..
By H.R. Pufnstuf, Esquire on April 29th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Alex Sanders, Fritz Hollings, Sol Jr., Kaye Hearn, Gedney Howe, Joe Riley, and Billy Wilkins (among other trustees) all have distinguished careers serving the State of South Carolina… I would even say all of their services go untarnished (which is more to say than most of the other lawyer-politicians in our state). What they are doing, FITS, is giving prospective law students a choice in the Palmetto State: something I thought you were all for, being the mouthpiece for the Governor and Mr. Rich.
You see, Rome wasn’t built in a day. This is a new law school, and they are going to have their fair share of hurdles. Unlike USC Law, they are not centuries old. Give them time, and they will eventually be a viable alternative to USC Law.
On a lighter note: have you ever experienced Charleston’s nightlife? I assume you have. Did you go to college? Once again, I assume you did. Have you ever tried balancing the Charleston scene and Law School at the same time? No? Give these kids a break.
These are not going to be your corporate lawyers. They’re going to end up returning to the crossroads town they came from as country lawyers who actually make a difference in people’s lives. That’s what the CSoL teaches (so I’ve been told), and it’s something that USC Law has been driving itself away from for over a decade and a half.
“If you can’t find a lawyer who knows the law, find one that knows the judge.” That’s what being from a small state like South Carolina is all about.
By Natasha on April 30th, 2008 at 8:06 am
43% passed as first-time test takers in February (3 out of 7). And I “hear” that if you fail the first time, it is harder to pass the second time and third timeyou take the bar and so on. That logic makes zero sense to me. But anyway…
By Sandy McDermitt on April 30th, 2008 at 8:35 am
I heard that CSOL students use drugs and listen to rap music. I would never send my child there.
By piepton on April 30th, 2008 at 8:44 am
@Observation - I’ll allow that you’re using percentages from a doctored test but I will not abide crappy statistics! Using a straight percentage loss approach will always favor the side that had a lower number in the first comparison. To be responsible you should use a proportional change in which case USC was at 29.3% and CSOL was at 31.4%.
@Natasha - The reason it’s more difficult to pass the bar after the first time is because you are most prepared to take the test when you are fresh out of law school and are still in the habit of studying. As opposed to when you’ve been working at Arby’s to make your rent payment for 6 months.
By cgi-bin laden on April 30th, 2008 at 8:45 am
@ H.R. Pufnstuf, Esquire
Balancing the “Charleston scene” with school? Give me a break. Assuming these grads get a job (not a safe assumption, these days), they will be dealing with people’s lives and money. If boozing at Rue on Thursday takes a back seat to scholarship, they shouldn’t be lawyers.
Of course, you may have joking with the “Charleston scene” comment, and if so, ignore my remarks.
“These are not going to be your corporate lawyers. They’re going to end up returning to the crossroads town they came from as country lawyers who actually make a difference in people’s lives.”
Give me a break. You or your informants have been drinking that CSoL kool-aid®. You can’t go be a small town lawyer, making about 35K a year, when you have almost 200K in student loan debt. These grads, assuming they can find a job at all, are going for the highest-paying jobs they can find. Sadly, in SC the average salary for a newly-minted attorney is somewhere around 50K.
Also, loan forgiveness is a sick joke.
“…and it’s something that USC Law has been driving itself away from for over a decade and a half.”
Amen. USC law has strayed from training lawyers to attempting to become some sort of academic institution. We all know that “USC” and “academic” belong in the same sentence about as much as “Democrat” and “elected” in this state.
By PalmettoCPA on April 30th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Wait…I thought private schools were supposed to be inherently better than public schools…
By Connor Peterson on April 30th, 2008 at 11:23 am
@ Moron Alert
“We are actually trying to begin a legal career and build a professional and civil relationship with both USC’s law school and the legal community in Columbia.”
Judging by the content of your posts and the numbers I’m seeing from the July (pre-intervention) and February bar exams, perhaps you should first invest in some bar review books and a good set of highlighters.
“Constantly bashing each other’s school serves no purpose.”
Actually, it provides near-endless amusement during our bleak days of work. Wait until, Allah willing, you begin working. You’ll understand then.
side note: Hey Will, does this thing support HTML tags? I would really like to italicize stuff.
By Read This... on April 30th, 2008 at 11:43 am
The real question should be, why are BOTH schools’ pass rates so low? The last time I checked, USC’s pass rate of 65% isn’t exactly outstanding. It’s also below the ABA’s standard 70% benchmark.
Also, the students taking the bar exam from CSOL earned far lower lsat scores than the students taking it from the USC School of Law.
Compare: CSOL (median LSAT-152) vs USC (median LSAT-157)
Further, it has been well established, that the LSAT score determines one’s future success in law school and on bar exams.
Therefore, one can make the fair and logical conclusion that CSOL did well in proportion to the LSAT scores.
http://www.charlestonlaw.org/admissions/2007.classprofile.htm http://southcarolina.statelawyers.com/Schools/School_Detail.cfm/SchoolID:166
http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=351&article_id=29158079&cat_id=3091
By CL on April 30th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
It is misleading to claim USC’s passage rate is 65%. USC’s grads passed the July bar exam by over 90%. February is for the rejects who failed the first time and were already counted in the 10% who did not pass in July. There are very few USC grads taking the February bar for the first time.
Also, the LSAT predicts future success. It does not determine it.
By The Statistics on April 30th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Everyone seems to be misinterpreting what these numbers mean pertaining to both schools. Despite how many different charts and percentages they give on the Sup Ct’s website, there only 2 categories that matter for ABA/pass rate purposes: 1st Time Takers and 2nd Time Takers.
CSOL’s 1st Time Taker’s pass rate, will include ALL students who passed the July exam (since it was everyone’s first try), plus the 7 new ones who took it this February. Adding the new 3 of 7 to the 70% who passed in July will not alter that number hardly at all.
CSOL’s 2nd Time Taker’s pass rate will include only those taking the February bar, minus any 1st time takers (7 in this case). The 2nd time taker pass rate of 48% is not good, but it is only 4 percentage points below USC’s repeat pass number (52%), so both schools are about equal in the 2nd time taker’s category.
You can’t take either school’s February results (65% vs. 48%) as an idicator of bar exam success because they are all mostly repeat test takers. Also, you certainly don’t just add all the July and February results together, average them, or look at them in the same light because otherwise you would be counting the repeat takers twice. You have to separate the students out into 1st time and repeat takers to get a true passing percentage. Otherwise you’re just manipulating stats and reaching incorrect conclusions about either school’s ability to pass the bar exam.
By 1L on April 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I was actually offered a scholarship to attend USC’s law school because my LSAT score was much higher than a pathetic 157; I declined that offer to attend CSOL. Sure, there are a lot of problems with CSOL, but that’s to be expected with any new venture (business or otherwise). And, yes, I don’t particularly like the for-profit nature of the place. What I’ve enjoyed, though, is the hands-on teaching from all of the well-prepared and eager USC professors who seem to really enjoy their time here. Thanks for breaking them in for us, guys. Enjoy your beautiful and pleasant summer in Columbia.
By cgi-bin laden on April 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
@1L
If you picked CSoL and 200K in debt over a cheap education at USC, you are a fool and probably financially illiterate.
However, if someone else is paying for your law school, you’re probably doing the right thing and I tip my hat to you.
By haha on April 30th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
#21 = dumbass.
By Just a Question on April 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I know this is probably really uncool, but does anyone know how many African-Americans were second-time takers in February?
By T Bone on April 30th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
BTW, USC’s median LSAT for the entering class of 2007 was 159 to compared to 152 at CSOL. While this may seem trivial, it is actually a very large disparity.
USC = 159 = 81st percentile nationally
CSOL = 152 = 55th percentile nationally
http://law.sc.edu/future_students/profile.shtml
http://www.charlestonlaw.org/admissions/2007.classprofile.htm
http://www.alpha-score.com/LSAT_Score_Conversion_Chart.html
By Florida Gator on April 30th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
This is hilarious. USC vs. CSOL reminds me alot of the USC / Clemson football rivalry. Two crappy schools who are wholly insignificant outside of SC, are battling it out to decide which crappy school is the crappiest. I guess the one caveat is that CSOL is brand new and USC has been around since the Civil War, so it kinda of dampens the rivalry. Keep up the fight though, this is getting entertaining!
By Alex $ander$ on April 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
@1L/#21
You have to be joking. No one is that dumb to do that. You might want to recheck your LSAT score….137 is not the same as 173. I would aslo stock up on those highlighters to for when you have to take some time off hanging out with all your totally awesome “well-prepared and eager USC professors” in your rented building in the ghetto.
@ All other CSOLovers
You have been duped by the Owner’s. They thank you for supporting thier business. I am sure they will return your call after that last tuition check cashes and you need some help.
By Details on April 30th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
#25. You may not have noticed, but you listed the LSATs for the entering class of 2007 at USC (current 1Ls) and the graduating class of 2007 for CSOL. I’m not sure what difference, if any, there has been in their numbers since the first class, but I would assume the LSATs have risen at least slightly.
By CL on April 30th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
#26,
You know what else is hilarious, a UF supporter calling USC crappy. UF’s median LSAT score and 75th percentile scores are a whopping 1 point higher than USC’s, and its 25th percentile LSAT is 1 point lower than USC’s. So I guess by your standards, UF wins the battle of the crappy schools by a hair. Good job!
In USC’s defense, it has to draw on students from one of the worst public education systems in the nation. What is UF’s excuse? I also love that UF, or should I say Levin, is named after an ambulance chasing plaintiff’s lawyer who struck it rich in the tobacco litigation.
http://www.law.ufl.edu/admissions/
By Milk Dud on April 30th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
This is so awesome. The CSOL fan club is in full force. They are in complete denial. How can you defend such horrible results?
By Bo Sessions on April 30th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
CSOL has gone off the deep end. No chance to salvage. Cool little experiment though. The ABA will not take any of these lame excuses listed above from them. They are on a mission to shut down law schools and I think our friends at the Music Farm annex might just be next.
By HIPAA Enforcer on April 30th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
#20 and #26…great points.
#21 - I have no doubt that someone of your intelligence can enjoy what CSOL has to offer and be happy with your decision to attend there. You’ll probably pass the bar with flying colors and will have no trouble getting a job at a top law firm. But, the fact remains that you’re an exception to the rule at CSOL.
I graduated from USC Law a few years ago, but you won’t ever catch me praising the place. I, like many of my fellow colleagues, graduated USC with a very disenchanted view of the school, its faculty, administration, facilities, etc. While I don’t even attempt to speak for all USC grads, or even a large percentage of them, I can also confidently say that I am not alone with my view of USC Law.
That being said, my contempt is tenfold for CSOL. It’s a watershed for law students who, quite frankly, couldn’t go to school anywhere else. Is that true about everyone who attends? Of course not…CSOL has plenty of bright students such as yourself. But, the vast majority of students go there as a last resort. We all know this. That’s not a reflection of CSOL’s faculty, curricula, or administration, but it is a reflection upon the fact that CSOL is a young, unacredited law school with a high tuition.
The future result of CSOL’s existence is that the South Carolina legal community will soon be even more inundated with unqualified knuckleheads than it already is. Since the recent exam scandal has revealed the Bar Exam to be an inadequate barrier of entry into the profession, we’re left to rely upon law school admissions committees to weed out those who might be better served to seek other professions. And CSOL’s approach to take all comers just doesn’t get it done.
I have no doubt that someone will be quick to point out that CSOL denied X number of admissions applications last year. But that doesn’t change the fact that most of its student body would be at USC right now if given the option.
By A test taking haiku on April 30th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Oh the bar exam
Such futility pervades
I am smart I swear
By Shane- on April 30th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I dont understand the animosity towards CSOL. Who are you people posting? lawyers? concerned citizens? USC students? The students at CSOL made a choice to go there based on whatever they felt was important. That might mean it was the only school they got into, it was near home, they like the town, whatever…it doesnt matter. I think CSOL has some fine points- number one being that they have a bankroll to hire great professors and number two being the city itself (who wouldnt want to teach in charleston). That said there is already a great faculty in place and it is sure to improve. I think an enormously overlooked fact is that the test takers from last year were from the first class ever at CSOL. What is the significance? these students, and no offense to them, probably didnt have the credentials that students who have entered subsequently had. The school has been able to raise admissions standards dramatically with time and following ABA accreditation. I am confident that in a few years CSOL will have caught up to, if not surpassed USC.
By fuckfits@willisawomanbeater.com on April 30th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
In response to #28 observe that the numbers for the same entering class in 2007 a.k.a class of 2010, CSOL’s median was 155, 2 points lower than the earlier numbers provided for USC. http://www.charlestonlaw.org/admissions/2010.classprofile.htm Interesting the difference that actual numbers make (152 versus 155, 5 point difference versus 2 point difference), but USC does not want you to know what the real numbers for admission are. All they seem to care about is that their graduating class beat out the first class at CSOL which they should have done regardless, since it was a new school with lower caliber students at that time. They are afraid however, that CSOL will reach the status of a school like USC.Thus the need to use a mouthpiece like Will, who will defend all things USC till he dies (even that shitty football program) to try and get their message out. Considering there is only one years worth of numbers to go on, it would seem to a reasonable person hard to draw the conclusion that CSOL could never reach the level of USC.
As to #27, it is laughable that someone from USC is making fun of buildings when their law school is falling apart, and they can’t even get enough money from their alumni to build a new building. Also, love the way that you are avoiding the fact that all the senior professors at USC left to come to Charleston when given the chance, and that 2 more have left for the upcoming school year. Easy to see why USC is so dismissive of any notion of a superior faculty.
By EBD on April 30th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I really don’t understand how CSOL will ever climb up the ranks as predicted. It may show some improvement, but the fact is why would anyone pay the cost of CSOL tuition when they could go to USC which has a much larger alumni support network? Yes, we all know that Charleston is the greatest city on earth, but by that logic the College of Charleston should be better than USC or Clemson, which it is not.
CSOL can keep handing out scholarships to high LSAT students, but only by passing on that cost to the other students. And even most of those students would only be average at USC. It will always remain a good deal for a very select few students at CSOL who can get the scholarships, good grades and jobs, but the rest of the students are getting screwed. The same thing happens at USC, but to a much lesser degree. The fact is, law school is not the golden ticket that everyone thinks it is. CSOL just makes the law school gamble even more risky.
By Denny Crane on April 30th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
If only I had known people attending CSOL before me would not pass the bar in sufficient numbers… Now I understand how this means I too will fail, and that I should never have come to Charleston.
Clearly, my fate has been sealed by my logic game skills.
I rely on the fact that the people skills I will acquire at Rue de Jean (while staying far away from sharkeys and not hanging out with blake mitchell at pavlovs) will facilitate my successful career.
mark sanford: sucks
tim tebow: sucks
Arbys: pretty good
By justWondern on April 30th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
How in hell are we goin to figger this one out?
By cgi-bin laden on April 30th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
@fuckfits@willisawomanbeater.com
“They are afraid however, that CSOL will reach the status of a school like USC.”
LOL. That won’t take much.
—-
Also, can someone direct me to the average salary and employment figures for USC and CSoL?
By itsMyProblemsNotYours on April 30th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
I was accepted at USC, thank you very much, and CHOSE to come to to CSOL. And not for the party-town life, or the beaches, which I have seen exactly once. I came, because I had heard that the smaller, newer school was trying to foster a more collegial, friendly atmosphere - something that is all but unheard of in a law school.
Furthermore, a lot of attorneys in my hometown encouraged me to come here. I don’t believe they would have done that if they believed CSOL was going to close up shop, or flounder in its tracks. If these seasoned, experienced attorneys (who graduated for USC more than 15 and in many cases 25 years ago) believe in CSOL’s endeavors, then I was willing to come here. Are you USC students afraid we CSOLers somehow devalue YOUR degree? Why bash us?
As to whether I pass the bar exam on the first try - I consider that MY BURDEN, no matter what school I attend. I can waste my time in the classroom and outside, make mediocre grades, and learn the bare minimum, and decline to take a bar review course, or alternatively, I can study, strive to to well, attempt to maintain my knowledge through 3 years, and take the bar review course that will best prepare me. All of those are within my control, regardless of the college of law I attend.
And by the way, those of you who are trash-talking like you are the smartest things since Albert Einstein, why didn’t you go to an Ivy League school?
By Starting Rivalries just Embarass USC.....Go Tigers! on April 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
These pathetic USC bloggers are about as convincing as the class acts from Borat that represented the school’s philosophy on women, slavery, and how to suck at life in general….
Why don’t you bitches stop crying about Charleston School of Law taking your best professors, those cushy summer jobs by the beach that you once monopolized, and apparently all the class, dignity, and collegiality left in the state’s legal community.
And for #32’s “tenfold contempt” for our school, all fledgling schools have to start somewhere. In the five years we have for provisional accreditation to mature, I hope you hear a 1000 “I told you so’s.” Answer me this, how many top 8 Moot Court teams did USC have this year at national tournaments? We had 5. Did your Law Review publish any Presidential candidates’ pieces? We did. When I’m clerking for an unnamed high ranking judge next year, the only thing that should bring you comfort is that I will detest every minute of living in such a shit hole like Columbia. I wouldn’t have gone to USC if it was free…..not because I didn’t get in, (I didn’t apply), but b/c I don’t want to be associated with such a putrid institution. Now, back to studying my outlines by the beach…..
By USC Grad on April 30th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
#40
I didn’t go to an Ivy League school because I couldn’t get in. Even if I could have, I might have decided against it if I thought the extra cost was not worth it when all I wanted to do was find a job in South Carolina. Of course, this logic is completely turned on its head in your case. You voluntarily chose to pay more for a JD at a lower tier school that hasn’t even been accredited. If you already had a job lined up and have money to burn, I guess that would make some sense. Otherwise, you are a moron or you didn’t get in to USC.
By Connor Peterson on April 30th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
@ itsMyProblemsNotYours
You’re sassy. You’ll make a good waitress.
By Another CSOL student on April 30th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
I also was accepted to USC and chose to go to CSOL.
There was mention of the LSAT scores of this year’s 1Ls…Yes, the average LSAT score for the entire class was lower than that of USC’s 1L class, but the CSOL score includes the scores of the night students.
To compare directly to USC (since it does not have a night program), you have to look at CSOL’s average LSAT score for day students only–this year it was 160, 3 points higher than USC’s.
By Get Real on April 30th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
@41, did Obama convince you to just hold it in your mouth until the swelling went down? You didn’t even apply to USC? sure…
By Get Real on April 30th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
here we go with the night school BS again. And please show me where the average LSAT for CSOL was 160 please.
By Constitutiongirl on April 30th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Why would anyone pay CSOL tuition? Because we can. Eat your heart out. The thought of driving to the concrete jungle was why many of us waited to attend CSOL. The school will get to where it needs to be for all you naysayers. Rome was not built in a day.
By Lame on April 30th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
#47
Does the CSOL administration issue talking points? I don’t under why everyone keeps say that Rome wasn’t built in a day. Orangeburg wasn’t built in a day either. No offense to people from Orangeburg.
By Arm Pit of the South on April 30th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
I have never seen a more a group of people w/ a bigger inferior complex than South Carolina fans/alumni/students. I guess it is not hard to imagine why when you are at the bottom of the SEC in academics (except for maybe MS State) and practically every sport you participate in (Ill give you baseball), and when you have to call Columbia home.
Well, congrats USC - you finally are better than another school at something - you have a better law school than CSOL. Generally, I wouldnt expect a school to flood message boards bragging about being better than a school that has existed 4 full school years, but when I think back to your history of inferiority and delusion, I am not surprised.
By itsMyProblemsNotYours on April 30th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
#42 - as stated, got in your fine institution. Chose not to go. Remember, law student = honor code = don’t lie about shit.
OOOhhh, here’s an idea, let’s find out what they used as entrance criteria or LSAT comparable scores were from, oh, when did USC get started? And compare them to some other school in the region and see how they did? What fun!
Oh, and to the person who said I was sassy? You bet. That’s what will make me hard for you to beat in court. You’ll never see me coming. LSAT ain’t everything. But I’ll stack mine against most USC student’s any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Again, though, my point is any law school can only offer the material - it is up to the student/bar exam taker to do their best.
By Hello. on April 30th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
How about you take a look at WHO was taking the BAR exam in Feb? It was almost all part-timers who graduated in 3.5 years or people who failed taking the BAR the 1st time. All law schools’ BAR passage rates on the SC BAR in Feb. were below average. Not to mention Charleston Law’s full time passage rate (since USC only has a full-time program, shouldn’t we compare apples to apples?) was around 80% on the previous BAR whereas USC’s was around 90%. What brought Charleston’s down so much was the terrible rate among part-time students who graduated in 3 years.
Obviously one can tell the agenda and have truths used in the original post, but an intelligent reader should look at the facts and decide for themselves. Obviously those who took the chance in going to a law school in its 1st year of conception probably didn’t have many options but the subsequent increases in Charleston Law’s incoming classes shows an increase in the quality of student. Moreover, 80% for a 1st year fulltime crop as opposed to 90% from USC’s fulltime crop (a law school that has been around for how long now?) shows the disparity is hardly what some may try to lead you to believe.
By JD19 on April 30th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
#36 EBD
Careful … you’re making way too much sense.
Yes, I am finishing at Charleston … didn’t get into Carolina … wish I had. However, I don’t think it would’ve mattered either way. I have good job lined up as result of my hard work and ability to network … not to mention my undeniable charm and good looks. Anyway, as you said, it’s not a golden ticket. Law school and finding a job thereafter is entirely up to the individual regardless of where you earn your JD … well, not entirely, but you get my point.
And you’re right about another thing … Charleston will be a good situation for some and I’m afraid a bad one for others. My question is, however, why do so many Carolina folks have such strong opinions about Charleston? Why do any of you give a shit if I blow $100,000 on law school. Charleston, right now, serves the same purpose as Cumberland, Campbell, Cooley, etc. Only now people have the option of staying closer to home.
Who knows what the future holds for Charleston, but in the meantime, Carolina folks should be more concerned about their declining status and finding a fucking job rather wasting their time hurling insults at the so-called morons in Charleston.
By I. Couldntgiveashit on April 30th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
WTF Fits? Was your mother raped by a CSOL grad or are you just pissed that you don’t get laid a lot? That’s about the childishness of your arguments. I hope that you fall down a flight of stairs and land ass first on an upside-down pineapple.
And by the way, I coming for your job. If you were a competent lawyer, you’d have better things to do than waste precious hours of your life by running a blog that is the intellectual equivalent of a toddler talking to his imaginary friend. Cover your incompetence by bashing all you want, the end result is your bitter ass will be a bigger joke than Bill Green.
Wishing you a happy night of rubbing one out while thinking about CSOL pass rates. I’m going out. Maybe upper King. Who knows, might get a little crazy and go to Market St.
By EBD on April 30th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
#52
I agree. USC students have no legitimate reason to be concerned with CSOL unless they find themselves in the bottom of the class and looking for a job in Charleston, which many likely are. Fact is, it just makes for interesting conversation. I am sure that if one day Lander starts a JD program, CSOL students will get their kicks putting them down. CSOL students already seem to look down their noses at these “night school” students. For better or worse, most lawyers are hyper-competitive people and feel the need to always measure themselves up against others.
While I am a strong proponent of the free market, I also believe a law school owes a duty to its students to adequately prepare them for the practice of law, and in some cases turn them away if they don’t have a legitimate chance at passing the bar. While it does seem that the full time program is probably on track, this night school program seems a bit seedy. Considering their dismally low bar pass rate and likely equally dismal job placement, It appears that CSOL is just using them to pad its revenue. Of course these students have a chance to succeed, but that chance is much slimmer than the full time student, and even slimmer still when compared to USC students. So it is really just a matter of line drawing and that is where the focus should be.
By 1L on April 30th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Hey, it’s me again. Yeah, you’re right. I thought 137 was really high. It’s not an A+? My bad. Anyway, shouldn’t I be studying for exams? Maybe. So all I am saying is that we’re not all - categorically - idiots at CSOL. True, the first few classes were - and subsequent classes will continue to be for a few more - less than ideal; you can visit our local web board to realize that. I mean, some real ignorance. But that’s why we’re in school, right? I mean, this is SC. Shouldn’t we applaud anyone continuing his or her education? As for thanking the founders: we are using the school for an education and they, in turn, are using us for second and third homes. I can deal with that so long as they do what’s needed to protect their investment (namely, keeping the students happy and the school thriving). The problem, in my opinion, is not that CSOL will turn out a bunch of inept lawyers (which, if true, wouldn’t affect USC grads much at all); it’s that there will be a larger number of people fighting for the same jobs. And, you know, stupid might also be paying 30k for a law degree. So maybe I’m just three times as stupid. I’ll take that, I guess. Oh, I did have a job here before I started school - and I continue to work sporadically - so it actually worked out mathematically. Yes, I can do math AND rhyme. Seriously, though, I chose CSOL because I didn’t really think it mattered - and neither did my friends who graduated from USC’s law school. Turns out, in addition to being a math wizard and really-hot-and-sexy-like, I might also be a prophet. Take a number, people! By the way, love the site! Keep up the great work and scrupulous editing.
By 1L on April 30th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
#27 . . .
“to” does not equal “too”
Just a little math lesson from a really hot, ghetto-fabulous math wizard.
By Not the LSAT Argument again on April 30th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Why does the “CSOL has a crappy LSAT average” argument keep coming up? Nothing could be further from the truth. Assuming post #25 above is correct (that said CSOL’s 152 is in the 55th percentile nationally) that is a GOOD thing. That means CSOL already has higher admissions scores than half the law schools in the country - as a BRAND NEW school. Since the current median is actually more at about 155, they are likely higher than the 55th percentile. No, it is not as high as USC’s, but it by no means suggests that they are taking sub-par students. Their first shot ever at the bar exam yielded a 70% pass rate. Again - how exactly does this suggest they are taking sub-par students? Have you seen the bar pass rates for other states, much less brand new schools?
Perhaps the most laughable part of “the LSAT criticism” is: You realize don’t you that CSOL’s current LSAT numbers are exactly where USC’s were about 5 years ago. To say that sub-155 LSAT numbers will not produce qualified law students or future lawyers basically trashes and insults every USC law student who graduated prior to about 2003.
By USC Law Student on April 30th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I go to USC Law and all I know is that I hate CSoL! Most people here would agree and I hope we do not end up working together in the future! Our education, professors, facilities, and overall school is so much better. I hear CSoL doesn’t even use the Socratic. hmmm
And as for the professors and deans that left– we did not want them anyway! Have fun!
By Question on May 1st, 2008 at 12:00 am
If CS of L does not like the part time program, why do they not just get rid of it? Or reduce the class size? If the part time students are the ones causing all the problems, doesn’t it make sense to get rid of them?
Also, I noticed that the requirements to get into the part time program were much lower than the full time progam. Other schols that have part time programs have the same entrance requirements as the full time program.
What do the full time CS of L students think about the part time program? Why doesn’t USC Law have a part time program? Was/Are there any plans for USC Law to have one?
By mydingaling on May 1st, 2008 at 7:15 am
#48 — funnnnny stuff.
#49 — lawyers have an honor code?
By mydingaling on May 1st, 2008 at 7:16 am
oops #50
i ought to proof-read.
By Salty Mike on May 1st, 2008 at 7:33 am
DUAH!!!
Why would any proponent of USC open their mouth on here?!?
I could have cared less, but now I was motivated to look up LSAT, etc. scores.
What did I find? Holy S**T, USC’s only at a 157?!? How many decades, no centuries have yall been the only school in South Carolina??? That says a lot about S.C….(in a bad way) Even Georgia State, a 5k/year downtown Atlanta school is at a 162 or so by now….
So, lets talk price…Out of state USC, what I would have to do- 19,20k/year as compared to 25,26k per year- hmmmm, once again not many brainchildren on here apparently…The CSOL ‘rich kids’ could ask their mom for 5 dollars a week allowance and make up that difference- Im done…
Wait- one more thing! Obviously the first class of any new school is going to be, well, overeager to go there and get a fancy new degree…CSOL’s first class was statistically the worst class that will graduate from the school- of course their LSATs are going to be even lower than USC’s! But, it’ll be like anything else, when the scores are even and higher in the next few years- USC kids will sit in those crumbling public buildings and know that the CSOL kids are scoring higher and enjoying Thirsty Thursdays at the Riverdogs & 2 for 1 bourbons as Salty Mikes!
By No Dog in this Fight on May 1st, 2008 at 7:51 am
I am a lawyer in SC and didn’t go to USC or CSOL, so I’ve got no real dog in this fight, but this is how I see it: This feud is absolutely ridiculous. It seems to me that CSOL students are not trying to make the argument that their statistics are as good as USC. CSOL students went there for their own reason–either because they admittedly couldn’t get in to USC, got a scholarship, didn’t want to go to USC, or because they wanted to practice law in Charleston and felt CSOL was a good call. I’m sure many of CSOL’s students continue to feel they made the right decision, while others probably regret it. I’m also sure that you could find plenty of USC law students who end up regretting their decision for one reason or another. They don’t exactly have the most enthusiastic alumni network. Anyway, my point is that it seems to me that CSOL isn’t trying to make the argument that statistically they are as good as USC. They are simply doing their own thing and present a private school alternative to USC law. I don’t see USC and Clemson undergrad insulting Wofford, Furman, and PC for being private school alternatives. More education in SC is a good thing and no one in SC should be insulted for continuing their education.
By JD19 on May 1st, 2008 at 8:03 am
EBD & #59 -
One person’s opinion …
Get rid of the night program. I think it presents a huge image problem. Tech schools have night programs, and, unfortunately, I think many put Charleston in the same category.
As for #58 …
You’ve got some major insecurities that you need to work on. Hate is a pretty strong word for a supposedly inferior class of people. And besides, I wouldn’t worry about working with anyone from Charleston … the level of maturity in your comments indicates that you’re going to have plenty of problems finding work for yourself.
By Connor Peterson on May 1st, 2008 at 8:08 am
@ itsMyProblemsNotYours
The fact I could tell you’re female from your post does not bode well. Shrill, emotional lawyers are generally not very effective.
By Mens Rea on May 1st, 2008 at 8:51 am
Lawyers fighting on the internet is an outstanding source of entertainment. Listserv, holla!
We are all just math-illiterate frauds trying to keep the shaking in our voices from being audible and not say “uh….” Dramatic pause, anyone?
The numbers barely work out for people who get into USC, and they are crushingly bad for those who go to private school. Still, any lawyer who hangs in there usually ends up doing pretty well at something, and that debt will start coming down in 15 years or so. 40’s not that old, you can still enjoy that jet-ski you always wanted.
CSOL is a private school, with all the attendent negatives, but it did not invent private school. Its students, if they wanted to be lawyers bad enough, would have gone to FCSL, Cooley, or what have you. They still would have come here to practice. CSOL is not significantly increasing the pool in SC, in my uninformed opinion.
By cgi-bin laden on May 1st, 2008 at 9:16 am
Law students in general need to realize that they are, regardless of school, getting ripped off. If you’re in law school and are coming out with more than 60K in student loan debt, you’ve been duped.
CSoL students make especially good targets for criticism b/c they’re going to carry so much debt, and, by-in-large, they are so naïve they are tragically comical. I could also apply the same criticism to schools like Samford, but it’s too far away, and I don’t see their students strutting around town like the cock of the walk.
Also, don’t give me that crap about “oh, I’m going to make a difference, I’m not out to make money, blah, blah, blah”. When you get trout-slapped by the cold phallus of reality, you’re going to take the highest-paying job you can because you don’t like eating beans from a can for dinner.
The people that are getting rich in the legal profession are: expert witnesses, Kaplan, BarBri, and the banks. An analogous situation would be the 1849 gold rush - prospectors rarely struck it big, but the merchants that sold supplies to the prospectors became rich.
I believe it’s very telling (though anecdotal) that the vast majority of my friends are actively looking for ways to get out of the law, and my most successful friend from law school is a banker.
@JD19 - pretty sure #58 is a troll. Don’t waste your time.
By CSOL Student on May 1st, 2008 at 10:01 am
I attend CSOL and happen to be in the part-time evening program. I am an evening student for a reason…because I have a full-time job to pay my mortgage and support myself. Most of my fellow classmates have full-time jobs in law firms currently and have already established connections in the legal community for jobs after graduation. I have plenty of friends at USC Law and am thankful that we are all afforded an opportunity to get a law degree in a school in SC. I do not understand why it is necessary to harp on numbers when in reality an attorney’s career is not reflective of his or her performance solely on the bar exam. I am in law school to be a lawyer not to bicker. Best of luck to everyone!
By dry run on May 1st, 2008 at 10:45 am
As to comment # 59, next years part time size will be reduced while the full time’s will be increased.
By dry run on May 1st, 2008 at 11:10 am
Regarding bin laden, you must have a real eye for law students if you can pick em out of the crowd. Do you work for a tele-psychic or are you just full of shit?
By Makes no Sense on May 1st, 2008 at 11:49 am
It makes no sense to argue LSAT numbers anymore. If that’s all you’ve got to hang your hat on, you might want to rethink your assessment of the student body. The only thing separating the average USC law student from the average CSOL law student right now is 4 LSAT points. 4 points higher - what does that really mean? Absolutely nothing. No student/lawyer/admissons office,etc. can sit there with a straight face and tell me a 159 student is that much more qualified than a 155 student, especially when schools like USC were taking 155 students until just a few years ago. Yes, higher is better, but let’s be honest here - everyone who took that horrible test made educated guesses at half the questions, especially the logic games portion. A USC student getting 6-8 more answers correct than a CSOL student on a 125+ question test (in which probably 30-40 answers were educated guesses) means nothing more than the USC student got lucky and guessed better. And you can’t really say that you didn’t guess b/c if you actually knew most of the answers, you’d be going to Duke right now instead of USC.
By everyone on May 1st, 2008 at 11:50 am
I know this has already mentioned, but I just thought I’d chime in as well
I got into USC School of Law with a 1/2 tuition scholarship and yet chose to attend CSOL. Also, I doubt I’m the only one in this situation. So the allegations, that CSOL students are by virtue of the institution attend, inferior is laughable. For me, it was certainly a tough choice made easier by my geographical limitations, which I won’t go into at length. However, some of the people on this board need to come to a realization (and frankly, it stuns me to realize some of CSOL’s critics haven’t done even the most basic reasearch as to this issue):
It is beyond stupid to pin CSOL’s success as an institution based on the pass rates of the first graduating class. The Bar Exam, like other tests depends on large part on the quality of student taking it. This is not intended to demean any first year graduating students, but their LSAT range was 150-153, which is good for a first year school, but overall not that great. Why? Because highly qualified students oftentimes don’t want to take a risk on a school that may or may not gain accreditation. Not surprisingly, the second year’s admittees were 151-154, and 153-157 by the third year, which is approximately where we are now. Currently applications are up over 150% for next year’s admission. Expect the LSAT range to increase more, to where it is only slightly below that of USC. Now, back to my original point: USC, by contrast is perpetually in the 154-160 range. 150-153 will simply not compete with 154-160 no matter how you prepare them. If you want to judge the effectiveness of CSOL instruction, wait until the LSAT range is closer to that of USC. I guarantee, there will be slight increase in passage rate this upcoming year, a more significant increase the following year, and so on and so forth as the students that are accepted become more qualified. That’s the smart bet.
As an analogy: would any of you really be confident saying that Clemson has a much better coaching staff than, for example, Furman, just because Clemson has won that game 99% of the time in recent years? Or could it be that Clemson has better players?
While I know the 48k I’ll be in debt (my wife is putting me through school, and I have a scholarship) will hurt, it is kind of cool to be able to be one of the first brick’s in the wall and truly shape the destiny of a school. And by the way, I haven’t had any trouble getting summer jobs.
By Cornholed on May 1st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Whoever was saying that the 55th percentile nationally is actually good is retarded. That is the 55th percentile of everyone who took the LSAT, the vast majority of these people never go to law school (thankfully). Of course with CSOLs popping up everywhere, pretty soon everyone will get a crack at it, even if there is only a 48% chance that they would even be able to practice!
As to this “part time” crap. USC already does have a “part time” program, it’s called CSOL! For any suckers who are interested, you can pay me 100k (certified check only please) and I will give you a piece of paper that says “JD” smudged in feces. Take this to Toal and tell her that you are “connected”, and she will let you pass the bar. Of course you will probably never find a job, but maybe you could work for Westlaw or be librarian or something.
By J. Wright on May 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
@72
More like a brick in the sidewalk. I am guessing that you are probably full of sh*t about your half scholarship at USC (if you even got in). Furthermore, your thorough analysis leaves out the glaring fact that CSOL costs TWICE as much as USC! So basically for your fantasy projection to come true, students would have to value Charleston SO much that they are willing to pay an extra 50k for it.
By TerrierNation on May 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
In case you’re keeping score…Wofford and Furman are 1000x better than USC. There, I feel better.
P.S. Your mascot is a ‘cock’…and so are you.
By What really matters? Soon to be USC Law Grad on May 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
You could (and have) argue about who has the largest dick by comparing LSAT scores all day. Fact is, that does not matter.
While the LSAT is a good predictor of how well a student may do in law school, there is NO correlation between the LSAT and the quality of attorney.
# 39, here are the employment numbers from the USC class of 2006 (the most updated numbers). This chart looks at USC grads who entered into private practice. I am leaving out some categories for simplicity sake (such as government jobs).
# Grads Size of firm Avg. salary
3 Solo practice ?
47 2-10 lawyers $52,568
10 11-25 $63,333
14 26-50 $73,577
11 51-100 $71,050
11 100-250 $84,091
14 251 + $104,642
1 Unknown ?
The average (with all numbers included) = $69,915
Fact is, most USC grads work in small firms after graduation. Soon they will be competing with CSOL grads for the same jobs. I would not be surprised if the influx of newly graduated attorneys would have a negative effect on these numbers.
Although, as a 3L at USC, this chart depresses me, I would be very surprised if CSOL #’s are this high.
I have no doubt that CSOL will soon compete for the same caliber student. Is that such a bad thing? Competition should make both of these schools better. Something USC needs after having a monopoly for such a long time.
A copy of this full chart can be found a USC Career Services (Now there is the real joke).
By constitutiongirl on May 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Touche’ #75. If my child even thinks of going to USC he’ll pay his own way. Plenty of us have just gone to law school for the fun of it! What do you do with your spare time?
By CL on May 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
71,
The difference between 159 and 155 is about 14 or15 points when you convert to percentiles. That is certainly a big deal. It becomes an even bigger disparity when you reject the artificial distinction between full and part time students that Charleston uses to inflate its numbers. They are all students admitted to CSOL who pay tuition, yet CSOL separately reports so the part timers don’t drag down their numbers. A few years ago, USC had to increase enrollment about 10% due to budget cuts. Can USC isolate those extra students so they don’t bring down its overall numbers?
By Another try for the salary chart of USC Law grads class of '06 on May 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm
# Grads…….Size of firm………Avg. salary
–3 ………. Solo practice…………. ?
–47………..2-10 lawyers……….$52,568
–10………..11-25………………$63,333
–14………..26-50………………$73,577
–11………..51-100……………..$71,050
–11………..100-250…………….$84,091
–14..……….251 +………………$104,642
–1…………Unknown…………………?
By Are USC students poor? on May 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
#74 and the rest of the USC student body, who are bitter that they attend a school with a shitty staff who couldnt go anywhere else and a building that is falling down, all you seem to constantly point to is the price well lets examine that. USC is a public institution and since they are they get funding from the state which allows for a lower tuition. Since USC was successful in blocking CSOL from gaining any such funding then there was a need to make the cost around 25k for tutition. The reason that the loans are more is because Charleston has a higher cost of living, big surprise there. But no matter how you look at the price just because you are too poor to pay the price and others can why do you seem to hold that against them. I think this whole message board has shown that people at USC are just a little insecure. As pointed out earlier, why do USC people seem to hate CSOL so much if USC is so superior? Could it be that even USC people dont believe the shit that they are being spoon fed by their 5th dean in 4 years? Who knows but I will say that if USC continues the trend of flat line LSAT numbers and CSOLs continue to go up then eventually they really will have nothing left to try and act superior over. USC sucks for undergrad (seeing as how all you have to do is have a pulse to get in as illustrated by Will Folks getting in), and is continuously slipping for grad school.
By Unbelievable on May 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Its amazing the lack of support we are getting from our own State, our own media, and our own legal community. In 4 short years, we have put together a legal program that is heads above many other law schools around the country, many of which have been accredited and in existence for a very long time. We have built an excellent faculty base and have invested a significant amount of money to build one of the most advanced and comprehensive electronic legal libraries in the country. Our Moot Court teams have far exceeded anyone’s expectations at many national competitions and our law journals - which we had to start from scratch with no help or guidance from upperclassman - have published many articles from nationally renown judges, attorneys, and legal scholars. Our school managed to secure a specialty federal courts law review, which is published exclusively at CSOL, despite heavy competition from many 1st and 2nd tier law schools to obtain the rights to publish this journal when it was formulated (thanks to financial flexibility of being a private school). Our school has contributed over 12 THOUSAND hours of pro bono work, helping the poor, the homeless, the abused, children in need, and many others. In the past year we’ve had several nationally reknown members of the legal field speak at our school, including Chief Justice John Roberts, and Arthur Miller. Our calibur of students, from an admissions statistics standpoint, is right on par with mid to upper 3rd tier law schools - a very good starting point. Most importantly, our first attempt at ever taking the bar exam resulted in a 70% pass rate. It is absolutely inconceivable how anyone could interpret this as a “failure” or a “dumb choice” for a place to attend law school. No, it may not be as good of a school right now as USC, but USC is not the measuring stick for law school success.
Everywhere our student organizations go outside of South Carolina and every outside professor, judge, and attorney that visits us here and interacts with our students is overwhelmingly supportive, encouraging, and impressed with how far we’ve come in such a short time. They are truly shocked when they learn that we’ve only been open for 4 years. Yet, for whatever reason, our own home state, our own media, and own legal community (primarily in Columbia) takes every opportunity to taunt, degrade, insult us as much as possible. Instead of trying to actually improve legal education in South Carolina, they do everything they can prevent progess. Do you really want USC to keep their monopoly on legal education? Look where that has gotten you in the past. You are dangerously close to dropping into the 3rd tier in the law school rankings, maybe a year or two away, and a little competition from CSOL is the only thing that is going to keep that from happening. So how about actually giving us a hand for once, instead of a push. Try looking at all the good things we have accomplished and our potential for the future, because what is good for our school, is ultimately good for your school.
Or, maybe you really just don’t care about your school. I guess that would explain the severe lack of alumni support.
By Is Jake's closed this week? on May 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
I applied to USC and Charleston. My LSAT and G.P.A.. were in line with the averages at USC, but I didn’t get in and decided to go to CSOL. There are others at Charleston that got in to USC and came here anyway. Either way, I’m not bitter. I love it in Charleston and feel that I am getting a great education.
I don’t understand why USC has the bitterness towards CSOL. I mean you’re obviously at a school you’re proud of, so why does it matter what CSOL does? Most of you probably applied to Emory or Chapel Hill and didn’t get in there, but I don’t see their students starting a blog to talk shit to you.
Either way, the big brother act needs to stop. Pretty soon little brothers gonna be all grown up and punching back.
The hundred plus year head start might not have been enough my friends.
By Who friggin Cares? on May 1st, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Really, who cares? Frankly, I find a bunch of lawyers and potential lawyers having a piss-off over which school is mediocre and which school is lousy pretty sad. At the end of the day all of you lose: You’re going to be lawyers - and more than likely, lawyers in SC. One life to live and you decide to be a lawyer. Sad.
In any event, I have to gave my nod to the CSOL kids. Hey, at least it’s a new school. What’s USC’s excuse for being so mediocre?
By J. Wright on May 1st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
#81
Not mention that you can listen to the Blue Dogs at the Music Farm while you look at the pictures in your law books. That is awesome.
By Paladin on May 1st, 2008 at 9:00 pm
@75:
Trying to equate your 4th-class college (that is only ‘elite’ because of its price tag) shows how dumb you really are. Wofford is easily behind South Carolina and Clemson (both of which trail Furman) in terms of quality of students. Wofford’s biggest asset is its small student body, which skews the numbers. The fact is, most Wofford grads are people too stupid to get into Furman, and too snotty to go to Clemson or South Carolina. In the future, please don’t associate your shitty school with my nationally-renowned alma mater. Thanks.
By Tired of hearing it! on May 1st, 2008 at 10:04 pm
I am so tired of hearing USC bash CSoL! I am so sick and tired of it! Do you not have anything else to do, like work?!? You are all acting like little children, little spoiled children. Someone new came to play on the playground and now you’re whining about it! Why don’t you just get over yourself and accept the fact that USC Lawschool has competition. The Charleston School of Law is here and it is here to stay. So what CSoL didn’t have a higher passage rate than USC - please be realistic. USC has been around for um-teen years while CSoL has only been around for all of four years and it still making its mark on the legal community.
Just stop complaining, whining, belittling, and whatever else you need to do to make yourself feel better and get over it. Try praying for peace within, that usually works for me.
By Spaulding on May 1st, 2008 at 10:36 pm
#74, 76, & 78 -
Go fuck yourselves. You guys obviously have it all figured out. Please do tell us of the great jobs do you have lined up? Your animosity toward private school kids is typical of the bitter lower middle class. Why do you give a shit about how much we paid for school … seriously? I’m so sick of the cost of tution argument … get over it. I paid for Wofford and it is paying off in spades as compared to shitty Carolina. Besides, my trust fund runs deep, so you could go to fucking Yale and still be sniffing my ass when all is said and done.
The bottom line is that Charleston does a pretty damn good job of promoting its students and providing job pipelines for them. Carolina seems to leave you fending for yourself. Meanwhile, many of the state’s best lawyers and judges have decided to take an active r