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	<title>Comments on: Burnt Orange</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/</link>
	<description>Unfair ... Imbalanced</description>
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		<title>By: Common Sense On Higher Ed &#124; FITSNews For Now</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-34871</link>
		<dc:creator>Common Sense On Higher Ed &#124; FITSNews For Now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-34871</guid>
		<description>[...] jacking tuition on our state&#8217;s citizens in recent years, particularly while they&#8217;re hiding multi-million dollar slush funds (in Clemson&#8217;s case) or gobbling up real estate like the Wehrmacht (in Carolina&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] jacking tuition on our state&#8217;s citizens in recent years, particularly while they&#8217;re hiding multi-million dollar slush funds (in Clemson&#8217;s case) or gobbling up real estate like the Wehrmacht (in Carolina&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: old bike dude</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14327</link>
		<dc:creator>old bike dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14327</guid>
		<description>This top lobbyist you speak of, her name wasn&#039;t Kristen was it. Cause..you know..if it was ...it would mean a pay cut for essentially doing the same thing she was doing for Spitzer, just that she would now be doing it to every parent of every student at dear old Clemson. jus sayin&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This top lobbyist you speak of, her name wasn&#8217;t Kristen was it. Cause..you know..if it was &#8230;it would mean a pay cut for essentially doing the same thing she was doing for Spitzer, just that she would now be doing it to every parent of every student at dear old Clemson. jus sayin&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: CL</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14301</link>
		<dc:creator>CL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14301</guid>
		<description>#24,

You keep erecting straw men in this exchange.  I have not argued that it was the right decision to give her 100% of both salaries.  I tend to agree there should be some savings there from combining the two.  I have pointed out that she received a significant promotion that led to the higher salary, making it dishonest to suggest that she received a $100,000 &quot;raise.&quot;  

And for your information, the lobbyist does report directly to President Barker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24,</p>
<p>You keep erecting straw men in this exchange.  I have not argued that it was the right decision to give her 100% of both salaries.  I tend to agree there should be some savings there from combining the two.  I have pointed out that she received a significant promotion that led to the higher salary, making it dishonest to suggest that she received a $100,000 &#8220;raise.&#8221;  </p>
<p>And for your information, the lobbyist does report directly to President Barker.</p>
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		<title>By: ricebird</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14298</link>
		<dc:creator>ricebird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14298</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s just hope it gets to trial, a complete investigation is done and Clemson is held accountable -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s just hope it gets to trial, a complete investigation is done and Clemson is held accountable -</p>
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		<title>By: aspecialtiger</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14297</link>
		<dc:creator>aspecialtiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14297</guid>
		<description>#21 CL -  Sport, don&#039;t get completely out of reason in your thinking - first, the Lady makes $180K a year - not $80K  - the next is if you want to believe that the way you operate in a Business when you decide to combine two jobs is to simply add the salaries and give them both -it&#039;s ludicrous - if the jobs were real, that is not a possible mixture - now, if you say, well we set a 2 jobs that should take 1/2 person - but, we&#039;ll pay a full salary for each - hey, one is causing trouble - wants to complain - we&#039;ll just run off - give all of his duties to a person who is already a &quot;fully employed&quot; individual - and then, to make it right, we&#039;ll just add the two salaries together and try to make everybody believe that this is some kinda normal way of doing business - Next, I qualified my statement on the $10K increase by saying that it is a very, very unusual amount for the folks - not reporting directly to Barker or one of the special circle.

I honestly don&#039;t know what a Lobbyist should be paid to work for Clemson University - $80K $90K may be a very good salary - just don&#039;t tell me we just added another full time job to her duties, double her salary and expect everyone to think this is just normal actions - that&#039; unbelievable - increase of $10K over 6 years on a legitimate $80K - Ok about the State average - $ 180K from $80K under the story of adding a &quot;complete&quot; additional job to her duties - well, my questions remain - but, I will also stand by my statement that $10K increase in salary over the past 6 years - is extremely unusual at Clemson - again, unless you report to Barker or you are a see nothing, say nothing, hear nothing - accepted to follow with no questions part of the &quot;club&quot; -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21 CL &#8211;  Sport, don&#8217;t get completely out of reason in your thinking &#8211; first, the Lady makes $180K a year &#8211; not $80K  &#8211; the next is if you want to believe that the way you operate in a Business when you decide to combine two jobs is to simply add the salaries and give them both -it&#8217;s ludicrous &#8211; if the jobs were real, that is not a possible mixture &#8211; now, if you say, well we set a 2 jobs that should take 1/2 person &#8211; but, we&#8217;ll pay a full salary for each &#8211; hey, one is causing trouble &#8211; wants to complain &#8211; we&#8217;ll just run off &#8211; give all of his duties to a person who is already a &#8220;fully employed&#8221; individual &#8211; and then, to make it right, we&#8217;ll just add the two salaries together and try to make everybody believe that this is some kinda normal way of doing business &#8211; Next, I qualified my statement on the $10K increase by saying that it is a very, very unusual amount for the folks &#8211; not reporting directly to Barker or one of the special circle.</p>
<p>I honestly don&#8217;t know what a Lobbyist should be paid to work for Clemson University &#8211; $80K $90K may be a very good salary &#8211; just don&#8217;t tell me we just added another full time job to her duties, double her salary and expect everyone to think this is just normal actions &#8211; that&#8217; unbelievable &#8211; increase of $10K over 6 years on a legitimate $80K &#8211; Ok about the State average &#8211; $ 180K from $80K under the story of adding a &#8220;complete&#8221; additional job to her duties &#8211; well, my questions remain &#8211; but, I will also stand by my statement that $10K increase in salary over the past 6 years &#8211; is extremely unusual at Clemson &#8211; again, unless you report to Barker or you are a see nothing, say nothing, hear nothing &#8211; accepted to follow with no questions part of the &#8220;club&#8221; -</p>
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		<title>By: CL</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14286</link>
		<dc:creator>CL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14286</guid>
		<description>#21

 I do know the base.  It is $80,000.  How do I know that? It was in the article.  What we don&#039;t know for sure is the current salary just for her lobbying position.  As I noted earlier, it was poster #8 that assumed that the current salary for the lobbyist position is  $90,000 (one half $180,000), and I pointed out the flaw in his assumption.  If you have a problem with his math, take it up with the source.  

You are moving the goal posts by trying to back the salary down to $35,000 to justify your silly statements about the increase.  From her original salary of $80,000 to $90,000, it averages out to less than 2.5 % per year, which is not unusual.  Whether you think lobbyists should be making $80,000 is irrelevant to whether the pay increase she received over 6 years was &quot;odd.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21</p>
<p> I do know the base.  It is $80,000.  How do I know that? It was in the article.  What we don&#8217;t know for sure is the current salary just for her lobbying position.  As I noted earlier, it was poster #8 that assumed that the current salary for the lobbyist position is  $90,000 (one half $180,000), and I pointed out the flaw in his assumption.  If you have a problem with his math, take it up with the source.  </p>
<p>You are moving the goal posts by trying to back the salary down to $35,000 to justify your silly statements about the increase.  From her original salary of $80,000 to $90,000, it averages out to less than 2.5 % per year, which is not unusual.  Whether you think lobbyists should be making $80,000 is irrelevant to whether the pay increase she received over 6 years was &#8220;odd.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: marion</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14259</link>
		<dc:creator>marion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14259</guid>
		<description>Just catching up with this conversation this morning, some of you guys from Clemson and So Carolina seem to be naive to the inner workings at your respective schools. Things are not a beautiful shade of garnet or orange - there are some ugly stains - some will be exposed, some will stay hidden but, at least this will cause discussions and those that are interested may make the effort to really see the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just catching up with this conversation this morning, some of you guys from Clemson and So Carolina seem to be naive to the inner workings at your respective schools. Things are not a beautiful shade of garnet or orange &#8211; there are some ugly stains &#8211; some will be exposed, some will stay hidden but, at least this will cause discussions and those that are interested may make the effort to really see the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: aspecialtiger</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14257</link>
		<dc:creator>aspecialtiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14257</guid>
		<description>#19 - C&#039;mon - talk about something that you have facts to back up your very garnet tainted opinion. Players have the same academic problems as regular students - except held to higher standards - those that were deserving were declared ineligible were done so with a fair and even  hand.  You know absolutely nothing of the punishment that will be dealt if the LB is convicted.  But, you can rest assured that it will be fair and equal not based on his skill level on the football field as has maneuvered the scales of justice at the U of South Carolina. And, who is to say that being accused of DUI is more serious than being found drunk, fighting, trying to evade Police, possession of drugs - each has the potential of being disastrous but, the facts of each occurance will ultimately say if it is more serious than any other - The National Championship was won on the Football field - allegations of misdeeds were dealt with and probation was served - even then, you know the NCAA were searching for a poster child to quell the cheating going on throughout the world of College Athletics.  U of So Car  Basketball coach when asked &quot;how do you know when a Program is cheating?&quot;  answered &quot;when you see them winning&quot; - Yes, I wish it had never happened - I do know that, in those days, to compete, you had to play the same game as everyone else.  - Now, the female athlete that was pregnant and had an abortion - if it was coerced or even suggested by a Coach, is a heart wrenching story - on the other hand, scholoarships are not given over the total years in school - the coaches did not assist in &quot;getting pregnant&quot;  - pregnancy makes competing in the athletic event &quot;not advisable&quot; - We really have to do a lot of mind reading and guessing to say what the real story was -  Right now, proper action has been taken - Yes, I am proud of the environment in Clemson Athletics, the discipline enforced by the management of the program, the humanity shown in their actions and the overall success - Under the guidance of Coach Tommy Bowden, Clemson has done things in the right way, with the right people, taken the right actions and has never had an issue to be ashamed of - especially if that is as compared to other Universities.      NOW #13 CL - How do you calculate what is 2% - 3% - 1% - of something that you do not even know the base that you are working with?  I was not speaking of Professors, VP, Asso VP, Directors - I am speaking of the people in jobs that do not carry the fancy title, working hard and productively during their full 8+ hours, dedicated, protecting their insurance  - now, get back to something that you know - start at a base of $35K - $36K per year - and, NO, that is not an unusual salary for postions in the University System (at least at Clemson) - work your math - $10K increases are not there through the SC Performance and COL - or, at least those that have not had the privilege of special consideration by the President, his Direct Reports and their special group of &quot;friends&quot;evaluating the job(s) - they are normal, in the system jobs that have been in place for - in some cases - many years - the incumbents - in most cases - are extremely competent, hard working, dedicated people - with performance both shown as very good and rated at &quot;S&quot; Substantially excedes expectations - which is the highest performance rating in the State System -</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19 &#8211; C&#8217;mon &#8211; talk about something that you have facts to back up your very garnet tainted opinion. Players have the same academic problems as regular students &#8211; except held to higher standards &#8211; those that were deserving were declared ineligible were done so with a fair and even  hand.  You know absolutely nothing of the punishment that will be dealt if the LB is convicted.  But, you can rest assured that it will be fair and equal not based on his skill level on the football field as has maneuvered the scales of justice at the U of South Carolina. And, who is to say that being accused of DUI is more serious than being found drunk, fighting, trying to evade Police, possession of drugs &#8211; each has the potential of being disastrous but, the facts of each occurance will ultimately say if it is more serious than any other &#8211; The National Championship was won on the Football field &#8211; allegations of misdeeds were dealt with and probation was served &#8211; even then, you know the NCAA were searching for a poster child to quell the cheating going on throughout the world of College Athletics.  U of So Car  Basketball coach when asked &#8220;how do you know when a Program is cheating?&#8221;  answered &#8220;when you see them winning&#8221; &#8211; Yes, I wish it had never happened &#8211; I do know that, in those days, to compete, you had to play the same game as everyone else.  &#8211; Now, the female athlete that was pregnant and had an abortion &#8211; if it was coerced or even suggested by a Coach, is a heart wrenching story &#8211; on the other hand, scholoarships are not given over the total years in school &#8211; the coaches did not assist in &#8220;getting pregnant&#8221;  &#8211; pregnancy makes competing in the athletic event &#8220;not advisable&#8221; &#8211; We really have to do a lot of mind reading and guessing to say what the real story was &#8211;  Right now, proper action has been taken &#8211; Yes, I am proud of the environment in Clemson Athletics, the discipline enforced by the management of the program, the humanity shown in their actions and the overall success &#8211; Under the guidance of Coach Tommy Bowden, Clemson has done things in the right way, with the right people, taken the right actions and has never had an issue to be ashamed of &#8211; especially if that is as compared to other Universities.      NOW #13 CL &#8211; How do you calculate what is 2% &#8211; 3% &#8211; 1% &#8211; of something that you do not even know the base that you are working with?  I was not speaking of Professors, VP, Asso VP, Directors &#8211; I am speaking of the people in jobs that do not carry the fancy title, working hard and productively during their full 8+ hours, dedicated, protecting their insurance  &#8211; now, get back to something that you know &#8211; start at a base of $35K &#8211; $36K per year &#8211; and, NO, that is not an unusual salary for postions in the University System (at least at Clemson) &#8211; work your math &#8211; $10K increases are not there through the SC Performance and COL &#8211; or, at least those that have not had the privilege of special consideration by the President, his Direct Reports and their special group of &#8220;friends&#8221;evaluating the job(s) &#8211; they are normal, in the system jobs that have been in place for &#8211; in some cases &#8211; many years &#8211; the incumbents &#8211; in most cases &#8211; are extremely competent, hard working, dedicated people &#8211; with performance both shown as very good and rated at &#8220;S&#8221; Substantially excedes expectations &#8211; which is the highest performance rating in the State System -</p>
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		<title>By: CL</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14219</link>
		<dc:creator>CL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14219</guid>
		<description>#13

$10k over 6 years is just a little over 2% a year for 6 years.  I know many governmental employees are eligble for up to a 2.5% raise based upon performance per year plus any COL adjustments.  Again, if this seems odd to you, maybe you should evaluate your job and your performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13</p>
<p>$10k over 6 years is just a little over 2% a year for 6 years.  I know many governmental employees are eligble for up to a 2.5% raise based upon performance per year plus any COL adjustments.  Again, if this seems odd to you, maybe you should evaluate your job and your performance.</p>
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		<title>By: somethingrottenintatertown</title>
		<link>http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-14166</link>
		<dc:creator>somethingrottenintatertown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fitsnews.com/2008/03/16/burnt-orange/#comment-14166</guid>
		<description>aspecialtiger,

Are you proud of the football players who flunked out of school last year and had to be declared academically ineligible for your bowl game? Are you proud that the Rev. Tammy Bowdown basically has done nothing to punish a player who was arrested for DUI (a more serious offense than any alleged to have been committed by USC players in the time since)? Are you proud that female athletes at Clemson who got pregnant while on athletic scholarship were pressured by coaches to have abortions or face the possible loss of their scholarships? Finally, are you proud of that tainted National Championship in football that Clemson bought and paid for in 1981? Yeah, real fine athletic program y&#039;all are running up there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aspecialtiger,</p>
<p>Are you proud of the football players who flunked out of school last year and had to be declared academically ineligible for your bowl game? Are you proud that the Rev. Tammy Bowdown basically has done nothing to punish a player who was arrested for DUI (a more serious offense than any alleged to have been committed by USC players in the time since)? Are you proud that female athletes at Clemson who got pregnant while on athletic scholarship were pressured by coaches to have abortions or face the possible loss of their scholarships? Finally, are you proud of that tainted National Championship in football that Clemson bought and paid for in 1981? Yeah, real fine athletic program y&#8217;all are running up there.</p>
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